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donnay
11-07-2012, 10:34 AM
The only way we are going to effect change is to educate ourselves and others. Dr. Paul has done and outstanding job thus far--now it is up to us! Government is not the answer, never was.


The power resides within each and every one of us. Only people who are educated know the score.

SilenceDewgooder
11-07-2012, 10:43 AM
Knowledge is power, but I would suggest a method that sparks curiosity without mentioning political parties or names, including Dr. Paul's. If they become curious enough, it will lead back to Dr. Paul without too much effort. But between now and January 20, 2 major events happen that most people will never hear about. The Electoral College votes on Dec 17 (I think) and the votes are unsealed on Jan 6 (unless the dates have changed).

Do you remember all of those Mittens defacto supporters? They are looking for closure. Instead, let's break this sh*t wide open.

sailingaway
11-07-2012, 10:43 AM
The time is right. The right is wondering what happened. Again.... Check this out. https://twitter.com/sharpd25/status/266214861451698177

CaptUSA
11-07-2012, 11:00 AM
Can I be Grammar Nazi? You don't "effect" change, you "affect" it. Education indeed. ;)





ETA: This grammar nazi needs to be put on trial. Effect as a verb in this case can be a proper usage.

donnay
11-07-2012, 11:17 AM
Can I be Grammar Nazi? You don't "effect" change, you "affect" it. Education indeed. ;)

AFFECT/EFFECT


There are five distinct words here. When “affect” is accented on the final syllable (a-FECT), it is usually a verb meaning “have an influence on”: “The million-dollar donation from the industrialist did not affect my vote against the Clean Air Act.”


Occasionally a pretentious person is said to affect an artificial air of sophistication. Speaking with a borrowed French accent or ostentatiously wearing a large diamond ear stud might be an affectation. In this sort of context, “affect” means “to make a display of or deliberately cultivate.”


Another unusual meaning is indicated when the word is accented on the first syllable (AFF-ect), meaning “emotion.” In this case the word is used mostly by psychiatrists and social scientists—people who normally know how to spell it.


The real problem arises when people confuse the first spelling with the second: “effect.” This too can be two different words. The more common one is a noun: “When I left the stove on, the effect was that the house filled with smoke.” When you affect a situation, you have an effect on it.


Less common is a verb meaning “to create”: “I’m trying to effect a change in the way we purchase widgets.” No wonder people are confused. Note especially that the proper expression is not “take affect” but “take effect”—become effective. Hey, nobody ever said English was logical: just memorize it and get on with your life.


The stuff in your purse? Your personal effects.


The stuff in movies? Sound effects and special effects.


“Affective” is a technical term having to do with emotions; the vast majority of the time the spelling you want is “effective.”

http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/affect.html

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/43644/can-one-affect-change
http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=affect+change%2Ceffect+change&year_start=1950&year_end=2000&corpus=0&smoothing=20

donnay
11-07-2012, 11:19 AM
The time is right. The right is wondering what happened. Again.... Check this out. https://twitter.com/sharpd25/status/266214861451698177


Carpe Diem!!

Warrior_of_Freedom
11-07-2012, 11:25 AM
I lost my board of education bid :(

Travlyr
11-07-2012, 11:32 AM
Indeed. Understanding and teaching is the key.

sailingaway
11-07-2012, 11:36 AM
I lost my board of education bid :(

I'm sorry! Next time we need to have a tracking system for candidates in those races so we can support them where we are. If we had any in my area, I am not aware of it.

Matt Collins
11-07-2012, 11:42 AM
No, education is NOT the path to victory. If it were, Ron would've been President in 2008.


This explains why education doesn't change policy:
http://training4liberty.org/facl2/info.htm


this too:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QCzww6EG7E

donnay
11-07-2012, 11:44 AM
I lost my board of education bid :(


I sorry for you...but we need to get rid of Department of Educations bids--period.

donnay
11-07-2012, 11:51 AM
No, education is NOT the path to victory. If it were, Ron would've been President in 2008.


This explains why education doesn't change policy:
http://training4liberty.org/facl2/info.htm


I beg to differ. Dr. Paul jumped into the race to educate. By getting into the national election he helped to educate much of the deliberate dumbed down citizens.

Matthew5
11-07-2012, 12:00 PM
Can I be Grammar Nazi? You don't "effect" change, you "affect" it. Education indeed. ;)

I don't know...do you posses the ability to be a grammar nazi? Then, yes you can. :D

/grammarkrieg

Matt Collins
11-07-2012, 12:02 PM
I beg to differ. Dr. Paul jumped into the race to educate. By getting into the national election he helped to educate much of the deliberate dumbed down citizens.And he didn't get elected now did he?

Rand ran to win, not to educate, and he won.

Czolgosz
11-07-2012, 12:02 PM
Conditioning and fear are more powerful than knowledge, intelligence, and wisdom.

sailingaway
11-07-2012, 12:03 PM
I beg to differ. Dr. Paul jumped into the race to educate. By getting into the national election he helped to educate much of the deliberate dumbed down citizens.

I agree.

Travlyr
11-07-2012, 12:04 PM
And he didn't get elected now did he?

Rand ran to win, not to educate, and he won.

Politicians educated on the proper role of government is paramount to liberty.

sailingaway
11-07-2012, 12:04 PM
And he didn't get elected now did he?

Rand ran to win, not to educate, and he won.

Obama won. Winning clearly isn't everything. Or does that make Obama your candidate?

Matt Collins
11-07-2012, 12:09 PM
Politicians educated on the proper role of government is paramount to liberty.Incorrect. Politicians tend to do what they need to in order to get reelected or move to higher office. If you threaten their power, you can make them bendover backwards for you. That link I posted above explains it.

Matt Collins
11-07-2012, 12:10 PM
Obama won. Winning clearly isn't everything. Or does that make Obama your candidate?http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause

Warrior_of_Freedom
11-07-2012, 12:12 PM
I sorry for you...but we need to get rid of Department of Educations bids--period.
That was the whole point, to eat it from the inside

donnay
11-07-2012, 12:12 PM
And he didn't get elected now did he?

Rand ran to win, not to educate, and he won.


What it means is; we have our work cut out for us! Dr. Paul did not pass the torch to Rand, he passed it to us! Now it is incumbent upon us to get out there and continue to educate the people.

Matthew5
11-07-2012, 12:14 PM
Anyone that would deny that education isn't the answer, should seriously reconsider. We're reaping the consequences of malevolent public education system that has dumbed this nation into submission. We are kidding ourselves if we don't have education has a core component of our fight for liberty. We can sit here and debate till we're blue in the face about which party to invest in, but it's all pointless if we're dealing with a constituency that is not truly educated.

Now there are some political organizations that feel that if we just fight hard enough or throw enough money at the solution, that we'll be successful. Sure, we had some success in yesterday's election. But the world is changing and we're going to be left in the dust unless we are a key element of the educational process.

acptulsa
11-07-2012, 12:14 PM
Incorrect. Politicians tend to do what they need to in order to get reelected or move to higher office. If you threaten their power, you can make them bendover backwards for you. That link I posted above explains it.

Did you even read the post before you pronounced it incorrect?

Regardless of what politicians do, or what they need to do, or how you can get them to jump through hoops, or anything you posted previously, or anything else in this whole wide world, politicians educated in the proper role of government are paramount to getting and maintaining liberty. You said Travlyr was wrong, then said a bunch of stuff that didn't contradict what he said--or have anything to do with what he said at all. Or did you notice this?

Trav: Buick didn't introduce the LeSabre until 1959. Matt: Incorrect. The truth is that the rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain. Do you just like the taste of your own feet, Matt?

How old are you, Matt? Shall I make little round faces at you?

Original_Intent
11-07-2012, 12:17 PM
Can I be Grammar Nazi? You don't "effect" change, you "affect" it. Education indeed. ;)





ETA: This grammar nazi needs to be put on trial. Effect as a verb in this case can be a proper usage.

So, you were just following orders, were you?! (from the Nuremburg Grammar nazi trials) :D

SilenceDewgooder
11-07-2012, 12:18 PM
Conditioning and fear are more powerful than knowledge, intelligence, and wisdom.

Conditioning and fear are byproducts of a lack of knowledge, intelligence, and/or wisdom.

sailingaway
11-07-2012, 12:18 PM
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause

I'm sure you find that satisfying Matt, but it doesn't make what I said wrong. There is a point where a particular race is neither winnable at the greatest stretch of imagination nor educational because of its small size or whatever, and that factors into support, obviously. But we want BJ and Dennis to move to winnable areas, not to support candidates who aren't us and aren't explaining why we need our principles to others, just because they can win, which is what your statement implies, even without getting into other factors.

At least that is where I come from.

Travlyr
11-07-2012, 12:18 PM
Incorrect. Politicians tend to do what they need to in order to get reelected or move to higher office. If you threaten their power, you can make them bendover backwards for you. That link I posted above explains it.

"The Times They Are A Changin"

Personally, I will not vote for a politician who does not understand the proper role of government. I had some good choices this election and I expect to have a bunch more next time. I'll be looking for educated politicians who can articulate their positions in more than commercial sound bites.

donnay
11-07-2012, 12:25 PM
That was the whole point, to eat it from the inside


I do not believe you can effect change deep within the bowels of a corrupt system. Those who do not know that the system is corrupt will never understand why you are trying to expose it from within. Educating people of the corrupt system is the only way, IMHO, to effect the change needed to stop it.

Czolgosz
11-07-2012, 12:31 PM
Conditioning and fear are byproducts of a lack of knowledge, intelligence, and/or wisdom.

I don't necessarily disagree about the relationship, however as a tool, conditioning and fear will trump those attributes. And nevermind the fact that most Humans are not remotely interested in those particular traits.

Matt Collins
11-07-2012, 12:31 PM
Did you even read the post before you pronounced it incorrect?

Regardless of what politicians do, or what they need to do, or how you can get them to jump through hoops, or anything you posted previously, or anything else in this whole wide world, politicians educated in the proper role of government are paramount to getting and maintaining liberty. Incorrect again. Politicians are pawns to be manipulated regardless of their understanding of liberty. You just have to know which buttons to push to get them to do certian things.

Matt Collins
11-07-2012, 12:32 PM
Anyone that would deny that education isn't the answer, should seriously reconsider. We're reaping the consequences of malevolent public education system that has dumbed this nation into submission. We are kidding ourselves if we don't have education has a core component of our fight for liberty. We can sit here and debate till we're blue in the face about which party to invest in, but it's all pointless if we're dealing with a constituency that is not truly educated.

Now there are some political organizations that feel that if we just fight hard enough or throw enough money at the solution, that we'll be successful. Sure, we had some success in yesterday's election. But the world is changing and we're going to be left in the dust unless we are a key element of the educational process.None of that matters, politicians are Pavlovian dogs who can be conditioned to do what you want them to do if you know how. No education on their part needed.

Matt Collins
11-07-2012, 12:33 PM
Personally, I will not vote for a politician who does not understand the proper role of government. I had some good choices this election and I expect to have a bunch more next time. I'll be looking for educated politicians who can articulate their positions in more than commercial sound bites.I am the same way, but again, the majority of the electorate is not. Those are the people we have to cater to if we are to win elections.

Czolgosz
11-07-2012, 12:35 PM
We "libertarians" incorrectly project our critical and individualistic thinking skills upon others.

acptulsa
11-07-2012, 12:35 PM
Incorrect again. Politicians are pawns to be manipulated regardless of their understanding of liberty. You just have to know which buttons to push to get them to do certian things.

So, you're trying to tell me that Nixon was a pushbutton pawn who would jump through any hoop? Seriously?

Oh, sorry. I forgot. Nixon was before your time, so he didn't exist. So, you're obviously thinking of Dubya. You also seem to be forgetting that Dick Cheney was also a politician...

Too bad you never met Stalin. Then we wouldn't have to put up with these ignorant outbursts of yours. You'd have started pushing his pawn buttons, and that would have been the end of your silly statements. Not that this one wasn't pretty funny...

donnay
11-07-2012, 12:37 PM
None of that matters, politicians are Pavlovian dogs who can be conditioned compromised to do what you they want them to do if you know how. No education on their part needed.

FIFY

Ron Paul is an educated politician.

sailingaway
11-07-2012, 12:39 PM
Clearly, there is more than one viewpoint on this subject, here. Imagine that.

acptulsa
11-07-2012, 12:43 PM
None of that matters, politicians are Pavlovian dogs who can be conditioned to do what you want them to do if you know how. No education on their part needed.

Hell of a way to talk about the Pauls, there, Collins. I had no idea you had such contempt for them.

The Pavlovian dogs don't need education under two conditions: The public is also uneducated and you have lots and lots of money. How exactly does this help us, Matt?

Yeah, we could buy any manner of unprincipled politicians if we had the money. Or we could do our damnedest to get people like the Pauls in, because they do not salivate on command--being an evolutionary step above dogs whether you care to admit it or not.

Matt Collins
11-07-2012, 12:47 PM
Hell of a way to talk about the Pauls, there, Collins. I had no idea you had such contempt for them.There are exceptions, Ron Rand, Amash, and a few others are exceptions. But most are not.



The Pavlovian dogs don't need education under two conditions: The public is also uneducated and you have lots and lots of money. How exactly does this help us, Matt?

Yeah, we could buy any manner of unprincipled politicians if we had the money. Or we could do our damnedest to get people like the Pauls in, because they do not salivate on command--being an evolutionary step above dogs whether you care to admit it or not.Well yes we should strive to get educated politicians into office, but in the mean time, we can manipulate the ones that are already there. In fact the objective is to get them on record voting for / against legislation that we can use against them in a future race.

acptulsa
11-07-2012, 12:52 PM
There are exceptions...

Well yes we should strive to get educated politicians into office...

Trav and I are ready for you to swallow your 'Incorrect.' arrogance and apologize to us.

Matthew5
11-07-2012, 02:21 PM
I guess after this election, I realized that there's alot more ground work that needs to be done before we're ever successful as a movement. We've made inroads in the areas of introducing once ivory tower concepts to a wider audience, but we've got to go deeper. Deeper in the sense that we have to shift the way we learn entirely.

Everyone's got a role to play in the movement and we'll still need politicians and political soldiers to continue fighting the battles. I don't have the stomach for conflict politics, so I know my role isn't there. But we probably need to focus on education alot more than we have. Especially among the youth!

I've begun plans to create a new K-12 school with an anti-establishment approach to education (in the sense of combatting the educational evolution in the past centurary) with a focus on self-paced, individualized education.

Perhaps we shouldn't look at how to prevent the collapse, rather, focus on having the infrastructure ready for when it does occur. I think Sir Ken Robinson said it well when he said, "we don't even know what's going to happen in five years, how can we prepare youth for what's going to happen in 40 years?" (paraphrase)

donnay
11-07-2012, 03:27 PM
I guess after this election, I realized that there's alot more ground work that needs to be done before we're ever successful as a movement. We've made inroads in the areas of introducing once ivory tower concepts to a wider audience, but we've got to go deeper. Deeper in the sense that we have to shift the way we learn entirely.

Everyone's got a role to play in the movement and we'll still need politicians and political soldiers to continue fighting the battles. I don't have the stomach for conflict politics, so I know my role isn't there. But we probably need to focus on education alot more than we have. Especially among the youth!

I've begun plans to create a new K-12 school with an anti-establishment approach to education (in the sense of combatting the educational evolution in the past centurary) with a focus on self-paced, individualized education.

Perhaps we shouldn't look at how to prevent the collapse, rather, focus on having the infrastructure ready for when it does occur. I think Sir Ken Robinson said it well when he said, "we don't even know what's going to happen in five years, how can we prepare youth for what's going to happen in 40 years?" (paraphrase)

Well said. +rep