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aGameOfThrones
11-17-2012, 02:56 PM
Anybody who knows Oklahoma District Court Judge Mike Norman probably yawned at the news that he'd sentenced a teen offender to attend church as part of his probation arrangement, and that the judge's pastor was in the courtroom at the time.

Not only had he handed down such a sentence before, but he'd required one man to bring the church program back with him when he reported to court.

"The Lord works in many ways," Norman, 69, told ABC News today. "I've done a little bit of this kind of thing before, but never on such a serious charge."

Norman sentenced Tyler Alred, 17, Tuesday after he pleaded guilty to first-degree manslaughter in August for killing friend and passenger John Luke Dum in a car crash.

Dum died on impact in December after Alred crashed his Chevrolet pickup truck, ejecting Dum. Alred was 16 at the time of the crash and had been drinking prior to the deadly accident.

Oklahoma Highway Patrol issued a Breathalyzer at the time, and although Alred was under the state's legal alcohol limit, he had been drinking underage.

The judge could have sent Alred to jail but, instead, taking into account his clean criminal and school records, sentenced him to wear a drug and alcohol bracelet, participate in counseling groups and attend a church of his choosing - weekly. He must also graduate from high school.

To avoid jail time, Norman gave Alred a maximum 10-year deferred sentence.


http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/oklahoma-judge-sentences-teen-church-10-years-204920227--abc-news-topstories.html

BSU kid
11-18-2012, 12:46 AM
What kind of bizarre courtroom is this? What ever happened to separation of church and state...egads.

Muwahid
11-18-2012, 01:06 AM
Besides the Church thing the judge mighta helped him instead of turning him into a criminal. Just wonder how he treats non Christians

VIDEODROME
11-18-2012, 01:36 AM
Seems like there would have to be a secular alternative.

camp_steveo
11-18-2012, 09:44 AM
abuse of power

Aeroneous
11-18-2012, 09:59 AM
...I'd rather go to prison.

angelatc
11-18-2012, 10:33 AM
This should be interesting. The young liberals will assert that he would be less harmed by homosexual rape in prison, I suspect.

jkr
11-18-2012, 10:36 AM
maybe it can help, i bet he is pretty f'ed in the head right now

and yes, better than a rape cage that WE ALL have to pay for

Confederate
11-18-2012, 10:49 AM
Seems like there would have to be a secular alternative.

There is, that's why these sentences have been ruled constitutional.

Confederate
11-18-2012, 10:50 AM
This should be interesting. The young liberals will assert that he would be less harmed by homosexual rape in prison, I suspect.

Yeah, instead of sending this teen, who obviously made a mistake he's going to regret and live with the guilt for the rest of his life, to prison for 10+ years where he would likely become a drug addicted quasi-homosexual gang member he gave the kid the opportunity to make amends, strengthen his relationship with God and have a shot at a "normal" life. What an evil jackass the judge is...


After completing the rest of the requirements in his sentence, Alred will have the charge removed from his record.

"Only time will tell if we've saved Tyler Alred's life," the judge said.

This is the exact kind of judge this country needs more of.

Confederate
11-18-2012, 10:54 AM
What kind of bizarre courtroom is this? What ever happened to separation of church and state...egads.

I've never seen that phrase anywhere in the Constitution.

jkr
11-18-2012, 10:58 AM
I've never seen that phrase anywhere in the Constitution. because it it not there...just like" death by taxes"...i mean "death AND taxes"

Victor Grey
11-18-2012, 11:01 AM
...I'd rather go to prison.

Well you do have your principles I guess.

LibertyEagle
11-18-2012, 11:17 AM
...I'd rather go to prison.

And it sounds like you would have had that option.

John F Kennedy III
11-18-2012, 11:43 AM
This should be interesting. The young liberals will assert that he would be less harmed by homosexual rape in prison, I suspect.

They would certainly argue that it is less forceful.

opal
11-18-2012, 11:51 AM
that just has wrong sauce all over it.
and his 10 year sentence is also defered .. not suspended so he's going to have to go anyway, right? or did I read that wrong.

QuickZ06
11-18-2012, 11:53 AM
Nvm Confederate answered the question. Other secular options and he does have the choice of this or prison.

AFPVet
11-18-2012, 11:56 AM
Some judges have also sentenced people to military service. Heck, if it meant a deferred conviction, I'd take about anything.

CaptainAmerica
11-18-2012, 12:10 PM
This should be interesting. The young liberals will assert that he would be less harmed by homosexual rape in prison, I suspect.

totally irrelevant.What if judges allover America began sentencing traffic "violators" to religious buildings?

Confederate
11-18-2012, 12:12 PM
totally irrelevant.What if judges allover America began sentencing traffic "violators" to religious buildings?

The kid had the option of choosing prison or this sentence. There are also secular options, which is why this kind of sentence has been ruled constitutional.

Confederate
11-18-2012, 12:13 PM
that just has wrong sauce all over it.
and his 10 year sentence is also defered .. not suspended so he's going to have to go anyway, right? or did I read that wrong.

No. If he completes this alternate sentencing he will never see the inside of a prison and will have this conviction removed from him record.

QuickZ06
11-18-2012, 12:13 PM
Thanks for the details Confederate.

jonhowe
11-18-2012, 12:18 PM
Clearly this is better than prison, but clearly this should not be allowed. If the judge told the kid to go to mosque for 10 years people would be furious. No member of the government should mandate religious practice.

BAllen
11-18-2012, 12:25 PM
What kind of church is it? A multi-culti, pro gay, whites are evil, marxist church?
That would be worse.

Bodhi
11-18-2012, 12:30 PM
There is, that's why these sentences have been ruled constitutional.

"It's not going to be automatic, I guarantee you," Norman said of the church sentence on future manslaughter charges. "There are a lot of people who say I can't do what I did. They're telling me I can't legally sentence someone to church."

I'm not seeing that in the article, if there are secular alternatives then I think the judge made a good decision if there are not, well that has wrong written all over it.

Ender
11-18-2012, 01:14 PM
Clearly this is better than prison, but clearly this should not be allowed. If the judge told the kid to go to mosque for 10 years people would be furious. No member of the government should mandate religious practice.

As a minister, we help people who must do mandated community service all the time.

Obviously the pastor was involved, as he was at the sentencing, and obviously the young man agreed; this is NOT unconstitutional. I see nothing wrong in this- much more wrong with sentencing him to prison and ruining his entire life. And if the kid was a Muslim, then a mosque would be the correct place for him to serve.

Also- there is NO separation of church and state in the Constitution- there is only "Congress shall make NO LAW regarding religion"- which has obviously been misused with the unconstitutional handling of "separation of church and state".

Danan
11-18-2012, 01:25 PM
And if the kid was a Muslim, then a mosque would be the correct place for him to serve.

What if he was an atheist? Would he only give him the opiton of prison?

Ender
11-18-2012, 01:28 PM
What if he was an atheist? Would he only give him the opiton of prison?

There are many service options for atheists. He would have had to have a service leader that agreed to be part of the sentencing. Obviously the pastor agreed to this and to help the kid.

Many of the people we help with service are not religious but they appreciate the chance to serve and to stay out of prison.

Confederate
11-18-2012, 01:34 PM
What if he was an atheist? Would he only give him the opiton of prison?

There are secular options that can be worked out in these kinds of sentences.