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Lucille
11-12-2012, 02:04 PM
Can the Feds Stop Colorado and Washington From Legalizing Pot?
http://reason.com/blog/2012/11/12/can-the-feds-stop-colorado-and-washingto


After voters in Colorado and Washington approved the legalization of marijuana last week, Justice Department spokeswoman Nanda Chitre declared that "the Department's enforcement of the Controlled Substances Act remains unchanged." If so, the feds will treat state-legal sales of marijuana for recreational use the same way they have treated state-legal sales of marijuana for medical use: with periodic raids, threats of forfeiture and prosecution, and various other forms of harassment that fall far short of closing down all the cannabis outlets. But the Obama administration also could try to avoid that embarrassing outcome through litigation aimed at preventing Colorado and Washington from implementing their plans to license and regulate the production and sale of marijuana.

In an interview with Politico, former Drug Enforcement Administration head Asa Hutchison concedes that the federal government cannot force states to ban marijuana but argues that "you can go in and say the state does not have the authority to set up a regulatory environment." Hutchison, who ran the DEA during George W. Bush's first term, envisions a lawsuit that will "have the courts decide finally that federal law trumps and that the state law violates the federal law." But even if we concede the validity of the Controlled Substances Act (which requires accepting an absurdly broad interpretation of the Commerce Clause), it is not clear how, exactly, the Colorado and Washington initiatives violate it.

"There are provisions in both of the initiatives that unambiguously violate federal law,” claims Kevin Sabet, a former Obama administration drug policy adviser. For instance, he says, "the fact that you can buy marijuana at the store" is "clearly in violation." Well, yes, the people selling marijuana definitely are violating federal law, but that does not make the laws under which they are licensed invalid. The Controlled Substances Act (CSA) suggests otherwise:


No provision of this subchapter shall be construed as indicating an intent on the part of the Congress to occupy the field in which that provision operates, including criminal penalties, to the exclusion of any State law on the same subject matter which would otherwise be within the authority of the State, unless there is a positive conflict between that provision of this subchapter and that State law so that the two cannot consistently stand together.

According to the Supreme Court, a "positive conflict" exists "when it is impossible to comply with both state and federal law." But neither Colorado's Amendment 64 nor Washington's Initiative 502 requires anyone to grow or sell marijuana. One can readily comply with both state and federal law simply by choosing not to go into the cannabis business. Both laws are written so that they merely explain the criteria people must satisfy to avoid prosecution for marijuana offenses under state law. "Notwithstanding any other provision of law," begins the section of Amendment 64 dealing with marijuana growers and sellers, "the following acts are not unlawful and shall not be an offense under Colorado law." I-502 likewise says "the production, possession, delivery, distribution, and sale of marijuana in accordance with the provisions of this act and the rules adopted to implement and enforce it, by a validly licensed marijuana producer, shall not be a criminal or civil offense under Washington state law."

More at the link.

Anti Federalist
11-12-2012, 02:25 PM
Jury nullification.

Every Fed prosecution ends in acquittal.

AGRP
11-12-2012, 02:31 PM
Jury nullification.

Every Fed prosecution ends in acquittal.

I dont even think that is necessary, even though it is still needed. Any defendant should be able to explain what it means to be an individual state and the will of the voters.

fisharmor
11-12-2012, 02:31 PM
The question for the next couple years is whether Colorado and Washington are going to accept the fact that federal agents are going to be crawling up their asses soon.
I hope to see a standoff between federal and state forces.
I expect to be disappointed.

MozoVote
11-12-2012, 02:38 PM
I would assume the Feds can harass the state governments sufficiently to block the licensing schemes if they want to. The problem however is when the states and cities expend no effort at enforcement, prohibition is just about toothless down at the individual level.

Tod
11-12-2012, 03:15 PM
expansion of federal drug task forces, anyone?

"In today's news, federal agents raided 6 homes in Colorado Springs with a span of 3 hours, starting at 4 am. Arrested were Thomas....."

The big thing taking the wind out of a state's sails is when the state accepts federal money and the feds hold that over the state's head: "you won't get any money..."

jkob
11-12-2012, 03:30 PM
I imagine those highway funds are going to be withheld

Lucille
11-12-2012, 03:54 PM
I imagine those highway funds are going to be withheld

Another reason why I hate gov't roads! Let them. It was the same blackmail that lead to the federal drinking age. States can fix their own damn roads, and then lower the drinking age back to 18 (or lower).

fisharmor
11-12-2012, 03:59 PM
I imagine those highway funds are going to be withheld

It's also possible that Colorado could pass another voter initiative saying they're not sending the money to Washington in the first place.

And again, I expect to be disappointed.

Origanalist
11-12-2012, 04:05 PM
fisharmor, I think your expectations will be fulfilled.

"Can the Feds Stop Colorado and Washington From Legalizing Pot?"

Of course, they do pretty much whatever they please clear across the planet at the moment. Will they? I have no idea.....

acptulsa
11-12-2012, 04:16 PM
It's also possible that Colorado could pass another voter initiative saying they're not sending the money to Washington in the first place.

And again, I expect to be disappointed.

This is the crux. The prohibition against marijuana, like the 55 mph speed limit, is a product of excessive taxation. Both Colorado and Washington have to spend a lot on roads, both because of snowy climates and because of mountainous terrain.

These federal taxes, which remove funds from cash-strapped citizens that states could otherwise tap, are a key component of the growing tyranny. We would serve our cause well to target them.

AFPVet
11-12-2012, 04:17 PM
Well, if more states follow suite, O's going to have to really think about decriminalization at the very least.

tod evans
11-12-2012, 04:22 PM
This will no doubt be interesting.

The feds are evil so hopefully the states have a plan...

MozoVote
11-12-2012, 04:23 PM
My assumption until proven otherwise, is that Colorado and the Feds will negotiate something. Colorado is politically competitive, and I'm sure Obama wants to bestow its votes to another Democrat in 4 years.

robert9712000
11-12-2012, 04:24 PM
I would gladly pay a tax on pot if it went to replacing money the Feds give the state

youngbuck
11-12-2012, 04:30 PM
I would gladly pay a tax on pot if it went to replacing money the Feds give the state

That's be a solid win-win for us. ...We can only hope.

surf
11-12-2012, 04:44 PM
i've been pleasantly surprised by what has happened so far in Washngton: most, if not all local prosecutors on the west side of the cascades are dropping all pending non-violent posession charges immediately, as well as not accepting further cases and not waiting until the December 6th date when this law goes into effect. wow.

the AG elect has stated that he will defend the will of the people with vigor. didn't vote for him, but am proud of his stance here.

governor elect, a former d congressman that claimed he would defer to the feds on this during the campaign, barely won so he should fall in line as well.

this issue may have been swayed heavily by the revenue aspect, but the freedom issue was at the top of many peoples list. the backlash of openly challenging this would not be pretty (remember, we burned the city real good when democrats were pushing globlization on us).

in short, if Obama wants to keep this place in democratic hands he'll have his cadre of lawyers find ways that Washington State's new law works (i know, how many lawyers does it take to "interpret" the 10th amendment...). then they'll hope it goes away and they never have to acknowledge or respect state's rights again.

my prediction.

Carehn
11-12-2012, 04:49 PM
Jury nullification.

Every Fed prosecution ends in acquittal.

I think this would fall under a federal grand jury. that means every person on the jury will be this chick
http://i.imgur.com/A3hB8.jpg

fisharmor
11-12-2012, 06:30 PM
This is the crux. The prohibition against marijuana, like the 55 mph speed limit, is a product of excessive taxation. Both Colorado and Washington have to spend a lot on roads, both because of snowy climates and because of mountainous terrain.
But the thing is, they DON'T "have" to spend a lot on roads.

The roads were installed because Eisenhower noticed how easy it was to conquer Germany with a national road system in place.
And apparently nobody here thought ill of the idea of doing the same thing here. :rolleyes:

There was already a road system in place before the interstate system, and it worked wonderfully.
It was the road system that enabled the economy and the logistics that really were the ultimate reason for Eisenhower winning in the first place.
And it was private.

acptulsa
11-12-2012, 06:41 PM
But the thing is, they DON'T "have" to spend a lot on roads.

The roads were installed because Eisenhower noticed how easy it was to conquer Germany with a national road system in place.
And apparently nobody here thought ill of the idea of doing the same thing here. :rolleyes:

There was already a road system in place before the interstate system, and it worked wonderfully.
It was the road system that enabled the economy and the logistics that really were the ultimate reason for Eisenhower winning in the first place.
And it was private.

Well, I don't know...

Yes the state highways were wonderful, except they tended not to connect. Not so good for the national economy. The U.S. highway system (white shields) cured that, and without federal highway taxes. Just a little coordination out of Washington without strongarm tactics and onerous federal taxation. But neither was exactly private.

As for Colorado, they derive major revenues from both tourism and having one of the major transcontinental through routes in their state. So, no, they're not going to consider letting I-70 and I-25 go to seed. Sounds neat but don't count on it.

FrancisMarion
11-12-2012, 07:46 PM
Just dropping an aside:

From a local South Carolina Poll:

http://media10.dropshots.com/photos/525558/20121112/204205.jpg