MI-Remember that man shot 46 times by cops? New video shows he was walking away.

[Anti Federalist]

Video is at the site.

I can not watch videos where I am right now, but I imagine it is a video of a murder.


Police Shoot Michigan Man 46 Times, Saying He Had a Knife

http://guardianlv.com/2012/12/police-shoot-michigan-man-46-times-saying-he-had-a-knife-cnn-video/

15 December 2012

CNN today released an amateur video of a police confrontation with a man in Saginaw Michigan that happened last July 1.

http://guardianlv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/milton-hall-murder.jpg

In this very graphic amateur video, police from Saginaw, Michigan are seen confronting Milton Hall, a supposedly mentally disturbed man, who had just had a confrontation with the convenience store clerk, and appeared to be wielding a knife. In the video you can hear them talking back and forth, as the police try to diffuse the situation.

You can clearly hear a woman police officer saying, “put the knife down.”

At one point the police threaten to release a dog on Milton, which does not appear to affect him in the least, and when he turns and walks to his right the police opened fire on him.

More than 46 shots were fired by six policemen, at a man who appears to be walking in the other direction, away from the situation.

Friends and relatives of the victim want to know why the investigation has taken so long, and demonstrations at the police department have indicated that more than a few people are upset.

CNN had previously purchased this amateur home video, and is only releasing it today. CNN’s Jason Carroll is reporting.

The video is embedded here, and I have to warn you, viewer discretion is advised, as this video is very disturbing to say the least.

[liberty2897]

Video is at the site.

I can not watch videos where I am right now, but I imagine it is a video of a murder.


Just watched it. He was walking away when the bullets started flying. There is no way any of those police were in danger. Definitely murder.

[TheTexan]

Yes, he was most certainly walking away from that situation. (Get the rope)

On a side note, I have that exact same knife. Cost 79 cents at Wal Marx

[phill4paul]

Nice, the second video in as many days showing L.E. murdering citizens.

[Brian4Liberty]

A few observations:

- That was a firing squad. No doubt about that. Circular force execution, where everyone shoots at the same time so that no single officer gets the blame.
- One officer empties his clip quite a few shots after the others stop firing.
- As the person with the camera says, the guy is in a fighting stance, with a knife.
- Camera angle and cops out of view: there were other officers much closer than the ones in the main frame. He turned towards them when they started firing. After the shots are fired, they get to the victim much faster than the others, indicating how much closer they were.

[Brian4Liberty]

Just watched it. He was walking away when the bullets started flying. There is no way any of those police were in danger. Definitely murder.


Yes, he was most certainly walking away from that situation. (Get the rope)


Actually, he turned towards officers who were closer, but out of the frame. After the shooting you will see them walk up to the victim first.

[HOLLYWOOD]

A presume the state government will say, "A Firing Squad cannot be charged with murder"

[TheTexan]

- Camera angle and cops out of view: there were other officers much closer than the ones in the main frame. He turned towards them when they started firing. After the shots are fired, they get to the victim much faster than the others, indicating how much closer they were.

That's not what I see.. when the red truck blocks the camera and the cameraman moves to a new position, all the cops in that frame I believe were in the original frame. Then a few frames later there are two cops that are walking up that were out of frame, but they seemed still quite far from the man's body. It's hard to tell, but it also looked like the man's direction he was walking wasn't towards those 2 cops that walked toward him from out of frame.

[TheTexan]

By the way, regarding "My name is Milton Hall! And I just called 9-1-1"...


apparently he didn't get the memo, re: never call the police

[2young2vote]

It didn't look like he was walking straight backwards. Looked like he was walking perpendicular to both sets of police. The place that the unseen police walk from is not the direction that he was walking towards. Anyways, he wouldn't have put up as much of an argument and the situation would have been defused a lot less violently if the police didn't have half a dozen guns pointed at him. Police need to take into account that forcing someone to do something can be humiliating and that will only cause that someone to refuse their orders, especially if they have some mental problems like this guy.

[Danke]

What ever happened to Mace or Tasers?

[kcchiefs6465]

They valued the life of their police dog more than the life of this man. Case closed.

[heavenlyboy34]

What ever happened to Mace or Tasers? Still part of the Circular Force Continuum, but they usually find an excuse to skip directly to deadly force now. :(

[TheTexan]

What ever happened to Mace or Tasers?

This is generally reserved for those in handcuffs

[jkr]

he had his whole LIFE in FRONT of him...tear

[LibertyEagle]

Why couldn't they have shot him in the leg to stop him, if they were so scared?

They chose to execute him instead.

[aGameOfThrones]

Over 10 more shots while he's on the ground dying. Yeah, that's murder!

[paulbot24]

It makes you wonder what all these trigger-happy cops would have done if the man has moved toward just one of them in particular. How many other cops would have been shot in their panic? That is what we were witnessing. Pure panic over a man weilding a ................knife.

[kcchiefs6465]

It makes you wonder what all these trigger-happy cops would have done if the man has moved toward just one of them in particular. How many other cops would have been shot in their panic?
There are few dog incidents you can look at for an example. I also believe the recent Cleveland firing squad had some friendly fire. (albeit to squad cars) It's quite obvious to see that they would not hesitate to cross fire. I definitely wouldn't want to be a cop with the level of trigger happiness that has been seen. You can look at the Empire State shooting as well. There was a crowd of people behind the gunman and the police still opened fire without hesitation. Virtually anything they do can will be justified. I'd advise anyone to try not to be anywhere around them willingly.

[AGRP]

I remember seeing this video a long time ago.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

There are few dog incidents you can look at for an example. I also believe the recent Cleveland firing squad had some friendly fire. (albeit to squad cars) It's quite obvious to see that they would not hesitate to cross fire.


Miami recently too, I think. It's like they have no concept of looking beyond the target. Just pull, pull, pull.

[kcchiefs6465]

I remember seeing this video a long time ago.
Same here, around 3 weeks to a month ago this video came out. There are still a lot of people who haven't seen it though so the refresh is definitely appreciated by me.

[Anti Federalist]

Miami recently too, I think. It's like they have no concept of looking beyond the target. Just pull, pull, pull.\

Greenland NH this spring.

[Anti Federalist]

Same here, around 3 weeks to a month ago this video came out. There are still a lot of people who haven't seen it though so the refresh is definitely appreciated by me.

Ugh, the site I saw it on was posting it today, calling it newly released.

[kcchiefs6465]

Miami recently too, I think. It's like they have no concept of looking beyond the target. Just pull, pull, pull.
I wouldn't want to be clearing a house with with them that's for sure. Link to the Miami story? I don't recall hearing about that one. I might have and it just got lost with all the other incidences. Thanks in advance.

[Henry Rogue]

yikes, executed for wielding a little pocket knife. That's just sad. I got a feeling the supposed Wild West was less dangerous than today.

[kcchiefs6465]

Ugh, the site I saw it on was posting it today, calling it newly released.
It is a fairly new video. I don't believe anything was posted about it here.

[pacelli]

What ever happened to Mace or Tasers?

Mace was outlawed because it caused allergic reactions including death.

Tasers were protested too much by the proles (e.g. "don't tase me bro".)

Proles rejected less-than-lethal methods, too much damned complaining.

So, now there is no other option but firing squad.

[Danke]

Mace was outlawed because it caused allergic reactions including death.

Tasers were protested too much by the proles (e.g. "don't tase me bro".)

Proles rejected less-than-lethal methods, too much damned complaining.

So, now there is no other option but firing squad.

Mace has been outlawed? News to me.

[kcchiefs6465]

Mace has been outlawed? News to me.
They just haven't informed the police and C.O.s yet. :rolleyes:

[kcchiefs6465]

Mace was outlawed because it caused allergic reactions including death.
Ok, I am going to break down the fallacies in each of your statements. Number one, mace is not outlawed. They still shoot pepper balls and mace people daily.

Tasers were protested too much by the proles (e.g. "don't tase me bro".)
I am not quite sure what a 'prole' is.. maybe police jargon? Either way, they weren't protesting the tasers until it became torturous punishment inflicted by power tripping cops and quite often became murderous. e.g. 'pleeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaseeeeee'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFH9kmKZX_o


Proles rejected less-than-lethal methods, too much damned complaining.
Yes, people often tend to complain when their rights are violated.

So, now there is no other option but firing squad.
And herein lies the peak of your absurdity. Yes, there are no other options but summarily executing people. That sounds like something a cop would say. So, with all due respect, get a real fuckin' job why don't you? You know, one not off of the backs of taxpayers.

ETA: Prole- 1. a member of the proletariat. 2. a person who performs routine tasks in a society

[aGameOfThrones]

Mace was outlawed because it caused allergic reactions including death.

Tasers were protested too much by the proles (e.g. "don't tase me bro".)

Proles rejected less-than-lethal methods, too much damned complaining.

So, now there is no other option but firing squad.

http://straightfromthea.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/garycoleman-wtf.gif

[pacelli]

Ok, I am going to break down the fallacies in each of your statements. Number one, mace is not outlawed. They still shoot pepper balls and mace people daily.

I am not quite sure what a 'prole' is.. maybe police jargon? Either way, they weren't protesting the tasers until it became torturous punishment inflicted by power tripping cops and quite often became murderous. e.g. 'pleeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaseeeeee'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFH9kmKZX_o


Yes, people often tend to complain when their rights are violated.

And herein lies the peak of your absurdity. Yes, there are no other options but summarily executing people. That sounds like something a cop would say. So, with all due respect, get a real fuckin' job why don't you? You know, one not off of the backs of taxpayers.

ETA: Prole- 1. a member of the proletariat. 2. a person who performs routine tasks in a society


http://straightfromthea.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/garycoleman-wtf.gif


Cool down fellas. Yes, my entire previous post is complete absurdity, I was being sarcastic and using the tone of 'big brother'. It tends to be a fairly popular response pattern around here. The word 'proles' was used in Orwell's 1984. I don't actually believe any of the shit that I typed in the above post. The enemy DOES believe that shit, this is the way the enemy thinks.

Regarding the recent string of police executions, I am angered beyond words. Yes, it should be a "wtf?" moment because the murderers in the video should be brought to justice. Things have gotten way out of control.

[heavenlyboy34]

yikes, executed for wielding a little pocket knife. That's just sad. I got a feeling the supposed Wild West was less dangerous than today.
It was.

[pacelli]

This is a picture taken in communist china. How much longer before this becomes commonplace in the United States?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EU1pq6GZ8ps/TGlU0AbllMI/AAAAAAAADE0/ExAOB6UejzU/s1600/china+execution.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

This is a picture taken in communist china. How much longer before this becomes commonplace in the United States?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EU1pq6GZ8ps/TGlU0AbllMI/AAAAAAAADE0/ExAOB6UejzU/s1600/china+execution.jpg

Respect and Obey Authority.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeQUlr4Xc3s

[pacelli]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

10-4.

http://userdisk.webry.biglobe.ne.jp/001/297/92/N000/000/005/124088267471616129441_abc_execution2_080215_ssh.jp g

http://www.friendsoftibet.org/main/images/tibet_execution_2.jpg

Folks, the end result with a Communist state is always the same: Mass executions.

[Lucille]

http://reason.com/blog/2014/10/29/video-8-cops-fire-45-shots-at-1-mentally


The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has released a disturbing video of a police shooting. It shows eight officers of the Saginaw, Michigan Police Department lined up against Milton Hall, a mentally ill homeless man. There's a brief stand-off in a vacant parking lot, in which Hall pulls out a pocketknife, then the law enforcement agents fire 45 bullets at Hall, hitting him 14 times, even as he drops to the pavement, but it doesn't end there.

"One policeman, after [Hall] was on the ground, turned him over, handcuffed him, and put his foot on his back," says Jewel Hall, the mother of the 45-year-old homeless man. "And his blood is running down the street like water."

According to the ACLU, Hall only pulled out the knife because "a police dog began snarling and lunging at" him.

One has to wonder why the eight officers did not see fit to disarm Hall in a non-lethal way.

The shooting took place in July of 2012, but the organization explains why it remains relevant to this day:


In March 2014, the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice (DoJ) declined to file federal charges against the Saginaw police officers who shot and killed Milton Hall because they claimed "this tragic event does not present sufficient evidence of willful misconduct to lead to a federal criminal prosecution." To prosecute the officers, it is necessary to prove not only that Hall's Fourth Amendment rights were violated by the use of excessive force, but also that the officers "willfully" set out to deprive him of those rights. …

The ACLU of Michigan testified that disagrees with the DOJ's decision not to prosecute, citing Supreme Court precedent indicating that an officer "recklessly disregarding" a person's rights can meet the "willfulness" standard regardless of the officer's frame of mind, calling for an expanded investigation into the practices of the Saginaw police and citing worries about an apparent pattern of racial profiling.

On Monday the ACLU "testified… before the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR) about the failure of the U.S. Justice Department to prosecute officers involved in the unjustified police shooting death."

Although the DoJ declined to file charges in March, Jewel did receive $725,00 in a civil lawsuit settlement with the department, reports MLive.com

The Huffington Post explains that "the [IACHR] has no real authority over the U.S. Yet Michael Steinberg, legal director of the ACLU of Michigan, said he hopes the hearing will serve 'as a wake-up call for the desperate need to address police misconduct against the black citizens of this country,'" and that "The power behind these international tribunals is to draw attention to the problem and to put pressure on the United States to abide by human rights principles."

You can watch the dashcam video here:

Let's compare those cops' reactions to this guardsman's:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?453577-quot-A-Good-Guy-With-A-Gun-Has-Never-Stopped-A-Bad-Guy-With-A-Gun-quot&p=5684446#post5684446


According to The Blaze, 2nd Lt. Joshua Nelson, a West Virginia Air National Guardsman, popped in to the local Walmart in Del Rio, Texas, to pick up some supplies for a trip to the lake. While he and his wife and children were putting things in the cart, they heard a woman scream, “Stop! Put that down!”

The fear in her voice led Nelson to search for the source of the commotion. USAF News reports that he “looked into the aisle, and this young man had a knife to a woman’s stomach.”

He quickly directed his wife to take the kids to the front of the store and call the police. He told The Blaze that the safety of his family was his top priority. Both Nelson and his wife hold concealed carry permits, and both had their guns with them on this day. Like many armed citizens, they hoped to never need to use their weapons, but on this day, they were thankful that they had them, even in Walmart.
[...]
As Joshua approached the woman and her filet-knife-wielding attacker, he says he “thought real hard about drawing my gun,” deciding instead to put his hand on his gun, letting the perpetrator know that he was armed. He didn’t want to spook him by drawing his weapon and have him cut his victim in a panic. Nelson’s military training kicked in as he addressed the situation.

That was when the drama took a different turn. The assailant turned the knife on himself, threatening to kill himself. Nelson was able to talk him down, telling him that they could get help for him. According to USAF, other Walmart employees had gathered by that time, and joined the Guardsman in trying to convince the man to put the knife down.

He finally cooperated, and kicked the knife toward Nelson as he ordered. Then, he turned to run out. That was not an option for him, and Nelson assumed the voice of military command, telling him to “stop” and “sit down” while they waited for the police to arrive. The man complied.

[pcosmar]

Folks, the end result with a Communist state is always the same: Mass executions.

There is not, and has never been a communist state.. ever.

Communism is so grossly incomparable with human nature that it will never exist anywhere but philosophic fantasy.

What you see is the inevitable result of Authoritarianism. (regardless of inaccurate descriptors applied to it)

[Anti Federalist]

There is not, and has never been a communist state.. ever.

Communism is so grossly incomparable with human nature that it will never exist anywhere but philosophic fantasy.

What you see is the inevitable result of Authoritarianism. (regardless of inaccurate descriptors applied to it)

Yes, exactly, this.

[FindLiberty]

It's where the far Left and far Right political ideologies meet, both eagerly
invoking the use of unlimited coercive force by government.

Supposedly, our U. S. Constitution prevents authoritarians from abusing
peaceful people who cause no harm to others and only desire the blessings
of Liberty for everyone.

In a few days, another batch of abuse-enabled authoritarians will be elected...

[tod evans]

In a few days, another batch of abuse-enabled authoritarians will be elected...

The elected ones are "above" actually inflicting abuse unless it's accidental....

The abusers are firmly entrenched in their positions sheltered from such things as elections and accountability.

[coastie]

Ok, I am going to break down the fallacies in each of your statements. Number one, mace is not outlawed. They still shoot pepper balls and mace people daily.

I am not quite sure what a 'prole' is.. maybe police jargon? Either way, they weren't protesting the tasers until it became torturous punishment inflicted by power tripping cops and quite often became murderous. e.g. 'pleeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaseeeeee'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFH9kmKZX_o


Yes, people often tend to complain when their rights are violated.

And herein lies the peak of your absurdity. Yes, there are no other options but summarily executing people. That sounds like something a cop would say. So, with all due respect, get a real fuckin' job why don't you? You know, one not off of the backs of taxpayers.

ETA: Prole- 1. a member of the proletariat. 2. a person who performs routine tasks in a society

While you are correct in it not being outlawed, it is not widely used anymore for the very reasons pacelli stated.

Mace is a tear gas, not a pepper spray, and I'm pretty sure it is no longer manufactured in it's tear gas only form. I'm also pretty sure that was just a shortened trademark name for General Mace It now has CN, OC and an ultraviolet marker in it, from what I recall from my training years ago. Sounds like fun. ( I've been exposed to both OC and tear gas - and I'll take the tear gas any day, thank you very much. )

We didn't carry it because it was a liability, we carried OC like 99.999% of law enforcement. I've never even heard of anyone(agencies) carrying Mace.

So yeah - I've always hated when people say Mace, because it's not terminologically correct.

ETA- lmao, I just looked it up on wikipedia, and it looks like I actually pad attention in that class ten years ago!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_%28spray%29

Mace (spray)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mace is the genericized trademark of Chemical Mace, the brand name of an early type of aerosol self defense spray invented by Allan Lee Litman in 1965. The first commercial product of its type, Litman's design packaged CN tear gas dissolved in hydrocarbon solvents into a small aerosol spray can, usable in almost any environment and strong enough (when sprayed in the face) to act as a credible deterrent and incapacitant. Its popularity led to the brand name being shortened to simply "Mace" for all defense sprays (regardless of the composition).
History

The original formulation consisted of 1% phenacyl chloride (CN) in a solvent of 2-butanol, propylene glycol, cyclohexene, and dipropylene glycol methyl ether.

Chemical Mace was originally invented in 1965 by Allan Lee Litman, founder and co-owner of Pittsburgh-based General Ordnance Equipment Corporation (GOEC), after his wife, Doris, was threatened on the street. In 1987, Chemical Mace was sold to Smith & Wesson and manufactured by their Lake Erie Chemical division. Smith & Wesson subsequently transferred ownership to Jon E. Goodrich along with the rest of the chemical division in what is now Mace Security International. Though the design has been expanded on, the original Chemical Mace formula using only CN has since been discontinued. Due to the potentially toxic nature of CN and the generally superior incapacitating qualities of oleoresin capsicum (OC) pepper spray in most situations, the early CN has been mostly supplanted by OC formulas in police use, although Mace Security International still retains a popular "Triple Action" formula combining CN, OC and an ultraviolet marker dye.

[JK/SEA]

bump....

because this one pisses me off ...

[2young2vote]

I think of this every time I drive by that parking lot in Saginaw. Instead of risking their body to save that man and help him, they just lit him up. These cops weren't protecting anyone but themselves, and at the point that the police are more likely to protect themselves rather than a normal citizen, whats the point?

[Danke]

Yes, he was most certainly walking away from that situation. (Get the rope)



When exactly did bxm snap?

[jmdrake]

When exactly did bxm snap?

I was thinking that myself. Did his sarcasm generator break? :confused:

Okay, I'll take over. Clearly it was safer for the officers to make the shot once the dangerous knife wielding ninja assassin turned away from them.

[A Son of Liberty]

yikes, executed for wielding a little pocket knife. That's just sad. I got a feeling the supposed Wild West was less dangerous than today.

http://mises.org/library/not-so-wild-wild-west