Was the shooter mentally ill?

[itshappening]

I bet you he was on some powerful, prescription drugs.

Anyone know any details yet?

[dannno]

We don't even know who the shooter is for sure yet.. They started with Ryan Lanza and they threw his facebook page up on CNN and Fox News for about a half hour or so before they realized it was supposedly his brother, Adam Lanza.

Then there is the second shooting suspect in camo they grabbed out of the woods, reports are he told parents as he walked by in the hands of authorities that 'he didn't do it'.

So much conflicting information coming out, this happens every single time one of these shootings occur. There are 10 different versions in the first 24 hours, everything keeps changing and they confused the fuck out of everybody and then come out the next day with their "final" sanitized version of events.

The thing is, if something like this "really" happened and actually caught everybody off guard, there would be a few mistakes in reporting, but not on the scale that we are seeing now. No, this is all being done for the purposes of deception.

The media and the President are already saying that we need to do everything we can to prevent these types of events in the future, and they mean gun control.

This act was so incredibly egregious and I am told well timed with a recent decision in Illinois to scale back gun control. I am going to err on the side of this being an event that was planned and controlled to some degree, they had a patsy or two and likely used some type of mind control.

[itshappening]

they haven't got the patsy dossier ready yet. just have to wait until the news/propaganda organs get the word from the authorities to release it

[dannno]

they haven't got the patsy dossier ready yet. just have to wait until the news/propaganda organs get the word from the authorities to release it

Yes, the whole Ryan Lanza facebook thing was a great diversion.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbzcvpQyWI1r2fpe4o1_500.gif

[COpatriot]

Yes, the whole Ryan Lanza facebook thing was a great diversion.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbzcvpQyWI1r2fpe4o1_500.gif

lol

[Aratus]

years ago, a guy from philly, we have mario lanza starring in a b+w bio flic about enrico caruso.

the guy when at MGM had taken his mother's last name as his stage name. he was very famous.

[itshappening]

Here we go... the patsy dossier is ready!

-
Ryan Lanza, 24, brother of gunman Adam Lanza, 20, tells authorities that his younger brother is autistic, or has Asperger syndrome and a “personality disorder.” Neighbors described the younger man to ABC as “odd” and displaying characteristics associated with obsessive-compulsive disorder... MORE...

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/12/live-updates-newtown-ct-school-shooting/

[Aratus]

sometimes autistic people and aspies are medicated.

the 20 year old often acted out, he has a record...

he may have killed both his parents, two crime scenes.

[itshappening]

If he had Aspergers or OCD he would most definitely be on some sort of medication, possibly anti-psychotics.

[Aratus]

we can refuse the BIG~pharma trendy drugs of the hour but this is more easily said if one is an adult and is a christian scientist

[nobody's_hero]

Here we go... the patsy dossier is ready!

-
Ryan Lanza, 24, brother of gunman Adam Lanza, 20, tells authorities that his younger brother is autistic, or has Asperger syndrome and a “personality disorder.” Neighbors described the younger man to ABC as “odd” and displaying characteristics associated with obsessive-compulsive disorder... MORE...



http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/12/live-updates-newtown-ct-school-shooting/

Police chief: "Hey, can someone print me another copy of the 'stereotypical perpetrator press release'? We're all out."

Rookie Cop: "On it, Chief."

[CaptLouAlbano]

I'm older, most of you folks don't remember this, but we used to have insane asylums and people were committed, either by their family or doctors when they weren't fit for living in society. In the 70's or so the liberals started closing these places, claiming it was inhuman to lock people away.

These weren't really bad places, just a place for people to live and keep them medicated and in check. We had a distant family member who was in one. These days though they just medicate people and let them live among the rest of us.

Not sure what the shooters issues were, if he had any, but with all these recent events - it makes guys like me think what might be different if people were locked up like they used to be.

[itshappening]

Police chief: "Hey, can someone make me another copy of the 'stereotypical perpetrator press release'?"

Rookie Cop: "On it, Chief."

They've already had the file on him for HOURS and are selectively leaking the press hence the confusion over 'Ryan Lanza'.

No doubt they're sifting through pictures and trying to find the most deranged looking one of him to push.

[itshappening]

I'm older, most of you folks don't remember this, but we used to have insane asylums and people were committed, either by their family or doctors when they weren't fit for living in society. In the 70's or so the liberals started closing these places, claiming it was inhuman to lock people away.

These weren't really bad places, just a place for people to live and keep them medicated and in check. We had a distant family member who was in one. These days though they just medicate people and let them live among the rest of us.

Not sure what the shooters issues were, if he had any, but with all these recent events - it makes guys like me think what might be different if people were locked up like they used to be.

Yep, there are lots of kids wondering around drugged up to the eyeballs on powerful prescription meds and with an economy with very little opportunities and are trying to live off disability.

[Aratus]

we went from horrid "snake pits" like auld bedlam to BIG~pharma mass zombies

[twomp]

Everyone has their own theory on this. Some will say it is a conspiracy. Some will say more gun control is needed. Some will say it's the prescription meds he was taking. But I will be different and I will go out on a limb and say that if this dude was prescribed some marijuana. He would be at home right now probably hungry as fk while the rest of us discuss issues like the Federal Reserve declaring that they will start buy 85 billion a month in mortgage backed securities (up from 40 a month).

That is my solution to this. Don't take away our guns and give the dude some weed instead of some prescription pills.

[cbrons]

I bet you he was on some powerful, prescription drugs.

Anyone know any details yet?

I don't know. Perhaps. Probably. The shooter was evil, and we live in a totally a-moral society. The main factor in all of these shootings is pure evil, thanks in large part to generation after generation of moral relativism vis-a-vis left-wing social engineering.

[Philhelm]

Yes, the whole Ryan Lanza facebook thing was a great diversion.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbzcvpQyWI1r2fpe4o1_500.gif

What is that from?

[Aratus]

poor ryan lanza has had to face a grilling by the fbi + the local cops.
there was a death at a second location in the poor town. if his father
is dead or another sibling or a neighbor, then that death happened b4
the very tragic rampage where the killer went into the 2 classrooms.

[Philhelm]

I'm older, most of you folks don't remember this, but we used to have insane asylums and people were committed, either by their family or doctors when they weren't fit for living in society. In the 70's or so the liberals started closing these places, claiming it was inhuman to lock people away.

These weren't really bad places, just a place for people to live and keep them medicated and in check. We had a distant family member who was in one. These days though they just medicate people and let them live among the rest of us.

Not sure what the shooters issues were, if he had any, but with all these recent events - it makes guys like me think what might be different if people were locked up like they used to be.

Whoa! While I agree that medication isn't the answer, I think that it is anti-liberty to just lock people up on a whim. This is especially true now that every aspect of natural human behavior is given a psychological classification. I guarantee that if every one of us were to check ourselves into a psychiatric hospital, that the witch-doctors would find something wrong with us.

[itshappening]

UPDATE:

4:52 p.m: Neighbors described Adam Lanza to ABC as “odd” and displaying characteristics associated with mental illness.

[itshappening]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A-G_YwQCEAA3R63.jpg

Liberal Hollywood glamorize guns, then whine about the consequences.

[ronpaulfollower999]

I'm older, most of you folks don't remember this, but we used to have insane asylums and people were committed, either by their family or doctors when they weren't fit for living in society. In the 70's or so the liberals started closing these places, claiming it was inhuman to lock people away.

These weren't really bad places, just a place for people to live and keep them medicated and in check. We had a distant family member who was in one. These days though they just medicate people and let them live among the rest of us.

Not sure what the shooters issues were, if he had any, but with all these recent events - it makes guys like me think what might be different if people were locked up like they used to be.

My grandmother worked as a nurse at one during the 50's. Said the patients were always treated extremely well, and she always tells interesting stories about what went on.

[Aratus]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!! THIS !!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
we all cannot blame our decline in public mores and private morals on poor charlton heston.
conservatives are often more consistent, and social conservatives can censor sex + violence.

[thoughtomator]

I'm older, most of you folks don't remember this, but we used to have insane asylums and people were committed, either by their family or doctors when they weren't fit for living in society. In the 70's or so the liberals started closing these places, claiming it was inhuman to lock people away.

These weren't really bad places, just a place for people to live and keep them medicated and in check. We had a distant family member who was in one. These days though they just medicate people and let them live among the rest of us.


I remember them, and quite a number of nightmare cases where parents had their children committed for being disobedient.

[alucard13mmfmj]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A-G_YwQCEAA3R63.jpg

Liberal Hollywood glamorize guns, then whine about the consequences.

You know what? You have a good point O_O.

[Brian4Liberty]

Was the shooter mentally ill?

It really goes without saying. A sane person would not do this.


I'm older, most of you folks don't remember this, but we used to have insane asylums and people were committed, either by their family or doctors when they weren't fit for living in society. In the 70's or so the liberals started closing these places, claiming it was inhuman to lock people away.

These weren't really bad places, just a place for people to live and keep them medicated and in check. We had a distant family member who was in one. These days though they just medicate people and let them live among the rest of us.

Not sure what the shooters issues were, if he had any, but with all these recent events - it makes guys like me think what might be different if people were locked up like they used to be.

There is a danger and slippery slope that comes with involuntarily committing people. On the other hand, what we had did work fairly well, and what we have today is a mess, and sometimes dangerous on city streets. It would be reasonable to commit people who prove that they are not fit to be in society, if they are a) diagnosed by professionals, and b) have a history of anti-social criminal acts. Just continuously putting them in jail over and over does not work. But for shooters who have no history of violence or crimes, there is no way to know this before-hand.

Not all schizophrenics are shooters or killers. On the other hand, schizophrenia, which generally manifests itself in the early 20, matches the profile of most of these shooters. And that does not preclude them having other mental disorders before that. The SSRI (prescription drug) side effect seems to change some people's suicide thoughts to murder/suicide thoughts. We may be seeing people who would just kill themselves in the past, going on these outrageous killing sprees now.

[itshappening]

Whatever he was on screwed his thought patterns.

[Brian4Liberty]

Whoa! While I agree that medication isn't the answer, I think that it is anti-liberty to just lock people up on a whim. This is especially true now that every aspect of natural human behavior is given a psychological classification. I guarantee that if every one of us were to check ourselves into a psychiatric hospital, that the witch-doctors would find something wrong with us.

Got that right. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[erowe1]

Everyone has their own theory on this. Some will say it is a conspiracy. Some will say more gun control is needed. Some will say it's the prescription meds he was taking. But I will be different and I will go out on a limb and say that if this dude was prescribed some marijuana. He would be at home right now probably hungry as fk while the rest of us discuss issues like the Federal Reserve declaring that they will start buy 85 billion a month in mortgage backed securities (up from 40 a month).

That is my solution to this. Don't take away our guns and give the dude some weed instead of some prescription pills.

I'm not usually big on pro-marijuana rhetoric. But I like this angle here.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Everyone has their own theory on this. Some will say it is a conspiracy. Some will say more gun control is needed. Some will say it's the prescription meds he was taking. But I will be different and I will go out on a limb and say that if this dude was prescribed some marijuana. He would be at home right now probably hungry as fk while the rest of us discuss issues like the Federal Reserve declaring that they will start buy 85 billion a month in mortgage backed securities (up from 40 a month).

That is my solution to this. Don't take away our guns and give the dude some weed instead of some prescription pills.. Weed for President 16

[Aratus]

agreed. run Doug Weed. if Rand doesn't.

[AGRP]

Do we have to ask?

[Aratus]

dude has a Facebook page and he's written a few books.

[Aratus]

the latest news opine has the CT shooter having anxiety attacks

[CaptLouAlbano]

Whoa! While I agree that medication isn't the answer, I think that it is anti-liberty to just lock people up on a whim. This is especially true now that every aspect of natural human behavior is given a psychological classification. I guarantee that if every one of us were to check ourselves into a psychiatric hospital, that the witch-doctors would find something wrong with us.

Keep in mind that a lot of these hospitals were founded during the time of the founders. So I wouldn't call them anti-liberty. It wasn't the gov't committing people, it was in large part at the request of their families who cared enough about their well being to ensure they had the proper care that was needed for them. There certainly were some problems with them, but like anything aspect of our society there are good and bad results from every solution.

The fact is, 50 years ago, some of the people that have committed these recent shootings, might very well not be walking the streets in the first place. But the problem is more than just locking people away - we do have a societal problem with the dissolution of the family which is something paleo-cons like myself harp on a lot.

[dannno]

Whatever he was on screwed his thought patterns.


Vaccines + ???

[Aratus]

anxiety attacks or was he a paranoid schizoid personality who'd act out?

[Schifference]

I'm older, most of you folks don't remember this, but we used to have insane asylums and people were committed, either by their family or doctors when they weren't fit for living in society. In the 70's or so the liberals started closing these places, claiming it was inhuman to lock people away.

These weren't really bad places, just a place for people to live and keep them medicated and in check. We had a distant family member who was in one. These days though they just medicate people and let them live among the rest of us.

Not sure what the shooters issues were, if he had any, but with all these recent events - it makes guys like me think what might be different if people were locked up like they used to be.
Pretty soon we will all be locked up, tamed, controlled, subdued, compliant.

[dannno]

What is that from?

Trailer Park Boys. It's Canadian.

Just go and downloads Season 1-7 and all the movies and get ready for months of entertainment.

[Aratus]

we've seen autism, aspergers and anxiety disorders being looked at, and even if he's schizophrenic.
evidently in NJ the older 24 year old brother and his roomate were asked questions by the authorities
when the mass media was handed the brother's name. there have been speculative stories about this.

[Schifference]

Keep in mind that a lot of these hospitals were founded during the time of the founders. So I wouldn't call them anti-liberty. It wasn't the gov't committing people, it was in large part at the request of their families who cared enough about their well being to ensure they had the proper care that was needed for them. There certainly were some problems with them, but like anything aspect of our society there are good and bad results from every solution.
Remember Frances Farmer?

[erowe1]

Are either mental illnesses or drugs enough to explain this?

What makes someone kill kindergartners?

[James Madison]

anxiety attacks or was he a paranoid schizoid personality who'd act out?

If it is confirmed he suffers from AS, then I would give the probability he was on an SSRI >80%. Depression coupled with seratonin poisoning could take someone who's mentally unstable and turn them into a delusional psychotic.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Pretty soon we will all be locked up, tamed, controlled, subdued, compliant.

Don't be silly. It's talk like that which allows our opponents to label us as nutjobs.

The fact of the matter though, is we used to have places for mentally ill people to live out their lives getting the help they need, the meds they needed and at the same time keep them separated from society. This really was only a generation or so ago, and again this was not gov't committal, but family. But due to liberalism, many of the people who in years past would be kept safely from society are hopped up on multiple psych drugs and committing crimes.

[James Madison]

Are either mental illnesses or drugs enough to explain this?

What makes someone kill kindergartners?

The same thing that makes an LSD user think they can fly.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Remember Frances Farmer?

Vaguely, but yes.

[phill4paul]

The same thing that makes an LSD user think they can fly.

You mean like Frank Olson?

[Aratus]

the movie actress of the 1940s

[Aratus]

the cia guy in 1953

[erowe1]

The same thing that makes an LSD user think they can fly.

But does that kind of being out of one's mind fit this story? The shooter prepared for this by arming himself and donning gear. He supposedly targeted, not just some random people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, but students at the school where his mom taught, after having already traveled to two other places to kill his parents. And then, after killing not one, but a bunch of kindergartners, he killed himself.

There have been bunches of mass shootings over the years. And they're always senseless. But I don't recall one this senseless.

[CaptLouAlbano]

the movie actress of the 1940s

Right. There was always some questions as to whether or not what happened to her was true and how much was sensationalized. There were some bad hospitals for sure, but not all places were bad. The one my relative was in was very nice. It was private/charity/self funded. The patients there made some sort of craft that was sold to the public - can't recall what it was though, it's been about 50 years or so and I am relying on my wife's memory here.

[tttppp]

I bet you he was on some powerful, prescription drugs.

Anyone know any details yet?

Accordining to psychiatrists everyone is mentally ill, even healthy people. So of course this guy is mentally ill. I don't have the stats, but Ill bet behavior like this is more common from a bad reaction to drugs than it would be not being on enough drugs.

[James Madison]

But does that kind of being out of one's mind fit this story? The shooter prepared for this by arming himself and donning gear. He supposedly targeted, not just some random people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, but students at the school where his mom taught, after having already traveled to two other places to kill his parents. And then, after killing not one, but a bunch of kindergartners, he killed himself.

There have been bunches of mass shootings over the years. And they're always senseless. But I don't recall one this senseless.

Being delusional doesn't necessitate a complete loss of reality. Basic preparation would likely still be possible, but I do have to agree that this case is very odd. This type of behavior simply doesn't exist in nature and yet it's staring us right in the face.

[itshappening]

But does that kind of being out of one's mind fit this story? The shooter prepared for this by arming himself and donning gear. He supposedly targeted, not just some random people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, but students at the school where his mom taught, after having already traveled to two other places to kill his parents. And then, after killing not one, but a bunch of kindergartners, he killed himself.

There have been bunches of mass shootings over the years. And they're always senseless. But I don't recall one this senseless.


he was young, mentally unstable, on some powerful drugs, clear lack of economic opportunities, probably depressed young man with life going no where. Maybe he hates his mom and is seething with resentment, emotions that are magnified by whatever drugs he's on. He see's no hope or way out so does something crazy like this.

[itshappening]

He probably planned this for some time... 'how do I go down in flames? (evil, deranged laugh). He hates his parents, he hates society and the Fed created depression and it's all magnified by whatever he's been given.. this is just his way of going down in flames.

[erowe1]

he was young, mentally unstable, on some powerful drugs, clear lack of economic opportunities, probably depressed young man with life going no where. Maybe he hates his mom and is seething with resentment, emotions that are magnified by whatever drugs he's on. He see's no hope or way out so does something crazy like this.

I can connect the dots from that to killing parents, strangers, and oneself. I have more trouble fitting going to an elementary school and apparently specifically targeting bunches of kindergartners in that.

[itshappening]

I can connect the dots from that to killing parents, strangers, and oneself. I have more trouble fitting going to an elementary school and apparently specifically targeting bunches of kindergartners in that.

I agree it's horrible but this is a pre-planned deranged killing spree, no one is spared under those circumstances. The kids are collateral damage. He kills his mom and is now in full on kill mode, turns the gun on the class.

[erowe1]

The kids are collateral damage.

But that's the thing. He already killed his mom elsewhere, right? And then he went to the school to kill the kids. It doesn't look like they were collateral damage, it looks like they were his target, which amazes me if it's true.

[awake]

When some one comes across his mental history please post it here...

[CaptLouAlbano]

When some one comes across his mental history please post it here...

This is all we have so far:

"Ryan Lanza told law enforcement that his brother was believed to suffer from a personality disorder and be "somewhat autistic" and lived with the mother in Connecticut, the third official added."

[youngbuck]

My guess (didn't read past the first page of the thread), he's mentally ill, was on some dangerous psychotropic drugs, and then went off his meds which sent him into an unpredictable demonic spiral.

[itshappening]

Mentally disabled gunman, 20, killed teacher mom at home before driving to elementary school in her car and shooting TWENTY SIX dead including 20 children

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248197/Sandy-Hook-elementary-shooting-29-dead-including-22-children-Connecticut-school.html#ixzz2F4nrXUDp

I told you in this thread they were digging up the most deranged picture of him before releasing the patsy dossier (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?398521-Was-the-shooter-mentally-ill&p=4775684&viewfull=1#post4775684) ... well, here it is:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/15/article-2248197-168579C1000005DC-946_634x452.jpg

Considering he's meant to be 20 they had to go back a few years for the proverbial deranged pic.

This is a classic patsy dossier release through ABC.

[awake]

This is all we have so far:

"Ryan Lanza told law enforcement that his brother was believed to suffer from a personality disorder and be "somewhat autistic" and lived with the mother in Connecticut, the third official added."

If his parents were the 'politically correct and responsible' types, and Autism or related spectrum disorder was the diagnosis, there is a good chance he was being medicated in some way...

[CaptLouAlbano]

OK so if he was mentally ill, does this mean that he did not legally obtain the weapons? Do we know that yet? That will diffuse all of the "we need more gun laws" talk.

[CaptLouAlbano]

If his parents were the 'politically correct and responsible' types, and Autism or related spectrum disorder was the diagnosis, there is a good chance he was being medicated in some way...

Jumping to conclusions of course, but if his parents were truly responsible, as in 1950's family responsible, he would be under someone's care and not able to wander the streets on his own if he was schizophrenic.

[Lucille]

OK so if he was mentally ill, does this mean that he did not legally obtain the weapons? Do we know that yet? That will diffuse all of the "we need more gun laws" talk.

The weapons were legal. He took them from his mom. HotAir keeps updating:


Update (AP): CNN backs up Fox’s report that the guns were legally purchased by Lanza’s mother, and claims that the rifle was found in the trunk of a car parked at the school.

hxxp://hotair.com/archives/2012/12/14/shooter-identified-in-connecticut-shooting-may-have-targeted-his-teacher-mother/

[CaptLouAlbano]

The weapons were legal. He took them from his mom.

Ok then the problem is he was mentally ill to some degree, and his mother had weapons in the home that were accessible to him.

Hate to keep beating a dead horse, and sounding like an old man -- but in my day a kid like this wouldn't have been left on his own in the first place. They would either have a caretaker, or be in a home.

Our country is severely screwed up, because you know the only "answer" to this will be more gun laws.

[angelatc]

This is all we have so far:

"Ryan Lanza told law enforcement that his brother was believed to suffer from a personality disorder and be "somewhat autistic" and lived with the mother in Connecticut, the third official added."

I can't spend too much time in the threads openly celebrating medical ignorance and maintain any sanity, but I'd like to point out that he was at just the right age to experience a schizophrenic break.

[CaptLouAlbano]

I can't spend too much time in the threads openly celebrating medical ignorance and maintain any sanity, but I'd like to point out that he was at just the right age to experience a schizophrenic break.

Can you expand on that? Not my area of expertise at all. Is 20ish the time frame when people most likely "snap"?

[angelatc]

Jumping to conclusions of course, but if his parents were truly responsible, as in 1950's family responsible, he would be under someone's care and not able to wander the streets on his own if he was schizophrenic.

I beg to differ. I think you're wrong about the quality of care the mental patients got.

My great-grandfather was a schizophrenic. Bear in mind I'm almost 50, so I'm going back to the 40's. He married, had 4 kids, then suffered a break. My great-grandmother went to work in the Depot, making munitions to support the war effort as well as her family, since her husband was a crazy man. He was locked up, and stayed there for 10 years. One day he got tired of being there, so he left. Nobody stopped him, and nobody came looking for him. He came home, and fathered 5 more children. My G-Grandmother didn't try to have him sent back because the conditions there were absolutely horriffic. Rats, bedsores, ceiling leaks, - the tales she told us when we were kids didn't really sink in at the time, but I remember them quite clearly.

Then his disease got bad again, and the police locked him up again in the '70's, which is where he was when he died.

[angelatc]

Can you expand on that? Not my area of expertise at all. Is 20ish the time frame when people most likely "snap"?

Nothing is ever 100%, but most male patients experience their first episode in their late teens, early 20's. Almost all patients get the diagnosis before age 30.

[erowe1]

but in my day a kid like this wouldn't have been left on his own in the first place.

A kid like what? Any kid who falls anywhere on the autism spectrum should be in an asylum?

[FindLiberty]

A kid like what? Any kid who falls anywhere on the autism spectrum should be in an asylum?

Whoa. What?

[Captain Shays]

Are either mental illnesses or drugs enough to explain this?

What makes someone kill kindergartners?

Has anyone mentioned evil yet? Why not call it whatg it is. E V I L

[Captain Shays]

I beg to differ. I think you're wrong about the quality of care the mental patients got.

My great-grandfather was a schizophrenic. Bear in mind I'm almost 50, so I'm going back to the 40's. He married, had 4 kids, then suffered a break. My great-grandmother went to work in the Depot, making munitions to support the war effort as well as her family, since her husband was a crazy man. He was locked up, and stayed there for 10 years. One day he got tired of being there, so he left. Nobody stopped him, and nobody came looking for him. He came home, and fathered 5 more children. My G-Grandmother didn't try to have him sent back because the conditions there were absolutely horriffic. Rats, bedsores, ceiling leaks, - the tales she told us when we were kids didn't really sink in at the time, but I remember them quite clearly.

Then his disease got bad again, and the police locked him up again in the '70's, which is where he was when he died.


Dam! I swear that it nearly the exact same story about my great grand father. You're not from Philly are you? If yes you might just be my cousin lol

[angelatc]

Dam! I swear that it nearly the exact same story about my great grand father. You're not from Philly are you? If yes you might just be my cousin lol

No, Ohio. G-Grandma went to work in the Depot on Broad Street. :)

Of course, maybe G-Granpa went wandering. :o

[parocks]

Typically, this is a situation where we blame the meds. This isn't about not enough people locked up.

The question I would think most people have is: what about his meds?

[CaptLouAlbano]

A kid like what? Any kid who falls anywhere on the autism spectrum should be in an asylum?

I was referring more so to the reported "personality disorder". And not saying we need to lock up everyone, but at the same time we don't pump them full of meds and leave them on their own. Someone there, whether it is a family member or hired caregiver should be providing care to someone that is unstable.

Again, we do not know the extent of this kid's illness, but judging by the fact he killed a bunch of kids today, I am going to guess he wasn't suffering from mild bouts of depression.

[erowe1]

I was referring more so to the reported "personality disorder". And not saying we need to lock up everyone, but at the same time we don't pump them full of meds and leave them on their own.

Yeah, but up until today this guy was presumably not a murderer. And we don't really know what severity of issue he was diagnosed to have. "Personality disorder" is pretty vague.

[CaptLouAlbano]

I beg to differ. I think you're wrong about the quality of care the mental patients got.

My great-grandfather was a schizophrenic. Bear in mind I'm almost 50, so I'm going back to the 40's. He married, had 4 kids, then suffered a break. My great-grandmother went to work in the Depot, making munitions to support the war effort as well as her family, since her husband was a crazy man. He was locked up, and stayed there for 10 years. One day he got tired of being there, so he left. Nobody stopped him, and nobody came looking for him. He came home, and fathered 5 more children. My G-Grandmother didn't try to have him sent back because the conditions there were absolutely horriffic. Rats, bedsores, ceiling leaks, - the tales she told us when we were kids didn't really sink in at the time, but I remember them quite clearly.

Then his disease got bad again, and the police locked him up again in the '70's, which is where he was when he died.

Oh I am aware there were some horrible places - and there still are. But on the same note, there were some really nice places too. I referenced the one my family member was in, was a really nice place.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Yeah, but up until today this guy was presumably not a murderer. And we don't really know what severity of issue he was diagnosed to have.

Right, it's all just speculation really. I'm more concerned about the root cause in general for these types of things. We just didn't have this happen to this degree many years back. Seems to be happening a lot more now, and I'd like to know why

[FindLiberty]

.... You're not from Philly are you? If yes you might just be my cousin lol

...and it might have been something in that water supply. Maybe not everyone is affected by it, and it hit some harder than others.

[FindLiberty]

Maybe the action that needs to taken ASAP is an examination of all those psychotropic prescription drug treatments and their potential horrible side effects.

[Liberty74]

I don't know. Perhaps. Probably. The shooter was evil, and we live in a totally a-moral society. The main factor in all of these shootings is pure evil, thanks in large part to generation after generation of moral relativism vis-a-vis left-wing social engineering.

I would go a bit further and that is the destruction of private property rights by the LEFT which includes "individuals" as human beings (you have a right to your life and body, hence property). If one truly respects such philosophy, no way in the world would a person commit such event today assuming they are sane or assuming this wasn't government staged using some crazy, drugged up person to continue to push a LEFTIST agenda which is exactly what is occurring and many of us conspiracy people have warned would happen. :p

Always wonder why these events always happen at places that have banned guns - Malls? Schools? Movies?

[parocks]

Maybe the action that needs to taken ASAP is an examination of all those psychotropic prescription drug treatments and their potential horrible side effects.

this one. guns have been around a while, these drugs haven't

[presence]

Always wonder why these events always happen at places that have banned guns - Malls? Schools? Movies?


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil influence.
They deserve a place of honour with all that's good.
When firearms go, all goes.
We need them every hour.

George Washington

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?398499-BREAKING-mass-shooting-at-elementary-school&p=4775971&viewfull=1#post4775971

[Brian4Liberty]

But that's the thing. He already killed his mom elsewhere, right? And then he went to the school to kill the kids. It doesn't look like they were collateral damage, it looks like they were his target, which amazes me if it's true.

There was a kid that hacked his mom up with a hammer. He did it because he was going to commit suicide, and didn't want to put his Mom through that...

[Tod]

Awfully convenient to have a bunch of grade-schoolers killed just as one is gearing up to restrict firearms. Kinda sets the stage, so to speak, and gets people talking about the "need" for something to be done.

[Schifference]

Maybe the kid really loved the Dad and felt that the post divorce financial arrangements were unfair and figured out a way to nullify the settlement.

[Todd]

Awfully convenient to have a bunch of grade-schoolers killed just as one is gearing up to restrict firearms. Kinda sets the stage, so to speak, and gets people talking about the "need" for something to be done.

And the last couple of instances from Cho at Virginia Tech to the Batman Movie massacre, have all involved people with "mental issues".


Some day we may all be diagnosed with some mental issue, and not be allowed to carry firearms.

[CaptLouAlbano]

And the last couple of instances from Cho at Virginia Tech to the Batman Movie massacre, have all involved people with "mental issues".


Some day we may all be diagnosed with some mental issue, and not be allowed to carry firearms.

Well of course these people have mental issues. A rational and sane person does not go into a movie theater or a school and open fire on a bunch of people. I personally am curious to find out how many psych meds all these guys (along with a lot of other random criminals) are taking.

The one common thread though between the schools, the mall, the Sikh temple and the movie theater - all of the places were "gun free zones". Of particular interest is the shooting in the movie theater. From what I heard last night on the radio, the shooter had 7 movie theaters to choose from, some were larger, others were closer to home. The one he chose to target was the only one of the seven that publicized itself as being a "gun free zone".

The anti-gun folks are having a field day with this CT incident, since everyone feels for the families and recognizes it as a tragedy. We need to be smart in the way we counter their attacks on the 2nd. Instead of trotting out our usual info on gun laws vs gun crimes - I think in this case we should turn the tables on them and blame the gun free zone law for creating a situation where the teachers and students of the school were sitting ducks.

[Working Poor]

The same thing that makes an LSD user think they can fly.
Wrong...

[truelies]

The real question is- Was this person another mind controlled robot sent out to keep the sheeple trembling & in their place?

[Natural Citizen]

The anti-gun folks are having a field day with this CT incident, since everyone feels for the families and recognizes it as a tragedy. We need to be smart in the way we counter their attacks on the 2nd. Instead of trotting out our usual info on gun laws vs gun crimes - I think in this case we should turn the tables on them and blame the gun free zone law for creating a situation where the teachers and students of the school were sitting ducks.

There is a clear and decisive means of going about it. I'm curious to see what that route is from the minds of the grassroots. Not a good time to be content with short sighted actions and theory regarding the means. Theoretically yuns shot yourselves in the foot with the prop 37 shenanigans but hypocrisy could be the revelation needed to maybe wake some people up. There is only a small window of opportunity, really. Of course, folks are going to be bombarded with anti 2nd amendment spew but those terms of controversy can only exist if you let them. And if you do then they will inflate.

All of these people who committed these crimes were under psychiatric care and medicated. All of them. So...think about that. Rand had a pretty good amendment earlier this year regarding the fda and one that would actually serve to maybe present opportunity to give big pharma a once over as far as where much blame may reside in some of these mindsets. Some other stuff as well. But, yes. I agree. Terms of controversy need shifting. And it's not difficult to do. Just cannot become engulfed in the spew that will come from anti 2nd brood. If you do then they win.

[truelies]

......................... A rational and sane person does not go into a movie theater or a school and open fire on a bunch of people. ................

Of course he/she does when on a Mission for the State and the Rules of Engagement allow.

[CaptLouAlbano]

There is a clear and decisive means of going about it. I'm curious to see what that route is from the minds of the grassroots. Not a good time to be content with short sighted actions and theory regarding the means. Theoretically yuns shot yourselves in the foot with the prop 37 shenanigans but hypocrisy could be the revelation needed to maybe wake some people up. There is only a small window of opportunity, really. Of course, folks are going to be bombarded with anti 2nd amendment spew but those terms of controversy can only exist if you let them. And if you do then they will inflate.

All of these people who committed these crimes were under psychiatric care and medicated. All of them. So...think about that. Rand had a pretty good amendment earlier this year regarding the fda and one that would actually serve to maybe present opportunity to give big pharma a once over as far as where much blame may reside in some of these mindsets. Some other stuff as well. But, yes. I agree. Terms of controversy need shifting. And it's not difficult to do. Just cannot become engulfed in the spew that will come from anti 2nd brood. If you do then they win.

I agree. We cannot take the same approach we have for years, i.e. "gun laws do not stop gun violence". It's been played over and over, and depending on who computes the figures they can be spun however you wish. I saw one stat about handgun violence in the home, but it neglected to exclude suicides - so the stat made it look like people all across the country are firing off handguns in the home like they were cap guns.

Anyway, I think we need to show the commonality with all these shootings - psych meds which contribute to the shooters actions; and "anti-gun zones" which make citizens sitting ducks.

[kathy88]

The same thing that makes an LSD user think they can fly.i ate acid like candy for ten years and never once thought I could fly.

[Petar]

i ate acid like candy for ten years and never once thought I could fly.

Haha, did not expect that from you..

[pcosmar]

The same thing that makes an LSD user think they can fly.


You mean like Frank Olson?

Isn't propaganda interesting?

The whole "thought he could fly" was a cover story,, to cover up his murder. And yet persists to this day.

A cover story,, to hide facts about MK Ultra.
A program that used drugs and other techniques to turn ordinary people into killers.

It is interesting..No?

[phill4paul]

Isn't propaganda interesting?

The whole "thought he could fly" was a cover story,, to cover up his murder. And yet persists to this day.

A cover story,, to hide facts about MK Ultra.
A program that used drugs and other techniques to turn ordinary people into killers.

It is interesting..No?

Indeed.

[KingNothing]

Was the shooter mentally ill?

Well, he shot dozens of children.

[kcchiefs6465]

i ate acid like candy for ten years and never once thought I could fly.
Yeah, but you didn't have government goons no doubt talking to you about all kinds of crazy shit. As I am sure you are aware, your trip can and will be influenced by those you have around you and what they are talking about. I've witnessed the room turn from bright, warm, and fuzzy to cold, dark, and cloudy in 10 seconds time. I finally refused to talk to this kid/be around him for the rest of the night.



Isn't propaganda interesting?

The whole "thought he could fly" was a cover story,, to cover up his murder. And yet persists to this day.

A cover story,, to hide facts about MK Ultra.
A program that used drugs and other techniques to turn ordinary people into killers.

It is interesting..No?
I agree with your post. One correction, 'A program that used drugs and other techniques to try to turn ordinary people into killers.' His death was undoubtedly a murder. Whether he died after they talked to him about some undoubtedly weird and creepy shit and he tried to escape, or whether they threw him off. I'd need to refresh myself on the case but wasn't there evidence of him being thrown off? Strange bruise patterns and such? If I recall correctly anyways.

[donnay]

Keep in mind that a lot of these hospitals were founded during the time of the founders. So I wouldn't call them anti-liberty. It wasn't the gov't committing people, it was in large part at the request of their families who cared enough about their well being to ensure they had the proper care that was needed for them. There certainly were some problems with them, but like anything aspect of our society there are good and bad results from every solution.

The fact is, 50 years ago, some of the people that have committed these recent shootings, might very well not be walking the streets in the first place. But the problem is more than just locking people away - we do have a societal problem with the dissolution of the family which is something paleo-cons like myself harp on a lot.

We should have learned lessons from that, but we never did. There are plenty of horror stories that came out of those institutions...most of them quietly swept under the rug. Electric shock treatment, forced lobotomies, cruel and inhumane treatment--oh yes, those were the days! :rolleyes: Now our CIA use these very tactics in their enhanced interrogations!!!

The drugs that they are putting kids on today are like forced lobotomies. They do not need these institutions anymore, they drug our drinking water with sodium fluoride--which severely lowers our IQ, and the preservatives in our foods affect our brains, and the medical community like to just hand out mind-altering drugs like candy on Halloween night!!

People won't learn because they choose to close their eyes to the things that go on around them and things that have gone on in the past.

This country is in a sad state of affairs.

[donnay]

And the last couple of instances from Cho at Virginia Tech to the Batman Movie massacre, have all involved people with "mental issues".


Some day we may all be diagnosed with some mental issue, and not be allowed to carry firearms.

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) is a label being used to take our guns away. Our veterans are finding this out slowly but surely.

[CaptainAmerica]

"mentally ill" or just extremely narcissistic ? Is that the same thing , I'm not sure but he sure was full of hate.

[Natural Citizen]

I agree. We cannot take the same approach we have for years, i.e. "gun laws do not stop gun violence". It's been played over and over, and depending on who computes the figures they can be spun however you wish. I saw one stat about handgun violence in the home, but it neglected to exclude suicides - so the stat made it look like people all across the country are firing off handguns in the home like they were cap guns.

Anyway, I think we need to show the commonality with all these shootings - psych meds which contribute to the shooters actions; and "anti-gun zones" which make citizens sitting ducks.

Ron Paul's Parental Consent Act was a good start although it was limited in effect by relegating to federal funding of the practice only. The practice itself with lack of oversight of the fda's conformity to the industry should be the broader vision, I think.

Per Ron -- Many children have suffered harmful side effects from using psychotropic drugs. Some of the possible side effects include mania, violence, dependence and weight gain" Paul has said. "Yet, parents are already being threatened with child abuse charges if they resist efforts to drug their children. Imagine how much easier it will be to drug children against their parents' wishes if a federally-funded mental-health screener makes the recommendation."

Though first introduced a couple of years ago, the repackaged Parental Consent Act of 2011 (H.R. 2769 - previously H.R. 2218 in 2009) would keep "federal education funds from being used to pay any local educational agency or other instrument of government that uses the refusal of a parent or legal guardian to provide consent to mental health screening as the basis of a charge of child (http://www.naturalnews.com/child.html) abuse, child neglect, medical neglect, or education neglect until the agency or instrument demonstrates that it is no longer using such refusal as a basis of such charge," according to the Citizens Commission on Human Rights International.

Already, too many children are suffering from being prescribed psychotropic drugs for nothing more than children's typical rambunctious behavior. According to Medco Health Solutions, more than 2.2 million children are receiving more than one psychotropic drug at one time," Paul said. "In fact, according to Medico Trends, in 2003, total spending on psychiatric drugs for children exceeded spending on antibiotics or asthma medication."

[Schifference]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJzj8dRRmbk

[pcosmar]

"mentally ill" or just extremely narcissistic ? Is that the same thing , I'm not sure but he sure was full of hate.

You know that how? ,, (Media reports??)

I don't know if he was the villain or victim.. ?

And who was the second guy that has dissipated from the story? What was his role?

[pochy1776]

We should have learned lessons from that, but we never did. There are plenty of horror stories that came out of those institutions...most of them quietly swept under the rug. Electric shock treatment, forced lobotomies, cruel and inhumane treatment--oh yes, those were the days! :rolleyes: Now our CIA use these very tactics in their enhanced interrogations!!!

The drugs that they are putting kids on today are like forced lobotomies. They do not need these institutions anymore, they drug our drinking water with sodium fluoride--which severely lowers our IQ, and the preservatives in our foods affect our brains, and the medical community like to just hand out mind-altering drugs like candy on Halloween night!!

People won't learn because they choose to close their eyes to the things that go on around them and things that have gone on in the past.

This country is in a sad state of affairs.

You've been reading too much anti-psychiatry dreck. How do YOU know that they are rambunctious children or not? Are YOU certified? These diseases are real and life altering, drugs actually help more than harm.

[pcosmar]

Are YOU certified?

by Who??

:confused:

[donnay]

You've been reading too much anti-psychiatry dreck. How do YOU know that they are rambunctious children or not? Are YOU certified? These diseases are real and life altering, drugs actually help more than harm.

These diseases are real or invented? Go read the SSRI horror stories and come back to the discussion--m'kay?

Source:
http://ssristories.com/index.php?p=murdersuicide


British psychiatry: from eugenics to assassination
By Anton Chaitkin, Executive Intelligence Review, V21 #40, [30 July 2002]

A behavior control research project was begun in the 1950s, coordinated by the British psychological warfare unit called the Tavistock Institute, with the Scottish Rite Masons, the Central Intelligence Agency, and other British, U.S., Canadian, and United Nations agencies. The project became famous in the 1970s under a CIA code name, “MK-Ultra.” Its notoriety for brainwashing by drugs, hypnosis, electroshock, and other tortures caused many books to be written about the project, and the U.S. Senate conducted hearings which exposed many of its abusive features. President Gerald Ford appointed a commission headed by Vice President Nelson Rockefeller, to correct the CIA's misconduct. There was a widespread anti-establishment view at the time, that here was the fox appointed to guard the hen house. The intelligence agencies offered a public rationale for the project: the need to counteract and compete with the mind-control capabilities of the communists. This was largely based on the fact that U.S. personnel held prisoner by the enemy in the Korean War had signed false confessions of crimes, and some had defected to North Korea, the apparent result of brainwashing.

{The Manchurian Candidate,} a 1959 book which was made into a popular movie in 1962, reflected this rationale. It told the story of a communist plot to use a U.S. soldier brainwashed in Manchuria as a zombie-assassin, to kill the leading U.S. presidential candidate. A central theme of MK-Ultra was to attempt to control the human mind in a similar way. Threatened and accomplished assassination of political leaders has become increasingly frequent in public life since the 1960s. Just since the 1992 election campaign, for example, President Bill Clinton has been the target of at least 15 assassination threats. Many of these would-be killers, and many of the assassins of past years, had been in destructive psychiatric programs, or were members of psychiatrically manipulated cults. The present threats are the more meaningful, in the context of the British-led Whitewater scandal directed against the presidency. It is long past time for a thorough public inquiry into the assassination epidemic, whereby its relationship to the official project to {create assassins} would be fully explored. A great obstacle to clear thinking in this area has been the assumption that the U.S. government would not sponsor programs for the murder of American leaders. This logical assumption misses the point, that the overall project, including “MK-Ultra,” has been foreign-sponsored and anti-American in its purposes. We shall outline here the British background of this deeply criminal enterprise, with its roots in the political and psychiatric movement called eugenics.
- 1909-13: the buildup to World War I -

John D. Rockefeller created the family-run {{Rockefeller Foundation,}} in parallel with the birth of the British-inspired Federal Reserve, the Internal Revenue Service, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. In 1909-13 and subsequent years, Rockefeller transferred blocs of the family-owned Standard Oil Co. worth more than $300 million to the account of the foundation under its trustees who were family members, and their employees. Thus was established a global instrument for radical social change, using American money and British strategy. John D. Rockefeller had begun his oil business in the 1860s with British capital. The family's relationship to the British Empire a half-century later was centered in the person of John D. ‘s brother {{William Rockefeller,}} the president of Standard Oil of New York (later Mobil) and the founder of National City Bank (later Citibank). In 1911, brother William employed, in a private capacity through his elite social club, a high-ranking British secret intelligence service officer named Claude Dansey. As the United States prepared to ally itself in World War I with its old enemy Britain, Dansey personally reorganized the U.S. Army intelligence service into an adjunct of the British secret service. Dansey's loyal U.S. follower, {{Gen. Marlborough Churchill}} (a distant relative of Britain's Winston Churchill) soon became director of U.S. military intelligence. After World War I, General Churchill headed up the “Black Chamber,” a New York-based espionage group serving the State Department, the U.S. Army, and private New York financiers loyal to Great Britain. This same General Churchill would soon launch a medical research organization, the Macy Foundation, for the Rockefellers and British intelligence.

Continued... (http://www.actionlyme.org/BRITISH_PSYCHIATRY.htm)


The Most Famous and Notorious Insane Asylums in History
http://www.asylum.com/2010/02/02/famous-notorious-abandoned-haunted-insane-asylums/

[Brian4Liberty]

We should have learned lessons from that, but we never did. There are plenty of horror stories that came out of those institutions...most of them quietly swept under the rug. Electric shock treatment, forced lobotomies, cruel and inhumane treatment--oh yes, those were the days! :rolleyes: Now our CIA use these very tactics in their enhanced interrogations!!!

An elderly relative had a second husband that was in a few times (30 day?, 60 day?). He had the shock treatment. This was before SSRIs were commonly used. From descriptions, it sounded like a decent, hospital setting. He eventually hung himself. No gun necessary.

[itshappening]

Electro treatment is still used and in many countries against the will of the patient. Yes, they hold them down and carry it out in mental hospitals.

Many of the patients say it doesn't work, causes memory loss and makes their illness worse.

[kcchiefs6465]

You've been reading too much anti-psychiatry dreck. How do YOU know that they are rambunctious children or not? Are YOU certified? These diseases are real and life altering, drugs actually help more than harm.
I beg to differ. My sister can't even tie her damn shoes after said drugs. She twitches constantly, has spasms, and is in extreme pain. THAT is life altering. She may not have the brightest one in the room but at least she could wipe her own ass without being in excrutiating pain before the drugs. She was put on different drugs at the recommendation of doctors when she was around 7 years old. Diagnosed with schizophrenia soon after. Now she is practically comatose uttering pointless sentences until her spasms flare up and she writhes on the floor in pain. Blame Invegra. Seroquel, risperdal, depakote, clonazepine, thorazine, etc. Thank god I was rebellious and never took their ritalin and adderols. Their seroquels, and paxils. They lied to you. They know full goddamn well the dangers. Why do you think there are class actions suits? Facial dyskenesia, tremors, suicidal thoughts and tendencies. They trump up studies every damn time one of these new drugs come out. Paying the poor peanuts to engage in their little rat maze poison trials.

[pochy1776]

by Who??

:confused:

The AMA or APA would be a nice start.

[pcosmar]

The AMA or APA would be a nice start.

I'm sure there are records in which someone certified something.

Personally, I consider those to be Unethical, Biased, and unreliable.

[kcchiefs6465]

The AMA or APA would be a nice start.
I believe Eugene Dibble and Oliver Wenger were certified. As well as Robert Heath.

ETA: What psychotropic drugs are you taking? (I understand if you are uncomfortable answering) I only ask as to know which ones have been beneficial to you. Also to know which ones have been detrimental. (As they usually go by a trial and error methodology of prescribing SSRI's and other psychotropic drugs) Personally I would caution you to do independent research on substances you put into your body but if they are helping then more power to you. Xanax has helped my 'anxiety,' 'mood disorders,' and general world outlook. However I do know that the drug has many serious adverse consequences.

[pochy1776]

I believe Eugene Dibble and Oliver Wenger were certified. As well as Robert Heath.

ETA: What psychotropic drugs are you taking? (I understand if you are uncomfortable answering) I only ask as to know which ones have been beneficial to you. Also to know which ones have been detrimental. (As they usually go by a trial and error methodology of prescribing SSRI's and other psychotropic drugs) Personally I would caution you to do independent research on substances you put into your body but if they are helping then more power to you. Xanax has helped my 'anxiety,' 'mood disorders,' and general world outlook. However I do know that the drug has many serious adverse consequences.

Orap Pimozide, Helps with the ticks. A little weight gain is worth me ticking all over the fucking place. Took clinodine for some time but that did not work.
The drug i take is no longer manufactured but thanks to five dollar generics it isn't gone. The french company does not produce it. Also, what "independent research." The ones that alex jones pedals like the naturopath and ben fuchs?

[pochy1776]

Why are they unethical, unbiased and unreliable. What makes you think medicine is bad in the first place?

[pochy1776]

An elderly relative had a second husband that was in a few times (30 day?, 60 day?). He had the shock treatment. This was before SSRIs were commonly used. From descriptions, it sounded like a decent, hospital setting. He eventually hung himself. No gun necessary.

These days "shock therapy" or ECT, is used sparingly and actually works very well on the Manic depressed. Its kinda like booting up a computer.
There are alternatives. I suspect most of you have never seen a psychiatric facility nor even know any patients (other than family and close people.) Question to Donnay, what do you think of these blogs http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ and http://www.skepticblog.org/. And do you think Homeopathy works?

[donnay]

I believe Eugene Dibble and Oliver Wenger were certified. As well as Robert Heath.

ETA: What psychotropic drugs are you taking? (I understand if you are uncomfortable answering) I only ask as to know which ones have been beneficial to you. Also to know which ones have been detrimental. (As they usually go by a trial and error methodology of prescribing SSRI's and other psychotropic drugs) Personally I would caution you to do independent research on substances you put into your body but if they are helping then more power to you. Xanax has helped my 'anxiety,' 'mood disorders,' and general world outlook. However I do know that the drug has many serious adverse consequences.


Valerian root, Holy Basil, Catnip, Chamomile, Fennel, Kava Kava, L-Theanine is great for anxiety too. I prefer the natural remedies rather than pharmaceutical drugs that have a bazillion side effects.

[donnay]

These days "shock therapy" or ECT, is used sparingly and actually works very well on the Manic depressed. Its kinda like booting up a computer.
There are alternatives. I suspect most of you have never seen a psychiatric facility nor even know any patients (other than family and close people.) Question to Donnay, what do you think of these blogs http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ and http://www.skepticblog.org/. And do you think Homeopathy works?

First of all you have to learn to do your own research and then use discernment. You obvious didn't pay attention to what I posted earlier--the Rockefeller's and Carnegie's have had their fingerprints all over the deception in this country. Do you have any idea about the active eugenics programs in this country and who pushed it through?

Homeopathy works for me and for many people I know. Homeopathic (sectarian) medicine seeks to cure the person as a whole, not just the disease. Allopathic (Conventional) medicine seeks to treat the disease, not cure it. Sectarian medicine also embraced Grahamism (named after Sylvester Graham (1794–1851), who advocated proper nutrition and hygiene was the answer to fight off sickness and diseases.

[pochy1776]

First of all you have to learn to do your own research and then use discernment. You obvious didn't pay attention to what I posted earlier--the Rockefeller's and Carnegie's have had their fingerprints all over the deception in this country. Do you have any idea about the active eugenics programs in this country and who pushed it through?

Homeopathy works for me and for many people I know. Homeopathic (sectarian) medicine seeks to cure the person as a whole, not just the disease. Allopathic (Conventional) medicine seeks to treat the disease, not cure it. Sectarian medicine also embraced Grahamism (named after Sylvester Graham (1794–1851), who advocated proper nutrition and hygiene was the answer to fight off sickness and diseases.
Do you have a blog? Why don't you publish your findings?

[kcchiefs6465]

These days "shock therapy" or ECT, is used sparingly and actually works very well on the Manic depressed. Its kinda like booting up a computer.
Really? I would love to see the studies that show this. Would you propose bipolar disorder be treated with ECT?

There are alternatives.
Yes there are, aside from ECT and government subsidized drugs. In the case of my sister I would recommend medicinal marijuana. Though the ticks/spasms are most probably permanent, (she was generally healthy before the drugs she was put on) she will at least have some enjoyment between her spasms and ticks.


I suspect most of you have never seen a psychiatric facility nor even know any patients (other than family and close people.).....
The point is not if someone has seen a psychiatric facility, my sister practically lives in one. (I know you will say, "I said other than family and close people") I have been through their processes too many times. As a child I was put through their bullshit procedures. I am telling you, 'man to man,' do not be inclined to believe everything that is told to you.

And to add, no I don't mean Alex Jones or whoever else you mentioned. (I personally don't like his brand of news- THOUGH HE STILL SAYS RELEVANT FACTS FROM TIME TO TIME) I mean independant medical journals/studies that cut through the funding/mandated results.' (Hint: It's only mandated because of the conditions of the study)

[GunnyFreedom]

Right, it's all just speculation really. I'm more concerned about the root cause in general for these types of things. We just didn't have this happen to this degree many years back. Seems to be happening a lot more now, and I'd like to know why

The deadliest school murder in US History was the "Bath School Disaster" in May of 1927. With 45 dead, and 58 wounded. Three bombs.

[Qdog]

They put me on a serotonin reuptake inhibitor for my irritable bowel syndrome. It didn't help, and just made me depressed, and feel literally like a "zombie". I threw that crap away, and have been doing my best to manage the symptoms with diet.

[donnay]

Do you have a blog? Why don't you publish your findings?

Nope, no blog.

You had spoken about having tics and twitches--were you diagnosed with Tourette Syndrome?

I have read many independent studies that TS is a calcium, magnesium and B6 deficiency.


Sources:
http://7thspace.com/headlines/304982/new_therapeutic_approach_to_tourette_syndrome_in_c hildren_based_on_a_randomized_placebo_controlled_d ouble_blind_phase_iv_study_of_the_effectiveness_an d_safety_of_magnesium_and_vitamin_b6.html
http://www.ctds.info/tics.html
http://www.ctds.info/mgtourettes.html
http://www.trialsjournal.com/content/10/1/16
http://nutritionalmagnesium.org/news-press/30-press-release-1.html
http://www.nutritionalmagnesium.org/articles/magnesium-deficiency/300-magnesium-deficiency-diet-and-lifestyle.html?start=3
http://nutritionalmagnesium.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=179:magnesium-the-missing-health-supplement&catid=32:magnesium-deficiency&Itemid=40
http://www.krispin.com/magnes.html

[pcgame]

................

[GunnyFreedom]

DO NOT take this as an endorsement of EST because it IS NOT, by any stretch of the imagination. I would NEVER undergo it for any reason. Nor would I recommend anybody endure it.

However, that said, from what I understand the EST currently in use today is dramatically different from that of only 30 years ago. I understand that is it now used as low-grade stimulation of certain areas of the brain, and the patient (victim) doesn't even feel it.

I understand that 50 years ago, it was just random poking, and it hurt so badly that the patients (victims) wanted to die. Now, however, it is apparently (allegedly) completely different.

That is NOT an endorsement or a recommendation, it's just a desire to be accurate in all we say and do.

[osan]

I'm older, most of you folks don't remember this, but we used to have insane asylums and people were committed, either by their family or doctors when they weren't fit for living in society. In the 70's or so the liberals started closing these places, claiming it was inhuman to lock people away.

These weren't really bad places, just a place for people to live and keep them medicated and in check. We had a distant family member who was in one. These days though they just medicate people and let them live among the rest of us.

Not sure what the shooters issues were, if he had any, but with all these recent events - it makes guys like me think what might be different if people were locked up like they used to be.

I guess folks running about nude, feces and urine everywhere ain't that bad. That is what Willowbrook was like in the 70s. It was a house of horrors.

That aside - since when do the "mentally ill" have no rights? The label is so fluid these days as to have virtually no meaning in a great plurality of cases. A child throws a tantrum as they are at times wont to and they are declared as mentally ill. War veteran comes home and is withdrawn in the wake of years of horror. Mentally ill. Abused woman, after years of being beaten by her hubby or lesbo "man" escapes finally, and sits and cries for a week solid. Mentally ill. And today if you are mentally ill, your rights are attenuated such that other people claim the authority to physically detain you and force upon you endlessly dangerous compounds that alter you permanently at the most intimate biochemical level.

Yeah, sounds good to me.

[phill4paul]

I believe in gun rights. To anyone on the left I am a 'gun nut.' Crazy. Kooky. Mentally ill?

[squarepusher]

Newtown Shooter Had Asperger Syndrome, And Some US Gun Facts
Update: The focus now shifts to the mother, the first casualty of her son's murderous rampage, who was a "big, big gun fan" as the NYT explains, and who went target shooting with her children, one of whom had Asperger's.
From the NYT (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/nyregion/friends-of-gunmans-mother-his-first-victim-recall-her-as-generous.html?hp&_r=0#h[]):

She was “a big, big gun fan” who went target shooting with her children, according to friends. She enjoyed craft beers, jazz and landscaping. She was generous to strangers, but also high-strung, as if she were holding herself together.

Nancy Lanza was the first victim in a massacre carried out on Friday by her son Adam Lanza, 20, who shot her dead with a gun apparently drawn from her own collection, then drove her car to Sandy Hook Elementary School, where he killed 26 people, 20 of them small children, officials said.

At craft beer tastings on Tuesday evenings, he recalled, she liked to talk about her gun collection.

“She had several different guns,” he said. “I don’t know how many. She would go target shooting with her kids.”

Law enforcement officials said they believed that the guns were acquired lawfully and registered.

* * *

She was “a big, big gun fan,” he added on his Web site.
Read on here (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/nyregion/friends-of-gunmans-mother-his-first-victim-recall-her-as-generous.html)
* * *
As we reported last night (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-14/newton-ct-elementary-school-shooting-tally-rises-27-dead-whom-14-children), buried inside the NYT biopic (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/nyregion/adam-lanza-an-enigma-who-is-now-identified-as-a-mass-killer.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0)of Newtown shooter Adam Lanza was arguably one of the most important missing pieces in the story, at least so far, which could provide clues into partially explaining yesterday's tragic loss of young life, namely that the 20 year old man suffered from Asperger Syndrome, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome)a high-functioning form of autism (two conditions which are being merged in the upcoming update of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-5) manual of mental disorders (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/02/aspergers-syndrome-dropped-psychiatric-dsm)), which has been traditionally associated with social communication difficulties, including flat affect (http://www.specialed.us/autism/asper/asper11.html), and one which in some clinical studies has been shown to have a causal link to violence (http://www.jaapl.org/content/33/3/390.full). In other words, in addition to the surge in the debate over national gun control and access limitations (ignoring that the perpetrator of the biggest school mass murder in US history - the Bath School disaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster) - used openly purchased dynamite and no guns, also ignoring that in the US there are roughly 300 million firearms (http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp)), perhaps there should also be a broad discussion as to the risks of social misadoption of children with autism and other social and behavioral disorders.
From CBS/AP (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/12/14/newtown-school-shooting-who-is-adam-lanza/):

He was an honors student who lived in a prosperous neighborhood with his mother, a well-liked woman who enjoyed hosting dice games and decorating the house for the holidays.

Now Adam Lanza is suspected of killing his mother and then gunning down more than two dozen people, 20 of them children, at a Connecticut grade school before taking his own life.

The 20-year-old may have suffered from a personality disorder, law enforcement officials said.

The New York Times reported Saturday morning that several people told the newspaper that Lanza had Asperger’s syndrome, a high-functioning form of autism.

The Times reported Lanza did not have a Facebook page and did not pose for a high school yearbook picture.

He was described as socially awkward and was known in high school as “intelligent, but nervous and fidgety, spitting his words out, as if having to speak up were painful.”

Investigators were trying to learn as much as possible about Lanza and questioned his older brother, who is not believed to have any involvement in the rampage.

Lanza killed his mother at their home before driving her car to Sandy Hook Elementary School and — armed with at least two handguns — carried out the massacre, officials said.

A third weapon, a .223-caliber rifle, was found in the car, and more guns were found inside the school.

So far, authorities have not spoken publicly of any possible motive. Witnesses said the shooter didn’t utter a word.

Catherine Urso, who was attending a vigil Friday evening in Newtown, Conn., said her college-age son knew the killer and remembered him for his alternative style.

“He just said he was very thin, very remote and was one of the goths,” she said.

* * *

Adam Lanza’s older brother, 24-year-old Ryan Lanza of Hoboken, N.J., was being questioned, a law enforcement official said. He told authorities that his brother was believed to suffer from a personality disorder, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record about the unfolding investigation.

The official did not elaborate, and it was unclear exactly what type of disorder he might have had.

Ryan Lanza had been extremely cooperative and was not under arrest or in custody, but investigators were still searching his computers and phone records. Ryan Lanza told law enforcement he had not been in touch with his brother since about 2010.

* * *

Adam Lanza attended Newtown High School, and several local news clippings from recent years mention his name among the school’s honor roll students.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-15/newtown-shooter-had-asperger-syndrome-and-some-us-gun-facts

[squarepusher]

Newtown Shooter Had Asperger Syndrome, And Some US Gun Facts
Update: The focus now shifts to the mother, the first casualty of her son's murderous rampage, who was a "big, big gun fan" as the NYT explains, and who went target shooting with her children, one of whom had Asperger's.
From the NYT (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/nyregion/friends-of-gunmans-mother-his-first-victim-recall-her-as-generous.html?hp&_r=0#h[]):
She was “a big, big gun fan” who went target shooting with her children, according to friends. She enjoyed craft beers, jazz and landscaping. She was generous to strangers, but also high-strung, as if she were holding herself together.

Nancy Lanza was the first victim in a massacre carried out on Friday by her son Adam Lanza, 20, who shot her dead with a gun apparently drawn from her own collection, then drove her car to Sandy Hook Elementary School, where he killed 26 people, 20 of them small children, officials said.

At craft beer tastings on Tuesday evenings, he recalled, she liked to talk about her gun collection.

“She had several different guns,” he said. “I don’t know how many. She would go target shooting with her kids.”

Law enforcement officials said they believed that the guns were acquired lawfully and registered.

* * *

She was “a big, big gun fan,” he added on his Web site.

Read on here (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/nyregion/friends-of-gunmans-mother-his-first-victim-recall-her-as-generous.html)
* * *
As we reported last night (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-14/newton-ct-elementary-school-shooting-tally-rises-27-dead-whom-14-children), buried inside the NYT biopic (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/nyregion/adam-lanza-an-enigma-who-is-now-identified-as-a-mass-killer.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0)of Newtown shooter Adam Lanza was arguably one of the most important missing pieces in the story, at least so far, which could provide clues into partially explaining yesterday's tragic loss of young life, namely that the 20 year old man suffered from Asperger Syndrome, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome)a high-functioning form of autism (two conditions which are being merged in the upcoming update of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-5) manual of mental disorders (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/02/aspergers-syndrome-dropped-psychiatric-dsm)), which has been traditionally associated with social communication difficulties, including flat affect (http://www.specialed.us/autism/asper/asper11.html), and one which in some clinical studies has been shown to have a causal link to violence (http://www.jaapl.org/content/33/3/390.full). In other words, in addition to the surge in the debate over national gun control and access limitations (ignoring that the perpetrator of the biggest school mass murder in US history - the Bath School disaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster) - used openly purchased dynamite and no guns, also ignoring that in the US there are roughly 300 million firearms (http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp)), perhaps there should also be a broad discussion as to the risks of social misadoption of children with autism and other social and behavioral disorders.
From CBS/AP (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/12/14/newtown-school-shooting-who-is-adam-lanza/):
He was an honors student who lived in a prosperous neighborhood with his mother, a well-liked woman who enjoyed hosting dice games and decorating the house for the holidays.

Now Adam Lanza is suspected of killing his mother and then gunning down more than two dozen people, 20 of them children, at a Connecticut grade school before taking his own life.

The 20-year-old may have suffered from a personality disorder, law enforcement officials said.

The New York Times reported Saturday morning that several people told the newspaper that Lanza had Asperger’s syndrome, a high-functioning form of autism.

The Times reported Lanza did not have a Facebook page and did not pose for a high school yearbook picture.

He was described as socially awkward and was known in high school as “intelligent, but nervous and fidgety, spitting his words out, as if having to speak up were painful.”

Investigators were trying to learn as much as possible about Lanza and questioned his older brother, who is not believed to have any involvement in the rampage.

Lanza killed his mother at their home before driving her car to Sandy Hook Elementary School and — armed with at least two handguns — carried out the massacre, officials said.

A third weapon, a .223-caliber rifle, was found in the car, and more guns were found inside the school.

So far, authorities have not spoken publicly of any possible motive. Witnesses said the shooter didn’t utter a word.

Catherine Urso, who was attending a vigil Friday evening in Newtown, Conn., said her college-age son knew the killer and remembered him for his alternative style.

“He just said he was very thin, very remote and was one of the goths,” she said.

* * *

Adam Lanza’s older brother, 24-year-old Ryan Lanza of Hoboken, N.J., was being questioned, a law enforcement official said. He told authorities that his brother was believed to suffer from a personality disorder, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record about the unfolding investigation.

The official did not elaborate, and it was unclear exactly what type of disorder he might have had.

Ryan Lanza had been extremely cooperative and was not under arrest or in custody, but investigators were still searching his computers and phone records. Ryan Lanza told law enforcement he had not been in touch with his brother since about 2010.

* * *

Adam Lanza attended Newtown High School, and several local news clippings from recent years mention his name among the school’s honor roll students.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-15/newtown-shooter-had-asperger-syndrome-and-some-us-gun-facts

[tttppp]

Referring to the Asbugers article, that's one of those fake disorders made up by psychiatrists in my opinion. He was an honors student and was able to function properly. He should not have mental labels on him if he doesn't have mental problem setting him back.

[pochy1776]

Referring to the Asbugers article, that's one of those fake disorders made up by psychiatrists in my opinion. He was an honors student and was able to function properly. He should not have mental labels on him if he doesn't have mental problem setting him back.

A lot of Aspergers can be Honors students. in fact Aspies can be geniuses. How do you know he was able to function properly? How do you know the disease is made up? You do know that this disease affects people that can't do or say anything without having educational PATRIOT ACT on your fucking back. Every time some dip shit teacher telling you that "you can't do that" or you said something that people misinterpret or have to kiss the fucking ass of. Every time, everywhere the education system sees you, hears you, tries to use the cherished people against you, and tell you that your some sick guy who has good grades but just because you have social problems we have to hold you back or, hold you back and say dors will be open with your bullshit talking fucks rather than credentials and skill. So don't tell me its bullshit, thats just a slap in the face for every kid that has to have a personal patriot act down their fucking neck. The problem is not psychiatry or the aspergers. Its the stupid teachers, social workers, state systems and all that shitty jazz that impacts your life. "social skills" my fucking ass. I tell that ARGOFUCKYOURSELF

[pochy1776]

Nope, no blog.

You had spoken about having tics and twitches--were you diagnosed with Tourette Syndrome?

I have read many independent studies that TS is a calcium, magnesium and B6 deficiency.


Sources:
http://7thspace.com/headlines/304982/new_therapeutic_approach_to_tourette_syndrome_in_c hildren_based_on_a_randomized_placebo_controlled_d ouble_blind_phase_iv_study_of_the_effectiveness_an d_safety_of_magnesium_and_vitamin_b6.html
http://www.ctds.info/tics.html
http://www.ctds.info/mgtourettes.html
http://www.trialsjournal.com/content/10/1/16
http://nutritionalmagnesium.org/news-press/30-press-release-1.html
http://www.nutritionalmagnesium.org/articles/magnesium-deficiency/300-magnesium-deficiency-diet-and-lifestyle.html?start=3
http://nutritionalmagnesium.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=179:magnesium-the-missing-health-supplement&catid=32:magnesium-deficiency&Itemid=40
http://www.krispin.com/magnes.html

Yes, and it sucked. Royally.

[pcosmar]

LOL at the people trying to psychologically diagnose someone they had never met,, based on media reports that are changing.
And based on a Media known to lie profusely to serve agendas.

Honestly,, you don't know shit. (I don't either) I don't know if this guy was a victim who was manipulated into this.
Or a would be hero who tried to stop the event.

I do know ,,from those same reports,,that they are NOT the truth.

[pochy1776]

Really? I would love to see the studies that show this. Would you propose bipolar disorder be treated with ECT?

Yes there are, aside from ECT and government subsidized drugs. In the case of my sister I would recommend medicinal marijuana. Though the ticks/spasms are most probably permanent, (she was generally healthy before the drugs she was put on) she will at least have some enjoyment between her spasms and ticks.

The point is not if someone has seen a psychiatric facility, my sister practically lives in one. (I know you will say, "I said other than family and close people") I have been through their processes too many times. As a child I was put through their bullshit procedures. I am telling you, 'man to man,' do not be inclined to believe everything that is told to you.

And to add, no I don't mean Alex Jones or whoever else you mentioned. (I personally don't like his brand of news- THOUGH HE STILL SAYS RELEVANT FACTS FROM TIME TO TIME) I mean independant medical journals/studies that cut through the funding/mandated results.' (Hint: It's only mandated because of the conditions of the study)

Depends. Need to know the case. File, Differential diagnosis, Psych Consult. The bureaucratic hospital stuff.

How are they "government subsidized" Unless it is NIH or state hospitals WHich then you are right.

What independent medical journals? in would like to know.

[romacox]

Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on
a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, his mother wrote these words : http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

[erowe1]

Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on
a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, his mother wrote these words : http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

Did you read it? It's written by Liza Long, a mother of another child (a 13-year-old) with a mental disability. When she says she's Adam Lanza's mother, she's speaking figuratively.

[pochy1776]

LOL at the people trying to psychologically diagnose someone they had never met,, based on media reports that are changing.
And based on a Media known to lie profusely to serve agendas.

Honestly,, you don't know shit. (I don't either) I don't know if this guy was a victim who was manipulated into this.
Or a would be hero who tried to stop the event.

I do know ,,from those same reports,,that they are NOT the truth.

Some assholes in the news forget the goldwater rule.

[tttppp]

A lot of Aspergers can be Honors students. in fact Aspies can be geniuses. How do you know he was able to function properly? How do you know the disease is made up? You do know that this disease affects people that can't do or say anything without having educational PATRIOT ACT on your fucking back. Every time some dip shit teacher telling you that "you can't do that" or you said something that people misinterpret or have to kiss the fucking ass of. Every time, everywhere the education system sees you, hears you, tries to use the cherished people against you, and tell you that your some sick guy who has good grades but just because you have social problems we have to hold you back or, hold you back and say dors will be open with your bullshit talking fucks rather than credentials and skill. So don't tell me its bullshit, thats just a slap in the face for every kid that has to have a personal patriot act down their fucking neck. The problem is not psychiatry or the aspergers. Its the stupid teachers, social workers, state systems and all that shitty jazz that impacts your life. "social skills" my fucking ass. I tell that ARGOFUCKYOURSELF

It said in that article that he was an honors student. So most likely he was functioning well, maybe better than your average kid. My point is why label these kids with these problems when they can function. Telling a kid he has a debilitating disease doesn't help him unless you teach him to overcome it. Or else it just becomes a crutch for them. Nobody likes being told they have a screw loose their whole life, especially when they probably don't.

[pochy1776]

It said in that article that he was an honors student. So most likely he was functioning well, maybe better than your average kid. My point is why label these kids with these problems when they can function. Telling a kid he has a debilitating disease doesn't help him unless you teach him to overcome it. Or else it just becomes a crutch for them. Nobody likes being told they have a screw loose their whole life, especially when they probably don't.

You do have a fucking point. Like i said, a lot of honors students do have aspergers. The problem is that people want them to shed off something that defines them. WHether it is good or not is immaterial. The sucky thing is that the news forgot the goldwater rule.

[donnay]

LOL at the people trying to psychologically diagnose someone they had never met,, based on media reports that are changing.
And based on a Media known to lie profusely to serve agendas.

Honestly,, you don't know shit. (I don't either) I don't know if this guy was a victim who was manipulated into this.
Or a would be hero who tried to stop the event.

I do know ,,from those same reports,,that they are NOT the truth.

It has been my experience the very people shouting that someone is mentally ill are the ones who are mentally ill. Look throughout history all the Totalitarians who were mentally ill.

http://rexcurry.net/mental-illness-psychopaths-sociopaths-socialists-insanity.html

[Brian4Liberty]

http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother


Did you read it? It's written by Liza Long, a mother of another child (a 13-year-old) with a mental disability. When she says she's Adam Lanza's mother, she's speaking figuratively.

Interesting article.

- the variety of disorders described is relatively common. Yes, these shooters were crazy and showed signs, but that in no way means that other people will do the same thing. Collectivist, pre-crime "solutions" are a real danger. No one can predict the future. What solutions will our brilliant politicians come up with?

- Speaking of solutions, the medical system is so messed up when it comes to this. Nothing but drug prescribing experiments. 5 minute medicine.

[donnay]

Yes, and it sucked. Royally.


It is incumbent upon you to make it not suck. Do your own research!

[pochy1776]

It is incumbent upon you to make it not suck. Do your own research!

Where shall i go great danno.

[Deborah K]

Yes, the whole Ryan Lanza facebook thing was a great diversion.



I just think that was bad investigative journalism and the media jumping the gun. Good thing the "goddamn detectives" dug a little deeper into it. They were the first ones to uncover the irresponsibility of the media.

[squarepusher]

Interesting article.

- the variety of disorders described is relatively common. Yes, these shooters were crazy and showed signs, but that in no way means that other people will do the same thing. Collectivist, pre-crime "solutions" are a real danger. No one can predict the future. What solutions will our brilliant politicians come up with?

- Speaking of solutions, the medical system is so messed up when it comes to this. Nothing but drug prescribing experiments. 5 minute medicine.

The article was interesting, but I doubt it was many similarities to Adam Lanza. Her son sounds like he has a long history of behavioral problems, mental hospital visits, and police 9-11 calls. Adam Lanza I believe, who was a loner, as well as the Colorado Batman shooter , did not have a history of violence or police encounters. Their "break" was their first violent outburst, before that they were considered just 'weird' and detached/flat.

If he did have a history of violence, I'm sure all weapons would have been restricted to him (if you read the article the mom says she hides all sharp objects in tupperware and takes them with her).

[pcosmar]

Their "break" was their first violent outburst,



And they are already convicted of a crime,, with no real evidence presented. (Tried by the Media)

I would like to see ballistic evidence. Who was shot with which guns. (Was anybody shot with the guns he had)
How many .223 cases were recovered. etc.

Too many things in yet another case that leave more questions than answers.

[nicname]

I a person shoots up a grade school after killing his own mother, then yes, that person is mentally ill. Autism, Asberger's aren't made up. ADD, bi-polar and the rest aren't made up. The problem is the way people who suffer from these kinds of illnesses are treated, and the over-diagnoses of regular people that probably aren't suffering from a serious mental illness.

[bolil]

Here's the catch, who "mentally well" right now will always remain so? Can anyone tell me? Is it someone that dresses a certain way, or thinks, or votes? Seems like mental illness deserves a very broad definition. I bite my fingernails, am I mentally ill? I like the smell of my own farts, am I mentally ill? Negative, sad thing about crime is that it requires victims. Sad thing about victims: they are ridden like horses, and once their purpose is fulfilled they are thrown aside and slaughtered for their meat and hooves. Remember animal farm?

[squarepusher]

And they are already convicted of a crime,, with no real evidence presented. (Tried by the Media)

I would like to see ballistic evidence. Who was shot with which guns. (Was anybody shot with the guns he had)
How many .223 cases were recovered. etc.

Too many things in yet another case that leave more questions than answers.

ok, MKULTRA experiment setup by government to ban you guns? Do you have any evidence for your theory other than blanket mistrust and disgust for the government?

[ClydeCoulter]

Are there any witnesses that SAW the guy do the shooting? Okay, there's a dead guy on the floor...did anyone actually see him shoot anyone?

[pcosmar]

ok, MKULTRA experiment setup by government to ban you guns? Do you have any evidence for your theory other than blanket mistrust and disgust for the government?

"my Guns" are already banned. I am disarmed.

And yes,, I have quite a lot of evidence to mistrust the government.

I also can pull up a lot of evidence of Media Lies and Manipulation.

[pcosmar]

Are there any witnesses that SAW the guy do the shooting? Okay, there's a dead guy on the floor...did anyone actually see him shoot anyone?

Not that I know of.
But somehow the police and media was reporting 3 dead including the shooter and the .223 rifle (that was in the trunk of a car)
BUT COULDN'T COUNT THE REST OF THE BODIES IN THE ROOM.

Several things in this store do not make any kind of logical sense.(the way the story is told)

[ClydeCoulter]

Not that I know of.
But somehow the police and media was reporting 3 dead including the shooter and the .223 rifle (that was in the trunk of a car)
BUT COULDN'T COUNT THE REST OF THE BODIES IN THE ROOM.

Several things in this store do not make any kind of logical sense.(the way the story is told)

From what I've gathered, he had 2 handguns (9mm) next to him, and a .223 was found in the back seat or trunk (I think I saw video of it being removed from the back seat).

Were there witnesses that actually saw the FACE of the perp at the batman movie episode (at the time of the shooting)?

[pcosmar]

From what I've gathered, he had 2 handguns (9mm) next to him, and a .223 was found in the back seat or trunk (I think I saw video of it being removed from the back seat).
That is what I have heard.
But I also heard the police spokesman say the a .223 was involved,, and that was before his car had been searched, they also were looking for a second shooter. (and one was arrested)


Were there witnesses that actually saw the FACE of the perp at the batman movie episode (at the time of the shooting)?

That would be impossible.. if he was wearing a gas mask as reported. Though who was wearing the second gas mask is still a puzzle.

[squarepusher]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistics


But you are free to believe whatever you want regardless of evidence, thats what's great about this country! (at least for now lol!)

[ClydeCoulter]

That is what I have heard.
But I also heard the police spokesman say the a .223 was involved,, and that was before his car had been searched, they also were looking for a second shooter. (and one was arrested)



That would be impossible.. if he was wearing a gas mask as reported. Though who was wearing the second gas mask is still a puzzle.

Who was wearing the first gas mask? Anyone see him take it off?

[pcosmar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistics


But you are free to believe whatever you want regardless of evidence, thats what's great about this country! (at least for now lol!)

I understand ballistics. Which is why I would like to know if those kids were killed by .223 bullet fragments.
I would like to know which of the adults were killed with which guns,, or if there were other bullets from another gun.

I would like to know exactly what substances (if any) were in the kid.

I can easily think of two or three ways this could have gone down.. But this bullshit story smacks of a coverup.

I will just throw one out,, Pure speculation. and I could easily think of a couple more,, (This is why trials present evidence)

the kid hears about some incident at the school. (Teacher abusing kids,, or his mom) and goes to confront the individual.
Takes his moms guns to make the point and threat serious.

Altercation ensues and police arrive,, SWAT assaults the school,, or some dumb goon trips over his dick and sprays the kinder garden.
Maybe shoot a couple of adults by accident or to cover their asses.

Dead kid gets blamed.

[squarepusher]

I understand ballistics. Which is why I would like to know if those kids were killed by .223 bullet fragments.
I would like to know which of the adults were killed with which guns,, or if there were other bullets from another gun.

I would like to know exactly what substances (if any) were in the kid.

I can easily think of two or three ways this could have gone down.. But this bullshit story smacks of a coverup.

I will just throw one out,, Pure speculation. and I could easily think of a couple more,, (This is why trials present evidence)

the kid hears about some incident at the school. (Teacher abusing kids,, or his mom) and goes to confront the individual.
Takes his moms guns to make the point and threat serious.

Altercation ensues and police arrive,, SWAT assaults the school,, or some dumb goon trips over his dick and sprays the kinder garden.
Maybe shoot a couple of adults by accident or to cover their asses.

Dead kid gets blamed.

Would require a massive coverup with first responders, medics, doctors, forensics, FBI, law enforcement, etc...

Maybe all these people are coordinating a plan to in fact cover something up and you are right. Or maybe the principal at the school was the one to actually do all the shootings, and this was a huge coverup. Or maybe, etc....

[pcosmar]

Would require a massive coverup with first responders, medics, doctors, forensics, FBI, law enforcement, etc...


Why?
police prevent anyone from entering,till they have their story.

The dead guy killed them all,, and no one is going to risk their pension and life to say otherwise.
Any that is contrary will have a tragic accident. (Nurse in Aurora?)

Shit,, They covered up the Oklahoma City Bombing.