Solution: Restore the Articles of Confederation

[Lucille]

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
-Lysander Spooner

Guest Post: Obama Wins A Second Term: Now What?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-07/guest-post-obama-wins-second-term-now-what


[...] The Solution is to Change the Political Structure

The solution is a return to a limited, decentralized confederation form of government like our first legitimate American government, the Articles of Confederation. One that is responsible to the people and ultimately controlled by the voters with the iron-clad political tools of initiative and referendum like exists in Switzerland today, where voters have the right to reject legislation and laws or enact laws outside the power of controlled legislative, judiciary and executive branches of government. Until we return to the Articles of Confederation, America and our liberties are doomed to extinction by the hidden control of international banking and economic elites.

After the election you can expect appeals from "so-called" conservatives or libertarians wanting your hard-earned money to support this or that cause. They will claim time is running out, the next election is the most important in your lifetime, etc. Time is not running out; it ran out long ago, and voting for either party or most candidates is just an exercise in futility supporting the corrupt system that rules over you. We are serfs and mere subjects to a system and few understand or even recognize the control over us.

If you want to be a free people again educate yourself on the Swiss system of government and work for a return to the government for which our patriot founding fathers risked their lives and property, the Articles of Confederation. Supporting anything less is just deceiving ourselves and screwing our posterity. We may deserve the kind of government we have allowed to take over our country but our posterity deserve better.

The GOP Ron Paul for President campaigns in 2008 and 2012 clearly showed how the controlled, two-party system in the United States will allow no real opposition to its approved candidates in either party. You can bet your worthless vote that new Republican Party rules at the 2012 GOP convention and at the state level in the future will control any viable opposition candidates. The only current outlets for alternative political action are in doomed-to-fail third-party activities that are little more than allowed but controlled political opposition.

To restore the original American Republic, we must change the controlled monopoly political system of government that controls and destroys internally or externally all opposition. New candidates or even attempts at party control accomplish little when the same powerful interests control the political structure. We must work to remove the system in place and restore the limited government of our founding fathers, for they had devised a system that would work well today with our ease of transportation and communication.

Remember, our children and grandchildren deserve a better, more prosperous world and nation than we have left them at this point. It is time we as a generation man up for liberty to redeem ourselves in the tear-filled eyes of future generations. The American people must work peacefully to restore the Articles of Confederation now or else suffer the permanent consequences of the fall of America.

[Travlyr]

“People fight the gold standard,” said Ludwig von Mises, “because they want to substitute national autarky for free trade, war for peace, totalitarian government omnipotence for liberty.” It is no coincidence that the nineteenth century, a time of gold coin standards for the most part, was an era of peace. Nor is it a coincidence that the twentieth century combines wars with paper money.

Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity. - Ron Paul

Ending the Fed seems like a much more achievable goal.

[itshappening]

Obama said in his victory speech that the United States will remain this way forever and ever and he celebrated being its ruler to loud cheering and applause

It's almost as if he is threatening anyone who dares challenge the supremacy of his Federal government

[Travlyr]

Obama said in his victory speech that the United States will remain this way forever and ever and he celebrated being its ruler to loud cheering and applause

It's almost as if he is threatening anyone who dares challenge the supremacy of his Federal government

Obama is an illegitimate ruler and does not want his government limited by a Constitution.

[Travlyr]

This should be a good discussion.

I wonder how many people understand that the States were already setup under the Articles of Confederation. There were already representatives of government and they chose representatives to represent them. Sure the AoC were less powerful than the Constitution, but there were issues that needed solved. One of the many great problems facing the people at the time was State boundaries. Virginia claimed territory all the way to the Mississippi River in Minnesota. It was a very huge land claim and many other States claimed overlapping boundaries as well.

[heavenlyboy34]

I approve this thread. I imagine AF is nodding in approval somewhere. :) :cool:

[jllundqu]

The people of this country are WAAAAAAAAY too stupid and uneducated for something this drastic. They would instantly claim racism, wanting to return to slavery, etc. I can hear them now!

Where to then, liberty lovers? There's no place left to run. Liberty's last bastion of hope has been destroyed from within.

[gwax23]

Id support this with some modifications. Never going to happen though. Limited federal government? hahahaa

[supermario21]

Honestly, whenever people float state's rights and limited government all that comes up is "oh you just want slavery back." So frustrating...

[jj-]

This should be a good discussion.

If you're in it, it probably won't.

[Uriah]

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
-Lysander Spooner

I need to read more Spooner.

[erowe1]

We'd need a constitutional convention to do that.

Nothing good has ever come out of a constitutional convention.

[erowe1]

One of the many great problems facing the people at the time was State boundaries. Virginia claimed territory all the way to the Mississippi River in Minnesota. It was a very huge land claim and many other States claimed overlapping boundaries as well.

It should have been up to the people living there to decide what state they wanted to delegate their sovereignty to, not some distant regime to impose that on them.

[Travlyr]

It should have been up to the people living there to decide what state they wanted to delegate their sovereignty to, not some distant regime to impose that on them.

The Constitution of Virginia (http://www.nhinet.org/ccs/docs/va-1776.htm)
June 29, 1776


The legislative, executive, and judiciary department, shall be separate and distinct, so that neither exercise the powers properly belonging to the other: nor shall any person exercise the powers of rmorc than one of them, at the same time; except that the Justices of the County (courts shall be eligible to either House of Assembly

The legislative shall be formed of two distinct branches, who, together, shall be a complete Legislature. They shall meet once, or oftener, every year, and shall be called, The General Assembly of Virginia. One of these shall be called, The House of Delegates, and consist of two Representatives, to be chosen for each county, and for the district of West-Augusta, annually, of such men as actually reside in, and are freeholders of the same, or duly qualified according to law, and also of one Delegate or Representative, to be chosen annually for the city of Williamsburgh, and one for the borough of Norfolk, and a Representative for each of such other cities and boroughs, as may hereafter be allowed particular representation by the legislature; but when any city or borough shall so decrease, as that the number of persons, having right of suffrage therein, shall have been, for the space of seven Years successively, less than half the number of voters in some one county in Virginia, such city or borough thenceforward shall cease to send a Delegate or Representative to the Assembly.

The other shall be called The Senate, and consist of twenty-four members, of whom thirteen shall constitute a House to proceed on business; for whose election, the different counties shall be divided into twenty-four districts; and each county of the respective district, at the time of the election of its Delegates, shall vote for one Senator, who is actually a resident and freeholder within the district, or duly qualified according to law, and is upwards of twenty-five years of age; and the Sheriffs of each county, within five days at farthest, after the last county election in the district, shall meet at some convenient place, and from the poll, so taken in their respective counties, return, as a Senator, the man who shall have the greatest number of votes in the whole district. To keep up this Assembly by rotation, the districts shall be equally divided into four classes and numbered by lot. At the end of one year after the general election, the six members, elected by the first division, shall be displaced, and the vacancies thereby occasioned supplied from such class or division, by new election, in the manner aforesaid. This rotation shall be applied to each division, according to its number, and continued in due order annually.

The right of suffrage in the election of members for both Houses shall remain as exercised at present; and each House shall choose its own Speaker, appoint its own officers, settle its own rules of proceeding, and direct writs of election, for the supplying intermediate vacancies.

All laws shall originate in the House of Delegates, to be approved of or rejected by the Senate, or to be- amended, with consent of the House of Delegates; except money-bills, which in no instance shall be altered by the Senate, but wholly approved or rejected

A Governor, or chief magistrate, shall be chosen annually by joint ballot of both Houses (to be taken in each House respectively) deposited in the conference room; the boxes examined jointly by a committee of each House, and the numbers severally reported to them, that the appointments may be entered (which shall be the mode of taking the joint ballot of both Houses, in all cases) who shall not continue in that office longer than three years successively. nor be eligible, until the expiration of four years after he shall have been out of that office. An adequate, but moderate salary shall be settled on him, during his continuance in office; and he shall, with the advice of a Council of State, exercise the executive powers of government, according to the laws of this Commonwealth; and shall not, under any presence, exercise any power or prerogative, by virtue of any law, statute or custom of England. But he shall, with the advice of the Council of State, have the power of granting reprieves or pardons, except where the prosecution shall have been carried on by the House of Delegates, or the law shall otherwise particularly direct: in which cases, no reprieve or pardon shall be granted, but by resolve of the House of Delegates.

[Travlyr]

If you're in it, it probably won't.

Intelligent input is warranted rather than mere insults.

[erowe1]

The Constitution of Virginia (http://www.nhinet.org/ccs/docs/va-1776.htm)
June 29, 1776

Help me read between the lines here.

What is it about the Constitution of Virginia that necessitated a federal government to step in and tell people what state the land they lived on belonged to, rather than them deciding that themselves?

[Travlyr]

Help me read between the lines here.

What is it about the Constitution of Virginia that necessitated a federal government to step in and tell people what state the land they lived on belonged to, rather than them deciding that themselves?

State boundaries were not clearly defined. Land west of the Appalachian Mountains had not been surveyed. The State of Virginia, being the biggest baddest State of their time, was feared to become the dominate State in an expanding western world without proper rule of law. The native American Indians were warring on the settlers and vice versa. The issue of slavery was controversial and while Virginia allowed slavery, many people wanted to abolish it. There was no power to force the States to pay for war debts accumulated during the Revolutionary War to pay the soldiers. States needed some way to settle disputes among themselves. Individual land ownership and property rights was in the baby stages of defining liberty. Always prior, individual land ownership was granted by Kings. A lot was going on in the late 18th century. They did their best.

[Pericles]

Before going too far on this train, have a look at this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ynp9WyTdOdw/UJqS59yOwxI/AAAAAAAANhU/zYS9aQgG140/s1600/ScreenHunter_06+Nov.+07+11.56.jpg

It is necessary to properly define the problem in order to come to the right solution.

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

Ugh, alot of the replies at ZeroHedge were painful. Way too many Statist jackasses infesting it.

[Travlyr]

Before going too far on this train, have a look at this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ynp9WyTdOdw/UJqS59yOwxI/AAAAAAAANhU/zYS9aQgG140/s1600/ScreenHunter_06+Nov.+07+11.56.jpg

It is necessary to properly define the problem in order to come to the right solution.

Very interesting. I would like to see the link please.

[Pericles]

More updated http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/election-map-2012/president/

[erowe1]

State boundaries were not clearly defined. Land west of the Appalachian Mountains had not been surveyed. The State of Virginia, being the biggest baddest State of their time, was feared to become the dominate State in an expanding western world without proper rule of law. The native American Indians were warring on the settlers and vice versa. The issue of slavery was controversial and while Virginia allowed slavery, many people wanted to abolish it. There was no power to force the States to pay for war debts accumulated during the Revolutionary War to pay the soldiers. States needed some way to settle disputes among themselves. Individual land ownership and property rights was in the baby stages of defining liberty. Always prior, individual land ownership was granted by Kings. A lot was going on in the late 18th century. They did their best.

But it shouldn't have been a dispute between the states. It should have been up to the people who lived in those disputed territories to say what state they were in. That's what would happen in a republic, which is what the US Constitution says every state within it has to be.

[Travlyr]

But it shouldn't have been a dispute between the states. It should have been up to the people who lived in those disputed territories to say what state they were in. That's what would happen in a republic, which is what the US Constitution says every state within it has to be.

It appears that most people at that time did not even know in what State they lived.

http://i.imgur.com/r4Zwq.jpg

[John F Kennedy III]

Bump

[Origanalist]

Honestly, whenever people float state's rights and limited government all that comes up is "oh you just want slavery back." So frustrating...

Every_stinking_time.

[Lucille]

I need to read more Spooner.

http://www.lysanderspooner.org/


Is it not plain (http://lysanderspooner.org/node/60), rather, that the members of Congress, as a legislative body, whether they are conscious of it or not, are in reality, a mere cabal of swindlers, usurpers, tyrants and robbers? Is it not plain that they are stupendous blockheads, if they imagine that they are anything else than such a cabal? Or that their so-called laws impose the least obligation upon anybody?

I love that.

[fisharmor]

But it shouldn't have been a dispute between the states. It should have been up to the people who lived in those disputed territories to say what state they were in. That's what would happen in a republic, which is what the US Constitution says every state within it has to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky#History


After the American Revolution, the counties of Virginia beyond the Appalachian Mountains became known as Kentucky County.[/URL] Eventually, the residents of Kentucky County petitioned for a separation from Virginia. Ten constitutional conventions were held in the Constitution Square Courthouse in Danville between 1784 and 1792. In 1790, Kentucky's delegates accepted Virginia's terms of separation, and a state constitution was drafted at the final convention in April 1792. On June 1, 1792, Kentucky became the fifteenth state to be admitted to the union.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont#Independence_and_statehood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky#cite_note-27)

On January 15, 1777, representatives of the New Hampshire Grants declared the independence of Vermont.
...
Vermont continued to govern itself as a sovereign entity based in the eastern town of Windsor for fourteen years. The independent state of Vermont issued its own coinage from 1785 to 1788 and operated a statewide postal service. Thomas Chittenden was the Governor in 1778–1789 and in 1790–1791. The state was obliged to solve conflicting property ownership disputes with New Yorkers. On March 4, 1791, Vermont joined the federal union as the fourteenth state, and the first to enter the Union after the original thirteen colonies.

Also, Texas won its independence from Mexico prior to becoming a state.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont#cite_note-52)


The short story is this: there were ways of working things out without resorting to a strong central government to play arbiter.
In the case of Kentucky, it shows that fears of Virginia's overwhelming power were pretty unfounded.

[thoughtomator]

Obama said in his victory speech that the United States will remain this way forever and ever and he celebrated being its ruler to loud cheering and applause

It's almost as if he is threatening anyone who dares challenge the supremacy of his Federal government

I am Ozymandias, King of Kings; look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair.

[KevinR]

I see my good ol' Maryland hasn't changed much..