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View Full Version : Gary Johnson Can we help Gary Johnson reach the 5% mark?




LibertyPA
11-05-2012, 08:27 AM
Though 5% of the popular vote for Gary Johnson means the next libertarian would get public funding, and that should not be a goal to have more spending.....this would make it far more likely that we have a libertarian in the Pres. Debates for 2016 - and even though this may not happen, it is likely enough to get me excited about voting for Gary Johnson and listening to three people at the next debate.
So my goal is to gather people to vote for Gary Johnson tomorrow. And I wanted to make a post and ask how many others out there support this goal - or are there still many who will be writing in other people?
There are many ways people can disagree with G.J., but getting a 3rd party in the debates on national tv to share the libertarian views to the masses in 2016 is one of many reasons he has my support!

I look forward to hearing other comments below, thanks!

asurfaholic
11-05-2012, 09:05 AM
Im writing in Ron Paul, and I'm going to feel great about it.

Andyc3020
11-05-2012, 09:16 AM
Am I the only one who feels dirty when I read the Libertarian party is trying to get public funds? I voted for Johnson, not because I want the Libertarian party to grow, but because the Republican party needs to adopt our ideas so we will eventually not need a Libertarian Party. Most people I talk to about Ron Paul and Gary Johnson agree with 95% of what I say, but they don't realise that Romney is not the guy to acomplish our goals. Gary Johnson is not perfect, but what he symbolizes is what is important to me. I am very hopeful about Rand Paul in 2016 no matter what some people in our community are saying about him.

LibertyPA
11-05-2012, 09:22 AM
Am I the only one who feels dirty when I read the Libertarian party is trying to get public funds? I voted for Johnson, not because I want the Libertarian party to grow, but because the Republican party needs to adopt our ideas so we will eventually not need a Libertarian Party. Most people I talk to about Ron Paul and Gary Johnson agree with 95% of what I say, but they don't realise that Romney is not the guy to acomplish our goals. Gary Johnson is not perfect, but what he symbolizes is what is important to me. I am very hopeful about Rand Paul in 2016 no matter what some people in our community are saying about him.

Yes, I did mention the public funding isn't idea -- but wouldn't it be wonderful to have a 3rd person on national tv for all 3 debates??

LibertyPA
11-05-2012, 09:23 AM
Im writing in Ron Paul, and I'm going to feel great about it.

clearly a great choice!
but if you want the message to be heard by many, wouldn't it be best to do all that you can to get a libertarian on national tv for the debates in 2016? this 5% sounds to me as the best and most likely way for that to happen.

ronpaulfollower999
11-05-2012, 09:24 AM
Am I the only one who feels dirty when I read the Libertarian party is trying to get public funds? I voted for Johnson, not because I want the Libertarian party to grow, but because the Republican party needs to adopt our ideas so we will eventually not need a Libertarian Party. Most people I talk to about Ron Paul and Gary Johnson agree with 95% of what I say, but they don't realise that Romney is not the guy to acomplish our goals. Gary Johnson is not perfect, but what he symbolizes is what is important to me. I am very hopeful about Rand Paul in 2016 no matter what some people in our community are saying about him.

No, you aren't the only one. I've been somewhat split between not voting, writing in Ron Paul, or voting Gary Johnson. I'm now leaning toward voting for GJ for lack of a better candidate on the ballot. Since RP is not a valid write-in where I live, I feel GJ is the best protest vote at the moment.

Sigh. At least 2008 had Chuck Baldwin.

ninepointfive
11-05-2012, 09:29 AM
Im writing in Ron Paul, and I'm going to feel great about it.

this thread is about Gary J - not writing in RP.



and to the OP - I did my part!

ronpaulfollower999
11-05-2012, 09:32 AM
Really, this thread belongs in the 2012 subforum, not GP.

nasaal
11-05-2012, 09:51 AM
Politicians must work within the system they have. Everyone keeps cheering Ron Paul for doing exactly that with the Republican party. Yet the same people are mad at the LP party for trying to get public funding that the US gov will spend anyway. People also seem to think that having two parties is a good system. Protest parties are not a means of fixing the parties. I feel you need at least another viable party to make parties really work for their votes. Otherwise even if people stop voting or do protest votes, the two parties will still always win.

jllundqu
11-05-2012, 09:52 AM
I'm in Arizona and voted for Gary Johnson. However, were I in a true battleground state, I might consider Romney simply to deny Obama the chance to appoint Supreme Court Justices who could easily vote to deny my 2nd amendment rights (Last vote was razor thin 5-4 decision!)

Each to his own and god bless america.

LibertyPA
11-05-2012, 09:58 AM
and to the OP - I did my part!

glad to hear it!

ninepointfive
11-05-2012, 10:11 AM
good point, nassal

asurfaholic
11-05-2012, 10:57 AM
this thread is about Gary J - not writing in RP.



and to the OP - I did my part!

Actually the thread is about voting, and the OP was making a respectable case for voting a certain way, to which in the nicest way i knew how, i responded "no."

The L party has some issues i would like to see resolved before i cast a vote for them, but thats just me. I totally understand the OP, and wish you the best of luck.

ninepointfive
11-05-2012, 11:00 AM
Actually the thread is about voting, and the OP was making a respectable case for voting a certain way, to which in the nicest way i knew how, i responded "no."

The L party has some issues i would like to see resolved before i cast a vote for them, but thats just me. I totally understand the OP, and wish you the best of luck.

I've had the urge to go into the write in RP threads, and comment - but have refrained. I think it's also a valid option, but would rather see those votes goto Gary.

Anyways, cool. best of luck to you too! =)

fisharmor
11-05-2012, 11:23 AM
I'll consider voting LP when they stop recruiting Republican carpetbaggers.
And I'll consider voting Republican when they field libertarians.

Brown Sapper
11-05-2012, 11:55 AM
I always thought getting another party 5% should be our next mission. If any party breaks that threshold it would in effect break two party system fallacy and soon you would have other parties breaking through or the R & D making new rules to keep people out. The only way we can beat these guys is break them at every avenue we can. Attack them at all sides.

sailingaway
11-05-2012, 12:01 PM
I'll consider voting LP when they stop recruiting Republican carpetbaggers.
And I'll consider voting Republican when they field libertarians.

Honestly, I think it is a shame the LP went in the direction it did JUST when Ron Paul was waking people up to principled voting.

ninepointfive
11-05-2012, 12:22 PM
Honestly, I think it is a shame the LP went in the direction it did JUST when Ron Paul was waking people up to principled voting.

You mean Bob Barr?

nasaal
11-05-2012, 12:26 PM
Honestly, I think it is a shame the LP went in the direction it did JUST when Ron Paul was waking people up to principled voting.
They lack competent strategists and local efforts. Hopefully the grass roots can eventually get toward fixing the local part.

torchbearer
11-05-2012, 12:27 PM
Honestly, I think it is a shame the LP went in the direction it did JUST when Ron Paul was waking people up to principled voting.

I've explained to you how that happen.
You think its a shame the best of the LP left that party to help Ron, thus leaving behind less principled members to run the ship?

sailingaway
11-05-2012, 12:28 PM
I've explained to you how that happen.
You think its a shame the best of the LP left that party to help Ron, thus leaving behind less principled members to run the ship?

No, but you left, before I ever knew Ron existed, because you thought he was the best. If I thought your candidate was the best, I'd be right there beside you, that is all.

torchbearer
11-05-2012, 12:30 PM
No, but you left, before I ever knew Ron existed, because you thought he was the best. If I thought your candidate was the best, I'd be right there beside you, that is all.

Maybe you are not understanding-
I wasn't the only guy that left, we left in legion to help Ron.
The reason the LP is crap is because of that exodus to help Ron.
I guess, we could have just stayed where we were.. and hope that someone else came along with over a decade of activist experience to lead to caucus organization.

sailingaway
11-05-2012, 12:36 PM
Maybe you are not understanding-
I wasn't the only guy that left, we left in legion to help Ron.
The reason the LP is crap is because of that exodus to help Ron.
I guess, we could have just stayed where we were.. and hope that someone else came along with over a decade of activist experience to lead to caucus organization.

No, I do understand how it got that way, and look forward to candidates I can support in the future. I am just saying that for THIS election things are where they are. You didn't become an activist in the GOP to help out the GOP but an outstanding candidate. Candidates matter. I have nothing against the LP and like you and others who identify with it.

erowe1
11-05-2012, 12:37 PM
Nope. 5% for GJ is not within the realm of possibility.

If we want to get libertarians elected into office, the field where we have to fight that battle is in GOP primaries, not general elections.

AFPVet
11-05-2012, 12:40 PM
I already know a lot of people frustrated with both parties and will be voting for Gary. My state doesn't count write ins, so myself and many others here will be voting Gary. I don't think there's a lot more that can be done....

ninepointfive
11-05-2012, 12:40 PM
Nope. 5% for GJ is not within the realm of possibility.

why is 5% not possible?

Brown Sapper
11-05-2012, 12:41 PM
The GOP has made its point loud and clear that they do not want us there. After this year's RNC I fully think that the Republican Party is too far gone to save.

nasaal
11-05-2012, 12:44 PM
No, I do understand how it got that way, and look forward to candidates I can support in the future. I am just saying that for THIS election things are where they are. You didn't become an activist in the GOP to help out the GOP but an outstanding candidate. Candidates matter. I have nothing against the GOP and like you and others who identify with it.

Nail on the head for the Candidates matter part. I'd support a constitutional Democrat or anyone who was a legit liberty type candidate. In this case I'll be supporting the LP and really hope that the party can grow. They really need to finally get on it with local elections. What exactly can be done to help their local approach?

CPUd
11-05-2012, 12:56 PM
Yes, I did mention the public funding isn't idea -- but wouldn't it be wonderful to have a 3rd person on national tv for all 3 debates??

Depends on how they define 'debates' on the next goaround. If it's anything like what they had this season, I'd rather watch baseball.

erowe1
11-05-2012, 12:56 PM
why is 5% not possible?

For the same reason that GJ winning the election is not possible. He won't get anywhere close to it. In order for him to do that well, this entire past year would have had to go entirely differently for him than it did. As it stands, he's set to get around 1% tomorrow. There's really nothing that could happen between now and then to multiply that by 5.

ninepointfive
11-05-2012, 01:28 PM
For the same reason that GJ winning the election is not possible. He won't get anywhere close to it. In order for him to do that well, this entire past year would have had to go entirely differently for him than it did. As it stands, he's set to get around 1% tomorrow. There's really nothing that could happen between now and then to multiply that by 5.

you may be right, but what is supposed to happen otherwise?

Andyc3020
11-05-2012, 01:46 PM
I would like the Republicans (Romney) to lose the popular vote by a margin close to or the same as GJ votes. They (Republicans) will then know they can not win the popular vote without us, and we (Libertarian leaning voters) will not budge from our principles. They will have to adjust their platform and candidates to please us. Unfortunately, the popular vote is probably not important enough to get that kind of attention.

These are just some thoughts off the top of my head. Anyone have thoughts on this?

LibertyGOP
11-05-2012, 02:38 PM
I would like the Republicans (Romney) to lose the popular vote by a margin close to or the same as GJ votes. They (Republicans) will then know they can not win the popular vote without us, and we (Libertarian leaning voters) will not budge from our principles. They will have to adjust their platform and candidates to please us. Unfortunately, the popular vote is probably not important enough to get that kind of attention.

These are just some thoughts off the top of my head. Anyone have thoughts on this?

I read your post and went to look at the latest national polls. No one is including third party candidates in their poll, which is fairly standard. But polling as "some other candidate" which would be the cumulative total of all third party candidates is as follows:

CNN: 2%
Rasmussen: 2%
Gallup: 3% (appears to be undecided plus others)
Monmouth: 2%
NBC/WSJ: 2%
Pew: 4%
ABC: 2%

2% seems to be the consensus number and keep in mind that that number is rounded, so it very well could be closer to 1.5%. When you look at 2008 results, 1.41% of voters voted for someone other than McCain or Obama. And in that race you did have Nader on the ballot. My guess is that the numbers won't change dramatically, if at all. The only thing that may be dramatically different is if a large majority of those 2% are Johnson voters, and the other third party candidates have lost the majority of their support, but I doubt that is the case.

LibertyPA
11-05-2012, 02:45 PM
Actually the thread is about voting, and the OP was making a respectable case for voting a certain way, to which in the nicest way i knew how, i responded "no."

The L party has some issues i would like to see resolved before i cast a vote for them, but thats just me. I totally understand the OP, and wish you the best of luck.

Correct - this is a question/topic about EITHER voting for G.Johnson OR for a write in (and yes, R.P. would qualify)

LibertyPA
11-05-2012, 02:49 PM
Nope. 5% for GJ is not within the realm of possibility.


Oh no? Are there any polls or guesses out there as to just about how close/far G.J. may come to 5%?

LibertyPA
11-05-2012, 02:51 PM
Depends on how they define 'debates' on the next goaround. If it's anything like what they had this season, I'd rather watch baseball.

If one person is getting public funding and has "some" support -- i think there would be a much easier protest to make for that 3rd party to be included.
and yes of course they could change the rules.

LibertyPA
11-05-2012, 02:52 PM
For the same reason that GJ winning the election is not possible. He won't get anywhere close to it. In order for him to do that well, this entire past year would have had to go entirely differently for him than it did. As it stands, he's set to get around 1% tomorrow. There's really nothing that could happen between now and then to multiply that by 5.

if that 1% is accurate, you're right -- no chance he will get close to 5%

LibertyPA
11-05-2012, 02:55 PM
I would like the Republicans (Romney) to lose the popular vote by a margin close to or the same as GJ votes. They (Republicans) will then know they can not win the popular vote without us, and we (Libertarian leaning voters) will not budge from our principles. They will have to adjust their platform and candidates to please us. Unfortunately, the popular vote is probably not important enough to get that kind of attention.

These are just some thoughts off the top of my head. Anyone have thoughts on this?

It's argued that in states (such as CO) that 3rd party groups (such as G.J.) will be taking away votes from Obama. So you need G.J. to have more than just that margin. Also, most reports (even on the left) think Romney will win the popular and slightly lose the election. Not sure this is realistic or would matter to the GOP.

LibertyGOP
11-05-2012, 02:57 PM
Oh no? Are there any polls or guesses out there as to just about how close/far G.J. may come to 5%?

Polling companies typically do not include the third party candidates, because the people that want the information don't care if Johnson is getting 0.5% or 1.0%, so all the third party candidates are collectively thrown into "other". I doubt any of the third party candidates have their own internal polling, it is just too costly.

LibertyGOP
11-05-2012, 03:01 PM
if that 1% is accurate, you're right -- no chance he will get close to 5%

5% if I did my math right is about 6.5 million votes. Outside of NM, I think you would have a hard time finding that many people who even know who he is.

Valli6
11-05-2012, 03:02 PM
I believe Ron Paul agrees with the OP. He had this to say about writing in his name in 2008:

"I donít think thatís very productive. Supporters can do it, of course, but in most of the states it wonít count. And if they can change the rules in a primary and not count all the votes, imagine what they could do with write-in votes!"
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/21556.html

Later that year, he held a press conference to encourage third party voting, and explained that it's pretty much the only vote that might bring about the competition necessary to break the duopoly.

(9/10/08)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4SYfaNWvAU
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq8Q3H5WZm4
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q-JVevYyMQ
Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPrSgBQFBFM
Part 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCVtTiQ9KsA
Part 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ2opCJYnh0
Part 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvvpDMO7hA0
Part 8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3nLZcAdmJM
Part 9 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7p_OPr3nsw

Why the complaints about the Libertarian party being eligible for public funds? They have to work within the system that currently exists, just as Ron Paul has when, for example, he earmarks money to reimburse his constituents a portion of taxes paid.

Considering that each presidential nominee from a "major" party can become eligible for over $20 million in public grants, we should all be thrilled at the possibility of depriving future Democrats and Republicans of 1/3 of that amount! They both received $18,248,300 just to hold their sham conventions. Who can't support taking over $12 million away from the dems and repubs?

A 5% Libertarian vote in 2012 means competition in 2016, and positively benefits the liberty movement. It means debating real issues in 2016. It would force the 2 parties to alter their behavior to earn our votes. It HURTS the duopoly! Writing in Paul's name may make you personally feel great, but then what? Ron Paul said it's not about him, it's shouldn't be about you either.

Still, I will be interested to hear what kind of totals Ron Paul receives in the few states where his totals will (allegedly) be counted. No offense to those writing him in - I just don't trust the officials to take any care with the counting of write-in votes, or to announce the count any time soon. Nor do I believe Ron Paul's vote totals will ever be known or discussed by anyone but us.

LibertyPA
11-05-2012, 03:24 PM
IA 5% Libertarian vote in 2012 means competition in 2016, and positively benefits the liberty movement. It means debating real issues in 2016. It would force the 2 parties to alter their behavior to earn our votes. It HURTS the duopoly!

that is my hope!!

thank you for sharing all your video clips Valli6!

sailingaway
11-05-2012, 03:27 PM
Yeah, Valli, and then Barr stood him up and held a spite conference immediately after, piggybacking on RON'S crowd, saying Ron should have only endosed LP.

THIS year Ron said a write in campaign is worthwhile.

I agree that 'none of the two preferred' is the main goal, but if you are going to use Ron Paul to move against writing in RON PAUL, on his own forum, you should at least show the up to date information.

And you can write him in in PA although counties will vary on if they will count it or if someone will have to go in and do it per Melissa who looked into it.

And you know the likelihood of getting anything like 5% is vanishingly small - about that of Ron's taking California. Both possible, both highly unlikely.

I don't come in here and cut down Gary but if you post misleading stuff to make people NOT write in Ron Paul, particularly using RON PAUL clips from when he used his political capital to give 3d parties a boost only to have it thrown back in his face, I will answer it.

at 26:50 here he starts Q & A and the first question is about a supporter led write in campaign, and he answers it. This was last month.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpi6EEx3TnM

69360
11-05-2012, 04:21 PM
5 would be a cold day in hell. 2 would be a miracle. I'm voting for him anyway.

ninepointfive
11-05-2012, 04:48 PM
5 would be a cold day in hell. 2 would be a miracle. I'm voting for him anyway.

nice - same here

nasaal
11-05-2012, 05:17 PM
Maybe we can push for 3? That'd be pretty remarkable.

svf
11-05-2012, 05:22 PM
5% nationally would be epic yet unlikely. But keep in mind that in many states, the percentage to get automatic ballot access for LP is much lower...

http://www.lp.org/blogs/staff/statewide-libertarian-vote-totals-that-will-give-lp-ballot-access


The LP will win ballot access through 2014 if Libertarian for President, Gov. Gary Johnson, meets or exceeds these votes totals:

.5% - New Mexico
1% - Wisconsin
2% - Kentucky
2% - Iowa
2% - North Carolina
3% - Arkansas
3% - Massachusetts
5% - Maine
5% - Minnesota
5% - North Dakota
5% - Rhode Island
10% - Virginia

Rules vary for non-presidential races as well.

Connecticut treats ballot access on an office-by-office basis. If LP Presidential candidate Governor Gary Johnson and Vice-Presidential candidate Judge Jim Gray get 1% of the vote in Connecticut, it will give the 2016 Libertarian presidential nominee ballot access in 2016; likewise for other offices in Connecticut.

In DC, if Governor Johnson or the candidate for Delegate to the US House gets 7,500 votes, then ballot access is attained in DC for the first time in the party’s history.

In Georgia, if Governor Gary Johnson or any statewide candidate gets 1%, then statewide candidates can run without petitioning in 2014.

In Illinois, if Governor Johnson or any statewide candidate gets 5%, then statewide candidates there can run in 2014 without petitioning.

In Michigan, if Governor Johnson or any other candidate gets 16,083 votes, which is 1% of the votes cast for the successful 2010 Secretary of State, they retain ballot access.

For Nevada, Governor Johnson or any other candidate must get 1% of the votes cast for all of the 2012 Nevada US House candidates to retain ballot access.

If the New Hampshire gubernatorial candidates get 4%, then ballot access is attained through 2014.

In North Carolina, either the presidential or gubernatorial candidates must receive 2% of the vote to retain Libertarian ballot access through 2016.

In Utah, Governor Johnson or any other candidate must get 2% of the total votes cast for all of the 2012 Utah US House candidates to retain ballot access.

In West Virginia, if the gubernatorial candidate gets 1%, then the LP retains ballot access through 2016.

In Wyoming, if the US House candidate gets 2%, then ballot access is retained through 2014.

UMULAS
11-05-2012, 05:58 PM
Everyone I knew voted for GJ; let's reach for the stars!

LibertyPA
11-05-2012, 06:24 PM
THIS year Ron said a write in campaign is worthwhile.

at 26:50 here he starts Q & A and the first question is about a supporter led write in campaign, and he answers it. This was last month.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpi6EEx3TnM


He said he neither encourages or discourages it.
and he says if these people can bring attention to certain issues then it is worthwhile.

Not exactly saying for THIS year that HE wants to be a write-in....i took this as him talking more in a generality.

Though I don't think he would mind the write-in, he did also comment that write in votes tend NOT to be counted.

I still think a goal of 5% (no matter how unrealistic) would be wonderful because whoever runs in 2016 could be heard if they get to be on tv for the three national debate - which would be huge!!


Thank you for taking the time to share the clip -- it was great to listen to!!

LibertyPA
11-05-2012, 06:25 PM
Everyone I knew voted for GJ; let's reach for the stars!

I am on board too!!!

LibertyPA
11-06-2012, 06:58 AM
I got one more person to vote for Johnson......but not done talking yet, many more hours for people to vote!!!

sluggo
11-06-2012, 07:05 AM
Local news station ran a story this morning about some elementary school mock elections.

Obama won by a large margin.

Gary Johnson got 3%.

ronpaulfollower999
11-06-2012, 07:20 AM
I did my part this morning.

ropo
11-06-2012, 08:26 AM
5%? I'd be happy if he broke 1.5%

A. Havnes
11-06-2012, 08:40 AM
I'm going to the polls today to vote for Gary Johnson!

brandon
11-06-2012, 08:59 AM
He's not gonna even come close to 5%, but I voted for him anyway.

Lovecraftian4Paul
11-06-2012, 09:03 AM
Doubt he'll get anywhere near the 5% mark, but I am voting for him today. Even walking away with 1% and over a million votes is a big success by LP standards.

UMULAS
11-06-2012, 10:52 AM
Hey, if he breaks the LP record, then I am staying the Libertarian Party.

If not, it's GOP for me.

Qdog
11-06-2012, 11:26 AM
Gary Johnson got 4 votes from my family today. That makes is a total of 6 votes for him counting my mom and step dad who earl voted.

pahs1994
11-06-2012, 12:05 PM
I just Voted GJ. My girlfriend is going to vote for him later, and i have 2 more Democrat converts defiantly voting for him to reach the 5% and another 2 that are 50/50 i just got them thinking about voting for him now but when they go after work they seem like they can sway pretty easily.

So at worst I account for 4 GJ votes =P

+Rep me :D

UpperDecker
11-06-2012, 12:28 PM
Myself and my girlfriend are voting for GJ today. I was telling my mom about the 5% deal last night and would have had her and my dad voting for GJ as well, but they did absentee ballots this year and it was too late.

Valli6
11-06-2012, 02:45 PM
I don't come in here and cut down Gary but if you post misleading stuff to make people NOT write in Ron Paul, particularly using RON PAUL clips from when he used his political capital to give 3d parties a boost only to have it thrown back in his face, I will answer it.

Incredible response! You imply that I'm anti-Paul, that I'm gloating and happy to not be voting for Ron Paul today, that I prefer Gary Johnson as a candidate and that I'm posting lies. Ron Paul didn't hold that press conference in 2008 to give 3d parties "a boost" - he held it because he knows we need to be rid of the phony 2-party system. Without competition we will never be free of the them (sans an ugly revolution). You might better understand my viewpoint if you had been around to witness - from the prospective of a Paul supporter - how the 2008 election campaign played out, and which of our actions influenced what followed after.

I have not told anyone how to vote, nor have I misled anyone. I posted a Paul quote on write-ins and Paul videos on third parties. I would hope that Paul supporters ponder his words when deciding how to vote when Ron Paul is not on the ballot. He is a very polite and will not tell you straight out how to vote - or how not to vote.


THIS year Ron said a write in campaign is worthwhile.

THIS is misleading. That's not what he said. In fact, his statement about write-in campaigns in the video from Oct. sounds a lot like what he said in the Lew Rockwell piece from '08. He just comes off a little more positive. The person asking the question has just stated that they intend to write him in, so I would expect a well-mannered reply from such a polite and consistent man.

In 2008 Ron Paul said:
"I donít think thatís very productive. Supporters can do it, of course, but in most of the states it wonít count. And if they can change the rules in a primary and not count all the votes, imagine what they could do with write-in votes!"

In 2012 Ron Paul said:
"... I neither encourage it nor discourage it because of the frustrationÖ

"Supporters can do it, of course," implies the same thing as "I neither encourage it nor discourage it" which is consistent with "every individual should make up their own mind!" (part of his statement when asked about Gary Johnson at the 2012 RNC).

"there shouldn't be anything wrong with it, but I don't ever like to lead people to deception like - Oh yeah! if we have this write-in campaign, then all of the sudden major things are gonna happen - and that's not true."
So he expects major things will not happen from write-ins. Sounds like he still believes it will not be "very productive".

"If there is a write-in campaign, those individuals that are doing it, the most important thing is to hold their feet to the fire and make them count 'em."
He still has doubts about the counting of write-in votes. Good for those of you that will fight to see that these votes get counted, but I have little confidence that your hard work will pay off. I am not happy to say this, I just believe that is the reality we're working with. I could be wrong. You have already long committed yourselves to this idea and I won't presume to change your minds.

"If these campaigns - one way or the other - can get attention to certain issues then I think it's worthwhile."

He says it's worthwhile IF it means certain issues get attention. That would be great. Which issues do you see being impacted by write-in votes? Will it improve ballot access for non-establishment candidates? Will it force some competition on the Democrats/Republicans? Will it deprive them of any tax payer money? Will it encourage any particular demographic to reroute future campaign donations to someone other than a Democrat or a Republican? Will Ron Paul's write-in votes force the Presidential Debate Commission to include more than 2 nominees in 2016? Will the mainstream media soon be discussing Ron Paul so fervently that the the general public will finally become aware of him? or the fact there are more than 2 political parties and that they've been participating in a sham?


"if you are going to use Ron Paul to move against writing in RON PAUL, on his own forumÖ"
What?! Don't make me out to be some villain. I simply quoted his stated viewpoints on write-ins and third parties. You may interpret his words differently than I. If so, you haven't explained that interpretation. Instead, you've implied that I am against Ron Paul and I'm trying to harm him and those who support him. I'm expressing what I see as the unfortunate reality of our circumstances, but you are taking it as an insult because it is doesn't support the decision that's made you so happy. Frankly, if i supported the duopoly, I would encourage anyone not voting for my candidate, to write in someone's name rather than voting Libertarian, since maintaining the duopoly ensures that no real change will occur.


And you know the likelihood of getting anything like 5% is vanishingly small - about that of Ron's taking California. Both possible, both highly unlikely.
You're telling me that Johnson can't win 5% and I shouldn't waste my vote? This from a Ron Paul supporter? Next you'll be telling me it's all rigged anyway, so why even bother.


Yeah, Valli, and then Barr stood him up and held a spite conference immediately after, piggybacking on RON'S crowd, saying Ron should have only endosed LP.
What does Bob Barr or any other Libertarian you dislike, have to do with the 2012 presidential election, Gary Johnson, or how one might cast their vote in a way that most benefits the liberty movement?

I have come to the conclusion that the best use of my vote, the only "political influence" I have, is to strive to increase competition in the election process. While I will not feel a warm glow inside when I cast my vote, I am able to express a tangible, pro-liberty result which can be achieved from this election... if the Libertarian vote reachs that 5% threshold.

AFPVet
11-06-2012, 02:48 PM
I just did my part. Libertarian straight ticket :)