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Feeding the Abscess
12-10-2012, 07:47 PM
It's about time anti-immigrant types get taken to the woodshed from a liberty perspective.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/128087.html


The policy response on the part of the anti-immigration movement, not surprisingly, is to embrace big government (http://mises.org/daily/2463). They advocate for fences and more border control agents and regulations on private business and instructing police to spy on people and demand their papers. That's the "pro-freedom" position, apparently. And in the mind of those opponents of immigration, the Hispanics who vote for the party that they perceive as being more likely to leave them alone, are, amazingly, the "anti-freedom" group. This is the logic of the anti-immigrant mind.

The conservative anti-immigrant position is simply a part of the larger conservative program: more government power, more nationalism, more police, and more control, while being sure to pay some lip service to "freedom" while supporting the latest authoritarian form of prohibitionism.

Prohibition of certain drugs and prohibition of certain people go hand-in-hand philosophically. The same sort of mind that sees nothing wrong with government declaring some kinds of plants to be "government-approved" while some other plants are not approved, is the same sort of mind that can accept that idea that some people should be government-approved while other people are not government-approved and thus verboten. Indeed, some anti-immigrationists are so misguided, that they are in favor of punishing small business people who hire non-government-approved labor, and are even in favor of punishing landlords who rent apartments to non-government-approved people (http://www.american-apartment-owners-association.org/blog/2010/04/29/are-landlords-now-immigration-enforcers/):

The 69-year-old landlord was arrested and charged with dozens of crimes, including harboring fugitives and conspiracy — because his property manager rented to illegals. Although acquitted by a jury, he could have spent the rest of his life in prison, and been forced to forfeit the 60 or so units he owned jointly with his son to the State of Kentucky.

The fact that people who support this war on private enterprise in the name of driving immigrants out of the country, are then also able to convince themselves that their knee-jerk police statism is pro-liberty, is impressive to say the least.

Brett85
12-10-2012, 07:50 PM
Yes, open borders! The United States of CanaMexico!

TCE
12-10-2012, 08:00 PM
I am for open borders inevitably, but it is like ending food stamps before cutting off corporate welfare in the form of bailouts. If you still have a welfare state, then open borders are not sustainable since people will just come on board to feast off the system. IE: California. The idea that closed borders always seem to necessitate giving the DEA, TSA, and Department of Homeland Security more power is a worthwhile point and could lead to an interesting discussion. It could also end in a flame war where I end up going out to buy some popcorn while reading a 45 page thread.

dannno
12-10-2012, 08:03 PM
Yes, open borders! The United States of CanaMexico!

I don't think you would see many libertarian/anarchist open borders advocates actually advocating opening the borders until we shut down the welfare state. At that point, who am I to tell a person to come here or not? Who are you?

Sure, if they want to have some trial period setup to make sure the person who wants the benefits of citizenship is going to be relatively safe and productive then I don't think you are going to see very many libertarian/anarchist open borders advocates complaining.

What we are complaining about is all these Republicans who talk horribly about the problems "Mexican" people cause when most of them are just living their lives relatively peaceably, no wonder there aren't many Mexicans voting Republican.

Cutlerzzz
12-10-2012, 08:11 PM
Inb4 we'll run out of jobs.

FrankRep
12-10-2012, 08:14 PM
I don't think you would see many libertarian/anarchist open borders advocates actually advocating opening the borders until we shut down the welfare state.

I disagree. Most Libertarians I see proudly boast about supporting Open Borders.

Brett85
12-10-2012, 08:23 PM
I don't think you would see many libertarian/anarchist open borders advocates actually advocating opening the borders until we shut down the welfare state. At that point, who am I to tell a person to come here or not? Who are you?

Sure, if they want to have some trial period setup to make sure the person who wants the benefits of citizenship is going to be relatively safe and productive then I don't think you are going to see very many libertarian/anarchist open borders advocates complaining.

What we are complaining about is all these Republicans who talk horribly about the problems "Mexican" people cause when most of them are just living their lives relatively peaceably, no wonder there aren't many Mexicans voting Republican.

We already allow 1 million people to come here legally each year, which is one of the most liberal immigration policies in the world. I'm not in favor of cutting back on legal immigration, but unlimited legal immigration would be just as bad as illegal immigration.

erowe1
12-10-2012, 08:26 PM
I am for open borders inevitably, but it is like ending food stamps before cutting off corporate welfare in the form of bailouts.

There would be nothing wrong with ending welfare immediately, regardless of having done anything else first.

Same goes for getting the feds to stop making us get their permission to hire people to work for us.

erowe1
12-10-2012, 10:18 PM
---

I'm curious about the last line of your sig. Do you have a smart cousin who went to Johns Hopkins or something?

LibertyEagle
12-11-2012, 01:44 AM
I don't think you would see many libertarian/anarchist open borders advocates actually advocating opening the borders until we shut down the welfare state. At that point, who am I to tell a person to come here or not? Who are you?

Sure, if they want to have some trial period setup to make sure the person who wants the benefits of citizenship is going to be relatively safe and productive then I don't think you are going to see very many libertarian/anarchist open borders advocates complaining.

What we are complaining about is all these Republicans who talk horribly about the problems "Mexican" people cause when most of them are just living their lives relatively peaceably, no wonder there aren't many Mexicans voting Republican.

Then, at that time, you will be my enemy. Because you will be the useful idiots of the globalists who are doing their damnedest to subvert our country.

John F Kennedy III
12-11-2012, 02:31 AM
National Sovereignty.

John F Kennedy III
12-11-2012, 02:32 AM
Then, at that time, you will be my enemy. Because you will be the useful idiots of the globalists who are doing their damnedest to subvert our country.

Damn right.

John F Kennedy III
12-11-2012, 02:55 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQnenKHdd7A&feature=youtube_gdata_player

July
12-11-2012, 07:07 AM
I disagree. Most Libertarians I see proudly boast about supporting Open Borders.

Well, there aren't very many libertarians in office pushing policy, so I suppose they can talk theory and philosophy in whatever order they want. But yes, if you were to actually start pushing in this direction, both the drug war and the welfare state are major obstacles to open borders, that would have to be dealt with. That doesn't mean they are wrong in principle though. We're talking about two different things- the theory/principle, and how to implement, and in what order to do it.

dannno
12-11-2012, 01:58 PM
I disagree. Most Libertarians I see proudly boast about supporting Open Borders.

Yes, mostly because you only give their posts a cursory glance take their comments out of context.

erowe1
12-11-2012, 02:03 PM
National Sovereignty.

Individual sovereignty.

nobody's_hero
12-11-2012, 02:29 PM
If you want to change immigration policy I understand, but don't expect any hispanic voters out of it.

Reagan thought he'd help the GOP's image by granting amnesty in the 80s and the GOP never saw any significant increase in hispanic support. They continued to vote for the type of politicians they were used to in latin America, mob-rule democrats.

staerker
12-11-2012, 02:33 PM
Then, at that time, you will be my enemy. Because you will be the useful idiots of the globalists who are doing their damnedest to subvert our country.

Since when did less governmental restrictions = globalist agenda? Would fighting for liberty on a worldwide scale make me a globalist?

UMULAS
12-11-2012, 02:37 PM
-Dark Vaders voice-

I find your lack of knowledge on immigration distrubing.



No really, you guys act like the people from stormfront.