Federal judge rules North Carolina's 'Choose Life' license plate unconstitutional

[ronpaulfollower999]

http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/assets/660/371/ChooseLifeplate.jpg


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/11/federal-judge-rules-north-carolina-choose-life-license-plate-unconstitutional/

A federal judge has ruled a North Carolina plan to offer license plates supporting the pro-life movement unconstitutional, saying the state cannot issue the plates without offering a similar product for the opposing viewpoint.

A spokeswoman for the North Carolina Attorney General's Office told The Associated Press Monday the state hasn't decided whether to appeal the decision from U.S. District Court Judge James Fox. His order from Friday follows the one he issued more than a year that temporarily blocked North Carolina from offering the plates.

Fox said in his judgement that the state's plan violates the First Amendment. The proposed license plate featured two children with the words "Choose Life" printed above them.

“The State’s offering of a Choose Life license plate in the absence of a pro-choice plate constitutes viewpoint discrimination in violation of the First Amendment," he said according to MyFox8.

A spokesman for The ACLU of North Carolina Legal Foundation, which sued over the plates in September 2011, hailed Fox's ruling.
"This is a great victory for the free speech rights of all North Carolinians, regardless of their point of view on reproductive freedom,” said Chris Brook, legal director of the ACLU-NCLF, told MyFox8.

The North Carolina General Assembly passed House Bill 289, which authorized the creation of the pro-life plate, during the 2011 legislative session.
However, the legislature rejected six separate amendments that would have authorized a license plate supporting the pro-choice movement. The proposed plates featured phrases such as “Trust Women. Respect Choice,” or simply “Respect Choice," MyFox8 reports.

Republican Rep. Mitch Gillespie of McDowell County sponsored the bill and tells The Associated Press he'll encourage the attorney general to appeal the decision.

[tod evans]

Saw that earlier....first thing I thought of was pro-weed tags...

Pro-bomb, Pro bailout, pro-welfare....etc......

[Confederate]

"This is a great victory for the free speech rights of all North Carolinians, regardless of their point of view on reproductive freedom,” said Chris Brook, legal director of the ACLU-NCLF, told MyFox8.

Fuck you ACLU. How is this a victory for free speech if it curtails pro-life speech?

[specsaregood]

“The State’s offering of a Choose Life license plate in the absence of a pro-choice plate constitutes viewpoint discrimination in violation of the First Amendment," he said according to MyFox8.


hrmm...
https://edmv-sp.dot.state.nc.us/sp/demo/images/special_interest_sot.gif

So, say somebody doesn't want to "support the troops", where is their opposing viewpoint license plate?

[Confederate]

So, say somebody doesn't want to "support the troops", where is their opposing viewpoint license plate?

Time to contact the ACLU.

What about this one:

https://edmv-sp.dot.state.nc.us/sp/graphics/HUR.JPG

What if I'm not a Carolina Hurricanes fan? What if I want to support a different team with my license plate?

I do think it's cool that "$1000000" is a valid license plate number in NC, though.

[jmdrake]

Would this be a reasonable alternative?

http://www.serpentinegallery.org/Choices_flyer_ChooseDeath_low.jpg

http://files.list.co.uk/images/festivals/2011/fringe/casual-violence-choose-death_22252.jpg

http://infinitecoolness.com/galleries/petsematary/petsematarywallpaper08.jpg

Seriously, if the "pro choice" crowd really isn't about killing babies, then why do they care if someone is advocating the people make the life choice? Should there be an alternative to all of the pro environmental license plates out there?

Does this:

http://www.coastal.ca.gov/publiced/plate/plate3new.jpg

require this?

http://sozaphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Barrow-27.jpg

[cbc58]

I'm sorry - but I don't want to be looking at pro-life license plates as I drive around NC. Go get a bumper sticker for that if you want. This type of thing is not what govt. should be doing or worrying about. I'm not dissing pro-life or pro-abortion - just get govt. the hell out of this type of thing.

[Confederate]

I'm sorry - but I don't want to be looking at pro-life license plates as I drive around NC. Go get a bumper sticker for that if you want. This type of thing is not what govt. should be doing or worrying about. I'm not dissing pro-life or pro-abortion - just get govt. the hell out of this type of thing.

Don't look at licence plates, look at the road.

[specsaregood]

Seriously, if the "pro choice" crowd really isn't about killing babies, then why do they care if someone is advocating the people make the life choice? Should there be an alternative to all of the pro environmental license plates out there?


Yeah, the way it was worded seems to me to be the least offensive possible. Heck, its actually a pro-choice plate!

[jkr]

not constitutional?!?!?!?

what part of LIFE, LIBERTY, & pursuit of HAPPINESS do you not understand?

hint:

the "life" part...

he gets it!
http://www.kitmeout.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/wham-george-michael-choose-life-480x330.jpg

man i miss the 80's

[jmdrake]

Yeah, the way it was worded seems to me to be the least offensive possible. Heck, its actually a pro-choice plate!

+rep!


I'm sorry - but I don't want to be looking at pro-life license plates as I drive around NC. Go get a bumper sticker for that if you want. This type of thing is not what govt. should be doing or worrying about. I'm not dissing pro-life or pro-abortion - just get govt. the hell out of this type of thing.

I'm curious as to why? Couldn't someone be against anti abortion laws and yet still promote the idea that choosing not to abort is a good thing? Why is that offensive?

Edit: And to be honest, I used to be offended myself until I realized what hypocrisy the so called "pro choice" movement was. I realized this from the case of Terri Schiavo. The pro choice (pro death?) camp was all about making sure that her husband was the one to make the "choice" for her to die. So much for feminism.

[PursuePeace]

We have both in Virginia.

1666

1667


So if people on the other side of the issue want to come up with a plate, is something stopping them? The process must be easy in Virginia, we have all kinds of plates.

We also have:

1668


http://www.dmv.virginia.gov/exec/vehicle/splates/category.asp?category=S

[cbc58]

It is offensive because govt. has no business either way in this matter. You can have your own beliefs but don't push them or promote them to me via a govt. entity or govt. controlled system.

[Confederate]

It is offensive because govt. has no business either way in this matter. You can have your own beliefs but don't push them or promote them to me via a govt. entity or govt. controlled system.

Of course government has a role in protecting the unborn. It's one of government's very few obligations. Protect life, liberty, and property.

[cbc58]

The founding fathers weren't addressing abortion when they wrote the Constitution.

[jmdrake]

It is offensive because govt. has no business either way in this matter. You can have your own beliefs but don't push them or promote them to me via a govt. entity or govt. controlled system.

Your on beliefs on what exactly? The license plate it not pushing the overturn of Roe v Wade. Again, if you're really about "choice" the license plate shouldn't be offensive.

[jmdrake]

The founding fathers weren't addressing abortion when they wrote the Constitution.

The founding fathers weren't addressing limitations on state laws at all when they wrote the constitution. They certainly had no intention that the federal government tell the state what it could or could not put on licenses issued by a state.

[jmdrake]

not constitutional?!?!?!?

what part of LIFE, LIBERTY, & pursuit of HAPPINESS do you not understand?

hint:

the "life" part...

he gets it!
http://www.kitmeout.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/wham-george-michael-choose-life-480x330.jpg

man i miss the 80's

LOL. You know, I was so brain damaged by my pro abortion stance that George Michael's "Wham" t-shirt offended me. :(

[supermario21]

Isn't the federal judge in the area a raging liberal? I feel like everything conservative leaning in that district gets struck down then they usually win when they go to higher courts.

[EBounding]

Good to see the ACLU has their priorities straight! Nothing is a greater threat to our liberty than "Choose Life" license plates. Except maybe public Crèches.

[Barrex]

I am strongly against _____ font that was used on those licence plates and think it should be illegal. I demand option that I get my plate in Trebuchet MS font format.

If there is no agreement future licence plate will look like this:

[cbc58]

it's really very simple - if you can't see that then there is no sense in me explaining anything. no arguing, no justifying, no religious beliefs. stated my opinion and done.

[thoughtomator]

There shouldn't be any point-of-view promotion on a license plate to begin with, it's a government produced item and government has no business making these choices.

Of course, left up to me, there wouldn't be license plates at all, nor licenses - the right to travel is a fundamental human right and not something a government should have a say-so on, other than passage through national borders, which are necessary to protect any right at all.

By the way, am I the only one who sees the demented irony in "Choose Life" license plates made by prisoners?

[jmdrake]

it's really very simple - if you can't see that then there is no sense in me explaining anything. no arguing, no justifying, no religious beliefs. stated my opinion and done.

What's simple is that it isn't a federal issue. No federal judge should be ruling on it. People who can't stand such license plates don't have to buy one or live in said state.

[dntrpltt]

I have to agree with cbc58. Why should the government get involved in this anyway?


People who can't stand such license plates don't have to buy one or live in said state.

We don't have to buy one, true, nor do we have to live in NC. That being said, when proceeds from the sale of these specialized license plates go to pro-life organizations, it really says something about the government protecting all free speech when six different amendments were shot down that would have made available a pro-choice license plate. Again, is one against a pro-choice plate? You don't have to purchase one.

[Confederate]

The founding fathers weren't addressing abortion when they wrote the Constitution.

The Founding Fathers never meant the 1st amendment to apply to the states.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[jmdrake]

I have to agree with cbc58. Why should the federal government get involved in this anyway?

Fixed it for ya. Edit: Really this is BS. Louisiana's official license plate is "Sportsman's paradise". What about people who are against hunting and fishing?

[dntrpltt]

Fixed it for ya.

True, I don't understand why the federal courts should have gotten involved in this. But why should any government get involved?

Edit:

Really this is BS. Louisiana's official license plate is "Sportsman's paradise". What about people who are against hunting and fishing?

http://omv.dps.state.la.us/images/SupportEndangeredSpecies.jpg
http://omv.dps.state.la.us/images/Environment.jpg
http://omv.dps.state.la.us/images/AnimalFriendly.jpg

[Czolgosz]

Anyone think State government is much better?

Before you say, "vote w/ your feet," I retort w/, "you'll run out of places to go."

If the individual doesn't have rights over government (local, state, or federal), you'll be a slave in no time. Everywhere.

[dntrpltt]

The Founding Fathers never meant the 1st amendment to apply to the states.

The NC Constitution (http://www.ncleg.net/Legislation/constitution/ncconstitution.html) has its own form of the 1st amendment:


Sec. 14. Freedom of speech and press.
Freedom of speech and of the press are two of the great bulwarks of liberty and therefore shall never be restrained, but every person shall be held responsible for their abuse.

[jmdrake]

True, I don't understand why the federal courts should have gotten involved in this. But why should any government get involved?

Does said government make you buy a "choose life" license plate? I guess next neo nazis will be complaining that Nathan Bedford Forrest's birthday isn't a national holiday.

[jay_dub]

Choose Life license plates are specialty license plates available in 27 states in the United States that express a pro-life message. The plates are the concept of Choose Life, Inc., a pro-life advocacy group based in Ocala, Florida.[1] It was founded in 1997 by Randy Harris, a commissioner of Marion County, after he got an idea (when he noticed an environmental plate on the car in front of him, while stuck in traffic) to use specialty license plates as a way to raise funds for promoting adoption over abortion.[2] The plates feature the phrase "Choose Life", a slogan used by the pro-life movement, and a child art-like drawing of two children.[2]

As of December 2010, Choose Life license plates are available in 27 states:

Four states currently provide license plates with a pro-choice theme: Hawaii, Montana, Pennsylvania, and Virginia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choose_Life_license_plates

What effect will this ruling have in the other states?

[jmdrake]

The NC Constitution (http://www.ncleg.net/Legislation/constitution/ncconstitution.html) has its own form of the 1st amendment:

Nobody's free speech is violated by a choose life license plate.

[dntrpltt]

Does said government make you buy a "choose life" license plate?

Does said government prevent you from being able to buy a license plate with an opposing viewpoint?

[jmdrake]

Anyone think State government is much better?

Before you say, "vote w/ your feet," I retort w/, "you'll run out of places to go."

If the individual doesn't have rights over government (local, state, or federal), you'll be a slave in no time. Everywhere.

Yeah. Because abortion is against state law in all 50 sta.....oh nevermind. :rollleyes: Oh the tyranny of advocating for life! States must advocate for death as well!

http://www.serpentinegallery.org/Choices_flyer_ChooseDeath_low.jpg

Seriously, I think the state should offer that as the "alternative". Truth in advertising.

[dntrpltt]

Nobody's free speech is violated by a choose life license plate.

That wasn't at all was I was implying there--I was just pointing it out that while "Congress" shall make no law, neither shall the "State of NC". The First Amendment is reflected across state constitutions as well.

[donnay]

I choose LIFE without being permitted to choose life. How about we choose to not have license plates! :D

[jmdrake]

Does said government prevent you from being able to buy a license plate with an opposing viewpoint?

When do I get my "eat the whales" license plate? I want to sue.

http://sozaphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Barrow-27.jpg

[Confederate]

The NC Constitution (http://www.ncleg.net/Legislation/constitution/ncconstitution.html) has its own form of the 1st amendment:

Yes, but this was struck down by a federal court using the federal constitution as a basis, a ruling that is not only inconsistent with the federal constitution but also North Carolina's constitution.


Sec. 14. Freedom of speech and press.
Freedom of speech and of the press are two of the great bulwarks of liberty and therefore shall never be restrained, but every person shall be held responsible for their abuse.

Allowing someone a pro-life license plate does not restrict anyone else's speech. Banning pro-life license plates restricts someone's speech.

[Confederate]

That wasn't at all was I was implying there--I was just pointing it out that while "Congress" shall make no law, neither shall the "State of NC". The First Amendment is reflected across state constitutions as well.

Meaning this judge's ruling violates both constitutions. He's restricting someone's right to voice their pro-life views.

[dntrpltt]

Yes, but this was struck down by a federal court using the federal constitution as a basis, a ruling that is not only inconsistent with the federal constitution but also North Carolina's constitution.

Doesn't the order only prevent Choose Life plates in the absence of Respect Choice plates? Freedom of Speech is for the people to exercise--not for State Governments to exercise through selective passage of legislation that favors one purely political viewpoint over the other. (I use purely political because, well, are Choose Life plates going to do anything in the long run? Nope. Abortion is legal in all 50 states whether one likes it or not.)

[dntrpltt]

Meaning this judge's ruling violates both constitutions. He's restricting someone's right to voice their pro-life views.

He isn't restricting anything; his order simply meant that the GOVERNMENT could not de facto support one viewpoint over the other. What probably weighed a lot on his decision was the six failed amendments to create a pro-choice plate as well. Why couldn't the other lawmakers simply abstain from voting on those and let them pass? Does it really hurt anything to have a pro-choice license plated car parked beside a car with a pro-life plate?

[jmdrake]

Doesn't the order only prevent Choose Life plates in the absence of Respect Choice plates? Freedom of Speech is for the people to exercise--not for State Governments to exercise through selective passage of legislation that favors one purely political viewpoint over the other. (I use purely political because, well, are Choose Life plates going to do anything in the long run? Nope. Abortion is legal in all 50 states whether one likes it or not.)

The federal reserve is currently the law of the land, whether one likes it or not.

[dntrpltt]

The federal reserve is currently the law of the land, whether one likes it or not.

You are right--let's get a couple states to make up some nice looking license plates to protest the Federal Reserve, then one day, as Bernanke is driving around and spots one, he'll be so overcome with emotion and be so convinced that our protest plates express the correct view, he'll run into the Fed and immediately shut it down!

Because that's how people get things done. It's all about the license plates.

[jmdrake]

You are right--let's get a couple states to make up some nice looking license plates to protest the Federal Reserve, then one day, as Bernanke is driving around and spots one, he'll be so overcome with emotion and be so convinced that our protest plates express the correct view, he'll run into the Fed and immediately shut it down!

Because that's how people get things done. It's all about the license plates.

An anti Fed license plate already exists.

http://netrightdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Dont-Tread-On-Me-License-Plate-300x150.jpg

But I guess Virginia should have a "Lie down and accept socialism" license plate in order to balance the viewpoint.

[dntrpltt]

But I guess Virginia should have a "Lie down and accept socialism" license plate in order to balance the viewpoint.

Is anyone asking for a "Lie down and accept socialism" plate? I mean, if there was a huge push to have one, if it was that big of a deal, who is to deny them their right to free speech? Who does it hurt to have such a plate? Why should the GOVERNMENT be the sole voice in for what goes on a license plate? Why do we even NEED license plates?

Why is this such a big deal? If they want one, then give it to them!

[specsaregood]

He isn't restricting anything; his order simply meant that the GOVERNMENT could not de facto support one viewpoint over the other. What probably weighed a lot on his decision was the six failed amendments to create a pro-choice plate as well. Why couldn't the other lawmakers simply abstain from voting on those and let them pass? Does it really hurt anything to have a pro-choice license plated car parked beside a car with a pro-life plate?

In what way is the license plate in the OP not pro-choice?

[klamath]

I don't think the state should be putting messages on license plates but I do find i ironic that this is the message they choose to protest. How about some of the pro environmental plates in california?

[erowe1]

Doesn't the order only prevent Choose Life plates in the absence of Respect Choice plates? Freedom of Speech is for the people to exercise--not for State Governments to exercise through selective passage of legislation that favors one purely political viewpoint over the other. (I use purely political because, well, are Choose Life plates going to do anything in the long run? Nope. Abortion is legal in all 50 states whether one likes it or not.)

What business does the federal government have giving any state any order like that, no matter what the conditions are?

[jmdrake]

I don't think the state should be putting messages on license plates but I do find i ironic that this is the message they choose to protest. How about some of the pro environmental plates in california?

+rep! That's because this isn't about freedom of speech. Again, where's my "eat baby whales" license plate?

[dntrpltt]

In what way is the license plate in the OP not pro-choice?

Lets say there was a State of Doesn't Exist. (Since apparently, we can go as far off topic as we want, from Whales to the Fed, all of which have everything to do with abortion.)The State of Doesn't Exist started out by offering to its citizens white cup. You don't have to get the white cup, but if you don't, you can't drink soda. Everyone can drink water, so no one has to have soda either, but if you choose to have soda, you must have a cup. (Soda is a car, in case one is wondering; anyone can walk or ride or fly somewhere, no one has to have a car to get around.) Then one day, the Hot-Pink party stepped into power in the State of Doesn't Exist, and opened up another choice: Hot-Pink cups along with White cups. Of course, when one decides to use a Hot-Pink cup, it also donates money to causes adverse to the Turquoise Party. So the Turquoise Party wishes to create a third option, a Turquoise Cup, along with Hot-Pink and White cups. The State of Doesn't Exist doesn't allow them to do so.

In other words, the State is allowing one side to earn revenue through the sale of Government-sponsored items, while disallowing the other side to do the same. The Government is thus restricting the speech of the other side, simply because it sponsors one over the other.

Think my example is silly? So is the whole "whales" example.

[specsaregood]

Lets say there was a State of Doesn't Exist. (Since apparently, we can go as far off topic as we want, from Whales to the Fed, all of which have everything to do with abortion.)The State of Doesn't Exist started out by offering to its citizens white cup. You don't have to get the white cup, but if you don't, you can't drink soda. Everyone can drink water, so no one has to have soda either, but if you choose to have soda, you must have a cup. (Soda is a car, in case one is wondering; anyone can walk or ride or fly somewhere, no one has to have a car to get around.) Then one day, the Hot-Pink party stepped into power in the State of Doesn't Exist, and opened up another choice: Hot-Pink cups along with White cups. Of course, when one decides to use a Hot-Pink cup, it also donates money to causes adverse to the Turquoise Party. So the Turquoise Party wishes to create a third option, a Turquoise Cup, along with Hot-Pink and White cups. The State of Doesn't Exist doesn't allow them to do so.

In other words, the State is allowing one side to earn revenue through the sale of Government-sponsored items, while disallowing the other side to do the same. The Government is thus restricting the speech of the other side, simply because it sponsors one over the other.

Think my example is silly? So is the whole "whales" example.

So, I must have missed it: how exactly is the license plate in the OP not pro-choice?

[erowe1]

In other words, the State is allowing one side to earn revenue through the sale of Government-sponsored items, while disallowing the other side to do the same.

Who gets the revenue? The article in the OP doesn't mention that aspect.

[dntrpltt]

So, I must have missed it: how exactly is the license plate in the OP not pro-choice?

Pro-Choice as in, financially supporting causes that support Roe v Wade, versus financially supporting causes that campaign against Roe v Wade.

[jmdrake]

So, I must have missed it: how exactly is the license plate in the OP not pro-choice?

I guess he's talking about choice of license plates as opposed to choice of whether or not to murder your baby. I still say the state should offer a "choose death" option and be done with it. Satan FTW!

http://www.serpentinegallery.org/Choices_flyer_ChooseDeath_low.jpg

[dntrpltt]

Who gets the revenue? The article in the OP doesn't mention that aspect.


How is the Choose Life plate money distributed? Who makes those decisions?
According to the law, the Carolina Pregnancy Care Fellowship is the legally designated agency for disbursement of plate funds. The CPCF board of directors has established criteria for eligibility as well as a plan for the disbursement of funds, when they become available.


(From: http://www.ncchoose-life.org/)

[erowe1]

I guess he's talking about choice of license plates as opposed to choice of whether or not to murder your baby. I still say the state should offer a "choose death" option and be done with it. Satan FTW!

http://www.serpentinegallery.org/Choices_flyer_ChooseDeath_low.jpg

I like that idea. But it would backfire, because that would end up being their most popular plate.

[nobody's_hero]

LOL nevermind the 'pro-death' idea summed it up..

[specsaregood]

Pro-Choice as in, financially supporting causes that support Roe v Wade, versus financially supporting causes that campaign against Roe v Wade.

Ok, so we agree the license plate is actually a pro-choice message. The problem is money and everybody wants to get some and restrict their enemies from it. So this isn't about the message; but blood suckers jealous of other people raising money.

[dntrpltt]

I guess he's talking about choice of license plates as opposed to choice of whether or not to murder your baby. I still say the state should offer a "choose death" option and be done with it. Satan FTW!

http://www.serpentinegallery.org/Choices_flyer_ChooseDeath_low.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dWIMGuOIG-I/TTHqc47_v2I/AAAAAAAALJU/mOHR0HCJ-oU/s1600/redherring.gif

[dntrpltt]

Ok, so we agree the license plate is actually a pro-choice message. The problem is money and everybody wants to get some and restrict their enemies from it. So this isn't about the message; but blood suckers jealous of other people raising money.

Blood suckers? Seriously? It isn't about them raising money--it is about the government allowing one side this new avenue for fundraising, while expressively denying the other side the same right.

Do you support Government bailouts?

[nobody's_hero]

+rep! That's because this isn't about freedom of speech. Again, where's my "eat baby whales" license plate?

Or my 'what's the big deal about ice caps melting?, polar bears can swim' plate.

[specsaregood]

Blood suckers? Seriously? It isn't about them raising money--it is about the government allowing one side this new avenue for fundraising, while expressively denying the other side the same right.
Do you support Government bailouts?

Yes, blood suckers. And I'd put groups on both sides in that category. If the issue is money, then fine; I have no problem just removing this fundraising option. Keep the plate, but remove the money incentive.

[jmdrake]

(From: http://www.ncchoose-life.org/)

Well here's how their sister agency in Pennsylvania is using the money.

BACKGROUND: The volume of unexpected and often unwanted pregnancies in this country has been a continuous problem for years. Evidence of this is apparent in the sheer volume of pregnancies terminated annually.

A recent national survey among teenage girls reported that 82% believe their unmarried peers should offer their babies for adoption if they don't want them. For teens and older women alike such a decision can be not only difficult but also expensive.

The financial costs associated with a full term pregnancy are often too extreme for some women to bear. Many non-profit organizations and volunteers across the State of Pennsylvania offer assistance to these women in their time of need. Assistance includes such things as maternity clothing, food, housing, medical expenses and transportation. If a woman choose to bring a life into this world and offer her baby for adoption, she deserves all of the assistance and caring we can provide.

The revenues generated from "Choose Life" license plates would service two easily identifiable needs in Pennsylvania. Foremost it would provide much needed revenue to continue assistance to pregnant women who are planning to offer their child for adoption and it would provide financial assistance to agencies involved in the adoption and counseling efforts.

OMG! Money is being voluntarily raised so it can be used to help teen mothers *gasp* choose life! It's the end of liberty!

Edit: And with just a little bit of further research, you would have found out that the "Carolina Pregnancy Care Fellowship" is not a political organization and does not lobby to overturn Roe v. Wade!

http://www.cpcflink.org/

North Carolina has approximately eighty pregnancy care ministries --pregnancy centers, adoption agencies, and maternity homes -- provide needed services to women
of all ages, men, and
families.



Our pregnancy centers provide:

Pregnancy options education
Prenatal & parenting education
Referrals to community resources
Maternity & infant clothing and supplies
Post abortion recovery support programs
In some centers--medical services such as limited ultrasound & STI testing

Our maternity homes and adoption agencies also provide additional services to surround pregnant women with vital care and supportive services.

It is a 501c(3) and as such is not allowed to politic. (Of course that didn't stop Seasame Street from lobbying for more tax dollars).

http://www.ncchoose-life.org/donate.php

[klamath]

+rep! That's because this isn't about freedom of speech. Again, where's my "eat baby whales" license plate?
Or loggers built america with a picture of a logger cutting one of the sequoia trees they put on licenses out here.

[jmdrake]

Blood suckers? Seriously? It isn't about them raising money--it is about the government allowing one side this new avenue for fundraising, while expressively denying the other side the same right.

Do you support Government bailouts?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dWIMGuOIG-I/TTHqc47_v2I/AAAAAAAALJU/mOHR0HCJ-oU/s1600/redherring.gif ....right back at you.

[dntrpltt]

Well here's how their sister agency in Pennsylvania is using the money.

BACKGROUND: The volume of unexpected and often unwanted pregnancies in this country has been a continuous problem for years. Evidence of this is apparent in the sheer volume of pregnancies terminated annually.

A recent national survey among teenage girls reported that 82% believe their unmarried peers should offer their babies for adoption if they don't want them. For teens and older women alike such a decision can be not only difficult but also expensive.

The financial costs associated with a full term pregnancy are often too extreme for some women to bear. Many non-profit organizations and volunteers across the State of Pennsylvania offer assistance to these women in their time of need. Assistance includes such things as maternity clothing, food, housing, medical expenses and transportation. If a woman choose to bring a life into this world and offer her baby for adoption, she deserves all of the assistance and caring we can provide.

The revenues generated from "Choose Life" license plates would service two easily identifiable needs in Pennsylvania. Foremost it would provide much needed revenue to continue assistance to pregnant women who are planning to offer their child for adoption and it would provide financial assistance to agencies involved in the adoption and counseling efforts.

OMG! Money is being voluntarily raised so it can be used to help teen mothers *gasp* choose life! It's the end of liberty!

I wouldn't say that government sponsored plates is money voluntarily being raised.

And as for that nice, heartwarming background:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dWIMGuOIG-I/TTHqc47_v2I/AAAAAAAALJU/mOHR0HCJ-oU/s1600/redherring.gif ...right back at you too.

[erowe1]

(From: http://www.ncchoose-life.org/)

Here's the organization connected with that.
http://www.cpcflink.org/

What is the "other side" to this that you think NC should help raise funds with a license plate of their own?

[dntrpltt]

Yes, blood suckers. And I'd put groups on both sides in that category. If the issue is money, then fine; I have no problem just removing this fundraising option. Keep the plate, but remove the money incentive.

You know what, that's fine too. That would be a perfect, reasonable compromise. Good luck trying to convince anyone to do so.

[Confederate]

Do you support Government bailouts?

What taxpayer funds are used here? To buy the license you voluntarily pay an extra fee that goes to the organization of choice.

[Confederate]

Well here's how their sister agency in Pennsylvania is using the money.

BACKGROUND: The volume of unexpected and often unwanted pregnancies in this country has been a continuous problem for years. Evidence of this is apparent in the sheer volume of pregnancies terminated annually.

A recent national survey among teenage girls reported that 82% believe their unmarried peers should offer their babies for adoption if they don't want them. For teens and older women alike such a decision can be not only difficult but also expensive.

The financial costs associated with a full term pregnancy are often too extreme for some women to bear. Many non-profit organizations and volunteers across the State of Pennsylvania offer assistance to these women in their time of need. Assistance includes such things as maternity clothing, food, housing, medical expenses and transportation. If a woman choose to bring a life into this world and offer her baby for adoption, she deserves all of the assistance and caring we can provide.

The revenues generated from "Choose Life" license plates would service two easily identifiable needs in Pennsylvania. Foremost it would provide much needed revenue to continue assistance to pregnant women who are planning to offer their child for adoption and it would provide financial assistance to agencies involved in the adoption and counseling efforts.

OMG! Money is being voluntarily raised so it can be used to help teen mothers *gasp* choose life! It's the end of liberty!

Edit: And with just a little bit of further research, you would have found out that the "Carolina Pregnancy Care Fellowship" is not a political organization and does not lobby to overturn Roe v. Wade!

http://www.cpcflink.org/

North Carolina has approximately eighty pregnancy care ministries --pregnancy centers, adoption agencies, and maternity homes -- provide needed services to women
of all ages, men, and
families.



Our pregnancy centers provide:

Pregnancy options education
Prenatal & parenting education
Referrals to community resources
Maternity & infant clothing and supplies
Post abortion recovery support programs
In some centers--medical services such as limited ultrasound & STI testing

Our maternity homes and adoption agencies also provide additional services to surround pregnant women with vital care and supportive services.

It is a 501c(3) and as such is not allowed to politic. (Of course that didn't stop Seasame Street from lobbying for more tax dollars).

http://www.ncchoose-life.org/donate.php

Wanna bet the same judge would have ruled this constitutional if the license plate funds went towards buying mifepristone?

[dntrpltt]

Here's the organization connected with that.
http://www.cpcflink.org/

What is the "other side" to this that you think NC should help raise funds with a license plate of their own?


...They have proposed phrases such as "Respect Choice" and "Trust Women." In some versions of the proposal, money raised by the plates would go to Planned Parenthood, a nonprofit health care organization whose services include abortion...

(From: http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2011/06/04/1099064?sac=Home)

At this point, being the only one playing Devil's Advocate here, I would like to point out that I am pro-life, and I do not support money raised from the sale of these license plates going to anyone. I don't support license plates.

[tod evans]

I don't have a problem with anyone putting whatever they want on their tag so long as they're willing to pay for it...

What a silly thing to be arguing about..

[dntrpltt]

What taxpayer funds are used here? To buy the license you voluntarily pay an extra fee that goes to the organization of choice.

True, you do. You choose to pay that extra fee when you choose that license plate. However, opponents are unable to raise money though this avenue; if they don't offer their own plate, they can't very well raise funds through that extra fee, can they? Who is stopping them from offering that license plate? The Government.

[jmdrake]

You know what, that's fine too. That would be a perfect, reasonable compromise. Good luck trying to convince anyone to do so.

Why is that a reasonable compromise when the money is being used to support unwed mothers? As a pro-liberty taxpayer I would think you would applaud this. Every dollar raised through these license plates is one less dollar that the government needs to ask for as part of WIC and other pre natal/neo natal care programs.

[specsaregood]

At this point, being the only one playing Devil's Advocate here, I would like to point out that I am pro-life, and I do not support money raised from the sale of these license plates going to anyone. I don't support license plates.

I wouldn't be surprised if you position is the majority view around here.

[specsaregood]

Why is that a reasonable compromise when the money is being used to support unwed mothers? As a pro-liberty taxpayer I would think you would applaud this. Every dollar raised through these license plates is one less dollar that the government needs to ask for as part of WIC and other pre natal/neo natal care programs.

People would still be free to donate money to those causes, just without the govt middleman.

[dntrpltt]

Why is that a reasonable compromise when the money is being used to support unwed mothers? As a pro-liberty taxpayer I would think you would applaud this. Every dollar raised through these license plates is one less dollar that the government needs to ask for as part of WIC and other pre natal/neo natal care programs.

Going back to your proposal for a "Support Death" plate: Every dollar that is saved by the early death of a citizen is one less dollar the taxpayers would spend supporting the citizen's Medicare and Social Security. (See Boomsday by Christopher Buckley.)

[dntrpltt]

People would still be free to donate money to those causes, just without the govt middleman.

There you go. Exactly.

[jmdrake]

(From: http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2011/06/04/1099064?sac=Home)

At this point, being the only one playing Devil's Advocate here, I would like to point out that I am pro-life, and I do not support money raised from the sale of these license plates going to anyone. I don't support license plates.

Thank you for the link. Planned Parenthood gets all kinds of government money, most of it through forced taxation as opposed to voluntary taxes like the license plate. I'm sure the pro life side would consider cutting off all government funding, state federal or local, for Planned Parenthood and similar organizations in exchange for only having pro life bumper stickers a "reasonable compromise". Also I don't understand why anyone anyone would be opposed to voluntary funding adoption and pregnancy services. But that's just me I suppose.

[jmdrake]

Going back to your proposal for a "Support Death" plate: Every dollar that is saved by the early death of a citizen is one less dollar the taxpayers would spend supporting the citizen's Medicare and Social Security. (See Boomsday by Christopher Buckley.)

If you feel promoting death is a reasonable goal of society....apparently most people in North Carolina don't. What evil tyrants they are!

[erowe1]

(From: http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2011/06/04/1099064?sac=Home)

At this point, being the only one playing Devil's Advocate here, I would like to point out that I am pro-life, and I do not support money raised from the sale of these license plates going to anyone. I don't support license plates.

How is Planned Parenthood the "other side"?

The CPCF helps women have babies and helps get those babies adopted. If Planned Parenthood is the other side of that, then a "Don't Smoke" plate that funds the Cancer research has to be countered by a pro-smoking one that funds a cigarette company.

[dntrpltt]

Thank you for the link. Planned Parenthood gets all kinds of government money, most of it through forced taxation as opposed to voluntary taxes like the license plate. I'm sure the pro life side would consider cutting off all government funding, state federal or local, for Planned Parenthood and similar organizations in exchange for only having pro life bumper stickers a "reasonable compromise". That said, I think your earlier assertion that this was about groups using funding to "overturn Roe v. Wade" can now be buried as a red herring. Also I don't understand why anyone anyone would be opposed to voluntary funding adoption and pregnancy services. But that's just me I suppose.

I was wrong when I pointed out that the group was for "overturning Roe v Wade", but I suppose a better wording would have been "against abortion".

Anyways, as to your compromise, it would be great! I do not support Planned Parenthood through forced taxation or through voluntary taxation. I don't support any government middleman. If PP wants money, or if Choose Life wants money, then they can raise it by themselves without the government stepping in as a middleman.

It is all about the Government being involved, jmdrake. No one is opposed to voluntary funding adoption and pregnancy services, but I would argue that it isn't voluntary whenever the government gets involved.

[dntrpltt]

If you feel promoting death is a reasonable goal of society....apparently most people in North Carolina don't. What evil tyrants they are!

I don't; I was simply making an economic evaluation, just as you were when you asserted that supporting unwed mothers through these plates saves WIC money.

[nobody's_hero]

“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” ― Winston S. Churchill

Regardless of which side of this debate you fall on, this quote came to mind.

[ronpaulfollower999]

Of course government has a role in protecting the unborn. It's one of government's very few obligations. Protect life, liberty, and property.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Confederate again.