Should we elect the President by popular vote or electoral college?

[John F Kennedy III]

And why?

[Odin]

Electoral college, not for any reason in particular other than not wanting the United States to become a "democracy". We still have a semblance of the Republic that the Founding Fathers left, but I feel like instituting a popular vote would undermine that further.

[Origanalist]

I think they should be elected by RPF's.

[youngbuck]

Avoid democracy/mob-rule, and allow the states to be properly represented on the national level. It's as the founders intended.

An another note, state legislatures should still elect congressional Senator, instead of them being elected by direct vote. Repeal the 17th amendment.

James Madison: "[T]he State Legislatures will jealously and closely watch the operations of this Government, and be able to resist with more effect every assumption of power, than any other power on earth can do; and the greatest opponents to a Federal Government admit the State Legislatures to be sure guardians of the people’s liberty."

[CaptUSA]

Electoral college.

You think it's bad having Presidential candidates just visting swing states, just wait til they just visit the big cities! LA, NY, Chicago, Houston, and Philly... How do you think that's gonna turn out?

[alucard13mmfmj]

Popular vote will never be on the liberty movement's side on a national scale. Ron Paul only had a small chance in the GOP nomination process because he had good showing in caucus states and had shadow delegates.

The average voter is too brainwashed or repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

[Origanalist]

Popular vote will never be on the liberty movement's side on a national scale. Ron Paul only had a small chance in the GOP nomination process because he had good showing in caucus states and had shadow delegates.

The average voter is too brainwashed or repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

yup

[Origanalist]

Electoral college.

You think it's bad having Presidential candidates just visting swing states, just wait til they just visit the big cities! LA, NY, Chicago, Houston, and Philly... How do you think that's gonna turn out?

Like this, http://townhall.com/tipsheet/heatherginsberg/2012/11/11/philadelphia_came_out_in_astronomical_numbers_for_ obama

[Origanalist]

+ rep to all, the only benefit a popular vote would bring is the hastened downfall of the society. But if that's what you're looking for it would be a great tool.

[MozoVote]

Sandy gave me some newfound respect for the Electorial college. What if the disaster had been even worse, and voting was not conducted on a wide scale? The impacted states still could cast their full Electoral Vote.

[adisongrace]

Electoral College is a controlled matrix. True candidates under this system are subverted
and our votes are ignored. We need to move towards fair and equal elections for true
change in America.

[John F Kennedy III]

Sandy gave me some newfound respect for the Electorial college. What if the disaster had been even worse, and voting was not conducted on a wide scale? The impacted states still could cast their full Electoral Vote.

Great example :)

[RockEnds]

Electoral college.

You think it's bad having Presidential candidates just visting swing states, just wait til they just visit the big cities! LA, NY, Chicago, Houston, and Philly... How do you think that's gonna turn out?

I just gave a talk on the EC to my daughter's home school group, and this was exactly what I attempted to communicate.

[oyarde]

We may have arrived at a point where it does not matter as much , half the population does not vote , I have no faith in the half that does.

[heavenlyboy34]

Avoid democracy/mob-rule, and allow the states to be properly represented on the national level. It's as the founders intended.

An another note, state legislatures should still elect congressional Senator, instead of them being elected by direct vote. Repeal the 17th amendment.

James Madison: "[T]he State Legislatures will jealously and closely watch the operations of this Government, and be able to resist with more effect every assumption of power, than any other power on earth can do; and the greatest opponents to a Federal Government admit the State Legislatures to be sure guardians of the people’s liberty." He was mostly wrong about that...but I've been unhappy with the 17th for many many moons. :P

[heavenlyboy34]

We may have arrived at a point where it does not matter as much , half the population does not vote , I have no faith in the half that does. +rep Most of those who do vote are really too ignorant to do so on top of that.

[Origanalist]

We may have arrived at a point where it does not matter as much , half the population does not vote , I have no faith in the half that does.


Mpppf, there you go spouting reality again......

[adisongrace]

We may have arrived at a point where it does not matter as much , half the population does not vote , I have no faith in the half that does.

Our votes aren't fully counted... Look at provisional ballots. Our vote in the current system is manipulated to their will.

[beaven]

Change for the sake of change is always bad. There is no moral reason to use one system over the other so we should stick with what we've got. The idea is that states have a say, which is commendable. I think states should try to reinforce that on the state/local level.

[NoOneButPaul]

I like the electoral system but wish it was calculated by individual districts instead of states.

That way the entire element of swing states could be removed entirely.

[itshappening]

Someone posted here about how some College votes are split by Congressional district in Maine and Nebraska

I think we definitely need to look at this if Republicans hope to take the presidency, in states like PA.

We need to have control of a chamber and governorship to get it done.

Does anyone have a list of states with that setup and who give their college votes to dems, where we could push for this ?

[youngbuck]

I like the electoral system but wish it was calculated by individual districts instead of states.

That way the entire element of swing states could be removed entirely.

At first thought, that seems like an excellent idea. That would help remove the ridiculous level of sway that so many socialist metro areas have in controlling a given state.

[ShaneEnochs]

I think each state's electoral votes should be distributed based on percentage instead of winner take all.

[UMULAS]

I rather want state legislatures to vote in the election representing the people; democracy is horrible.

[itshappening]

At first thought, that seems like an excellent idea. That would help remove the ridiculous level of sway that so many socialist metro areas have in controlling a given state.

we need a list of states where the GOP controls the chamber and the governorship and where the socialist urban areas drown everyone else out in a presidential election.

I suspect it is a very small list but a state like PA is ripe for this kind of system just to make it more fair.

[Agorism]

Electoral

[oyarde]

Ohio is like that ( Cleveland ) , Penn is like that( Philly )....

[SWATH]

Electoral college. To prevent a the republic from further slipping into a democracy. Repeal the 17th amendment as well.

Oh and the electoral college would work a lot better than it does if you also repealed the apportionment act of 1911 (which went into effect in 1913). You would have around 30,000 reps and thus 30,000 electors instead of 435 reps and 538 electors.

Lastly electors should be free and independent agents, unbound and free to vote their conscious as was intended.

[Carson]

Last man standing?

[Smart3]

We need a fair electoral college - one electoral vote per congressional district, with two awarded to the winner of the state overall. Every vote would count, even a vote for Romney in California or for Obama in Texas.

Imagine how many electoral votes Obama would have received in Texas - he won all the major cities!

[juleswin]

And how should we elect people to the electoral college? If you answer is they should be appointed by some elected official, then I will ask again, How should we elect those elected officials who appoint the members to the electoral college? Whatever that method is, is what we should use to elect the POTUS. No fricken need keeping the middleman round. The constitution, nullification and succession is all you need to protect small states, anything more is just affirmative action and voter welfare

One man, one vote

[sailingaway]

electoral college. STates joined with the understanding they would have more influence on the executive than that and now that the President is ruling as dictator it is all the more important.

[juleswin]

Popular vote will never be on the liberty movement's side on a national scale. Ron Paul only had a small chance in the GOP nomination process because he had good showing in caucus states and had shadow delegates.

The average voter is too brainwashed or repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

But why do you expect the people behind the electoral college to be any more sympathetic to our cause? For all we know, they could all be establishment types who would vote against us no matter what. Dont get me wrong, I don't like democracy either but give a choice between a democratic republic with popular vote and a democratic republic with middlemen deciding, I will choice the former.

[juleswin]

Electoral college.

You think it's bad having Presidential candidates just visting swing states, just wait til they just visit the big cities! LA, NY, Chicago, Houston, and Philly... How do you think that's gonna turn out?

Yea, cos is worse than what we have now. The way we have it now, once a candidate knows that he cannot get more than 50% of a states vote, there is no reason whatsoever to visit that state. But with a popular vote election, a candidate will still find a need to throw some attention to those states where he will not get the majority vote.

Here in Nebraska, I can honestly tell you that I did not see any presidential ad on TV. Yes, I barely watched TV but I still saw a bunch of other federal race's ads the few times I did watch TV.

[NoOneButPaul]

We need a fair electoral college - one electoral vote per congressional district, with two awarded to the winner of the state overall. Every vote would count, even a vote for Romney in California or for Obama in Texas.

Imagine how many electoral votes Obama would have received in Texas - he won all the major cities!

And here in Illinois imagine how many Romney would have received... Obama only won the major cities (Chicago and St. Louis) and lost just about every other district.

The entire election would have been a totally different game, and it's a lot better doing it by the districts because it forces the candidates to go across the entire country instead of just a few states that matter.

The problem with the electoral college is they are using direct democracy at the state level to dictate where the votes go. Obama should not get all of Illinois' votes and Romney should not get all of Texas' and vice versa.

Each individual district is the best way to do it, I think voter turnout would surge to unprecedented levels not seen in the 20th or 21st century. You'd be 1 out of 600k instead of 1 out of the state.

Certain districts could actually get 3rd parties candidates electoral votes... but the whole 270 bench mark would have to be done away with and you'd have to declare the winner by whoever got the most votes total.

I've given this a lot of thought as someone who has lived in Illinois their entire life...

[juleswin]

I think each state's electoral votes should be distributed based on percentage instead of winner take all.

aka popular vote democracy.

[juleswin]

I rather want state legislatures to vote in the election representing the people; democracy is horrible.

But we don't have a pure democracy. See, in a democracy, the citizen can vote to say take away your guns, limit your speech etc etc but you cant do it in this country no matter if we are using the electoral college or popular vote to elect the POTUS.

[supermario21]

I like the idea of congressional district voting. It would also make state elections much more important. With Republicans doing very well at the state level, the CD maps have been carved in Ohio for example to strongly favor Republicans (12-4). With a large share of rural, urban, and swing districts, that model would truly be the best. Even in the swing states, the interests of people in Cleveland and Philadelphia for example almost exclusively determine who wins those states.

[juleswin]

Electoral college. To prevent a the republic from further slipping into a democracy. Repeal the 17th amendment as well.

Oh and the electoral college would work a lot better than it does if you also repealed the apportionment act of 1911 (which went into effect in 1913). You would have around 30,000 reps and thus 30,000 electors instead of 435 reps and 538 electors.

Lastly electors should be free and independent agents, unbound and free to vote their conscious as was intended.

Repealing the 17th amendment would only fix things if you also repealed all the suffrage acts that gave all sorts of groups the right to vote. I am not saying we shouldn't allow women or minorities the right to vote but we should have conditions attached to it. Tax payers, active duty military etc etc. You are comparing apples and oranges if you think its going to be the same if we just repealed the 17th amendment in a time when everybody above 21 yrs can vote.

[oyarde]

The only person I trust to select a President is , me .

[Original_Intent]

If we are talking election reform, there are a few higher priorities IMO.

1st, election fraud should result in loss of citizenship if a citizen, and deportation if not a citizen. And large scale election fraud, such as Diebold, ACORN, etc. should be a capital offense (see:Treason)

2nd, all ballots should be hand tallied, and cast in such a way to provide no opportunity for shenanigans. There should be a transparent custodianship of the ballots.

Get those two things taken care of, or the question of us vs. electoral college is meaningless.

[Cabal]

Go with a inherited monarchy. Then we don't have to waste time, money, and energy on the circus of BS elections.

[anaconda]

I think they should be elected by RPF's.

This may be the last post on the Ron Paul Forums that ever needs to be spoken.

[John F Kennedy III]

Electoral college. To prevent a the republic from further slipping into a democracy. Repeal the 17th amendment as well.

Oh and the electoral college would work a lot better than it does if you also repealed the apportionment act of 1911 (which went into effect in 1913). You would have around 30,000 reps and thus 30,000 electors instead of 435 reps and 538 electors.

Lastly electors should be free and independent agents, unbound and free to vote their conscious as was intended.

Do you support the House being 30,000 members?

[Qdog]

we should keep the electoral college, but create 300 million states with a population of 1.

[Shane Harris]

Abolish the Executive Branch. Articles of Confederation FTW

[SewrRatt]

Let's just not elect a president anymore.

[Confederate]

we should keep the electoral college, but create 300 million states with a population of 1.

Then each state would have 3 electoral votes.

[Confederate]

Let's just not elect a president anymore.

We don't. We elect people to elect a president.

[idiom]

Do you support the House being 30,000 members?

Hooray for small government?

Session is in at Capitol Stadium?

It would be more responsive thats fo shure.

[SewrRatt]

Let's just not elect a president anymore.


We don't. We elect people to elect a president.

If you want to get technical, we ineffectually paw at a screen which then increments whatever arbitrary number its programmers want it to increment, representing pretend votes for people who then elect a fuhr.... I mean, president.

[mport1]

How about we don't elect rulers in the first place? Problem solved.

[tmg19103]

You all realize it was the federalists who supported a U.S. Constitution without a Bill of rights and the Electoral College?

The Electoral College came about from those who wanted a strong federal government and being able to control swing states allowed them to control who they wanted in office. God forbid they let the people decide.

The argument is that it protects the "rights" of smaller states. That makes no sense to me. The president is not supposed to have power over the states except in an extremely limited capacity.

The reason Madison (champion of the Bill of rights) could not get the popular vote to happen was slavery in the south and the fear the slaves might some day be able to vote.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Admittedly, it's irksome to hear so much about Ohio every four years. But their relevance is only perceived as unfairly high because the state has a decent number of electoral votes and is closer in its voting than, say, Washington D.C.

Change it to a popular vote system, and it becomes all about pandering to urban voters. No thanks.

[american.swan]

The government should not be larger than the number of*voters it can fit into a single room when it's raining. In other words, bodies are required to vote. If you don't care, don't go to the meeting. No paper or bizarre voting.

[Tpoints]

whatever gets Ron Paul elected.

[angelatc]

I think each state's electoral votes should be distributed based on percentage instead of winner take all.

The states have the ability to assign them any ol' way they choose.

[angelatc]

Do you support the House being 30,000 members?

I do! That would be the end of the 2 party system for starts.

[John F Kennedy III]

I do! That would be the end of the 2 party system for starts.

Oh yes :) And imagine the size of the building! And then the Senate is 8,000...

[RonPaulFanInGA]

I do! That would be the end of the 2 party system for starts.

Over sixty times more federal politicians in the U.S. House sounds like a bad idea.

And then there would still be 100 U.S. Senators, because the Constitution mandates two Senators for each state regardess of size.