Man in Supposed 23-Year-Long Coma Speaks, Says He Was Always Conscious

[Anti Federalist]

Man in Supposed 23-Year-Long Coma Speaks, Says He Was Always Conscious

Posted by Ryan W. McMaken on December 7, 2012 10:31 PM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/127944.html

I mention this article because I think it is relevant to the libertarian debate over definitions of personhood and natural rights:

After he was the victim of an automobile accident, doctors said 23-year-old Rom Houben was in a comatose state and unable to communicate with those around him. Now, 23 years later, the 46-year-old says he felt trapped as he was conscious the entire time and attempted to communicate...Although tests at the time showed that he was essentially "extinct," newer tests conducted just three years ago showed Houben’s brain was functioning normally — and his renewed ability to communicate is something he describes as a "second birth."...Laureys says physicians need to not be so quick to label patients as in a vegetative state, because such a diagnosis can be incorrect..."We hear constantly that people diagnosed as being persistently unconscious should be dehydrated to death because they are not ‘persons,’ or are actually ‘dead’ — and so should be available for organ harvesting,"

It's also relevant because in our present corporatist health care system, doctors routinely pressure the families of so-called brain dead people to kill their relatives in order to harvest their organs. It turns out, some of those people are still functioning mentally. Also, now that we know socialized medicine leads to "cost saving" measures such as starving babies to death, this is something to keep in mind.

[BamaAla]

Not to stray off your topic, but I would much rather die and have my organs harvested that be trapped in hell for 23 years. That's sad...and scary.

On topic, just another story in a long line of why socialized medicine as stupid as socialized anything else.

[matt0611]

Not to stray off your topic, but I would much rather die and have my organs harvested that be trapped in hell for 23 years. That's sad...and scary.

On topic, just another story in a long line of why socialized medicine as stupid as socialized anything else.

Good idea to have your wishes in writing so your family knows what to do in these situations. Even so, there's no way to change your mind if something happens, tough situation.

[Dr.3D]

Wow! That must have been very boring for him. I can't imagine being able to hear, see and feel things but not being able to move or speak for that length of time. I can't see how he maintained his sanity.

[pcgame]

.................

[CaptUSA]

I'm not so sure this is a big story.

I see thousands of comatose people walking around me every day. Most people spend their entire lives in a reverse coma. Able to walk around and interact with the real world, but unable to hear, see or feel what is going on.

[kcchiefs6465]

Not to stray off your topic, but I would much rather die and have my organs harvested that be trapped in hell for 23 years. That's sad...and scary.

On topic, just another story in a long line of why socialized medicine as stupid as socialized anything else.
I'm in the same boat. I wouldn't have anything left to talk about after the first year or so. Twenty three years? I'd rather cease to be. Five years? Meh, maybe I could 'pen' a novel or something productive.

[Eric21ND]

Facilitated communication is a hoax. Delve deeper into the story of this man and have a healthy dose a skepticism.

[QuickZ06]

Unreal, and very scary/sad indeed. I can't imagine what he was thinking or feeling.

[donnay]

Man in Supposed 23-Year-Long Coma Speaks, Says He Was Always Conscious

Posted by Ryan W. McMaken on December 7, 2012 10:31 PM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/127944.html

I mention this article because I think it is relevant to the libertarian debate over definitions of personhood and natural rights:

After he was the victim of an automobile accident, doctors said 23-year-old Rom Houben was in a comatose state and unable to communicate with those around him. Now, 23 years later, the 46-year-old says he felt trapped as he was conscious the entire time and attempted to communicate...Although tests at the time showed that he was essentially "extinct," newer tests conducted just three years ago showed Houben’s brain was functioning normally — and his renewed ability to communicate is something he describes as a "second birth."...Laureys says physicians need to not be so quick to label patients as in a vegetative state, because such a diagnosis can be incorrect..."We hear constantly that people diagnosed as being persistently unconscious should be dehydrated to death because they are not ‘persons,’ or are actually ‘dead’ — and so should be available for organ harvesting,"

It's also relevant because in our present corporatist health care system, doctors routinely pressure the families of so-called brain dead people to kill their relatives in order to harvest their organs. It turns out, some of those people are still functioning mentally. Also, now that we know socialized medicine leads to "cost saving" measures such as starving babies to death, this is something to keep in mind.


All I can say is Karen Ann Quinlan.

[Ranger29860]

Facilitated communication is a hoax. Delve deeper into the story of this man and have a healthy dose a skepticism.

I am a little confused by what you mean? Are you saying the communication method used for this man isn't real? Or that the doctors are "faking it"?

[messana]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rom_Houben

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

[ican'tvote]

It was the ouija board effect.

[Acala]

I am perfectly happy having clinically dead bodies kept alive - so long as I am not forced to pay for it either with taxes, insurance rates, or directly. Unless, of course, I have entered into a contract promising to keep a clinically dead person on life support.

[presence]

Facilitated communication is a hoax. Delve deeper into the story of this man and have a healthy dose a skepticism.


The story linked to in Lewrockwells story dates to 2009.

I found this from 2010:


A Belgian man who stunned the world last year by apparently communicating after 23 years in a coma cannot in fact do so, researchers say.
The doctor who believed that Rom Houben was communicating through a facilitator now says the method does not work.
Dr Steven Laureys told the BBC: "The story of Rom is about the diagnosis of consciousness, not communication."
His conclusions follow a study to test the validity of so-called facilitated communication.
Claims that Mr Houben - who was seriously injured in a car crash in 1983 - could communicate, swept around the world last November.
After more than two decades in a coma, he was filmed apparently tapping out messages on a special touchpad keyboard with the help of his speech therapist.
Method 'not valid'
By holding Mr Houben's forearm and finger, the therapist was said to feel sufficient pressure to direct her to the correct keys on the keyboard.
Dr Laureys, a neurologist at Liege University Hospital in Belgium, had earlier established that Mr Houben was more conscious than doctors had previously thought - and that is still thought to be the case.
But he also believed that his interaction with the speech therapist was genuine. Following further study, however, Dr Laureys says the method does not work.




It was the ouija board effect.


"It's like using an Ouija board," Arthur Caplan, a professor of bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania, told Associated Press on Friday. "It was too good to be true and we shouldn't have believed it."

[Tpoints]

harvesting organs needs consent, so no matter how much pressure, a doctor can never force a patient to be killed or do so without explicit consent. Nobody can tell you what to do when you are willing to pay to keep a family member alive, when you don't or can't, you can't complain somebody wants to "cost save".