269-269

[FrancisMarion]

Chances of 269-269?

If it were to happen thus would follow according to the 12th amendment to the Constitution of the United States:


....; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President

Chances of RP getting 3rd number of votes nationally in the EC?

One can always hope while there is still possibility; never mind probability.

[thoughtomator]

If that happens, a Republican faithless elector will jump ship and give Obama the victory. Guaranteed. I've seen the GOP do the equivalent too many times not to know this script.

[sailingaway]

Chances of 269-269?

If it were to happen thus would follow according to the 12th amendment to the Constitution of the United States:



Chances of RP getting 3rd number of votes nationally?

One can always hope while there is still possibility; never mind probability.

How unlikely do you want to get in this unlikely already scenario?

Because it is a fact Ron Paul has supporters who will be electors. Not many, but some. But could you see the House voting for him?

[FrancisMarion]

If that happens, a Republican faithless elector will jump ship and give Obama the victory. Guaranteed. I've seen the GOP do the equivalent too many times not to know this script.

when would a elector jump ship?

12th:


...which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; --the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and HOR, open all certificates and the votes shall be counted;....

[FrancisMarion]

How unlikely do you want to get in this unlikely already scenario?

Because it is a fact Ron Paul has supporters who will be electors. Not many, but some. But could you see the House voting for him?

I think there are more in the House that are sympathetic than they publicly claim. But to answer your question, No.

[matt0611]

If its a tie then the house will vote Romney President.

[FrancisMarion]

If its a tie then the house will vote Romney President.

and then what of the Vice President?

[sailingaway]

and then what of the Vice President?

Senate would vote for Biden I would expect, unless the GOP takes the Senate which I don't really see happening.

[ronpaulfollower999]

I'm rooting for a 269 scenario with no faithless electors (unless they go for Johnson, Paul, bigfoot, etc. Just don't put anyone over 270).

But I thought the top 3 vote getters had to do with electoral college, not popular vote?

[matt0611]

and then what of the Vice President?

I think the Senate would choose, hmm...that could be interesting haha

A Romney / Obama presidency?

Talk about nightmares lol

[ronpaulfollower999]

It would be even more exciting if the Senate was a 50-50 split. Then Biden would cast the tie breaking vote.

[matt0611]

It would be even more exciting if the Senate was a 50-50 split. Then Biden would cast the tie breaking vote.

It can't be can it?

Because even if the republicans took the senate they wouldn't take over until next year.

[FrancisMarion]

I'm rooting for a 269 scenario with no faithless electors (unless they go for Johnson, Paul, bigfoot, etc. Just don't put anyone over 270).

But I thought the top 3 vote getters had to do with electoral college, not popular vote?

I've checked my Pocket and you are correct. I will change my OP.

[Confederate]

It would be even more exciting if the Senate was a 50-50 split. Then Biden would cast the tie breaking vote.

A Romney-Biden administration with Biden controlling the Senate? That would be fun.

[sailingaway]

I think the Senate would choose, hmm...that could be interesting haha

A Romney / Obama presidency?

Talk about nightmares lol

Obama isn't a candidate for VP, don't they have to choose amongst the electoral college candidates for VP? I'm not sure, to be honest, but I thought so.

[sailingaway]

A Romney-Biden administration with Biden controlling the Senate? That would be fun.

Romney and Biden are as similar as McCain and Lieberman. All four are in the Corporatist Squish party, with neoconservative foreign policy.

[thoughtomator]

The Senate isn't involved in a tie breaker - the House chooses the President if the Electoral College can't decide.

[sailingaway]

The Senate isn't involved in a tie breaker - the House chooses the President if the Electoral College can't decide.

but the Senate chooses VP I believe

[Confederate]

The Senate isn't involved in a tie breaker - the House chooses the President if the Electoral College can't decide.

The Senate chooses the VP.

[ronpaulfollower999]

Wait, not the most accurate but....


If no candidate for the Vice President receives a majority of the Electoral Vote, the Senate will then chose the winner. Each senator has a single vote, and they can chose from the top TWO Electoral College vote-getters. A simple majority (51 of 100) is required to win in the Senate. Only Senators may vote (e.g. the current Vice President does not get to break ties) in this special case. As with the House, voting rounds continue until there is a winner.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_happens_if_no_candidate_receives_a_majority_o f_the_electoral_vote

Actual wording from the 12th Amendment:


The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

[acptulsa]

It can't be can it?

Because even if the republicans took the senate they wouldn't take over until next year.

That's the way I understand it. This would be among the last acts of the lame duck session.

[PauliticsPolitics]

http://i49.tinypic.com/2chvn6t.jpg

I believe this is the most plausible 269-269 scenario.
However, I think Romney getting Nevada is the weakest link.
But, it should be noted, this is about as likely as any other Romney victory scenario.

[sailingaway]

That's the way I understand it. This would be among the last acts of the lame duck session.

Is that how it works? Because I know the electoral college doesn't vote until really late in the year, if not next year.

[Pauls' Revere]

A Romney-Biden administration with Biden controlling the Senate? That would be fun.

Has this EVER happened before?

[liberty2897]

Chances of 269-269?

One can always hope while there is still possibility; never mind probability.

I know I make some pretty strange posts on here sometimes and this will not be an exception. The combination of hope and probability in your post made me think of quantum mechanics (even though my knowledge on the subject is very limited). If there ever was a time in my life that I felt like something "big" was about to happen, it has been the past couple of years. I think many people know this consciously or unconsciously just by the way they are conducting their business lately. I've expressed my thoughts on here before about everything being connected in ways that are hard to describe. I'm pretty sure there are many here in this forum that know what I'm talking about.

Who knows? Maybe Ron Paul could still be elected president this cycle? Maybe we are living within an echo in space-time that is just now propagating from the origins of our country.

I ran across this person today while browsing. Seems like somebody I would have loved to hang out with sometime. He passed away in 2007. Not sure why I'm sharing information about him, but it just seems appropriate to me for some reason

Quotes:

A true initiation never ends.

Most people live in a myth and grow violently angry if anyone dares to tell them the truth about themselves.

The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison,
the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.

The abandoned infant's cry is rage, not fear.

Of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

All phenomena are real in some sense, unreal in some sense, meaningless in some sense,
real and meaningless in some sense, unreal and meaningless in some sense,
and real and unreal and meaningless in some sense.

I have never experienced another human being. I have experienced my impressions of them.

You are precisely as big as what you love and precisely as small as what you allow to annoy you.


Robert Anton Wilson
Civil Libertarian
1932-2007

More Info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Anton_Wilson


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEl-fTtP2tw&feature=related

[Confederate]

Has this EVER happened before?

Until the 12th Amendment the loser of the Presidential election became VP. For example, in 1796 Adams, a Federalist, finished first and Thomas Jefferson, a Republican, finished second. Adams became POTUS and Jefferson VPOTUS.

[Confederate]

What's really interesting is that Joe Biden is the one who actually will count the Electoral College votes.


The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate.

The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.

[Confederate]

Obama isn't a candidate for VP, don't they have to choose amongst the electoral college candidates for VP? I'm not sure, to be honest, but I thought so.

For both only the top-two electoral vote getters are eligible to be voted on by the House and Senate.

[FrancisMarion]

For both only the top-two electoral vote getters are eligible to be voted on by the House and Senate.

President: not exceeding three. please re-read 12th.


The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate.

The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.

The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.[1]
The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.[2]

[Confederate]

President: not exceeding three. please re-read 12th.

Yes, you're right. I skimmed past the President part and went straight to the VP part.

For all practical purposes, though, there will only be 2 people eligible to be voted on by the House. Only Obama and Romney will have electoral college votes in the case of a tie.

[FrancisMarion]

Yes, you're right. I skimmed past the President part and went straight to the VP part.

For all practical purposes, though, there will only be 2 people eligible to be voted on by the House. Only Obama and Romney will have electoral college votes in the case of a tie.

Practical? We are discussing the possible! :D

267-267-4

[anaconda]

Isn't Ron Paul supposed to get about three of the electoral college votes? I heard there were something like three people that were going rogue and voting for him.

[malkusm]

Practical? We are discussing the possible! :D

267-267-4

But which one is the 4: Idaho? Hawaii? New Hampshire? Nebraska? Rhode Island?

[sailingaway]

But which one is the 4: Idaho? Hawaii? New Hampshire? Nebraska? Rhode Island?
faithless electors?

[JJ2]

Obama isn't a candidate for VP, don't they have to choose amongst the electoral college candidates for VP? I'm not sure, to be honest, but I thought so.

If there was a tie/no 270, and it was clear the House would choose Romney, then Obama's electors would most likely vote for Obama as VP and not President (or are they allowed to choose him for both?!), unless he told them he has no desire to be VP.

And you're correct that it is the new Congress that votes, not the lame duck.

[supermario21]

The best case would be to have a 269-269 tie and then a bunch of GOP faithless electors vote RP. In the grand scheme of things, the House would still pick Romney but it would be a nice, symbolic message.

[Kilrain]

The best case would be to have a 269-269 tie and then a bunch of GOP faithless electors vote RP. In the grand scheme of things, the House would still pick Romney but it would be a nice, symbolic message.

If a bunch of GOP electors jump ship, it would no longer be a tie. The tie in the electoral college has to occur before the house gets to vote.

You can still have a tie with faithless electors, but it would have to be 268-268-2, 267-267-4 and so on.

[american.swan]

There was an article in a major publication discussing this possibility.

What would really happened would be a major campaign to win over electoral college voters to swing one way or the other. They would not sit and do nothing until December 15? Then if the tie materialized the New US House and Senate would argue over who to vote for. If nothing works the house would elect Romney as President and the Senate would choose Biden as VP. Then we'd see how much power the VP really has. He'd dictate the Senate no matter what Romney wants.

It would be interesting.

[JJ2]

If a bunch of GOP electors jump ship, it would no longer be a tie. The tie in the electoral college has to occur before the house gets to vote.

You can still have a tie with faithless electors, but it would have to be 268-268-2, 267-267-4 and so on.

It doesn't have to be a tie in order to go to the House. As long as nobody gets 270, the House chooses the President.

[ronpaulfollower999]

Well if a couple faithless electors vote Ron Paul, then Ron's name would be up for vote in the house. :D

[ProBlue33]

Yeah the Congress votes Ron Paul for President and the Senate votes Rand Paul for VP, dream the dream :D

Or a Paul/Biden presidency that see's Obama go off and become the UN Secretary how is that for world changing events, nobody ever saw coming,

[jkob]

i would have to imagine if there was a tie that it would be the end of the electoral college

[anaconda]

Possible 3 electoral votes for RP:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/13/ron-paul-electoral-college_n_1880172.html

[Aratus]

its a close potus election
and we also have no clear
winner in the bay state senate
race between scott brown
and ms. elizabeth warren!

[John F Kennedy III]

I think the Senate would choose, hmm...that could be interesting haha

A Romney / Obama presidency?

Talk about nightmares lol

I just died :(

[John F Kennedy III]

Practical? We are discussing the possible! :D

267-267-4

Elected on 4 EC votes!

Cuz Ron Paul is a pimp like that :D

[Tpoints]

not gonna happen. Redskins already picked Romney.

Romney win means : death of Tea Party, militia movement, patriot movement goes back underground, more complaints about stolen election, more calls for direct democracy.

[anaconda]

Redskins already picked Romney.


I don't follow. Redskins?

[anaconda]

Romney win means : death of Tea Party, militia movement, patriot movement goes back underground,

Not necessarily. The increasing financial mess will cause Romney to be very unpopular with conservatives (as well as liberals). I think that a Romney presidency could just as easily enhance and congeal the patriot, militia, and "Tea Party" movements in a very non-partisan sort of way. With Obama, there's always the liberal charge of "racism" against the Tea Party, etc. A Romney presidency may, if nothing else, remove the stigma of "racism" from anti-government sentiment.

[nobody's_hero]

I imagine the Supreme Court would probably butt in again.

[Tpoints]

I don't follow. Redskins?

It's called the "Redskins rule", they were only wrong once until today. 2004 and 2012 were the only 2 times in 70 years.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-11-06/redskins-rule-vies-with-crimson-tide-s-win-as-election-year-omen

[Tpoints]

Not necessarily. The increasing financial mess will cause Romney to be very unpopular with conservatives (as well as liberals). I think that a Romney presidency could just as easily enhance and congeal the patriot, militia, and "Tea Party" movements in a very non-partisan sort of way. With Obama, there's always the liberal charge of "racism" against the Tea Party, etc. A Romney presidency may, if nothing else, remove the stigma of "racism" from anti-government sentiment.

Liberals will always call people who disagree with them racist, don't ever try to reason with that. But in any case, too bad we won't get to see that, and tea party, angry Republican losers, patriot militia movement, will continue to grow for the next 4 years.