Rand Paul 2016 - Join, or Die.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Yes, another Rand Paul 2016 thread. Sorry. But I have come to the conclusion that Rand may just be our last hope and I see a lot of mixed feelings about Rand in this movement, some don't trust him or give him nearly enough credit for the things he's done so far.

Remember, everyday the police state is creeping in all around us, everyday it gets harder to breathe. Our money is becoming worthless, our children's future looks bleak. Tyrants and bureaucrats run rough shod over the American people and there isn't much fight left in them.

But Romney's loss presents us with a clear chance.

I don't like speaking for this movement as if my opinion matters, but I'm afraid if I don't speak up right now that we might not get another chance at this again.

We will restore Liberty to this nation.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2iixr2r.jpg

[Bastiat's The Law]

I concur. This is ours for the taking.

[Travlyr]

+ rep Rand Paul and his message of liberty.

[fr33]

I'm on board (unless he starts casting a bunch of crazy votes)

[69360]

I don't have mixed feelings. Rand is just as good as his dad on issues with better presentation. As soon as there is work do or a place to donate I'm in.

[bill1971]

As long as the evangelists don't get their hands on him, ill back him.

[Okie RP fan]

I told people that they needed to let his endorsement play out and get off his case. I've also been critical of that endorsement because I thought it was completely unnecessary.

[FortuneCookie]

That endorsement still bothers me but he's by far the best out there. Will join.

[FSP-Rebel]

no-brainer

[alucard13mmfmj]

im on board as long as he votes 95% of the way he should vote. OR unless someone better comes along (there are some, but they dont have the name or seniority or popularity yet).

in politics, it is all about name recognition and jingles and emotions. it is quite sad that people vote for the person that they hear the most or vote for the person that has good hair/booty or vote for the person who had a nice slogan and etc etc.

i know there are probably people as principled and consistent as ron, but they don't have much presence on the media and etc etc.

[dskalkowski]

I'm so in.

[Aratus]

i think we may just might need a much bigger rand paul sub-forum... somehow

[Brett85]

+Rep. It's time for the purists to realize that Rand is the best option we have in 2016.

[FunkBuddha]

Can we get this made into a bumper sticker? Something like "Rand Paul 2016" followed by "Republicans, Join or die"

http://i46.tinypic.com/2iixr2r.jpg

[dannno]

Rand has by far the best shot for POTUS, though I think his dad would have had a better shot if they gave actually gave him one.. Rand won't be able to pull as much from the left, but he should be able to pull a massive hunk of the GOP that Ron had a hard time getting.

[dannno]

Can we get this made into a bumper sticker? Something like "Rand Paul 2016" followed by "Republicans, Join or die"

http://i46.tinypic.com/2iixr2r.jpg

Great concept.. I'll work on this.

[Bastiat's The Law]

+Rep. It's time for the purists to realize that Rand is the best option we have in 2016.
It's time for the purists to either lead, follow, or get out of the way.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Can we get this made into a bumper sticker? Something like "Rand Paul 2016" followed by "Republicans, Join or die"

http://i46.tinypic.com/2iixr2r.jpg
That's a brilliant concept! We should hand them out at CPAC.

[alucard13mmfmj]

It's time for the purists to either lead, follow, or get out of the way.

Unless the purists can find someone as pure as Ron Paul AND has the chance/popularity... Then there is no one else.

I am sure there are plenty of "Ron Paul's", but they don't have the popularity or familiarity with the public. Only recently do we have people in the senate and house that are for our cause, but they are still "young" and need to build their rep and experience up to have a chance. I doubt that can happen in the 3-4 year time span for 2016.

That is the only reason why we are looking at Rand. Rand might not be like Ron, but he is sure better than anyone the democrats or republicans can dig up. I am sure purists can agree to that.

[Michigan11]

Rand has by far the best shot for POTUS, though I think his dad would have had a better shot if they gave actually gave him one.. Rand won't be able to pull as much from the left, but he should be able to pull a massive hunk of the GOP that Ron had a hard time getting.

Almost every democrat voter I've talked to over the years, liked Ron but I think it had alot to do with how Ron would criticize the GOP constantly, but when it came down to voting, they stuck with their party. Obviously the exception is Ron's supporters that were democrats before hand, but in the end it wasn't nearly enough to win primaries. On the other hand people on ther right as we all know had a very negative perception of Ron for his presentation of our ideology, and it is those people we need to actually win. Ron obviously was working towards building this movement and Rand is the second phase of progression. Just thinking out loud. LOL

Rand 2016 all the way!

[Okie RP fan]

Can we get this made into a bumper sticker? Something like "Rand Paul 2016" followed by "Republicans, Join or die"

http://i46.tinypic.com/2iixr2r.jpg

Excellent concept. I just wonder how the sensitive people will react to it?

[Dick Chaney]

If the establishment backs him, I won't vote for him, because I'll know he was compromised.

[supermario21]

Good grief Dick chances are the establishment won't back him until he wins! But geez, he's going to have to win over people that you wouldn't expect in order to gain the nomination. We want to spread our message, including other Republicans finding their brains. If they stand with Rand without manipulating him, I'm all for it.

[fr33]

If the establishment backs him, I won't vote for him, because I'll know he was compromised.Stop being a hipster. Just because someone discovered a song you already liked doesn't mean the song sucks.

[FunkBuddha]

Excellent concept. I just wonder how the sensitive people will react to it?

We're a force to be reckoned with and they know it. The Randslide starts now. This campaign needs to be run like a grass roots Juggernaut. If we can pick up enough steam by the time the primaries roll around, we'll be unstoppable and hopefully the party faithful will fall in line. The party is weak and looking to rebrand itself. We are the brand. We bring the young people, we bring the minorities, we bring the independents/democrats and they know it. We have to be forceful. We hold all the cards and we should act like it. They can't win without us and they've seen what happens when they malign us. Rub it in their faces.
If they reject us, remind them of their failures and what happens when we don't show up.

We need bumper stickers and shirts NOW. Damn I'm fired up. 2016 is ours.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Stop being a hipster. Just because someone discovered a song you already liked doesn't mean the song sucks.
No kidding. You'd think at some point we'd stop shooting ourselves in the foot.

[Michigan11]

If the establishment backs him, I won't vote for him, because I'll know he was compromised.

What is with all of these strings attached. How would you like to have supporters telling you "you better not get support from anyone seen as the 'establishment'.." WTF is that all about? As a supporter I want him to win, and I would be pissed off if he didn't try his best to get as much support as possible to further our ideology by winning.

[dannno]

Great concept.. I'll work on this.

http://i48.tinypic.com/xehyu.jpg

[FunkBuddha]

http://i48.tinypic.com/xehyu.jpg

Awesome!

[Maximus]

Rand Paul 2016 or bust.

[FunkBuddha]

One other thing. We need to stop debating issues with other Republicans. If they want to debate issues, remind them that they had their chance and they ran two shitty candidates and lost twice against another shitty candidate. Their way doesn't work so they need to fall in line and STFU.

Like my old friend Lee (R.I.P.) used to say. "Get in there and drive it like you like stole it."

[John F Kennedy III]

i think we may just might need a much bigger rand paul sub-forum... somehow

Type in Randpaulforums.com


It leads you here to Ronpaulforums :)

[Uriah]

http://i48.tinypic.com/xehyu.jpg

LOve IT!

[torchbearer]

Type in Randpaulforums.com


It leads you here to Ronpaulforums :)

josh is so sneaky.

[Uriah]

Type in Randpaulforums.com


It leads you here to Ronpaulforums :)

Josh Josh josh...., I love you.

[brandon]

I'm all about Rand 2016 - but if he doesn't have a realistic chance at winning maybe it would be best for him to wait? How shitty would it be for him to run and not win any state, and lose his Senate seat? He's building a lot of political capital and it would suck to blow it on an unwinnable race. I guess I'm just being a bit of a contrarian.

[torchbearer]

I'm all about Rand 2016 - but if he doesn't have a realistic chance at winning maybe it would be best for him to wait? How shitty would it be for him to run and not win any state, and lose his Senate seat? He's building a lot of political capital and it would suck to blow it on an unwinnable race. I guess I'm just being a bit of a contrarian.

well, better make sure his first try is the only one we need.
After surviving two presidential elections as an activist, i have learned a lot. I'm sure you have too.
I'm starting now with all the projects i need to do to win this state for liberty candidate that steps up. I'm expecting Rand.
everyone needs to get in the presidential mode now.

[itshappening]

I'm all about Rand 2016 - but if he doesn't have a realistic chance at winning maybe it would be best for him to wait? How shitty would it be for him to run and not win any state, and lose his Senate seat? He's building a lot of political capital and it would suck to blow it on an unwinnable race. I guess I'm just being a bit of a contrarian.

how is he going to lose his senate seat?

[torchbearer]

how is he going to lose his senate seat?

he can't run for both, at least in kentucky.
Ron could run for both house and president because texas law allowed it.

[presence]

so who for VP... this is the list we developed for ron:


RON PAUL
Andrew Napolitano (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Napolitano), Former New Jersey Superior Court Judge

Hinted by Ron:
4/25/12 (http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/news/republican-ron-paul-continues-texas-tour-stopping-/nMh4c/)(VERY SINCERE THIS TIME, watch video)
2/19/12 (http://lemonglobalnews.blogspot.com/2012/02/paulnapolitano-ticket.html)
6/17/11 (http://www.thestreet.com/story/11157087/1/ron-pauls-vp-propsect.html?cm_ven=GOOGLEN)


(Tier One)
Rand Paul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand_paul), Senator Kentucky
Jim DeMint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_DeMint), Senator South Carolina
Gary Johnson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Johnson), Governor of New Mexico


(Tier Two)
Mark Sanford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Sanford), Former Governor South Carolina
William "Fox" Fallon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Fallon), Retired 4 star Admiral US Navy
Chuck Baldwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Baldwin), Presidential Candidate 2008, Constitutional Party
Michael F. Scheuer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Scheuer), Former CIA Intelligence Officer
Pat Buchanan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Buchanan), Senior Advisor to Reagan, Nixon, and Ford
Mike Lee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Lee_%28U.S._politician%29), Senator Utah
Tom Davis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Davis_%28South_Carolina_politician%29), Senator South Carolina
Jim Forsythe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Forsythe), New Hampshire Senator
Andy Sanborn, New Hampshire Senator
Doug French (http://mises.org/daily/author/627/Doug-French), President of the Mises Institute
Barry Goldwater Jr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater,_Jr.), Former Congressman California '69-'83

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?361996-Comprehensive-List-of-Potential-VP-s-for-Top-5-Candidates

[itshappening]

he can't run for both, at least in kentucky.
Ron could run for both house and president because texas law allowed it.

Maybe we can get Kentucky to pass a law allowing him to run for both?

[brandon]

he can't run for both, at least in kentucky.
Ron could run for both house and president because texas law allowed it.

his senate term won't coincide with another presidential election until 2028, which means he could run for president in 2020 or 2024 without having to worry about it.

[torchbearer]

Maybe we can get Kentucky to pass a law allowing him to run for both?


how many allies we have in the kentucky congress?

[kathy88]

Josh Josh josh...., I love you.

RPFs ROCKS.

[torchbearer]

his senate term won't coincide with another presidential election until 2028, which means he could run for president in 2020 or 2024 without having to worry about it.

make sure he wins in 2016.

[CaptLouAlbano]

I'm all about Rand 2016 - but if he doesn't have a realistic chance at winning maybe it would be best for him to wait? How shitty would it be for him to run and not win any state, and lose his Senate seat? He's building a lot of political capital and it would suck to blow it on an unwinnable race. I guess I'm just being a bit of a contrarian.

He won't lose his Senate seat. Remember that Rand is supporting McConnell's reelection bid. This pretty much ensures that the KY GOP will not endorse a primary challenger to Rand's seat. KY Senate primaries are in May I believe. So Rand can test out the presidential waters and if he cannot make any headway he has plenty of time to defend his Senate seat.

Realistically, if Rand can't get a "ticket out of Iowa" there is little reason for him to continue past SC. He can drop out, and focus on his Senate seat and the seats of others.

[CaptLouAlbano]

so who for VP...

Tough call. I suppose a lot of it depends on which region of the country, and which wing of the party he needs to "sure up". Amash may be a good regional choice, because it could help him in the rust belt states, but Amash is still a young Congressman and might not have the name recognition needed by that time. Rand has worked closely with Pat Toomey on many issues, so that could help him with PA and bring in even more of the "Club For Growth" types. John Kasich could help him in OH and bring in more "mainstream" GOPers. Or he could very well not worry about the regional aspect and bring in his close ally DeMint. In the end, if he does get to that point, the choice will be as much strategical as it will be philosophical. I think those that might be hoping for a "libertarian dream team" though might wind up being disappointed.

[CaptLouAlbano]

he can't run for both, at least in kentucky.
Ron could run for both house and president because texas law allowed it.

I just saw this post. Does the law state that he cannot run for both if he is on the KY ballot, or does it apply to being on the ballot in other states. The reason I ask is that if the primary calendar is similar, KY's primary would not be until May. Rand would know by early February, whether or not he was in contention for the presidential nomination.

[July]

Type in Randpaulforums.com


It leads you here to Ronpaulforums :)

Haha, it's been like that for a while now, I think.

This sub forum is also the first entry that shows up in google results when you type in any combination of the words "Rand Paul" and "Forum". Same in Yahoo.

[sailingaway]

Josh Josh josh...., I love you.

It has been like that since 2010. there was a lot of work done in 2010 to raise Rand's internet profile, as well, I remember people putting his web page in their signatures because this site was so much higher on google search to raise that site as well. threads in this forum are likely to be the first people see, most times, in google searches, just as it is with Ron, which is one reason why there is a rule that candidates deserve support in their own forums, by and large.

[Carehn]

Beware Santorum

[July]

He won't lose his Senate seat. Remember that Rand is supporting McConnell's reelection bid. This pretty much ensures that the KY GOP will not endorse a primary challenger to Rand's seat. KY Senate primaries are in May I believe. So Rand can test out the presidential waters and if he cannot make any headway he has plenty of time to defend his Senate seat.

Realistically, if Rand can't get a "ticket out of Iowa" there is little reason for him to continue past SC. He can drop out, and focus on his Senate seat and the seats of others.

This. If 2016 doesn't pan out, he can pull out and take that groundwork laid to try again in 2020, hopefully increasing his support in the process--just as Ron did from 2008 to 2012. More name recognition and political capital for Rand should also help any like minded candidates running down ticket between now and then...

[Matt Collins]

I told people that they needed to let his endorsement play out and get off his case. I've also been critical of that endorsement because I thought it was completely unnecessary.Actually it was necessary. He made a promise during his Senate campaign and he had to keep that promise. Not to mention, he now can't be accused of being the reason Obama got reelected.

[Matt Collins]

If the establishment backs him, I won't vote for him, because I'll know he was compromised.The "Establishment" isn't monolothic.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Beware Santorum

Oh no doubt in my mind he will run. He has a ground game in place for Iowa already. It would be sort of foolish to squander that. Rand will need heavy focus on taking a top three in IA and then winning NH and SC. Rubio if he runs will take FL, and then it's a footrace from there on out.

[CaptLouAlbano]

The "Establishment" isn't monolothic.

Truth. WE are the establishment in a few states and in many counties. Add in the Tea Party folks and you add in many more counties.

[CaptLouAlbano]

This. If 2016 doesn't pan out, he can pull out and take that groundwork laid to try again in 2020, hopefully increasing his support in the process--just as Ron did from 2008 to 2012. More name recognition and political capital for Rand should also help any like minded candidates running down ticket between now and then...

Right I do not think we will see a repeat of the 08/12 strategy at all. Rand will run a much more traditional campaign, and will drop out if he doesn't win early on.

[presence]

Rand Paul / Jim Demint
Rand Paul / Tom Davis
Rand Paul / Judge Nap


of those I think Paul / Demint has the most "electability"

[CaptLouAlbano]

Rand Paul / Jim Demint
Rand Paul / Tom Davis
Rand Paul / Judge Nap


of those I think Paul / Demint has the most "electability"

I think the chances of the ticket being two white males is slim.

[AuH20]

Paul/Cruz would be a pretty dynamite ticket.

[Bastiat's The Law]

http://i48.tinypic.com/xehyu.jpg
Dude, that's awesome!

[Bastiat's The Law]

I'm all about Rand 2016 - but if he doesn't have a realistic chance at winning maybe it would be best for him to wait? How shitty would it be for him to run and not win any state, and lose his Senate seat? He's building a lot of political capital and it would suck to blow it on an unwinnable race. I guess I'm just being a bit of a contrarian.
We can have Massie run for his Senate seat so it stays in our hands ;)

[Bastiat's The Law]

so who for VP... this is the list we developed for ron
It's way early to start this discussion, but it would probably have to be a governor or someone with big name recognition. Napolitano would be better suited for Attorney General and he could oversee the Feds not intervening with states that change their drug policy.

[Shane Harris]

It's way early to start this discussion, but it would probably have to be a governor or someone with big name recognition. Napolitano would be better sutied for Attorney General and he could oversee the Feds not intervening with states that change their drug policy.

would be clutch. has for more power than if he was just VP. Getting people like Nap in the executive branch in today's America would be so amazing.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Paul/Cruz would be a pretty dynamite ticket.
Now that's intriguing. *scratches chin*

[Shane Harris]

What about someone like Demint for VP? He could get on board with Rand's campaign I think. Or Walter Jones? Someone older and more experienced. Jones seems like a good guy since he is a rare congressman who made the transition while in office from being a neocon to being against the wars and endorsing Ron for President. Plus he's older. I guess having two guys from the south might not help in swing states though. Any decent, experienced conservative-libertarian leaning congressman, senators, or governors from swing states?

[Shane Harris]

Now that's intriguing. *scratches chin*

I don't have a great feeling about Cruz personally. Also I think the VP will need more experience and ideally come from a swing state.

[Bastiat's The Law]

I don't have a great feeling about Cruz personally. Also I think the VP will need more experience and ideally come from a swing state.
Demint is with us about 60% of the time, I suspect Cruz will be better than that, probably 75% of the time. He fits somewhere between Demint and Lee on the liberty spectrum. Demint has much more clout and name recognition though. Neither are from swing states. How much does that matter though, Ryan couldn't deliver Wisconsin, so that argument might be weaker today.

[Shane Harris]

Demint is with us about 60% of the time, I suspect Cruz will be better than that, probably 75% of the time. He fits somewhere between Demint and Lee on the liberty spectrum. Demint has much more clout and name recognition though. Neither are from swing states. How much does that matter though, Ryan couldn't deliver Wisconsin, so that argument might be weaker today.

I know, I'm just saying IDEALLY if you had a choice of which state to choose a VP from, I'd take a swing state over a non-swing state. Plus Wisconsin isn't much of a swing state.

[CaptLouAlbano]

I love some of the VP ideas, but libertarian or not, 2 white guys will get destroyed, especially if the Dem ticket is Clinton and hmmmmm Colin Powell.

[Uriah]

I think this whole gender/race thing has gotten too far. It could influence the vote but I personally don't think it will determine an election. Especially, if Rand gets the nomination. I think Rand would choose someone that fits his strategy of making New England and the west coast competitive.

[mz10]

Paul/Cruz would be a pretty dynamite ticket.

The VP would have to be someone that seems "different" from him. Maybe someone like Flake who doesn't carry the Tea Party label but has a lot of pro-liberty positions. He'd have to get better on civil liberties though.

[supermario21]

I still think if Rand won he'd have to choose a somewhat more establishment candidate. I could see him recruiting a social-con type if the Evangelicals didn't warm up to him. If DeMint is retiring in 2016 he'd be a good choice, or one of the reform governors like Kasich or Walker.

[Bastiat's The Law]

I know, I'm just saying IDEALLY if you had a choice of which state to choose a VP from, I'd take a swing state over a non-swing state. Plus Wisconsin isn't much of a swing state.
Yeah, I'm kind of at a lost for a VP for Rand. I'd give anyone that was a governor bonus points though.

[RickyJ]

If you put hope in a single man, you will more than likely be disappointed. One man even if elected can't fix this nation. The problems we face can't wait four years to address, action is needed now. Like Ron Paul I think it is too late, this nation is over the edge now and is going nowhere but down and nothing short of revolution will stop that.

[PaleoPaul]

I love some of the VP ideas, but libertarian or not, 2 white guys will get destroyed, especially if the Dem ticket is Clinton and hmmmmm Colin Powell.
She'd probably go with Julian Castro or Cory Booker.

[Galileo Galilei]

I like Sarah Palin as a VP.

[Uriah]

I like Sarah Palin as a VP.

I hope you're being sarcastic.

[Galileo Galilei]

I hope you're being sarcastic.

Palin is dedicated to liberty and Rand Paul, and has been shoring up her US history knowledge and balances the ticket. Of course the VP pick is way out in the future.

One thing that would really help is if Rand can get the endorsements of Palin and the Koch brothers early on. He does that and he wins.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Palin is damaged goods, not qualified, and would destroy our chances for winning independents.

[July]

Palin is dedicated to liberty and Rand Paul, and has been shoring up her US history knowledge and balances the ticket. Of course the VP pick is way out in the future.

One thing that would really help is if Rand can get the endorsements of Palin and the Koch brothers early on. He does that and he wins.

Palin has been getting better. I saw her on Fox on election night, and her commentary was very good. Although it is probably true, it would be difficult for her to run as a VP again. But as an ally in the national debate? She could still do a lot of good there, with the socon leaning base. If Rand can get her endorsement again, that would help him with certain states in the primary, I think.

[thoughtomator]

Just for the record, I'm absolutely amazed at how many who froth at the mouth at the mention of Ron Paul's name then turn around and mention Rand favorably.

[Valli6]

Just for the record, I'm absolutely amazed at how many who froth at the mouth at the mention of Ron Paul's name then turn around and mention Rand favorably.
I think it's their way of accepting that the principles of Ron Paul were always correct, without actually admitting what stupid, pea-brained, gutless, sheep they've really been all these years.

[Uriah]

Palin is at best a blemish on any ticket. Half the citizens of this county would vote against her. And many of those are Republicans.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Just for the record, I'm absolutely amazed at how many who froth at the mouth at the mention of Ron Paul's name then turn around and mention Rand favorably.
It's a rather fascinating psychology taking place.

[AuH20]

Just for the record, I'm absolutely amazed at how many who froth at the mouth at the mention of Ron Paul's name then turn around and mention Rand favorably.

Ron didn't have the best tact and some of his explanations were less than stellar. That's the main reason why they are more receptive to Rand.

[alucard13mmfmj]

Ron's speaking style appeals to one group. Rand's speaking style appeals to others.

Ron often rambles or uses terms that no one really knows without looking it up (can't trust the majority of viewers to look things up).

[Bastiat's The Law]

Ron's speaking style appeals to one group. Rand's speaking style appeals to others.

Ron often rambles or uses terms that no one really knows without looking it up (can't trust the majority of viewers to look things up).
Ron also isn't very detailed orientated, which most voters like.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Ron didn't have the best tact and some of his explanations were less than stellar. That's the main reason why they are more receptive to Rand.
If Ron defended his foreign policy views with detailed explanations like this, he would've been the nominee.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y6MdSxYKf8

[Matt Collins]

Louis Fortuno, Governor of PR, should be Rand's VP!

[Southerner]

When Sarah Palin learns that sentences actually end and have periods, I *might* could take her seriously.

[dannno]

GRC: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?395435-Rand-Paul-2016-Republicans-Join-or-Die&p=4729234#post4729234

http://defeattheprogressos.blogspot.com/

http://logo.cafepress.com/nocache/3/16071073.jpg

Truth: If the Republican Party fails move towards a liberty oriented political platform then they will no longer be relevant in national politics. The liberty message is what young people embrace, it is what draws them towards conservatism and it is the future of the Republican Party. That is, if the Republican Party expects to survive. If they want to win another Presidential election, ever, the party must focus on limited and constitutional government at the national level.

Rand Paul is the candidate who can bring the most excitement, cast the net furthest and embrace the most diverse audience. Rand Paul's father started the movement that began the Tea Party. Yet Rand Paul already has a senate record of protecting our constitutional civil liberties that could even get a few on the left excited after a far from fantastic record from President Obama.

Use the next four years to educate yourself, your friends and your family about personal liberty, Austrian Economics, monetary policy, the Constitution and foreign policy.

2016 can be the year for liberty. No, it must be.

Visit My Shop at Cafe Press (http://www.cafepress.com/randpaul2016joinordie)

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http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CZcTriv5QhQ/UKFVO_kCrXI/AAAAAAAAAMA/UhZle52fvG8/s320/Orig.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Join,_or_Die


"Join, or Die" is a well-known political cartoon, created by Benjamin Franklin and first published in his Pennsylvania Gazette on May 9, 1754.[1] The original publication by the Gazette is the earliest known pictorial representation of colonial union produced by a British colonist in America.[2] It is a woodcut showing a snake severed into eighths, with each segment labeled with the initials of a British American colony or region. New England was represented as one segment, rather than the four colonies it was at that time. In addition, Delaware and Georgia were omitted completely. Thus, it has 8 segments of snake rather than the traditional 13 colonies.[3] The cartoon appeared along with Franklin's editorial about the "disunited state" of the colonies, and helped make his point about the importance of colonial unity. During that era, there was a superstition that a snake which had been cut into pieces would come back to life if the pieces were put together before sunset.[citation needed]
The cartoon became a symbol of colonial freedom during the American Revolutionary War.

[Barrex]

JOIN or DIE... Not good political slogan. It is a terrible one.

[compromise]

I don't have a great feeling about Cruz personally. Also I think the VP will need more experience and ideally come from a swing state.

Ted Cruz can never be president or vice president. He is not eligible as he was born in Canada.

The best VP pick is Scott Walker. Fiscal conservative, from the Great Lakes area, high approval in his state (a potential swing state), has executive experience, friendly with Rand and very popular among the GOP base (the crowd went wild for him at the Convention.)

[Matt Collins]

JOIN or DIE... Not good political slogan. It is a terrible one.Seemed to work out pretty well for the colonists.

[Barrex]

Seemed to work out pretty well for the colonists.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes. Liberty people are already described as extremists and this is not helping. What will you do if they dont join you? It sounds cool for some military unit or something like that but not for a political campaign who tries to include people and not kill them.

[Galileo Galilei]

The best VP pick is Scott Walker. Fiscal conservative, from the Great Lakes area, high approval in his state (a potential swing state), has executive experience, friendly with Rand and very popular among the GOP base (the crowd went wild for him at the Convention.)

Yes, Walker is best.

[Matt Collins]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes. Liberty people are already described as extremists and this is not helping. What will you do if they dont join you? It sounds cool for some military unit or something like that but not for a political campaign who tries to include people and not kill them.


Yes of course you are right, I was only half joking :p

[dannno]

What will you do if they dont join you?.

If the Republicans don't embrace freedom then the party is going to die. It doesn't mean anybody in our movement is going to be responsible for the death of the party.

[Aeroneous]

If the Republicans don't embrace freedom then the party is going to die. It doesn't mean anybody in our movement is going to be responsible for the death of the party.

While there is truth in your statement, I can see the argument about Join or Die being a less than perfect slogan. I can easily see that slogan quickly turning off a lot of voters.

And though we look at our movement costing Romney the win as a good thing, I'm sure plenty of mainstream Republicans see us as the cause of death (or more of a scapegoat, if you will).

All that being said, I think I might have to buy one of your hoodies! Nice work on the graphics!

[Occam's Banana]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes. Liberty people are already described as extremists and this is not helping. What will you do if they dont join you? It sounds cool for some military unit or something like that but not for a political campaign who tries to include people and not kill them.

Meh. I think it's just fine.

For one thing, "JOIN or DIE" is NOT a threat in any way, shape or form. It's an imploration. The "DIE" serves in the same sense as the "FALL" in "UNITE or FALL." In that formulation, no one is threatening to make something fall. In fact, they are doing just the opposite. They're asking for help in preventing something from falling. It's exactly the same with "JOIN or DIE."

No one - especially not Republicans, who still pay homage to the symbols of America's founding heritage (in word if not in deed) - is going to take this askance. Any concern to the contrarry is greatly overblown, I think.

In any case, if we're going to be THAT paranoid about how our message is framed, then we're screwed right now and might as well not even bother.

[Aeroneous]

No one - especially not Republicans, who still pay homage to the symbols of America's founding heritage (in word if not in deed) - is going to take this askance.

As you said, we shouldn't be overly-concerned about this. At the same time, how many people actually pay homage to these symbols? Most of the people I meet or try to educate about liberty are completely oblivious to the events surrounding the founding of our nation.

[torchbearer]

As you said, we shouldn't be overly-concerned about this. At the same time, how many people actually pay homage to these symbols? Most of the people I meet or try to educate about liberty are completely oblivious to the events surrounding the founding of our nation.

this graphic would be a good starter conversation piece to get people that info.
i'm sporting it.

[Carlybee]

Sounds like a cheap ripoff of Live Free or Die. It also sounds like some kind of collectivist ultimatum.

[Aeroneous]

this graphic would be a good starter conversation piece to get people that info.
i'm sporting it.

Great way to look at it! As I said earlier, I think I might have to purchase a hoodie. It is starting to get colder, after all.

[torchbearer]

Sounds like a cheap ripoff of Live Free or Die. It also sounds like some kind of collectivist ultimatum.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Benjamin_Franklin_-_Join_or_Die.jpg/220px-Benjamin_Franklin_-_Join_or_Die.jpg


"Join, or Die" is a well-known political cartoon (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Political_cartoon), created by Benjamin Franklin (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin) and first published in his Pennsylvania Gazette (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Pennsylvania_Gazette) on May 9, 1754.[1] (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/#cite_note-loc-1) The original publication by the Gazette is the earliest known pictorial representation of colonial union produced by a British colonist in America.[2] (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/#cite_note-2) It is a woodcut (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Woodcut) showing a snake (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Snake) severed into eighths, with each segment labeled with the initials of a British American colony (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Thirteen_Colonies) or region. New England (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/New_England) was represented as one segment, rather than the four colonies it was at that time. In addition, Delaware (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Delaware_Colony) and Georgia (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Colony_of_Georgia) were omitted completely. Thus, it has 8 segments of snake rather than the traditional 13 colonies.[3] (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/#cite_note-3) The cartoon appeared along with Franklin's editorial about the "disunited state" of the colonies, and helped make his point about the importance of colonial unity. During that era, there was a superstition that a snake which had been cut into pieces would come back to life if the pieces were put together before sunset.[citation needed (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]
The cartoon became a symbol of colonial freedom during the American Revolutionary War (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War).

[Aeroneous]

As you said, we shouldn't be overly-concerned about this. At the same time, how many people actually pay homage to these symbols? Most of the people I meet or try to educate about liberty are completely oblivious to the events surrounding the founding of our nation.


this graphic would be a good starter conversation piece to get people that info.
i'm sporting it.


Sounds like a cheap ripoff of Live Free or Die. It also sounds like some kind of collectivist ultimatum.

Amazing how my post and your response just came to life in a matter of minutes. Not calling Carlybee oblivious, but this was funny.

[Carlybee]

Amazing how my post and your response just came to life in a matter of minutes. Not calling Carlybee oblivious, but this was funny.

Just because I was unaware of the Ben Franklin thing doesn't make me oblivious..just means I don't know every single thing that has gone down in our history..and I probably studied this at one time but forgot about it. Still...to the other uninformed masses...can anyone guarantee you won't die if you don't join? Hmm.

[torchbearer]

Just because I was unaware of the Ben Franklin thing doesn't make me oblivious..just means I don't know every single thing that has gone down in our history..and I probably studied this at one time but forgot about it. Still...to the other uninformed masses...can anyone guarantee you won't die if you don't join? Hmm.

I can guarantee the GOP will continue to lose if they don't join the constitutionalist in their party.
the last two elections are my proof.
reagan had libertarian rhetoric and won in landslide.
Rand will be the next reagan in that sense...
so, either join our campaign for liberty or watch the GOP die.

[Carlybee]

I can guarantee the GOP will continue to lose if they don't join the constitutionalist in their party.
the last two elections are my proof.
reagan had libertarian rhetoric and won in landslide.
Rand will be the next reagan in that sense...
so, either join our campaign for liberty or watch the GOP die.

I'm not sure some would interpret that as the party dying. I always feel like if you have to explain something or clarify it to people, it may defeat the purpose. If it's only intended for insiders to "get" then what is the purpose?

[Aeroneous]

Just because I was unaware of the Ben Franklin thing doesn't make me oblivious..just means I don't know every single thing that has gone down in our history..and I probably studied this at one time but forgot about it. Still...to the other uninformed masses...can anyone guarantee you won't die if you don't join? Hmm.

As I said, I wasn't calling you oblivious. I've been studying early American history a lot lately, and there is plenty that I do not know. Nobody knows every little aspect. Sorry for any miscommunication there.

[Occam's Banana]

Sounds like a cheap ripoff of Live Free or Die. It also sounds like some kind of collectivist ultimatum.
*facepalm*

[torchbearer]

I'm not sure some would interpret that as the party dying. I always feel like if you have to explain something or clarify it to people, it may defeat the purpose. If it's only intended for insiders to "get" then what is the purpose?

the whole purpose is why we had this discussion. that is the point of the conversation piece.
now you are more informed.

[P3ter_Griffin]

:Hops aboard the Rand train:

[Occam's Banana]

:Hops aboard the Rand train:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w6p4gYHd-E


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w6p4gYHd-E

[whoisjohngalt]

Occam's Banana, I think its time for you to hop on the train too.

Your points are well thought out and I appreciate your contributions to the Rand threads. That being said, you aren't going to convince Rand not to run in 2016 and you aren't going to convince all the people already on the train to get off either. Don't you think your energies would be better directed elsewhere?

Come on my friend, it's time to join us. All aboard!

[dannno]

Bumper stickers, shirts, hoodies:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?395435-Rand-Paul-2016-Republicans-Join-or-Die

http://logo.cafepress.com/nocache/3/16071073.jpg

[alucard13mmfmj]

Starship Troopers: Lieutenant Jean Rasczak

"I need a corporal. You're it until you're dead or I find someone better."

Rand Paul will be our guy until we find someone better and that someone has a chance.

[whoisjohngalt]

Danno, I like others before have some reservations about this as currently depicted. Remove the "Republicans" and i'll slap these motherfuckers all over my car.

It sounds like an ultimatum in this incarnation. If you direct it at a collective, they will become defensive. Remove the Republicans and its inclusive. WE all have to join together or perish.

[whoisjohngalt]

Also, the Join or Die message is important for those in the liberty movement not on board with Rand just yet.

[Occam's Banana]

Occam's Banana, I think its time for you to hop on the train too.

Your points are well thought out and I appreciate your contributions to the Rand threads. That being said, you aren't going to convince Rand not to run in 2016 and you aren't going to convince all the people already on the train to get off either. Don't you think your energies would be better directed elsewhere?

Come on my friend, it's time to join us. All aboard!

I think you misunderstand. Perhaps I should have said something, but it honestly didn't occur to me that my "Love Train" post might be taken the wrong way.

It was in NO WAY meant a a jibe or mockery. I'm already on the Rand Train! Everyone should get on board! So I was just posting a fun, happy song to go along with PG's prior post. That's all.

Now I DO think that Rand should stay in the Senate and not run for POTUS, but that's neither here nor there. Nuthin' to do with anything. Rand will do what Rand decides to do, and none of us gets to decide for him. Whatever he decides, I'm right there with him. So if I talk about how Rand shouldn't run for POTUS, it's just 'cause I like talking about strategy and tactics and my take on it all. Unlike others, I ain't gonna diss anyone who's hoping for Rand for POTUS run - though I *will* debate about it.

So ... go for the Senate? Go for POTUS? It's all good! It's the "Love" Train either way! And Rand Paul is the conductor! Allllll aaaaaaBOOOAAAARD!

Oh, yeah, and one more thing:

JOIN, or DIE!

[whoisjohngalt]

No, I wasn't talking about the video. I just have seen you on all the Rand threads talking up the plan to keep him in the Senate. I know you support the man. I was only suggesting you get on board the POTUS train; trust me if you dare, he has already made the decision.

[Occam's Banana]

No, I wasn't talking about the video.
Oh, OK. My mistake.


I just have seen you on all the Rand threads talking up the plan to keep him in the Senate. I know you support the man. I was only suggesting you get on board the POTUS train; trust me if you dare, he has already made the decision.

Well, like I say, I'm already on the train. But it's not really up to us whether it's a POTUS Train or a Senate Train. That's up to Rand. I just think it would be strategically more prudent if Rand stays in the Senate. But there certainly isn't any "plan" to keep him in the Senate - at least, not on my part anyway. Just me talking. And I'll go along with whichever course he settles on.

[Barrex]

Still dont like it :D

"If you want to win you must not lose" – Number One

[RickyJ]

"Join or die" sounds like a threat. I hope you don't seriously think this is a good slogan that will help a campaign, because it won't. It might be good way to start a real revolution, but it sucks for a political campaign.

[dannno]

"Join or die" sounds like a threat. I hope you don't seriously think this is a good slogan that will help a campaign, because it won't. It might be good way to start a real revolution, but it sucks for a political campaign.

It isnt a threat, it forces people to address the issue instead of being trite and wishy-washy

[whoisjohngalt]

People made fun of the "Vote or Die" campaign, but no one really felt threatened by it as far as I could tell. I don't imagine this will be the official campaign slogan, but it's not too bad if you remove the "Republicans".

[Southerner]

[Love Train video]

I'll see your LOVE TRAIN, and raise you...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-DpRcxK_N8 :)

[Occam's Banana]

People made fun of the "Vote or Die" campaign, but no one really felt threatened by it as far as I could tell. I don't imagine this will be the official campaign slogan, but it's not too bad if you remove the "Republicans".

I disagree. Directing this at the Republicans is the whole point. They need to unite behind a *real* conservative libertarian (or libertarian conservative, if you prefer). That would be Rand Paul.

It's a fine slogan. It's PERFECT for the purposes for which it was intended. It should stay exactly like it is.

Anyone who would like to see something else - directed at a more general group, or whatever - should get to work and come up with something of their own.

There is no good reason why everything we do has to be a "one size fits all" affair.

[Liberty74]

Unless the purists can find someone as pure as Ron Paul AND has the chance/popularity... Then there is no one else.

Judge NAP 2016 as Indy. :p

One does not need to be popular today. Ross Perot came out of no where 1992 and was pulling 30% in the national polls in 6 months time. He was a nobody.

[Uriah]

I disagree. Directing this at the Republicans is the whole point. They need to unite behind a *real* conservative libertarian (or libertarian conservative, if you prefer). That would be Rand Paul.

It's a fine slogan. It's PERFECT for the purposes for which it was intended. It should stay exactly like it is.

Anyone who would like to see something else - directed at a more general group, or whatever - should get to work and come up with something of their own.

There is no good reason why everything we do has to be a "one size fits all" affair.

The slogan was perfect for the time and culture it was created in. I like the slogan personally. But I think it will put off mainstream Republicans. This will most likely be viewed as an ultimatum, which can back fire. If the words "Unite, or Fall." were used, I would be more receptive as the word 'die' seems harsh. And remember we are trying to convert an elderly electorate that generally has a more sensitive character.

[Occam's Banana]

The slogan was perfect for the time and culture it was created in. I like the slogan personally. But I think it will put off mainstream Republicans. This will most likely be viewed as an ultimatum, which can back fire. If the words "Unite, or Fall." were used, I would be more receptive as the word 'die' seems harsh. And remember we are trying to convert an elderly electorate that generally has a more sensitive character.

Well ... I addressed some of this before (in fact, I think I used "UNITE, or FALL" as an analogy earlier in this thread, or another one on the same subject).

It's not that I think some of the objections here are wrong so much as I think they're exaggerated. There are going to be two types of negative reaction: honest and dishonest. The honest ones would come from people who genuinely misunderstand. As torchbearer has pointed out, this makes for "teachable moments" (I hate that phrase, but it fits). The dishonest honest ones would come from people who either know they're talking BS or just don't care. But those people are going to do that sort of thing regardless of what memes or approaches we take. If we need to be *that* worried about the reception of a meme taken straight from the iconography of the American Revolution, then it doesn't really matter *what* memes we do or don't adopt - were pretty much doomed, no matter what.

[Uriah]

Debating the merits of a meme in no way will be the undoing of this movement. It could be the undoing of the meme, nothing else.

[Jingles]

I just wish he was a lot more forceful with his rhetoric. Doesn't in anyway excite me like Ron Paul does. The "moderate appealing to people rhetoric" turns me off from people. I just like someone blatantly telling the truth.

[Occam's Banana]

Debating the merits of a meme in no way will be the undoing of this movement. It could be the undoing of the meme, nothing else.

Agreed.

[Occam's Banana]

I just wish he was a lot more forceful with his rhetoric. Doesn't in anyway excite me like Ron Paul does. The "moderate appealing to people rhetoric" turns me off from people. I just like someone blatantly telling the truth.

I know exactly what you mean. I'll probably never be as enthusiastic about Rand as I am about Ron for just that reason. But I also won't let my emotional response overrule my intellectual assessment ... and it's not like there's nothing at all to get charged up about when it comes to Rand. That Senate speech on foreign aid and that new "1984" clip he just put out are pretty damned invigorating.

[Uriah]

nvm

[July]

I just wish he was a lot more forceful with his rhetoric. Doesn't in anyway excite me like Ron Paul does. The "moderate appealing to people rhetoric" turns me off from people. I just like someone blatantly telling the truth.

I know what you mean... Ron made my jaw drop during the debates, speeches, etc. The way he would just SAY things, and say them so plainly that you could not deny the obvious logic and reason behind his statement. Sometimes it would shock me and excite me at the same time. He is a brilliant political mind, though he doesn't think of himself as a politician in the usual sense.

Rand's attention to nuance and subtly excites me. Is that weird? I'm not sure how to explain it, but it inspires me watching him walk the tight rope, as he sometime does.

Anyway point is, there are different people and personalities bringing their different talents into the mix. That's the beauty of it.