Sorry, but all I see in this story is a huge waste of taxpayer money.

[liberty2897]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/11/04/police-helicopter-crash-atlanta/1680107/


]7:29PM EST November 4. 2012 -

ATLANTA (AP) — A low-flying police helicopter searching for a runaway boy hit a power line pole before it plummeted to the ground and exploded, killing both officers on board but leaving those on the ground unharmed.

Federal authorities were investigating what caused the chopper to crash into power lines along on a busy city street. Electricity was knocked out to nearby homes and businesses in an area filled with shopping plazas, fast-food restaurants and a gas station.

The 9-year-old boy was found wandering on a city street a couple of hours after the crash late Saturday night, Atlanta police spokesman Officer John Chafee said Sunday. He ran away after being scolded by his mother.

The two officers were identified Sunday as pilot Richard J. Halford, 48, of Lithia Springs, who had been with the department for 26 years, and Shawn A. Smiley, 40, of Lithonia, a tactical flight officer who joined the department two years ago.

Atlanta Police Chief George Turner praised the two officers as public servants who died honorably in the search for the missing boy. Both men were fathers. Smiley had three children under the age of 10.

"Every day, they provided air support for our officers, assisting in major events and searches for suspects and missing persons," Turner said in a news release. "Their value to our citizens and our officers on the street is incalculable."

The families have asked for privacy, and trust funds have been set up at Wells Fargo bank locations to help them, said Atlanta police spokesman Carlos Campos.

Their deaths shook not only the police force, but the entire city.

"It's sad. It's tragic … for someone to lose their lives trying to find a kid, trying to keep another family together," Rodney Christian, 22, said as he and more than a dozen others looked at the scene in the early morning darkness Sunday. Christian lamented the tragedy and thought of his 1-month-old baby.

"It makes me want to rush home and get back to my kid."

The wreckage of the OH-6A helicopter had already been moved as investigators worked to piece together what happened, said Eric M. Weiss, a spokesman with the National Transportation Safety Board.


Part of the helicopter's landing gear had to be removed from the cables with the help of the power company.

The NTSB investigators were going over maintenance records and had talked to witnesses.

"They saw the aircraft, they heard the aircraft, and then they saw a flash of light when it hit the pole and then it crashed into the roadway," investigator Ralph Hicks said.

Records with the Federal Aviation Administration showed the helicopter was a Hughes OH-6A manufactured in 1967. The Hughes has historically been a military workhorse.

Atlanta police referred questions about what caused the crash to federal investigators.

Bystander Darryl James, 42, said he had gone with a companion to a check-cashing store Saturday night when he heard the helicopter flying overhead and thought it was rather low.

"The tail end went down and then there was an explosion," James said. He said he tried to get close to the wreckage. "As soon as I got close enough to it, poom! It exploded."

James said people are often waiting at a normally busy bus stop near the crash site, adding, "Thank God nobody was out there."

After the crash, fire trucks and police cars with lights flashing converged on the area, blocking surrounding roads. Police put up yellow crime scene tape and kept bystanders so far back they were unable to see the crash site behind a small rise.

Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed said he was saddened by what he called a "terrible accident."

"We mourn these two brave men and offer our deepest condolences to their families and loved ones," Reed said in a statement.

[oyarde]

I agree .

[sailingaway]

Well, and dead people.

[juleswin]

Forget about wasting money, what an idiotic thing to do, why in the world would u use a helicopter to search for a missing kid along a busy street? I can understand if the kid was lost in the wilderness or some remote hard to access area. I think what we have here is 2 men who were to eager to fly around in their new toy and took off using this as their excuse.

I dont even know how exactly you go about looking for a kid in a busy street but I sure know a helicopter isn't it

[liberty2897]

Well, and dead people.

Yes. That part is sad.

[oyarde]

Yes, loss of life,and actually, that probably adds to the expense , probably a life policy paid for in part , by taxpayers , the carrier would raise rates on the dept?

[oyarde]

Yes. That part is sad. Yes it is , because it was such a waste.

[oyarde]

Forget about wasting money, what an idiotic thing to do, why in the world would u use a helicopter to search for a missing kid along a busy street? I can understand if the kid was lost in the wilderness or some remote hard to access area. I think what we have here is 2 men who were to eager to fly around in their new toy and took off using this as their excuse.

I dont even know how exactly you go about looking for a kid in a busy street but I sure know a helicopter isn't it I agree, not an expert on lost children , but that sounds dumber than shit . On the bright side, I never lost any children :) , I had mine working in the fields where I could keep an eye on 'em....

[liberty2897]

Yes it is , because it was such a waste.

My thoughts too... waste of money, time, effort, life. Sounds like government to me.

Sounds like the kid ran away for being scolded... I probably shouldn't say it, but I'm thinking welfare mom.. so there is that possibility of wasted money too.

[invisible]

The families have asked for privacy, and trust funds have been set up at Wells Fargo bank locations to help them, said Atlanta police spokesman Carlos Campos.

wtf! :mad: Where's the trust fund for the families of those who are killed by cops? Where's the trust fund for those who require medical care due to the actions of cops? Where's the trust fund for the legal defense of police brutality victims, and being able to sue the bastards?

[sparebulb]

Boys with toys.

OH-6's are likely military surplus giveaways to the cops. Our local sheriff's department got some of them a few years ago to look for dope. They got three or four helicopters in a basket and they pieced together one "flyable" one from the parts. A real scary piece of crap.

Government agencies have the choice to operate these aircraft under the same FAA regulations that you and I would, meaning that they would inspect the aircraft yearly or every 100 hours and the pilots would have the proper certificates and required recurrent training.........OR.........government agencies can choose to operate aircraft as "public use". This means that they aren't required to inspect the aircraft, repair any mechanical defects, or even use pilots that have any pilot certifications whatsoever. There are way more public use aircraft out there than you might think.

[oyarde]

wtf! :mad: Where's the trust fund for the families of those who are killed by cops? Where's the trust fund for those who require medical care due to the actions of cops? Where's the trust fund for the legal defense of police brutality victims, and being able to sue the bastards? I take it you do not have a fund .....

[asurfaholic]

Flying low enough to crash into power lines? Over a busy street??I dont care what you are looking for, that's stupid as shit. No sympathy for them, although i feel bad for the kids who lost their stupid dads. Gonna be tough for them.

[liberty2897]

wtf! :mad: Where's the trust fund for the families of those who are killed by cops? Where's the trust fund for those who require medical care due to the actions of cops? Where's the trust fund for the legal defense of police brutality victims, and being able to sue the bastards?

+rep
Where is the trust fund for all those people that lost their dogs due to illegal home searches followed by gunfire? Even if you don't put a high value on a dogs life, you have to admit that these people are at least owed an apology, replacement, or money to replace the dog. Personally, I'm one of those people that considers a dog much more than a piece of property. Dogs love their people with no strings attached. They are family. I don't think you can put a dollar value on that. I'm not saying taxpayers should take care of this, but it would be great to see a fucking "Wells Fargo" looking out for the mundanes once in a while too.

[liberty2897]

Flying low enough to crash into power lines? Over a busy street??I dont care what you are looking for, that's stupid as shit. No sympathy for them, although i feel bad for the kids who lost their stupid dads. Gonna be tough for them.

Yes, this is the worst part of the story (kids loosing their fathers). I don't like cops. They can be (and usually are) dicks, but I don't wish them dead because of it.

I feel bad for the countless families that cops have destroyed for no apparent reason other than serving and protecting the state instead of the people they profess to be working for. This whole story is just a giant cluster f**k that should remind each and every one of us that government cannot solve your problems. Millions of dollars being spent because Johnny ran away from home for the night?

[sparebulb]

An interesting article about public use aircraft, specifically helicopters. I wouldn't be surprised if the author was one of "us". He definitely gets it.

http://helicopterflight.net/public_special.htm


Commentary on Public Use Aircraft, and Summary of the NTSB special report on Public Use Aircraft accidents

The entire report can be downloaded from this link. There is such a high number of accidents with Public Use Aircraft that the NTSB conducted an investigation into the matter. As with most of their special investigations, they make a big deal of it at the time, but nothing ever came of it especially since it involved a lot of Police agencies. This lack of oversight by the FAA is one of their most negligent issues.

There are strict regulations regarding the use of military donated aircraft (those without airworthiness certificates) for training and commercial use. When it comes to maintenance and some other uses, public use aircraft are exempted from many regulations. Since the core of the problem with regard to the FAA is training and certification oversight, I will talk mostly about that for the moment.

It is illegal to conduct training in aircraft which do not have an airworthiness certificate, and those that have not been maintained in accordance with the standards required to maintain that certificate. In other words, most aircraft that have been donated by the military to government agencies, there are some exceptions. It is illegal to bill for the use of these aircraft as well (commercial use), but this occurs within some agencies in an under-the-table sort of way, and the FAA ignores and denies that they have knowledge of this. This is kind of like those part 91 airplane owners who charge for flights without a part 135 certificate.

Even though this illegal training and under-the-table commercial billing occurs, it continues, is widespread, and the FAA simply ignores it. Further, government training should be to the same standard as all civil aviation, but this often does not occur. Recently, I was talking to a police pilot in a county with a large aviation unit. I was talking to the pilot about an OH-58A that they were flying, as I was working on a project of aiding another police agency with establishing a police aviation unit, and their donated aircraft was an OH-58A. My interest was in tail rotor authority, how they delt with the potential of LTE, and what their policies were with high risk maneuvering. This pilot asked what LTE was, and after I explained it to him, he further stated that he had no training with regard to it. He also stated that he had obtained all of his training within the police aviation unit in the OH-58A; ALL ILLEGAL, but he didn't know that either.

I was talking to a state police pilot in the same state just a couple of months later. In this conversation, he mentioned that he was preparing to take a check ride for an advanced rating. When he mentioned the examiners name, it was someone I knew, not surprising as aviation is a small world, and when it comes to helicopters, it is smaller still. When I inquired a little deeper, he stated that he had obtained all of his training within the state police aviation unit in the OH-58, but that the FAA would not conduct his check ride in that aircraft, so he had to travel to a location where he could rent a Bell 206B (Jet Ranger). 100 percent of his training was illegal; the local FSDO was well aware, and ignored it.

In the NTSB special report, the NTSB states in part that public use pilots commonly possessed advance certificates, yet the accident rate among these pilots is higher than their civil counterparts. This should not be surprising since public use pilots get token training at taxpayer expense, and they get token check-rides which consist largely of an oral of pilot hanger talk if there is any talk at all. The majority of the flight portion of their check-ride consists of a sightseeing joy ride. That of course is why the pilot mentioned above had no knowledge of LTE in an aircraft where LTE is a primary concern. It wasn't taught in his training and it wasn't asked about during his practical test.

The ALEA (Airborne Law Enforcement Association) is in an ongoing fight to obtain full exemption from all FAA control just as the military has. There is significant reason that this should never occur! First and foremost, no government agency should EVER be permitted to compete with the private sector, and police aviation does just that. The military on the other hand has very strict and rigorous training requirements, and there are very few training accidents compared to public service.

Public Use aviation bilks the American people out of billions of dollars each year through abuse, lies and deceit. There are simply no words strong enough to describe the magnitude of the abuse of the system which occurs. The American people are kept in the dark and scammed by nearly all government agencies beginning with the federal government right on down to their local fish and game, fire, and police departments. Understand that Public Use Aviation does not include military aviation.

Anytime the government operates something that could be operated in the private sector, it takes a source of tax income out which causes a need for higher taxes by the remaining sources. It is a domino effect that can not be overstressed. With regard to public use aircraft, this often occurs where they determine that they can use the publicly owned helicopter for many things and it is soon used as an air ambulance competing with companies that do that for their source of income. This takes even more jobs out of the private sector.

Agencies operating helicopters commonly deceive the public with regard to the cost of operation of their helicopter fleet claiming that the aircraft and parts are free from the military. While this is a partial truth in some cases, it has a lot of falsehoods buried in it to maintain financial support; the public would have a come apart if they knew the real truth. Fuel and oil is never free; labor is never free especially if it is government employees; there are countless expensive parts and materials that do not come from the government. The cost of insurance is very expensive. The cost of operations of a typical light helicopter in the private sector is about $290 per flight hour. Although the cost of acquisition of an initial aircraft for a government agency may be free or nearly free, when you consider the actual DOC plus abuse of privilege by the agency operating the aircraft, the end cost per operational hour to the public will most likely far exceed the cost per hour in the private sector. Then compound these costs by the high accident rate keeping in mind that the cost of the accident does not end with the damage to the aircraft which is the least of all costs. The highest cost is medical and compensatory costs to families of injured or killed persons.

One of the problems with regard to the FAA and helicopter aviation oversight is the fact that they don't have enough inspectors with a helicopter background. In fact, there are some FSDO's that have a total lack of inspectors with in-depth helicopter knowledge. You might be surprised to learn that the FAA will even send an inspector who has no knowledge of helicopter operations, out to investigate a helicopter accident. Now that is going to have a good outcome isn't it.

At the end of the day, it is no wonder that the accident rate is so high in public use aircraft. The FAA needs to become a responsible agency more supportive of general aviation in the United States. They need to do what is necessary to aid general aviation pilots; grow some backbone and do what is right. But when will any government agency ever to that?

[Anti Federalist]

And what if this kid had been found, and ran away from the cops?

What do you suppose would have happened?

[aGameOfThrones]

This is another reason why I think police departments need drones.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

And what if this kid had been found, and ran away from the cops?

What do you suppose would have happened?

Well you seem to be the only sensible individual in this thread. Goddamn man, kids aren't fucking slaves. No one should have been looking for him if he chose to leave of his own volition. Fuck.

[tod evans]

I agree, not an expert on lost children , but that sounds dumber than shit . On the bright side, I never lost any children :) , I had mine working in the fields where I could keep an eye on 'em....

2pts!

[presence]

This is another reason why I think police departments need drones.

is that sarcasm or are you being serious? and who's velho?

[WilliamShrugged]

Same with this story...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DL-a-r7iJIU

[belian78]

Well you seem to be the only sensible individual in this thread. Goddamn man, kids aren't fucking slaves. No one should have been looking for him if he chose to leave of his own volition. Fuck.
Oh come on, the kid was 9. Old enough to get pissed and start walking, but still young enough to be freaked out when he/she realized they didn't recognize the area anymore. No, a freakin heli wasn't needed but to say he shouldn't have been looked for is just dumb.

[SeanTX]

"After the crash, fire trucks and police cars with lights flashing converged on the area, blocking surrounding roads. Police put up yellow crime scene tape and kept bystanders so far back they were unable to see the crash site behind a small rise."

Maybe it's just the tinfoil crackpot in me, but it seems like the cops now go a lot further out of their way to use ANY excuse to barricade areas as off-limits to us mundanes, maybe as a means of getting us used to that sort of thing.

Here locally cops have recently taken to shutting down entire major intersections for hours on end for "accident re-enactments." They announce these on the radio ahead of time, warning motorists to avoid these areas, and these things take place days or even weeks after the accident occurred! I never heard of this happening until very recently. What can they do on the scene that they couldn't do on a map ?