2 week old baby killed for interrupting Dad’s gaming

[aGameOfThrones]

http://imagery.playerattack.com/BrianFrazier-StefanyAsh.jpg





20-year old Brian Frazier is in custody this week, charged with the first-degree murder of his two-week old son. According to police reports, Frazier was pulling an all-night gaming session when baby Khan "got fussy" at around 5am.

Frustrated at the interruption to his gaming, Frazier reportedly grabbed the baby by the neck and punched him in the face. The baby - according to prosecutors - then "went back to sleep", and later died of his injuries.

Both Frazier and his 20-year old girlfriend Stefany Ash woke up at around 2pm the following afternoon and reportedly discussed covering up Khan's death, even conspiring to tell police the baby had been kidnapped. Ash finally called 911 about an hour later, and police questioned the couple. Frazier is now charged with first-degree murder, while Ash faces accessory after the fact charges.

Ash and Frazier reportedly had an abusive relationship and lived "in filth" according to Ash's stepfather Brian Alston. He describes the house as "littered" with soiled diapers, empty soda cans and food scraps. Ash's mother Sandra Alston defended her daughter, claiming Stefany had recently undergone a C-section procedure and was "unable" to clean her house.

The local North Carolina Department of Social Services had visited the Frazier/Ash home prior to the child's death, raising questions why Khan - or his 15-month old brother Kane - were still living in such squalid conditions. Kane his now in the custody of child protective services.

http://www.playerattack.com/news/2012/12/06/2wk-old-baby-killed-for-interrupting-dads-gaming/#ixzz2EP8kWJAP

[sevin]

Lock him up, tell all the other prisoners what he did, and let them beat him to death.

[AGRP]

No more video games for him.

[Nirvikalpa]

Society really is f*cked.

[CaptainAmerica]

http://static.tumblr.com/cjpbfj0/sRTlxe40o/game-over.jpg for that sick mother trucker,he definitely won't survive prison.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

He must feel like a big man for punching a baby in the face. So help me God, I try to stay out of others affairs but if I saw someone punch a baby I might go to jail for murder.

[Seraphim]

She's just as messed up as him - I garuntee it.

Women are equally capable of socipathy and pathetic behavior as men. They find each other. The child suffers. 99.99% chance they were both pieces of shit.


Society really is f*cked.

[kathy88]

We will be paying for the two of them to exist until they (or us) are dead.

[HOLLYWOOD]

It's idiots like them... that empower the state to take control, then preventive control, and eventually, total control.

[AGRP]

Done with private local organizations and a tight knit community rather than the CPS, Id like to think the babies would have been taken away before one of them was murdered. Im sure private organizations would be a lot more in tune to these type of people. "Hello, this is Sally from the local ______. Would you like to sign the babies over to the _______? Best care in the world." "Sure! I dont give a ****!"

[paulbot24]

We will be paying for the two of them to exist until they (or us) are dead.

We probably already were paying for them. They probably had a long list of monthly entitlement checks. Video games all night until 5AM?

[daviddee]

...

[seyferjm]

I cannot put into words how much that I rage when stories like this come up! :mad: I hope prison justice is swift!

[coastie]

What a piece of work, that fucking guy.


Sad the other kid will be exposed to what CPS has in store for him. Two innocent victims there.

[The Free Hornet]

Fuck all of you advocating rape and murder in prison. Not literally "fuck" you, but a serious 'what the fuck are you thinking'?

Before and after the guy who deserves it are ten guys who don't. This isn't the type of society we ought to promote.

Here's a link:
http://adsoftheworld.com/media/ambient/stop_prison_rape_org_soap

[dinosaur]

Yet, it would have been perfectly legal for them to kill the baby two weeks earlier.

[fr33]

Fuck all of you advocating rape and murder in prison. Not literally "fuck" you, but a serious 'what the fuck are you thinking'?

Before and after the guy who deserves it are ten guys who don't. This isn't the type of society we ought to promote.

Here's a link:
http://adsoftheworld.com/media/ambient/stop_prison_rape_org_soapWell nobody here said the other people deserve it; just this guy. He deserves to be killed (not that I want the state to do it.)

[John F Kennedy III]

He must feel like a big man for punching a baby in the face. So help me God, I try to stay out of others affairs but if I saw someone punch a baby I might go to jail for murder.

Amen brother.

[The Free Hornet]

Well nobody here said the other people deserve it; just this guy. He deserves to be killed (not that I want the state to do it.)

Does he deserve to be killed before or after his fair trial? Advocating prison rape/murder IS advocating the state to do it.

Many people want prisons to be crowded, filthy, dangerous, and disease ridden. They don't care that they might be sent there after trial or awaiting trial.

Also, I'm not aware of the factors leading to prison rape including "punches baby in face":


1 You are young.
2 You come from a middle-class background.
3 You are white.
4 You are not street smart or have no gang affiliations.
5 Physically you are of small stature.

www.loompanics.com/Articles/RapeInPrison.html (http://www.loompanics.com/Articles/RapeInPrison.html)

Of all the places on the net, people here should know the outrage of having unsafe prisons especially when ~1% of population is in them (and a much higher percent will get churned thru the system during their lifetime).

[Natural Citizen]

Society really is f*cked.

What's worse is that people actually sit around board room tables getting paid six figures to market society into fucking themselves. These monsters are created. Never born that way. He's probably been playing these games since he was a child. Growth demads that the consumer is ...consuming...in the manner that this man was. All nighters playing games? That initself is a problem. What's worse is that the damn box was probably watching him while he was doing it so that it could market him elsewhere.

My youngest has always maintained above a 4. gpa and recently I let him have a xbox. What I learned was that at the other end of the wire was a society like I've never known to exist. His grades dropped to a 3.0 and after I unplugged the thing and tossed it in the trash, he's back up to where he was. Undiagnosed and untreated growth is the biggest cancer dooming societies healthy survival, in my opinion.

What I really felt like doing was taking it up the holler and putting a punkin ball through it just so nobody else picked it from the trash.


Many of these games are designed to create killers. Even at home. My opinion.
Pay attention to some of the memes authored in the game below. Many of which are already in place.
What's dangerous is to market an idea as acceptable in the minds of youth when in fact it is not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DKYxg2bSnY

[aGameOfThrones]

Yet, it would have been perfectly legal for them to kill the baby two weeks earlier.


No it wouldn't.









Wait.............

[The Free Hornet]

Yet, it would have been perfectly legal for them to kill the baby two weeks earlier.

False.

a) it would require a doctor to kill the baby after 20 weeks gestation
b) it would have to be about 22 weeks so as to avoid the 20 week limitation (afterwhich 'health of the mother issues' must be present)
c) not "them", but possibly "her" (in any case) - sorry, but dudes can't punch a fetus that's not in their belly

www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_OAL.pdf (http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_OAL.pdf)

Please correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I see for "NC" where it happened (HIGH POINT, N.C (http://wtvr.com/2012/11/28/prosecutor-says-infant-died-after-being-punched-by-father/)).

[fr33]

Does he deserve to be killed before or after his fair trial?He deserved it the instant he punched the baby. If the mother was worth a shit she would have done it immediately it after witnessing the murder. Since she didn't it would have to be after the trial.


Advocating prison rape/murder IS advocating the state to do it.Vigilantes are not the state.


Also, I'm not aware of the factors leading to prison rape including "punches baby in face":Nice study. Surely some inmates don't like baby killers. Not all but some. But your study doesn't find it. And no I don't think he should be raped. He should be killed. The state does not have a monopoly on justice. In fact they are quite bad at it.

[tod evans]

We will be paying for the two of them to exist until they (or us) are dead.

It's very likely we paid for their existence up to and including the TV and video game....Probably their childs birth too.

Which raises the question, did murdering the baby carry an enhancement for destruction of public property?

[CaptainAmerica]

who in this thread would not want to beat him to death with his own game console? Honestly, I think most of you would be so mad if you were there witnessing him hitting a baby that you would.

[Anti-Neocon]

She's just as messed up as him - I garuntee it.
Yeah, I guarantee that she's as messed up as the guy that punched the baby in the face. Totally guarantee it.

[AGRP]

They should teach society that killing is wrong by killing him?

[Aldanga]

Many of these games are designed to create killers. Even at home. My opinion.
Pay attention to some of the memes authored in the game below. Many of which are already in place.
What's dangerous is to market an idea as acceptable in the minds of youth when in fact it is not.
Do you realize how many people play video games? From my generation, it's more uncommon to not play than to play, and I know plenty of over-achievers who regularly play video games. There will always be irresponsible idiots. Blaming the new fear, whether video games or rock music or marijuana, is just a scape goat for much, much bigger problems.

[alucard13mmfmj]

a scrawny nerd who murdered a baby... he is so dead in prison.

[Anti-Neocon]

I find it extremely hard to believe that he'll be conviced of first-degree murder. I'm not exactly how sure the laws work, but can it even be classified as murder without the intent to kill?

[Anti-Neocon]

They should teach society that killing is wrong by killing him?
Thank you. It's no wonder that capital punishment is shown to have a positive correlation with murder rates (http://www.e-archives.ky.gov/pubs/Public_Adv/nov97/crime_control.htm) (that is, there are actually more murders as a result of executions due to the "brutalization effect").

[Natural Citizen]

Do you realize how many people play video games?

Yes, I do. That's why I wrote what I did. I was OK with Pong and Pac Man and all of that but now we are teaching our youth...marketing our youth...the art of killing. It's a way of thinking. A science. It's almost a mind control. One that is quite conforming to our geopolitical infrastructure as a whole as well. Of course, that's my opinion(although a quite educated one) but do you really think I cannot show you statistics, studies and surveys on just how far these corporations go to strategically market the minds of our youth? Cripes, I'm just the huckleberry for that job.

Don't take it personal. I blame Reagan and that brood of lobbyists back in the 80's. :rolleyes:

Of course, your argument carries merit as well. I get that. But no where near as much as mine.

[Aldanga]

Mind control? For real? How many video games have you played?

[Natural Citizen]

Mind control? For real? How many video games have you played?

Listen. Understand what I mean by that. OK? Don't try to make me sound stupid. You'll lose. As I said. It's a marketed way of thinking. A mindset. A targeted one as well but a targeted market that has produced it's own supply and demand through and exhausting amount of study.

The closest I've come to a video game is landing a rover, btw. Way cooler than anything you've ever played, I can absolutely promise.

[GunnyFreedom]

Listen. Understand what I mean by that. OK? Don't try to make me sound stupid. You'll lose. As I said. It's a marketed way of thinking. A mindset. A targeted one as well but a targeted market that has produced it's own supply and demand through and exhausting amount of study.

The closest I've come to a video game is landing a rover, btw. Way cooler than anything you've ever played, I can absolutely promise.

But...was it on Mars?

[TheTexan]

But...was it on Mars?

No, because that one was faked =P

[Natural Citizen]

But...was it on Mars?

Yep. Simulation. A few months worth too. Over and over and over...and over again.

Which, in effect, is the argument I'm trying to make with the other poster. Technology is far more beneficial to market to students both in and conforming to success in the classroom as opposed to the living room. It's a much different mindset and one that promotes a far more pleasurable ending than the bullets and bombs...and mindset we see from the typical markets directed toward our youth. We should be training scientists, not killers.

In fact, in the end they may just understand the difference in military spending versus defense spending. But I'm straying off topic...I guess.

[FindLiberty]

...sickening.

The entire jury box might empty out like an angry hockey team and open a big ole' can of whoop-ass on 'em right there at the court trial.

Too bad he did not stick with that game and use a mic w/headphones AND LEAVE THAT BABY ALONE so other gamers could hear the baby's cries in the background audio and arrange a real rescue mission.

How did he manage to take a break from that game long enough to conceive that child in the first place?

[Natural Citizen]

No, because that one was faked =P

Don't believe that one.

[Danke]

Fuck all of you advocating rape and murder in prison. Not literally "fuck" you, but a serious 'what the fuck are you thinking'?

Before and after the guy who deserves it are ten guys who don't. This isn't the type of society we ought to promote.

Here's a link:
http://adsoftheworld.com/media/ambient/stop_prison_rape_org_soap

:rolleyes:

Nobody is advocating that an innocent man should be subject to such punishment. The assumption is that he is guilty.

And if that turns out to be the case, feed him to the dogs.

[bolil]

Yes, I do. That's why I wrote what I did. I was OK with Pong and Pac Man and all of that but now we are teaching our youth...marketing our youth...the art of killing. It's a way of thinking. A science. It's almost a mind control. One that is quite conforming to our geopolitical infrastructure as a whole as well. Of course, that's my opinion(although a quite educated one) but do you really think I cannot show you statistics, studies and surveys on just how far these corporations go to strategically market the minds of our youth? Cripes, I'm just the huckleberry for that job.

Don't take it personal. I blame Reagan and that brood of lobbyists back in the 80's. :rolleyes:

Of course, your argument carries merit as well. I get that. But no where near as much as mine.

The amount of money spent on these games bears testament to your opinions validity. I am addicted to Battlefield 3 and I suspect it involves the rush of virtually killing something controlled by another mind. That being said, I do believe the propaganda purpose served by the propagation of killing/war games more involves hero-worship (of the troops) while, and thereby, generating favorable preconditions for enlistment and killing.

Don't they keep child murders, rapist, and other forms of less manly scum out of general population?

[GunnyFreedom]

The amount of money spent on these games bears testament to your opinions validity. I am addicted to Battlefield 3 and I suspect it involves the rush of virtually killing something controlled by another mind. That being said, I do believe the propaganda purpose served by the propagation of killing/war games more involves hero-worship (of the troops) while, and thereby, generating favorable preconditions for enlistment and killing.

Don't they keep child murders, rapist, and other forms of less manly scum out of general population?

I was far, far more interested in FPS games when they had long complicated campaigns that took days or weeks to resolve. Now that FPS games have just a 2 hour campaign and then it's all PvP I don't really care for them at all anymore.

Give me an open ended FPS with a single player campaign that you can play for months, and I'd be loving it. They can keep PvP. If I want to do PvP I much prefer actual paintball or MILES, because twiddling thumbs does not build muscle memory or anything more than tactical book knowledge really.

[AngryCanadian]

Yes, I do. That's why I wrote what I did. I was OK with Pong and Pac Man and all of that but now we are teaching our youth...marketing our youth...the art of killing. It's a way of thinking. A science. It's almost a mind control. One that is quite conforming to our geopolitical infrastructure as a whole as well. Of course, that's my opinion(although a quite educated one) but do you really think I cannot show you statistics, studies and surveys on just how far these corporations go to strategically market the minds of our youth? Cripes, I'm just the huckleberry for that job.

Don't take it personal. I blame Reagan and that brood of lobbyists back in the 80's. :rolleyes:

Of course, your argument carries merit as well. I get that. But no where near as much as mine.

I dont play Video Games as often as i used have, but i do because they have played me through my war trauma. Not all Games do help and there are some games that arent violent.

[Natural Citizen]

I dont play Video Games as often as i used have, but i do because they have played me through my war trauma. Not all Games do help and there are some games that arent violent.

Yours is another very delicate aspect that I really did want to point out as well but felt it not the practical thing to do in a discussion thread like this one. Thanks for your input regarding it though. It's important to understand your perspective.

[BenIsForRon]

Don't try to make me sound stupid.

Too late. Video games are form of expression just like movies, music, and writing. Millions of adults enjoy video games in their down time and continue to live productive, fulfilling lives.

[jmdrake]

Yah. This isn't the first time I've heard of a vidgame addicted boyfriend kill a baby for interrupting his game. While all gamers aren't like that, there does seem to be a valid concern about some who are obsessive. It's the same as for any addiction.


What's worse is that people actually sit around board room tables getting paid six figures to market society into fucking themselves. These monsters are created. Never born that way. He's probably been playing these games since he was a child. Growth demads that the consumer is ...consuming...in the manner that this man was. All nighters playing games? That initself is a problem. What's worse is that the damn box was probably watching him while he was doing it so that it could market him elsewhere.

My youngest has always maintained above a 4. gpa and recently I let him have a xbox. What I learned was that at the other end of the wire was a society like I've never known to exist. His grades dropped to a 3.0 and after I unplugged the thing and tossed it in the trash, he's back up to where he was. Undiagnosed and untreated growth is the biggest cancer dooming societies healthy survival, in my opinion.

What I really felt like doing was taking it up the holler and putting a punkin ball through it just so nobody else picked it from the trash.


Many of these games are designed to create killers. Even at home. My opinion.
Pay attention to some of the memes authored in the game below. Many of which are already in place.
What's dangerous is to market an idea as acceptable in the minds of youth when in fact it is not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DKYxg2bSnY

[KingNothing]

Just heartbreaking. What a shame.

[KingNothing]

Too late. Video games are form of expression just like movies, music, and writing. Millions of adults enjoy video games in their down time and continue to live productive, fulfilling lives.

Exactly. Now, are video games pointless, silly, wastes of time that no one with a child should have the time to engage in? Yeah, most likely. But, c'mon. Anyone with a modicum of responsibility knows not to let games take over their lives. For people like Khan's dad, if it weren't a video game that ruined the family, it would have been drinking, or gambling, or drugs, or sports, or any number of things.

[malkusm]

For people like Khan's dad, if it weren't a video game that ruined the family, it would have been drinking, or gambling, or drugs, or sports, or any number of things.

+rep - personal responsibility is the culprit, not the specific vice.

[KingNothing]

:rolleyes:

Nobody is advocating that an innocent man should be subject to such punishment. The assumption is that he is guilty.

And if that turns out to be the case, feed him to the dogs.

Violence is not the answer to society problems. Assuming he is guilty, locking him up for life, not raping or killing him, is the answer.

[Jlasoon]

"Both Frazier and his 20-year old girlfriend Stefany Ash woke up at around 2pm the following afternoon"

You have to love that line. Sometimes I wonder why I even try. Just keep giving these idiots more money.

[rprprs]

"Both Frazier and his 20-year old girlfriend Stefany Ash woke up at around 2pm the following afternoon"

You have to love that line. Sometimes I wonder why I even try. Just keep giving these idiots more money.
That sentence jumped out at me, too. I share your sentiments.

[Uriah]

When I was young I would stay up all night playing video games once in a while when not in school. Never punched a baby though. The acronym POS applies here. But let us not forget that it is our culture and society that produced these people. Everything from diet, upbringing and governmental interference and economic situation is at play. No one of us is anywhere near individually responsible for these people but we, our society is collectively responsible for allowing ourselves to produce people of this type not once or twice but on a continually frequent basis.

[tod evans]

Much truth in this!


When I was young I would stay up all night playing video games once in a while when not in school. Never punched a baby though. The acronym POS applies here. But let us not forget that it is our culture and society that produced these people. Everything from diet, upbringing and governmental interference and economic situation is at play. No one of us is anywhere near individually responsible for these people but we, our society is collectively responsible for allowing ourselves to produce people of this type not once or twice but on a continually frequent basis.

[Natural Citizen]

No one of us is anywhere near individually responsible for these people but we, our society is collectively responsible for allowing ourselves to produce people of this type not once or twice but on a continually frequent basis.

That's rather profound. I don't know that many will understand just how profound it is. Society is a very broad cast of characters in today's world. Which goes back to my comment on Reagan and the personhood these corporations benefitted from when achieving the "rights"...as people...of society...to market these youth in the constant manner that they do.

Society has been redefined. Society can only be held accountable in that particular regard. Until such a separation of the corporation and state exist we'll continue to remain under that illusion. I've read here tht we cannot hold these corporations accountable yet technically, as entities bearing the gift of personhood, they absolutely are considered to be a relevant aspect of society. Not one that I agree with personally or support but unfortunately that's how it is. Yet we only view ourselves as humans as the platform to be discussed as far as morals and accountability. Now, that's a much broader subject of discussion that is perhaps better left to other platforms to resolve but conforming to this thread regardless. Well...conforming to your words here. Which, as I said, are profound. At least I think so. As far as society itself is now understood, we the people are a very broad cast of characters. We need to fix that so that in thinking logically from a perspective of accountability from we the people, we have a clear and decisive means of benchmarking the notion.

Anyhow...as I said, it's best left for those who actually fight that fight. Excellent example as to why it needs to happen though, Uriah. Even if maybe you may not have meant it that way.

[Nirvikalpa]

When I was young I would stay up all night playing video games once in a while when not in school. Never punched a baby though. The acronym POS applies here. But let us not forget that it is our culture and society that produced these people. Everything from diet, upbringing and governmental interference and economic situation is at play. No one of us is anywhere near individually responsible for these people but we, our society is collectively responsible for allowing ourselves to produce people of this type not once or twice but on a continually frequent basis.

+rep.

[ShaneEnochs]

Does he deserve to be killed before or after his fair trial? Advocating prison rape/murder IS advocating the state to do it.

Many people want prisons to be crowded, filthy, dangerous, and disease ridden. They don't care that they might be sent there after trial or awaiting trial.

Also, I'm not aware of the factors leading to prison rape including "punches baby in face":



Of all the places on the net, people here should know the outrage of having unsafe prisons especially when ~1% of population is in them (and a much higher percent will get churned thru the system during their lifetime).

I never understood why people should have trials when they admit to the crime. Just skip to sentencing.

[bolil]

I never understood why people should have trials when they admit to the crime. Just skip to sentencing.

"... nor be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law." 5th amendment. Gotta follow the law.

[klamath]

Aborted two weeks late......

[kathy88]

+rep - personal responsibility is the culprit, not the specific vice.some would argue certain addictive traits are physiological. Just playing devil's advocate for a sec.

[thequietkid10]

BAN ALL THE VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES....

I think there is something primal that draws us to video games, especially FPS which require quick response and high pressure situations. Lets face it, modern working life is boring.

I"m not a big fan of FPS, (in part because I'm not any good at them) but I know the rush of video games.

[kcchiefs6465]

BAN ALL THE VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES....

I think there is something primal that draws us to video games, especially FPS which require quick response and high pressure situations. Lets face it, modern working life is boring.

I"m not a big fan of FPS, (in part because I'm not any good at them) but I know the rush of video games.
Are you serious?

[Brian4Liberty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icmRCixQrx8

[Victor Grey]

Many of these games are designed to create killers. Even at home. My opinion.
Pay attention to some of the memes authored in the game below. Many of which are already in place.
What's dangerous is to market an idea as acceptable in the minds of youth when in fact it is not.

Have you watched Gunsmoke before?

This notion routine violence is new to young people now and is creating killers, isn't one I'm keen to accept.

Not to mention drops in violent crime.

I can't really respect this field of opinion much.

[kcchiefs6465]

Yes, I do. That's why I wrote what I did. I was OK with Pong and Pac Man and all of that but now we are teaching our youth...marketing our youth...the art of killing. It's a way of thinking. A science. It's almost a mind control. One that is quite conforming to our geopolitical infrastructure as a whole as well. Of course, that's my opinion(although a quite educated one) but do you really think I cannot show you statistics, studies and surveys on just how far these corporations go to strategically market the minds of our youth? Cripes, I'm just the huckleberry for that job.

Don't take it personal. I blame Reagan and that brood of lobbyists back in the 80's. :rolleyes:

Of course, your argument carries merit as well. I get that. But no where near as much as mine.
Hmmm, how many millions of copies have been sold of FPS games? Pretty ineffective form of mind control when you look at the fact that violent crime is down. Not to mention there aren't millions of murderers every year.. or for that matter murders. Not to mention again that I (as well as everyone I know) play said video games and do not have homicidal urges nor delusions from reality. Your arguements are bullshit. I agree that they market the youth with flashy lights and gun sounds but in all honesty it falls on the parent to censor or not censor what they want their kid to play. Here's an arguement (word rather) that defeats any logical sentence you might retort; incrementalism. The propaganda is alive and well it seems. Perhaps we need a government nanny to decide what is appropriate? I would hate for kids to play or watch violent video games. Or maybe, just maybe, parents need to raise their own offspring instead of trying to place blame on everyone and everything but themselves for their fucked up child. Who very well could have been fucked up to begin with.

ETA: Do you really think this man would not have wound up hurting the baby anyways? He clearly is an unstable POS. Video games aren't the reason that many people are fucked up in the head. This baby would have been abused with or without the person playing video games.

[Natural Citizen]

You know. I don't really mind being neg repped. I mean, it's just a dot. At least be a little less shallow when doing it though. LOL? That's it? What the heck kind of 5 year old language is that? Gosh, I can't stand morons. Remarks should be a bit more thorough than just dropping lol if you're in such disagreement. Jiminy crickets.

[Natural Citizen]

Pretty ineffective form of mind control when you look at the fact that violent crime is down.

So are A's and B's. They are way down. How's that for mind control? Like you said. Sales are up. Right? Just not A's and B's, unfortunately. Have to rely on the H1B to get things done in America. Just because you defend feeding these youth this violent programming regardless of outcome or actions to follow 24/7 doesn't mean that's what it's all about. There are bigger things in the world than your video game.


Learn, dummy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qty1xqvQBrA

[Natural Citizen]

Have you watched Gunsmoke before?

This notion routine violence is new to young people now and is creating killers, isn't one I'm keen to accept.

Not to mention drops in violent crime.

I can't really respect this field of opinion much.

Well, sure. I watched Gunsmoke. But it came on once a week. I watched it, went out and played stick gun for a few minutes and got to carrying fire wood or whatever until supper. Wasn't fed to me 24/7. Which is actually my larger point. Youth are specifically targeted through specific marketing now. To be marketed 24/7. They are being marketed to remain loyal to the machine as long as they can keep their eyes open in front of the console or device as opposed to participating in real life situation. This notion of specifically targeting these youth for product marketing was sought and succeeded in the courts. And not just to have something to do as far as busy work. It was for a reason. And today we see youth bombarded constantly. Why do you think you're no longer refered to as citizen? You're refered to as consumer. Don't believe me? Listen. Won't take long to hear it. Turn on any news program. You'll be told your role. I promise.

But I understand the point you're trying to make. I do. At one time I would have agreed with you. Times have changed since the time that I would have agreed. They have changed drastically. Youth are specifically marketed to attach themselves to these memes 24/7.

[Natural Citizen]

Wow. Another neg rep. At least this one was colorful in his wisdom. They are a loyal brood of consumer. :rolleyes:

kcchiefs6465... you don't have the right temperament for the trade. Stick to games and leave the big boy stuff for big boys. OK?

[kcchiefs6465]

So are A's and B's. They are way down. How's that for mind control? Like you said. Sales are up. Right? Just not A's and B's, unfortunately. Have to rely on the H1B to get things done in America. Just because you defend feeding these youth this violent programming regardless of outcome or actions to follow 24/7 doesn't mean that's what it's all about. There are bigger things in the world than your video game.
Learn, dummy.

Perhaps people neg rep you with 'lol' because they don't feel you comprehend direct criticism. Though to be clear, I did not neg rep you until you started throwing insults around and I did leave a concise message that perhaps you can reread a few times over until you get it. A's and B's are down you say? And this statement is based on what exactly, your child? Where did I "defend feeding these youth this violent programming regardless of outcome or actions to follow 24/7?" Please outline which part of my post remotely advocated this. Then you follow with, "There are bigger things in the world than your video game." You don't say? I was unaware that anything occurs outside of my video game. Your authoritarian nature is evident by earlier posts as well as your ideal bubble wrapped society fantasies. What part of your posts advocate liberty? (You do realize this is a liberty forum, correct?) Do you have the vaguest idea of what the word truly means? From here it seems you are a bitter old man trying to push his perceived way of what society should be onto others who are only interested in being responsible for their own well being. So I have to ask. Why the fuck would you care if I played my video game 24/7? For all you know I could be a game tester and make a good living doing it. Would you be so opposed to just minding your own goddamn business and letting other people mind theirs? And seeing how you missed the point of my last post I feel I must spell it out again. INCREMENTALISM. Sound out my words and try real hard to understand what I am getting at. Take away my :rolleyes: video game and soon they'll be taking away your, whatever the hell gives your bitter soul pleasure. Think 'dummy.' [In case you still don't grasp what I am conveying- the video game aint the point]

[kcchiefs6465]

Wow. Another neg rep. At least this one was colorful in his wisdom. They are a loyal brood of consumer. :rolleyes:

kcchiefs6465... you don't have the right temperament for the trade. Stick to games and leave the big boy stuff for big boys. OK?
"Don't have the temperament for the trade?" What trade is that in which you are referring? Furthermore, what "big boy stuff" have you accomplished? (Assuming you mean advancing the cause of liberty? Though I do have suspicions that perhaps you stumbled into the wrong place) Aside from spreading word on the ills of targeted marketing, of course.

[Natural Citizen]

Take away my :rolleyes: video game and soon they'll be taking away your, whatever the hell gives your bitter soul pleasure.

Thaaank You. You've just proven my point. I imagine the child in the original post was the benefactor of that very logic. And it only took you a few post's to get riled up. I thought it would take more than that to bait one of you dummies. Perhaps I gave you more credit than you deserved. You cuss a lot, btw. Are you angry?

Anyhoo...I'm done with you now. Go play.

[kcchiefs6465]

Thaaank You. You've just proven my point. I imagine the child in the original post was the benefactor of that very logic. And it only took you a few post's to get riled up. I thought it would take more than that to bait one of you dummies. Perhaps I gave you more credit than you deserved. You cuss a lot, btw. Are you angry?

Anyhoo...I'm done with you now. Go play.
So.. me responding to your ignorance/insults somehow gets analogized into a two week old baby being punched in the face? And then you go further to make yourself look like a fool by trying to use a cop out of an excuse that your post was just "bait" to ensnare someone who plays video games into showing their "true side" of being unstable? Are you serious? And to respond to your question, no I am not angry, I am annoyed. I am annoyed that someone so virtually incapable having any reasonable thought process or logical discussion would have the audacity to tell anyone to, "learn dummy." And yet you wonder why your neg reps say "lol." Lol.

[Natural Citizen]

And then you go further to make yourself look like a fool by trying to use a cop out of an excuse that your post was just "bait" to ensnare someone who plays video games into showing their "true side" of being unstable?

Of course not. I didn't decide to go fishin until your brood showed up with the neg dot campaign. And it's the reactionary mindset itself that you demonstrated with that silly remark that was so predictable, to be clear. Which, btw, did actually remind me of the same reactionary mindset of topic here.

[jmdrake]

I never understood why people should have trials when they admit to the crime. Just skip to sentencing.

If someone pleads guilty there isn't a trial. There's either a plea bargain or a sentencing hearing. Sadly sometimes people plead guilty even with their guilt is in doubt because the offer their given for their plea is much better than the sentence their being threatened with because of overcharging. Of course it's impossible to overcharge in this case. :(

[ShaneEnochs]

Because of reading this story, I dreamed that I killed my own kid last night. It was sad :(

[kcchiefs6465]

Because of reading this story, I dreamed that I killed my own kid last night. It was sad :(
You mean because of video games...

[Kotin]

It's idiots like them... that empower the state to take control, then preventive control, and eventually, total control.


a very good point.. these people are constantly sought out and paraded in front of the rest of us to justify having a government and police state around..

[tod evans]

Oh for Pete's sake, blaming video games for violence is like those folks who blamed the movie "The Exorcist" for demonic possession...

It's entertainment and as an older dude I see nothing wrong with them so long as other stuff gets done...

[Natural Citizen]

Oh for Pete's sake, blaming video games for violence is like those folks who blamed the movie "The Exorcist" for demonic possession...

It's entertainment and as an older dude I see nothing wrong with them so long as other stuff gets done...

Not so much the games, per se. Although personally, I don't care for some of them. There's an entire process at work against youth. And it's a direct and specific process. People can profess that there is not but they are wrong. It's easy to say we're ok with it because we don't want a nanny state and all of the usual gab like that. We already have one though and unfortunately, these are the kinds of lobbyists in markets who, as I mentioned already, are the ones writing the rules. I just don't think enough people understand what government is made of now enough to throw around those silly ideologies. Laws are changing in a manner out of scope of citizens themselves and conforming to these entities model. And not really a business model but more of a socialogical one that paves a new path.These corporations are the nanny's doing the governing essentially. This is only one aspect of an example but is a good one. It actually really reminds me of the transhumanism discussion from last night. In a lot of ways. So many things many just do not take the time to understand or learn.

[phill4paul]

Blaming a video game for this infants death is like blaming guns for every crime that involves a gun.

[Natural Citizen]

Blaming a video game for this infants death is like blaming guns for every crime that involves a gun.

Of course, blaming them in some respect for the general mindset they acheive in placing into the heads of youth should be considered for discussion.

Several incidents speculated to be related to video games in recent decades have helped fuel controversy.

On November 22, 1997, thirteen-year-old Noah Wilson died when his friend Yancy stabbed him in the chest with a kitchen knife. The mother of Noah, Andrea Wilson, alleged that her son was stabbed to death because of an obsession with the Midway (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Midway_Games) game Mortal Kombat (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Mortal_Kombat). She alleged that Yancy S. was so obsessed with the game that he believed himself to be the character Cyrax (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Cyrax). This character purportedly uses a finishing move (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Fatality_(Mortal_Kombat)) which involves getting the opponent in a headlock and stabbing them in the chest. Although Wilson alleged that this was the reason for her son's death, the character Cyrax does not actually perform this move at all. The conclusion of Wilson v. Midway Games, Inc. was, according to the court case report, "Wilson's complaint fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted."


On April 20, 1999, 18-year-old Eric Harris and 17-year-old Dylan Klebold (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold) killed 12 students and a teacher in the Columbine High School massacre (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre). The two were allegedly obsessed (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Fixation_(psychology)) with the video game Doom (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Doom_(video_game)). Harris also created WADs (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Doom_WAD) for the game, and created a large mod (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Mod_(computer_gaming)) named "Tier" which he called his "life's work". Contrary to certain rumors, however, neither student had made a Doom level mimicking (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Mimicry) the school's layout, and there is no evidence the pair practiced the massacre in Doom.


In April 2000, 16-year-old Spanish teenager José Rabadán Pardo murdered his father, mother and his sister with a katana (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Katana), proclaiming that he was on an "avenging mission" by Squall Leonhart (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Squall_Leonhart), the main character (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Characters_of_Final_Fantasy_VIII) of the video game Final Fantasy VIII


In November 2001, 21-year-old American Shawn Woolley committed suicide after what his mother claimed was an addiction to EverQuest (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/EverQuest). Woolley's mother stated, "I think the way the game is written is that when you first start playing it, it is fun, and you make great accomplishments. And then the further you get into it, the higher level you get, the longer you have to stay on it to move onward, and then it isn't fun anymore. But by then you're addicted, and you can't leave it."


In February 2003, 16-year-old American Dustin Lynch was charged with aggravated murder and made an insanity defense (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Insanity_defense) that he was "obsessed" with Grand Theft Auto III (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_III). Long time video game opponent and former attorney Jack Thompson (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(activist)#Grand_Theft_Auto) encouraged the father of victim JoLynn Mishne to pass a note to the judge that said "the attorneys had better tell the jury about the violent video game that trained this kid [and] showed him how to kill our daughter, JoLynn. If they don't, I will."[83] (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/#cite_note-Hudak2-83) Lynch later retracted his insanity plea, and his mother Jerrilyn Thomas commented, "It has nothing to do with video games or Paxil (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Paroxetine), and my son's no murderer."


On June 7, 2003, 18-year-old American Devin Moore (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Devin_Moore_(murderer)) shot and killed two policemen and a dispatcher after grabbing one of the officers' weapons following an arrest for the possession of a stolen vehicle. At trial, the defense claimed that Moore had been inspired by the video game Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto:_Vice_City).


On June 25, 2003, two American step brothers, Joshua and William Buckner, aged 14 and 16, respectively, used a rifle to fire at vehicles on Interstate 40 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Interstate_40) in Tennessee (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Tennessee), killing a 45-year-old man and wounding a 19-year-old woman. The two shooters told investigators they had been inspired by Grand Theft Auto III (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_III).


On February 27, 2004 in Leicester (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Leicester), UK, 17-year-old Warren Leblanc lured 14-year-old Stefan Pakeerah into a park and murdered him by stabbing him repeatedly with a claw hammer (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Claw_hammer) and knife (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Knife). Leblanc was reportedly obsessed with Manhunt (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Manhunt_(video_game)), although investigation quickly revealed that the killer did not even own a copy of the game. The victim's mother Giselle Pakeerah has been campaigning against violent video games in the UK ever since. The police investigating the case have dismissed any link, as discussed in the relevant articles.


In October 2004, a 41-year-old Chinese man named Qiu Chengwei stabbed 26-year-old Zhu Caoyuan to death over a dispute regarding the sale of a virtual weapon the two had jointly won in the game The Legend of Mir 3 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/The_Legend_of_Mir_3).


On December 27, 2004, 13-year-old Xiao Yi committed suicide by jumping from a twenty-four story building in Tianjin (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Tianjin), China, as a result of the effects of his addiction (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Video_game_addiction), hoping to be "reunited" with his fellow gamers in the afterlife, according to his suicide notes. Prior to his death, he had spent 36 consecutive hours playing Warcraft III (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Warcraft_III:_Reign_of_Chaos).


In August 2005, 28-year-old South Korean Lee Seung Seop (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Lee_Seung_Seop) died after playing StarCraft (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/StarCraft) for 50 hours straight.


In June 2007, 22-year-old Alejandro Garcia from Texas shot and killed his cousin after arguing over whose turn it was to play the game Scarface: The World Is Yours (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Scarface:_The_World_Is_Yours). He pleaded guilty for murder at his trial on April 6, 2011, and will serve 15 to 30 years in prison.


In September 2007, a Chinese man in Guangzhou (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Guangzhou), China, died after playing Internet video games for three consecutive days in an Internet cafe.


In September 2007 in Ohio, 16-year-old Daniel Petric (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Daniel_Petric) snuck out of his bedroom window to purchase the game Halo 3 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Halo_3) against the orders of his father, a minister at New Life Assembly of God in Wellington, Ohio (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Wellington,_Ohio), U.S (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/U.S).[97] (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/#cite_note-97) His parents eventually banned him from the game after he spent up to 18 hours a day with it, and secured it in a lockbox in a closet where the father also kept a 9mm handgun, according to prosecutors. In October 2007, Daniel used his father's key to open the lockbox and remove the gun and the game. He then entered the living room of his house and shot both of them in the head, killing his mother and wounding his father. Petric is sentenced to life in prison without parole, which was later commuted (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Commutation_of_sentence) to 23 years in imprisonment.[99] (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/#cite_note-99) Defense attorneys argued that Petric was influenced by video game addiction, the court dismissed these claims. The judge, James Burge commented that while he thought there was ample evidence the boy knew what he was doing, Burge thought the game had affected him like a drug, saying "I firmly believe that Daniel Petric had no idea at the time he hatched this plot that if he killed his parents they would be dead forever."


In December 2007, 17-year-old Lamar Roberts and 16-year-old Heather Trujillo were accused of beating a seven-year-old girl to death. They are said to have been imitating the moves taken from the game "Mortal Kombat (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Mortal_Kombat)".


In December 2007, a Russian man was beaten to death over an argument in the MMORPG Lineage II (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Lineage_II). The man was killed when his guild (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Clan_(computer_gaming)) and a rival one challenged each other to a real-life brawl.


False reports initially claimed that Seung-Hui Cho (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Seung-Hui_Cho), the killer in the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre) was an avid Counter-Strike (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Counter-Strike) player. However, police reports said that roommates of Cho had never seen him play any video games. Despite these discoveries, disbarred attorney Jack Thompson (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(activist)) continued to erroneously claim (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(attorney)#Activism_and_lobbying) that video games were to blame.


In June 2008, four teens allegedly obsessed with Grand Theft Auto IV (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_IV) went on a crime spree after being in New Hyde Park, New York. They first robbed a man, knocking his teeth out and then they stopped a woman driving a black BMW (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/BMW) and stole her car and her cigarettes.


On August 2, 2008, Polwat Chinno, a 19-year-old Thai (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Thai_people) teenager, stabbed a Bangkok (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Bangkok) taxi driver to death during an attempt to steal the driver's cab in order to obtain money to buy a copy of Grand Theft Auto IV. A police official said that the teen was trying to copy (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Copycat_crimes) a similar act in the game. As a consequence, officials ordered the banning of the game itself and later the series (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_(series)), which led its distributor, New Era Interactive Media, to withdraw it, including the aforementioned, then-upcoming installment (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_IV), from shops across Thailand (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Thailand).


On October 13, 2008, the disappearance of Brandon Crisp (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Disappearance_of_Brandon_Crisp) and his subsequent death involving, according to his parents, obsessive playing of Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty_4:_Modern_Warfare) has been referenced in discussions about video game obsession and spawned a report aired by CBC's the fifth estate (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/The_fifth_estate) on video game addiction and Brandon's story titled "Top Gun", subtitled "When a video gaming obsession turns to addiction and tragedy".


In January 2010, 9-year-old Anthony Maldonado was stabbed by relative Alejandro Morales after an argument regarding Maldonado's recently purchased copy of Tony Hawk: Ride (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Tony_Hawk:_Ride) and PlayStation 3 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/PlayStation_3) console.


In January 2010, Gary Alcock punched, slapped and pinched his partner's 15-month-old daughter in the three weeks leading up to her death before he delivered a fatal blow to the stomach which tore her internal organs because she interrupted him playing his Xbox. She died from internal bleeding after suffering 35 separate injuries including multiple bruises, rib fractures and brain damage, which were comparable to injuries suffered in a car crash. Alcock was jailed for life and must serve at least 21 years.


In May 2010, French gamer Julien Barreaux located and stabbed a fellow player who had stabbed Barreaux on the game Counter-Strike. The judge at his trial called him "a menace to society."


On November 29, 2010 in South Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 16-year-old boy Kendall Anderson bludgeoned his mother to death in her sleep with a claw hammer after she took away his PlayStation (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/PlayStation).


On April 9, 2011 in Alphen Aan Den Rijn, The Netherlands, 24-year-old Tristan van der Vlis opened fire in a shopping mall, releasing more than a hundred bullets with a semi-automatic rifle and a handgun, killing 6 people and wounding 17 others, after which he also killed himself. A fair amount of attention was given to the fact that Van Der Vlis had been playing Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_2) and to the alleged similarities between the events in Alphen a/d Rijn and the controversial "No Russian" mission (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Call_of_Duty:_Modern_War fare_2) in the game (also known as the 'Airport Massacre') where the player can choose to (or choose not to) partake in the killing of a large group of innocent people inside an airport terminal.]
The rest of the general once over... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_controversy

[klamath]

I am not into banning anything but If my kids were young they would not be playing these games or watching violent movies. I have seen far too many kids act out on what they see or do. When they are old enough to know the difference then they can play. I suspect this guys mother let him play violent games since he was a kid.

[jmdrake]

Blaming a video game for this infants death is like blaming guns for every crime that involves a gun.

Bad analogy. There's no evidence (that I've seen anyway) of a gun altering someone's mental state. There is plenty of evidence of video games altering mental state. Guns get blamed because they are used as a tool of an already deranged person. If this miscreant had hit the child with a game controller than maybe your analogy would work. As it stands, a better analogy is "Blaming a video game for this infant's death is like blaming drugs/alcohol for every crime done under the influence."

[aGameOfThrones]

Bad analogy. There's no evidence (that I've seen anyway) of a gun altering someone's mental state. There is plenty of evidence of video games altering mental state. Guns get blamed because they are used as a tool of an already deranged person. If this miscreant had hit the child with a game controller than maybe your analogy would work. As it stands, a better analogy is "Blaming a video game for this infant's death is like blaming drugs/alcohol for every crime done under the influence."

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3H2JLRFCilc/Tlb02mh-DXI/AAAAAAAACEs/KT7ecFIF_mE/s1600/bad-cop.png

[Natural Citizen]

I am not into banning anything but If my kids were young they would not be playing these games or watching violent movies. I have seen far too many kids act out on what they see or do. When they are old enough to know the difference then they can play. I suspect this guys mother let him play violent games since he was a kid.

Banning the games isn't really my concern. It's the supply and demand of a prescribed way of thinking that I have an issue with. And it's targeted. They went to court in order to specifically be able to do that. Many automatically assume that people want to pee all over their free market (in effect though, it could be said that what we have are government controlled markets) logic and retort with generic nanny spew when in scope there is a much larger aspect of that particular discussion. But yes. I agree with you. It's the way of thinking that is lost in all of the discussion regarding the matter that is too often ignored. A simple growth versus survival meme. Two entirely different models.

[JustinTime]

It's idiots like them... that empower the state to take control, then preventive control, and eventually, total control.

You took the words out of my mouth. Its the fools among us who need the support of, and ultimately beg for, a strong authority, who are the root cause of the endless march of government.

And normally they to multiply like jack-rabbits.

[J_White]

i wonder if politicians would suggest having a Baby Licensing authority - so that only eligible people have babies.
On the other hand they might suggest having 24x7 cameras inside houses to prevent these kind of events.

[Natural Citizen]

On the other hand they might suggest having 24x7 cameras inside houses to prevent these kind of events.

Politicians don't suggest such things like that. They don't have to. Heck, they don't even get in on the gag until the dolts who put them in office demand that it be that way in the first place by essentially defending the very liberty of the clowns who are using the market to infiltrate their rights. And then eventually you end up with yet another government controlled market. And the people will love them for it. It's a hoot. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2244116/The-creepy-cable-box-detect-youre-cuddling-sofa-advert-condoms-automatically.html

Problem...Reaction...Solution.

[Uriah]

That's rather profound. I don't know that many will understand just how profound it is. Society is a very broad cast of characters in today's world. Which goes back to my comment on Reagan and the personhood these corporations benefitted from when achieving the "rights"...as people...of society...to market these youth in the constant manner that they do.

Society has been redefined. Society can only be held accountable in that particular regard. Until such a separation of the corporation and state exist we'll continue to remain under that illusion. I've read here tht we cannot hold these corporations accountable yet technically, as entities bearing the gift of personhood, they absolutely are considered to be a relevant aspect of society. Not one that I agree with personally or support but unfortunately that's how it is. Yet we only view ourselves as humans as the platform to be discussed as far as morals and accountability. Now, that's a much broader subject of discussion that is perhaps better left to other platforms to resolve but conforming to this thread regardless. Well...conforming to your words here. Which, as I said, are profound. At least I think so. As far as society itself is now understood, we the people are a very broad cast of characters. We need to fix that so that in thinking logically from a perspective of accountability from we the people, we have a clear and decisive means of benchmarking the notion.

Anyhow...as I said, it's best left for those who actually fight that fight. Excellent example as to why it needs to happen though, Uriah. Even if maybe you may not have meant it that way.

Many people believe that rights are something we possess separate from everything else. And that they are innate to us above all else. What is typically forgotten is the two sided nature of rights. Most of us here understand liberty and all that that entails but I haven't seen it outlined well. In my view of the nature of rights they are inseparable from responsibilities. Examining the order and structure of the world in which we live leads me to believe rights lead to responsibilities. And you have no responsibility if you have no rights. Mothers have a right to have children but if they do so, it is then their responsibility to protect and nurture their infant through adolescence. This is one example of a plethora.

Natural Citizen, you speak of accountability which definitely must be addressed. However, accountability only comes into play once an individual has already violated the rights of another. This is no light matter surely. A firm understanding of personal responsibility must be had and is of greater importance than merely punishing those whom violate rights of others to correct the insanity our society is amongst.

I am glad my words did not fall on deaf ears. This fight must be fought and I see it being fought daily. Some do not know they are fighting for it but when pushing a liberty agenda we as a movement are making inroads to the core morality of our country. It is a slow process and one that may not be seen if one is not looking. Liberty, when had eases the mind of a man by removing undue burdens and restrictions upon him. When a people are allowed to freely and rightfully travel and engage in commerce and the flow of ideas the human spirit prospers. The mind and heart of man is lighter and better for it. A sickness enters a man's soul when he is trampled upon by tyrants notably when he does not know his freedom has been trodden over like dirt of a racetrack.

[Victor Grey]

. . .Mortal Kombat. . . Doom. . . Final Fantasy VIII. . . EverQuest. . . Grand Theft Auto. . . Counter-Strike. . .StarCraft. . . Tony Hawk. . .WarCraft. . . Xbox. . . Playstation

I have played all of these.

Surely with all their dark wizardry combined, I should of at least have eaten one baby by now, or at the slightest tortured some puppies, or burned down a house or two. What's wrong with me.

Why I'm surprised I'm not 400 pounds, and rolling around in an ice cream truck nabbing old ladies with a potato sack like these 10 people.


Or, perhaps some people are simply crazy and the other multiple million aren't.

Some of the things written don't even make sense in context to the games depicted.

[dannno]

Bad analogy. There's no evidence (that I've seen anyway) of a gun altering someone's mental state. There is plenty of evidence of video games altering mental state. Guns get blamed because they are used as a tool of an already deranged person. If this miscreant had hit the child with a game controller than maybe your analogy would work. As it stands, a better analogy is "Blaming a video game for this infant's death is like blaming drugs/alcohol for every crime done under the influence."


Not true, guns can absolutely alter one's mental state. Many young boys throughout time fantasize about westerns, cops and robbers, wars, etc., all centering around gun battles.

If it wasn't video games, kids would be still be fantasizing about gun battles. If it wasn't for guns, kids would be fantasizing about spears and swords or something. It's natural, and it can be healthy if it is directed properly.

I haven't seen any proof that video games increase violence, I tend to think that video games decrease violence because it creates a virtual outlet for people to live out those types of fantasies without having to deal with the repercussions such as actual injury and death.

[kcchiefs6465]

Does anyone believe that there wasn't a case of a father beating a baby to death before video games? Natural? In case you haven't realized this world, in all it's beauty, is still a cruel and unforgiving place. The baby in this case would have been abused with or without the games. Some people are just fucking sick. On another note, can video games be counter productive? Of course they can. The same can be said about the television, the internet, drugs, alcohol, etc. 'In moderation' is the key to any habit. I tend to let people make their own decisions/not care unless I'm affected by said decisions.

[Natural Citizen]

Does anyone believe that there wasn't a case of a father beating a baby to death before video games?

Of course there was. Will certainly be another case similar to these notions today. And tomorrow. And the next day. And many days to follow.

[Natural Citizen]

Many people believe that rights are something we possess separate from everything else. And that they are innate to us above all else. What is typically forgotten is the two sided nature of rights. Most of us here understand liberty and all that that entails but I haven't seen it outlined well. In my view of the nature of rights they are inseparable from responsibilities. Examining the order and structure of the world in which we live leads me to believe rights lead to responsibilities. And you have no responsibility if you have no rights. Mothers have a right to have children but if they do so, it is then their responsibility to protect and nurture their infant through adolescence. This is one example of a plethora.

Natural Citizen, you speak of accountability which definitely must be addressed. However, accountability only comes into play once an individual has already violated the rights of another. This is no light matter surely. A firm understanding of personal responsibility must be had and is of greater importance than merely punishing those whom violate rights of others to correct the insanity our society is amongst.

I am glad my words did not fall on deaf ears. This fight must be fought and I see it being fought daily. Some do not know they are fighting for it but when pushing a liberty agenda we as a movement are making inroads to the core morality of our country. It is a slow process and one that may not be seen if one is not looking. Liberty, when had eases the mind of a man by removing undue burdens and restrictions upon him. When a people are allowed to freely and rightfully travel and engage in commerce and the flow of ideas the human spirit prospers. The mind and heart of man is lighter and better for it. A sickness enters a man's soul when he is trampled upon by tyrants notably when he does not know his freedom has been trodden over like dirt of a racetrack.

If one were to read over transcript of Ron's farewell words of advice, he made very similar points as you have here. Perhaps not in so many words but along the same frequency.

[BlackTerrel]

Lock him up, tell all the other prisoners what he did, and let them beat him to death.

And why are we against capital punishment again? Why go through a middleman?

[Origanalist]

R.I.P. baby Khan. :(


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK97_EKBqA8&feature=player_detailpage