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Anti Federalist
12-13-2012, 03:57 PM
Bad Boy!

December 12, 2012

By eric

http://ericpetersautos.com/2012/12/12/bad-boy/

When I leave my gym, there’s a red light at the intersection that literally takes five minutes to change. Often, it will skip the green arrow for people waiting to make a left turn from the side street (that’s me). You are supposed to wait for the next cycle. Another five minutes away. I routinely “run” (that is, ignore) this light. With my V1 radar detector on to screen for road tax collectors, I make sure the traffic is clear in either direction and just… go.
I mean, why not?

There is no reason not to – other than deferring to the conditioning that tells you to obey.

If there is clearly no traffic coming, if it is therefore objectively safe to proceed, why just sit there like a well-trained German Shepard? Unless that’s what we’re supposed to be, of course.

Which of course, we are supposed to be – and punished if we’re not.

If a road tax collector happens to see me perform this maneuver, he will “cite” me not for causing any harm but rather for my failure to …. sit there like a well-trained German Shepard. Because I did not obey my master’s voice. It will actually state this explicitly on the form itself and later, in court – though not using the same phraseology. The “defendant” – aka, the German Shepard – will be scolded for having done Thus and So against the strictures of the traffic code. Which is the equivalent, in two-legged terms, of being told bad boy! and swatted across the snout for climbing onto the sofa.

Are you sick of being swatted across the snout by your master?

I am, too.

Which is why I routinely ignore his “voice” – his edicts and commands. His rules and regulations. As much as I can possibly get away with. For two reasons:

First – for the almost erotic satisfaction that comes from getting away with it. It is like successfully kicking a bully in the nuts. It feels good to be bad – when “bad” is nothing more than exercising your own mind’s judgment rather than shutting it off in deference to the judgment (often arbitrary, not infrequently ridiculous) of faceless others who presume they know best, that you are an idiot – and must be treated accordingly.

As Seinfeld once put it, "Who are these people?"

And why must we fear and obey them?

If you are right – and “the law” is demonstrably wrong – why (leaving the possibility of potential punishment aside) obey?

It’s mindless – literally, devoid of mind – to obey for the sake of obeying. When you know there’s no reason to obey – other than “just because,” or “it’s the law.” There is nothing intrinsically wrong with disobeying “the law” – and often, a great deal to be said in favor of so doing. It’s something most people never think about, but really ought to. No, more than that. It is essential for them to consider the difference between “the law” – and right or wrong. That “legal” does not necessarily mean right. And just as important, that “illegal” does not necessarily mean wrong.

We are not talking about moral transgressions here – things such as taking what’s not yours, or causing others harm. A fully functioning human being does not require his master’s voice to refrain from such. Because his inner voice – his own moral sense – tells him not to. For good reason. Because it is wrong. Not “just because” or “it’s the law.”

The second reason is far more subversive: To show others it can be done – and so encourage them to do it, too. To get them thinking… to get the wheels turning… figuratively as much as literally.

(Why I always "Opt Out as well - AF)

That red light at the gym I routinely “run,” for instance. Others seem to be running it, too. The average person seems to need an example – someone else to do it first before he will risk the attempt himself. Submission conditioning is more (or less) effective on some people than it is on others. But if you show the way… show that it can be done… and far more important, show that it is stupid not to to do it – odds are good you’ll at least get others more conditioned to submission to think rather than blindly submit. The guy waiting behind me at the light will see no harm or chaos resulted from me “running” the light. It may – and hopefully will – arouse annoyance in him. Not at me – but at the idiocy of just sitting there, wasting gas and time… because a light is red. Not because there is cross traffic. Not because it isn’t “safe” to proceed.

But because a light is red.

This is how animals are conditioned.

Men – human beings – are supposed to be defined by their capacity to think. To use reason, to exercise judgment.

It’s time for more of us to begin acting that way – and show others they can, too.

(Far, far, far, past time - AF)

Traffic law – one form of his master’s voice – is merely a good place to start.

Throw it in the Woods.

jcannon98188
12-13-2012, 03:59 PM
Amen.

Dr.3D
12-13-2012, 04:11 PM
Yeah, when I was on my way to work in the morning at around 4 oclock, I used to have to wait at traffic lights where there was nobody around except me. I used to stop and then proceed through the intersection on a red light just about every day. The street tax people never did stop me. Guess I was lucky.

presence
12-13-2012, 04:12 PM
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Brian4Liberty
12-13-2012, 04:34 PM
Traffic lights are a pet peeve. All of the concern about oil and gasoline, and we have a system that does it's best to waste energy. Accelerate, and then hit the brakes for a traffic light. All that momentum is lost. And how much time do cars sit idling at lights?

How many times do you sit at a light for a minute or more, only to have the light turn green for you, right as a mass of cars finally comes down the street and then they have to stop? The lights seem to be timed to maximize the time that cars will idle at lights. They stay green until cars come, then turn red. :rolleyes:

Dr.3D
12-13-2012, 04:38 PM
Traffic lights are a pet peeve. All of the concern about oil and gasoline, and we have a system that does it's best to waste energy. Accelerate, and then hit the brakes for a traffic light. All that momentum is lost. And how much time do cars sit idling at lights?

How many times do you sit at a light for a minute or more, only to have the light turn green for you, right as a mass of cars finally comes down the street and then they have to stop? The lights seem to be timed to maximize the time that cars will idle at lights. They stay green until cars come, then turn red. :rolleyes:
I remember back in the '60s some states had some wonderful "smart traffic lights". They had sensors to count how many cars were coming from all four directions and would change the signal accordingly. If the government really wants to save energy, those "smart traffic lights" would be all over the place now.

AGRP
12-13-2012, 04:44 PM
People like lights. They dont require them to think.

FrancisMarion
12-13-2012, 04:46 PM
makes sense to me.

just a few months ago I had one of those suburban ordinance cops come by as I was bucking a rather large tree on my property with my husqy (orange saw is superior). Anyway, you are not suppose to cut down trees larger than 6" in dia without permission. Well it was bigger than that. They came by in their truck and could see me in the back yard. I was sweaty, dirty carhartt's, black tee, and saw chip covered. Well when they stopped on the street, I looked at them and gave a few revs. I saw them ponder, and then leave. That is good satisfaction.

I must admit I have more courage when I'm wearing my steel toe boots.

Czolgosz
12-13-2012, 04:48 PM
Unless you're violating somebody else' rights, disobey.

kcchiefs6465
12-13-2012, 04:56 PM
Well, my license situation being what it is, and not having the extra cash lying around to pay the fines, I usually obey all traffic laws. I actually use a turn signal to pull into my driveway, even when there is clearly no one behind me. It is not that I am conditioned by anyone against my will to do these things (though, I've conditioned myself) I just do not have the time, money, and points available for another court case. Another reason is everytime I get stopped my car is ripped to shreds for weed seeds and empty bags. (Yes, I object everytime. They find probable cause in one of two ways- one, they say they smell marijuana though I have not smoked cannabis in well over a year, or two, they bring a drug dog in that wants to please his owner so much that he sits on command.. or rather the subtleties that his trainer may not even know he's doing. Either way I'm detained for half an hour while their throw my shit about the dirt and rip my seats apart. It's happened a few times.) I must admit though, when my driving situation was legit and I saw a quarter miles worth of flashing lights ahead of me (DUI checkpoint) I lead deputies on a chase of sorts. They have a squadron of cars lined up for those who try to avoid the checkpoint assuming they are under the influence or un"priviliged" enough to not have a license. So I U-turn and hit the first of a few one-car-lane alleys that l know like the back of my hand as I see a closer set of lights approaching at a high rate of speed. Left, right, left, right, right, left etc. kicking up gravel every turn and I lose this pig in the dust. There really is no thrill like it. Not going to lie and say that if he got close enough to read my plates I would not pull over because I would. I would then explain to him that I was not evading I just had dinner in the oven and did not have the time to sit through a fifty car line of people waiting to be breathalyzed. Hell, at least I'd jump to front of the line had I been caught.

heavenlyboy34
12-13-2012, 05:05 PM
But...if people don't obey teh masters' laws, there will be ANARCHY!! OH NOES!!! ;)

dannno
12-13-2012, 05:08 PM
Adam Carolla is a really huge proponent of running red lights and actually will keep the dealer plates on his car for years just so he can run the ones with cameras without getting a ticket.

He drives really nice cars and has never been given a hard time for keeping the dealer plates on. He keeps the state plates in the trunk.

Lucille
12-13-2012, 05:10 PM
One night I was picking up my kid late from work, and I came to a stop sign. There was only one other car on the street, and it was on the other side of the intersection. Neither of us were turning, and I laughed out loud wondering why we were both stopped. It seemed so absurd to me, both of us sitting there. But I knew if there was a cop lurking, I would have gotten a ticket even though there was no risk to "public safety."

As reprehensible as Dondero is, he told the funniest story about Ron. Ron used to like to drive around rural Texas speeding like a bat out of hell, with no seat belt, laughing the whole time. I love that man!

"That’s the first sign you know you’re a libertarian. You see the red light. You stop. You realize that there’s not a car in sight. And you put your foot on the gas."
– Gary Johnson

dannno
12-13-2012, 05:11 PM
Adam Carolla, ladies and gentlemen:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5gmmlDezes

youngbuck
12-13-2012, 05:25 PM
The problem with red lights not changing is especially bad if you ride a motorcycle (like I do). Sometimes you can see the sensor cut-out lines in the pavement that need to be magnetically triggered, and sometimes you can't. If you can see them, you put your motorcycle over one of the lines, or a junction of the the lines, as much as possible. But no lines, you just have to guess. If this doesn't work, and the light isn't on a timer, then it'll never change. I had to get used to running red lights because of this. The acceleration of a motorcycle really helps when trying to quickly cross an intersection :D

Czolgosz
12-13-2012, 05:54 PM
Well, my license situation being what it is, and not having the extra cash lying around to pay the fines, I usually obey all traffic laws. I actually use a turn signal to pull into my driveway, even when there is clearly no one behind me. It is not that I am conditioned by anyone against my will to do these things (though, I've conditioned myself) I just do not have the time, money, and points available for another court case. Another reason is everytime I get stopped my car is ripped to shreds for weed seeds and empty bags. (Yes, I object everytime. They find probable cause in one of two ways- one, they say they smell marijuana though I have not smoked cannabis in well over a year, or two, they bring a drug dog in that wants to please his owner so much that he sits on command.. or rather the subtleties that his trainer may not even know he's doing. Either way I'm detained for half an hour while their throw my shit about the dirt and rip my seats apart. It's happened a few times.) I must admit though, when my driving situation was legit and I saw a quarter miles worth of flashing lights ahead of me (DUI checkpoint) I lead deputies on a chase of sorts. They have a squadron of cars lined up for those who try to avoid the checkpoint assuming they are under the influence or un"priviliged" enough to not have a license. So I U-turn and hit the first of a few one-car-lane alleys that l know like the back of my hand as I see a closer set of lights approaching at a high rate of speed. Left, right, left, right, right, left etc. kicking up gravel every turn and I lose this pig in the dust. There really is no thrill like it. Not going to lie and say that if he got close enough to read my plates I would not pull over because I would. I would then explain to him that I was not evading I just had dinner in the oven and did not have the time to sit through a fifty car line of people waiting to be breathalyzed. Hell, at least I'd jump to front of the line had I been caught.


You may have noticed in some of the videos where dudes reserve their rights and don't consent to anything, they tend to put their window down about an inch or two. This may help you with the "I smell drugs" bullshit.

NCGOPer_for_Paul
12-13-2012, 06:00 PM
In NC, if there are no oncoming vehicles and it is safe to proceed, and you have been waiting a while for the light to change, you may "run" the red.

coastie
12-13-2012, 06:11 PM
Do it all the time. Had a light just the other day change 3 times for every other lane but mine. I'm surprised I even got to the second time.

Kylie
12-13-2012, 06:12 PM
The problem with red lights not changing is especially bad if you ride a motorcycle (like I do). Sometimes you can see the sensor cut-out lines in the pavement that need to be magnetically triggered, and sometimes you can't. If you can see them, you put your motorcycle over one of the lines, or a junction of the the lines, as much as possible. But no lines, you just have to guess. If this doesn't work, and the light isn't on a timer, then it'll never change. I had to get used to running red lights because of this. The acceleration of a motorcycle really helps when trying to quickly cross an intersection :D


Yes. This is one of my peeves of having those sensors. You'd have to wait until a car pulled up in order to trigger the lights.

And bonus of riding "crotch rockets" was that when the cops did flick their lights on, all you had to do was give it three clicks on the gear shift and they could never catch you. We did that one day. Were out joyriding, barhopping, and kept having one county cop find us everytime we left another bar. We would drop the gears and speed off, stopping at the next bar. We'd have a beer, then get back on heading for another bar 20 or so miles away, and out of nowhere that damned cop would show up again. So we'd drop it a few and run off from him again. Next bar, same thing. This went on the whole day. We hit maybe 5-6 bars in 7-8 hours, and everytime that cop would come out for the chase. And everytime we walked away from him.

We didn't know until we got home that it had actually been 6 county cops after us. We did nothing wrong, weren't drunk, and broke no laws other than not stopping and speeding away. Grandma had called us several times to yell at us(she listened to the police scanner all the time and heard our day of fun). If we had actually done something wrong, we may have actually stopped. But fuck that. You just want to hassle us. And we're not about being hassled by the man.

I can't count how many times something like this happened while we were riding. Made for some very good stories! And the adreneline rush was better than running a 180 mph pass. I miss those days. :)

coastie
12-13-2012, 06:16 PM
Yes. This is one of my peeves of having those sensors. You'd have to wait until a car pulled up in order to trigger the lights.

And bonus of riding "crotch rockets" was that when the cops did flick their lights on, all you had to do was give it three clicks on the gear shift and they could never catch you. We did that one day. Were out joyriding, barhopping, and kept having one county cop find us everytime we left another bar. We would drop the gears and speed off, stopping at the next bar. We'd have a beer, then get back on heading for another bar 20 or so miles away, and out of nowhere that damned cop would show up again. So we'd drop it a few and run off from him again. Next bar, same thing. This went on the whole day. We hit maybe 5-6 bars in 7-8 hours, and everytime that cop would come out for the chase. And everytime we walked away from him.

We didn't know until we got home that it had actually been 6 county cops after us. We did nothing wrong, weren't drunk, and broke no laws other than not stopping and speeding away. Grandma had called us several times to yell at us(she listened to the police scanner all the time and heard our day of fun). If we had actually done something wrong, we may have actually stopped. But fuck that. You just want to hassle us. And we're not about being hassled by the man.

I can't count how many times something like this happened while we were riding. Made for some very good stories! And the adreneline rush was better than running a 180 mph pass. I miss those days. :)

Yeah, when my Hunduh Civic was still turbo'd, I did the same thing. Not barhopping, mind you, but I've dropped her down a gear or two and left the area when I saw one turn around on me(for nothing, usually). I miss those days...and me turbo.:(

Anti Federalist
12-13-2012, 06:23 PM
makes sense to me.

just a few months ago I had one of those suburban ordinance cops come by as I was bucking a rather large tree on my property with my husqy (orange saw is superior). Anyway, you are not suppose to cut down trees larger than 6" in dia without permission. Well it was bigger than that. They came by in their truck and could see me in the back yard. I was sweaty, dirty carhartt's, black tee, and saw chip covered. Well when they stopped on the street, I looked at them and gave a few revs. I saw them ponder, and then leave. That is good satisfaction.

I must admit I have more courage when I'm wearing my steel toe boots.

Stihl is better.

But wait...wut???

WTF do you live, that you have to get permission from the cops to cut down a tree over 6 inches????

dusman
12-13-2012, 07:01 PM
When I was deployed to South Korea, I discovered that they had the most unusual traffic law system. Commercial motor vehicles were required to stop at lights, while private automobiles could freely run through red lights - if it was safe to cross. U.S. military vehicles were required to stop as well and it became a major annoyance, because our convoy would constantly have to stop at these lights while everyone else just passed right through them. At the time, I didn't understand it and then in the past few years, I've come to better understand why.

From how I understand it, South Korea adopted our traffic law system and applied it STRICTLY by our own definitions. In U.S. Code, motor vehicles are defined as only those that are commercial. Essentially, the Motor Vehicle Act and all state statutes by definition are only applicable if you are driving in a commercial capacity (freight, transit, etc.).

Further, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled on a similar issue, in regards to an American's right to travel. They explained that the state cannot remove the privilege of a person driving in their automobile due to not having a license or insurance, because in fact it is your right to do so.

If anyone is curious in these, I can dig up the cases and corresponding U.S. Code.

heavenlyboy34
12-13-2012, 07:06 PM
When I was deployed to South Korea, I discovered that they had the most unusual traffic law system. Commercial motor vehicles were required to stop at lights, while private automobiles could freely run through red lights - if it was safe to cross. U.S. military vehicles were required to stop as well and it became a major annoyance, because our convoy would constantly have to stop at these lights while everyone else just passed right through them. At the time, I didn't understand it and then in the past few years, I've come to better understand why.

From how I understand it, South Korea adopted our traffic law system and applied it STRICTLY by our own definitions. In U.S. Code, motor vehicles are defined as only those that are commercial. Essentially, the Motor Vehicle Act and all state statutes by definition are only applicable if you are driving in a commercial capacity (freight, transit, etc.).

Further, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled on a similar issue, in regards to an American's right to travel. They explained that the state cannot remove the privilege of a person driving in their automobile due to not having a license or insurance, because in fact it is your right to do so.

If anyone is curious in these, I can dig up the cases and corresponding U.S. Code.
I would appreciate that. :cool:

FrancisMarion
12-13-2012, 07:40 PM
Stihl is better.

But wait...wut???

WTF do you live, that you have to get permission from the cops to cut down a tree over 6 inches????

Haha. Knew somebody was going to come out with Stihl. Glad it was you.


Revisions to the City's Tree Ordinance
posted Apr 4, 2009 1:15 PM by Marie Sligh [ updated Apr 4, 2009 1:19 PM ]
A message from the City Planning Department:

The North Charleston City Council has just adopted a major revision to the City’s Tree Protection Ordinance (to see the ordinance, click here). This Ordinance was updated in connection with the update of our Comprehensive Plan and also responded to concerns from our City Council. The major changes are outlined below.

Expands protection from 10” dbh to 8” dbh.
Lowers the threshold for Grand trees from 25” dbh to 24” dbh.
Introduces the terms Protected Trees (any tree 8” dbh or greater), Significant Trees (8” dbh to 23” dbh) and Grand Trees (24” dbh and greater).
Specifies requirements for tree replacement plans and call out various forms of possible replacement such a s new planting, existing on-site mitigation trees, relocated trees, and tree bank contributions.
Specifies requirements for tree protection plan detail as an element of the site plan submittal.
Addresses the cutting and replacement of Significant Trees and adds trees falling in the footprint of drainage ponds to list of types of cutting that do not require replacement for Significant Trees.
Addresses the cutting and replacement of Grand Trees, excludes Pine from definition of Grand Trees.
Addresses the need for tree protection, specifies minimum standards, and establishes administrative authority to allow drip-line encroachment equivalent to one quarter the distance from the trunk to the drip-line contingent upon confirmation from an Arborist that the proposed encroachment would not adversely impact the tree.
Establishes an administrative bonding procedure that would allow up to $50,000 in landscaping improvements to be bonded. The funds or bond instruments would be handled by the Finance Director.
Provides an exemption for cutting associated with Utility Company easement maintenance.
Addresses cutting without a permit with inch for inch replacement, a potential fine per tree cut and/or up to 30 days in jail.


I would like to invite you to review this Ordinance at your leisure and keep it in mind whenever doing work in the City of North Charleston. Please feel free to contact me should you have any comments or concerns regarding this Ordinance.

Sincerely,
William B. Gore
Zoning Administrator

http://www.ourdeerpark.net/news-2/revisionstothecitystreeordinance

So it was 8" instead of 6", besides the point.



Cutting down trees costs North Charleston man $20,000

Source: WCSC Source: WCSC
North Charleston, SC -

NORTH CHARLESTON,SC (WCSC) - Carlton Walker is still furious over having to pay $20,000 in fines for illegally cutting down trees and having grass grow too high on his property.

Walker says his family has owned the Deerwood Mobile Park since 1946 and never knew of the tree cutting ordinance. He says he cut the trees in 2008 before tropical storm Hanna.

Walker's attorney, Joe Good, feels it was an honest mistake gone terribly wrong.

"It just brings about the issue of excessive code violations and fines," Good said.

Derk Van Raalte, the deputy city attorney of North Charleston, said Walker could have made things easier on himself had he paid the reduced fine amount of $50 instead of the almost $1,100 per tree.

Van Raalte says the city has tried to work out a deal with Walker, but he never followed through with the conditions they set.

Walker says he paid the $20,000 in fines, but is looking at filing a motion to reopen the case in an effort to try and get some of the money back.

Van Raalte says the city of North Charleston as well as many local governments have a tree protection ordinance in place. Citizens should consult with their local planning and zoning department before ever cutting a tree.

Copyright 2010 WCSC. All rights reserved.

thoughtomator
12-13-2012, 07:59 PM
I remember back in the '60s some states had some wonderful "smart traffic lights". They had sensors to count how many cars were coming from all four directions and would change the signal accordingly. If the government really wants to save energy, those "smart traffic lights" would be all over the place now.

We have those here in Virginia. They are eminently sensible devices and avoid the sitting at an empty intersection problem quite neatly.

coastie
12-13-2012, 08:02 PM
Stihl is better.

But wait...wut???

WTF do you live, that you have to get permission from the cops to cut down a tree over 6 inches????

Its like that here in Florida, too. Even for the pine trees, which grow like fucking weeds around here.

kcchiefs6465
12-13-2012, 08:10 PM
We have those here in Virginia. They are eminently sensible devices and avoid the sitting at an empty intersection problem quite neatly.
We have them at virtually every intersection here. One problem I have with a certain traffic light is that the left turn light is only by sensor. Say you arrive moments after the side intersection light turns red. Across from you will have a green left turn light or green light you will not. You literally have to wait for the next cycle even though the cars across from you are turning left/going straight.

AFPVet
12-13-2012, 08:21 PM
Traffic lights are for traffic. Hey man, if there's no traffic around, why should you have to wait?

This is coming from a former 'peace officer' (not to be confused with law enforcer).

Anti Federalist
12-13-2012, 08:30 PM
Haha. Knew somebody was going to come out with Stihl. Glad it was you.

http://www.ourdeerpark.net/news-2/revisionstothecitystreeordinance

So it was 8" instead of 6", besides the point.

Holy shit...SMH.

Well, just another point to prove that you really don't own anything, we are all, all of us, regardless of financial status, merely serfs, squatting on the land at the pleasure of our Lords and Masters.

FrancisMarion
12-13-2012, 08:43 PM
Holy shit...SMH.

Well, just another point to prove that you really don't own anything, we are all, all of us, regardless of financial status, merely serfs, squatting on the land at the pleasure of our Lords and Masters.

Agreed, and if anyone ever challenges that statement, ask them to define ownership.

PaulConventionWV
12-13-2012, 08:53 PM
As a paper delivery driver, I break almost every road rule on the books every night and get away with it. It does feel good.

I always fight my tickets. If there is any little thing I can bring up to defend myself, I will spend as much time cross-examining the "witness" (cop) as much as possible because it costs the court money to do these proceedings. If everyone did this, the system would collapse. In fact, not everyone needs to do it. Only a small percentage need to do it before it becomes completely cumbersome and useless for the court to enforce.

Free in CT
12-13-2012, 08:55 PM
Many years ago (okay, it was 1987, a LONG time ago) I was being trained on a new delivery route while I was working for Wonder Bread.
The route was in the heart of the city of Hartford and I hit the street prior to 5:00 a.m. The route driver that had the route there for years
told me to check at each intersection then proceed through the lights, which were timed and did not change in response to a vehicle stopped
at the intersection. At that time of the morning there simply wasn't the time available to waste waiting for lights and there was NO traffic.
The guy who was training me had been running the lights 5 days a week for 5 years and had never been stopped. I ran the route until the day I
left Wonder for greener pastures, 3 years, ran the lights every day, never got caught.

PaulConventionWV
12-13-2012, 09:02 PM
One night I was picking up my kid late from work, and I came to a stop sign. There was only one other car on the street, and it was on the other side of the intersection. Neither of us were turning, and I laughed out loud wondering why we were both stopped. It seemed so absurd to me, both of us sitting there. But I knew if there was a cop lurking, I would have gotten a ticket even though there was no risk to "public safety."

As reprehensible as Dondero is, he told the funniest story about Ron. Ron used to like to drive around rural Texas speeding like a bat out of hell, with no seat belt, laughing the whole time. I love that man!

"That’s the first sign you know you’re a libertarian. You see the red light. You stop. You realize that there’s not a car in sight. And you put your foot on the gas."
– Gary Johnson

You're talking about Ron Paul? Speeding like a bat out of hell laughing the whole time? That seems a bit... out of character.

kcchiefs6465
12-13-2012, 09:02 PM
As a paper delivery driver, I break almost every road rule on the books every night and get away with it. It does feel good.

I always fight my tickets. If there is any little thing I can bring up to defend myself, I will spend as much time cross-examining the "witness" (cop) as much as possible because it costs the court money to do these proceedings. If everyone did this, the system would collapse. In fact, not everyone needs to do it. Only a small percentage need to do it before it becomes completely cumbersome and useless for the court to enforce.
A small percentage does and they write more tickets. Be realistic about it.

KingNothing
12-13-2012, 09:35 PM
You're talking about Ron Paul? Speeding like a bat out of hell laughing the whole time? That seems a bit... out of character.


Didnt Ron's parents give him a stern talking to for shooting a bb gun at passing cars when he was a kid? I'm guessing he's always had that sort of streak.

Origanalist
12-13-2012, 09:39 PM
I don't know what it is about the link in the OP, but that site just freezes on me.

EBounding
12-13-2012, 10:03 PM
In the city of Detroit, red lights are purely optional. You literally fear for your life if you're alone waiting at a light.

kcchiefs6465
12-13-2012, 10:09 PM
In the city of Detroit, red lights are purely optional. You literally fear for your life if you're alone waiting at a light.
Not legally, but I hear what you are saying. Many lights out here you wouldn't want to stop at. Getting lost sucks.

Lucille
12-14-2012, 08:02 AM
As a paper delivery driver, I break almost every road rule on the books every night and get away with it. It does feel good.

I always fight my tickets. If there is any little thing I can bring up to defend myself, I will spend as much time cross-examining the "witness" (cop) as much as possible because it costs the court money to do these proceedings. If everyone did this, the system would collapse. In fact, not everyone needs to do it. Only a small percentage need to do it before it becomes completely cumbersome and useless for the court to enforce.

It's true. So in that case, obey.

How To Gum Up Any Institution
http://lewrockwell.com/north/north1108.html


Four words: "Follow the rules exactly."


You're talking about Ron Paul? Speeding like a bat out of hell laughing the whole time? That seems a bit... out of character.

I love that story!

Danke
12-14-2012, 11:25 AM
I get annoyed by the turn arrows that turn red vs. a solid green light (meaning it is a three light vs. a four light traffic signal).

Lucille
12-14-2012, 11:31 AM
Related:

The Praxeology and Ethics of Traffic Lights
http://mises.org/daily/4745


It's over. There can be no hope for the state now. Its time has finally come to an end. If you think this is irrationally optimistic, click here and watch the video. You will see the state's raison d'être smashed asunder.

How often do you hear the minarchist say, "Well, I don't like government, but we at least need things like traffic laws. We need a government to keep us safe"? For all those who call libertarians crazy for wanting to abolish the Federal Reserve, how much more dangerous and criminal would they accuse us of being if we actually began to publicly advocate the abolition of traffic regulations? Yet, here it is, on video, for the entire world to see, that Hobbes was wrong.
[...]
It is a clear-cut case of what is known in Austrolibertarian circles as spontaneous order. Rational human beings organize themselves and cooperate voluntarily without the need for government. It is not government, but people that build a civilized society. All government can do is destroy civilized behavior through its violent coercion.

What these examples of regulated and unregulated intersections show is about as close to a perfectly controlled social-behavioral experiment as one can possibly get, and they demonstrate concretely the truth of the libertarian position on the nature of man and society. In addition, they show the problem of "transition" from a socialist society to a free one is a rather insignificant problem. Were the state to completely disappear tomorrow, people would immediately begin to adapt and thrive in the new situation.

What this also demonstrates is yet another example of how government decivilizes people. The Austrolibertarian is aware of a plethora of government interventions into the free conduct of human beings, done in the name of safety, that either make us all less safe or simply create more daily annoyances. Such things include gun laws, airport security armed with naked-body scanners, the invasion of third-world countries, and even the regulation of household plumbing. None of these things make us safe. At best, they treat people more like animals than rational human beings. On average, they are harbingers of death.

Brian4Liberty
12-14-2012, 12:10 PM
In the city of Detroit, red lights are purely optional. You literally fear for your life if you're alone waiting at a light.

Lol. I've been on streets like that. Absolutely no reason to stop at a red light if it is safe to go. It's less safe to stop. No danger of the Police in those situations. They know better than anyone.

Brian4Liberty
12-14-2012, 12:12 PM
But wait...wut???

WTF do you live, that you have to get permission from the cops to cut down a tree over 6 inches????

Another lol. If you country folks only knew what it was like in the city and suburbs.

acptulsa
12-14-2012, 01:20 PM
I remember back in the '60s some states had some wonderful "smart traffic lights". They had sensors to count how many cars were coming from all four directions and would change the signal accordingly. If the government really wants to save energy, those "smart traffic lights" would be all over the place now.

Tulsa has those almost exclusively. They are an improvement, but not perfect. Too often they are set for rush hour conditions. So, you wind up with an intersection where the light is programmed to change when two vehicles come from the side streets. At four a.m., that second car could be a long time coming--and our sensors can't usually sense a motorcycle at all. The usual method is to back up a bit, then pull forward a bit, thus fooling the system into thinking you're two cars. Rude drivers who pull completely into the crosswalk tend to wait for a long time, as the sensors are not in the crosswalk.

They are an improvement. But I still like those cities that set all their traffic lights flashing at night--either red one way (the equivalent of a stop sign) and yellow the other, or red all four directions (thus making a four way stop). The guarantee of a brief stop is better in the wee hours than sitting (burning carbon fuels) and waiting for no one.

dannno
12-14-2012, 01:37 PM
I'm a big fan of the round-a-bout

PaulConventionWV
12-14-2012, 03:21 PM
A small percentage does and they write more tickets. Be realistic about it.

A bigger small percentage.

PaulConventionWV
12-14-2012, 03:23 PM
It's true. So in that case, obey.

How To Gum Up Any Institution
http://lewrockwell.com/north/north1108.html





I love that story!

What story?

Also, thanks for the link.