zogby/alex jones poll is worthless

[chestertime]

RP loses the blind bio among likely republican voters (ie, he's trailing for the nomination). He wins the blind bio among all likely voters, unfortunately democrats (and in some states, independents) don't vote in primaries. And it provides absolutely zero insight on RP's national appeal as it included democrats and independents without including a democrat candidate. Flawed from the start. Next time Alex Jones wants to throw away a few thousand $$, tell him to send it my way.

[ronpaulfan]

Are you playing shill dressup?

[jd603]

I disagree, there were a number of other sections to the poll, zogby just picked the only one Ron lost in and spun it.

It's not worthless, or at least it's not any more worthless than any of the other polls out there.


RP loses the blind bio among likely republican voters (ie, he's trailing for the nomination). He wins the blind bio among all likely voters, unfortunately democrats (and in some states, independents) don't vote in primaries. And it provides absolutely zero insight on RP's national appeal as it included democrats and independents without including a democrat candidate. Flawed from the start. Next time Alex Jones wants to throw away a few thousand $$, tell him to send it my way.

[chestertime]

shill nothing. the second question (where RP wins) is of absolutely zero value. the first question (where he loses) is of value regarding popularity among potential primary voters. zogby didn't "play any dirty" tricks with his headline. the second question wasn't worth running in the first place let alone being the focus of a story afterward.

[ronpaulitician]

Agree with OP.

[ronpaulfan]

The Presidential election is NATIONWIDE. The poll proves without a doubt that the NATION as a whole prefers Ron Paul over the other Republicans. This thread title is something I would expect from shills. Watch how you post.

[FreedomLover]

The Presidential election is NATIONWIDE. The poll proves without a doubt that the NATION as a whole prefers Ron Paul over the other Republicans. This thread title is something I would expect from shills. Watch how you post.

Ron Paul is running in a Republican Primary, where the majority of people who vote are republicans.

You gotta go over the first hurdle before you get to the second.

[Duckman]

The Presidential election is NATIONWIDE. The poll proves without a doubt that the NATION as a whole prefers Ron Paul over the other Republicans. This thread title is something I would expect from shills. Watch how you post.

The poll proves that the nation as a whole would prefer Paul over the other Republican candidates if get the Paul message out there.

However, it is disingenuous because while the section of the poll that Paul wins is directed at "all likely voters," the only options given are for the Republican contenders. If the top Democratic contenders were included and Paul still won I would think this would have been a much bigger story.

[ronpaulfan]

Ron Paul is running in a Republican Primary, where the majority of people who vote are republicans.

You gotta go over the first hurdle before you get to the second.

That doesn't mean we bash the poll. It is a positive poll in Ron Paul's favor. Don't bash it just because it's not worthy of a Nobel Prize.

You can say how it could have been better, but anyone bashing this poll is a troll in my book.

[Micahyah]

100% agree with OP.

wish I had several thousand dollars to waste like that.

[dircha]

The poll proves that the nation as a whole would prefer Paul over the other Republican candidates if get the Paul message out there.

However, it is disingenuous because while the section of the poll that Paul wins is directed at "all likely voters," the only options given are for the Republican contenders. If the top Democratic contenders were included and Paul still won I would think this would have been a much bigger story.

And when Ron Paul is placed against Hillary in national polls, he, just like every other Republican, loses by a substantial margin.

Giuliani polls better in national polls against Hillary than Ron Paul does.

[ItsTime]

Shill thread of the year.

[Smiley Gladhands]

You can say how it could have been better, but anyone bashing this poll is a troll in my book.

It's all about consistency. If we can point out, and scream and whine about how unfair other polls are, then we have to be willing to admit when a poll whose results are apparently IN our favor is bogus.

As politically expedient as it may be to hoot and holler along with a lot of others about Zogby's neocon-ness...it remains inconsistent and disingenuous to do so.

Certain aspects of this poll represent a 'feel good' story for this forum. And some of you may feel that the 'feel good' story should be lauded far and wide. However, it's about as meaningful as giving Rosa Parks a big medal. Ron Paul stood strong against falling into the 'feel good' trap; I hope our own biases don't get in the way of seeing what's real and what's not.

[0zzy]

I want to see the full PDF.

[Pharoah]

Shilltastic thread!

[Sematary]

RP loses the blind bio among likely republican voters (ie, he's trailing for the nomination). He wins the blind bio among all likely voters, unfortunately democrats (and in some states, independents) don't vote in primaries. And it provides absolutely zero insight on RP's national appeal as it included democrats and independents without including a democrat candidate. Flawed from the start. Next time Alex Jones wants to throw away a few thousand $$, tell him to send it my way.

The thing is they asked the SAME people (Republicans now) that they ALWAYS ask. Did they ask any of US? No. It's a pointless and useless poll. How many of us were Republicans BEFORE and how many are NOW?

[dircha]

Shill thread of the year.

Reality has a well known anti-Ron Paul bias?

[paulitics]

You guys are a bunch of ingrates. Data, is data. Alot of politicians pay for this type of internal polling to have this data to analyze. I think its interesting to know that on some level, a large percentage of Americans prefer traditional conservative principals over the fascist imperialism we are headed towards. The stuff is not cheap, Alex Jones paid for it out of his own pocket, and all you guys do is criticise something that cost you nothing.

[0zzy]

You guys are a bunch of ingrates. Data, is data. Alot of politicians pay for this type of internal polling to have this data to analyze. I think its interesting to know that on some level, a large percentage of Americans prefer traditional conservative principals over the fascist imperialism we are headed towards. The stuff is not cheap, Alex Jones paid for it out of his own pocket, and all you guys do is criticise something that cost you nothing.

Amen.

[benhaskins]

why was that wastefull ?

[JTCoyoté]

And when Ron Paul is placed against Hillary in national polls, he, just like every other Republican, loses by a substantial margin.

Giuliani polls better in national polls against Hillary than Ron Paul does.

Your position is contrary to that of the Zogby annalist, Fritz Wenzel, who was on the Alex Jones' show today and concluded that Paul would likely beat Clinton given the results of the poll and the representitive number of democrats and independents going for Paul...

Also, the conservative sampling that gave Giuliani his "big" win was only a select 3/8ths of the total polled...

Your precious Rudy and Hillary... they will fall to Ron Paul!

--Oldyoti

"The moral and constitutional obligations of our representatives in Washington are to protect our liberty, not coddle the world, precipitating no-win wars, while bringing bankruptcy and economic turmoil to our people." ~Ron Paul

[Bradley in DC]

Let me be clear: I am very critical of this poll--the most "rigged" of any I've seen by Zogby:


At first blush, this would be the best example of a "rigged" poll.
The "blind" descriptions are uneven in bias (lobbyist, Democratic state, etc.), they did not say they rotate the order (a statistically significant number just pick the first person), the poll does not determine if voters are registered much less eligible to vote much less likely to vote....

That said, it is NOT worthless. All of these polls (scientific, straw, etc.) measure something different at a snapshot in time. The more pieces of the collage we have, the clearer the picture. The more time sequences we have, the better we can see the "moving picture" (now, if we could just add sound...:D).

Of course, the only "poll" that counts is the one with the results of the electoral college in December 2008 read and ratified by the House of Representative in January 2009, but that's another story.

[rodent]

RP loses the blind bio among likely republican voters (ie, he's trailing for the nomination). He wins the blind bio among all likely voters, unfortunately democrats (and in some states, independents) don't vote in primaries. And it provides absolutely zero insight on RP's national appeal as it included democrats and independents without including a democrat candidate. Flawed from the start. Next time Alex Jones wants to throw away a few thousand $$, tell him to send it my way.

Totally disagree. The poll has value in that it can show republicans that they can achieve a conservative agenda if they select Ron Paul. He has the most credibility across the spectrum. The poll reveals that the party-core is mostly dominated by extremists.

This poll is a tool to explain to other people why Paul is the only logical choice, AND it disproves/discredits all of the allegations of him being in bed with racists and white supremacists. It shows he has concrete support from people despite some of the mud that's been thrown at him. He dominates in every minority group out there.

[JTCoyoté]

Let me be clear: I am very critical of this poll--the most "rigged" of any I've seen by Zogby:


At first blush, this would be the best example of a "rigged" poll.
The "blind" descriptions are uneven in bias (lobbyist, Democratic state, etc.), they did not say they rotate the order (a statistically significant number just pick the first person), the poll does not determine if voters are registered much less eligible to vote much less likely to vote....

That said, it is NOT worthless. All of these polls (scientific, straw, etc.) measure something different at a snapshot in time. The more pieces of the collage we have, the clearer the picture. The more time sequences we have, the better we can see the "moving picture" (now, if we could just add sound...:D).

Of course, the only "poll" that counts is the one with the results of the electoral college in December 2008 read and ratified by the House of Representative in January 2009, but that's another story.

Your clarity as to the "Rigged" nature of the poll is based on erroneous assumptions and conclusions that begin at first blush...

The fact that the poll sample was indeed voters who are politically active, most with land phone lines, from parties that cover the political spectrum, some internet savvy some not, this was all broached during the interview. Thus, the terms lobbyist and democrat state or Southern state would not have been prejudicial across the board...

Much was explained by the annalist in the interview on Jones' show yesterday but it is well known that you don't like Alex and therefore were not listening to the hour long analysis of the poll. Thus, based on the incomplete nature of the material posted on Zogby, and your dislike for Mr. Jones... this makes your above analysis at the very least, unreliable.

Mr. Wensel admitted that much was done quickly and that the full analysis would be up later today for all to see... that might lighten your blush a bit...

Dr. Paul will be a guest on Alex's show today, the day before Thanksgiving, from his Texas home...

--Oldyoti

"The most important element of a free society, where individual rights are held in the highest esteem, is the rejection of the initiation of violence." ~Ron Paul

[saahmed]

I think the poll was worthless as well. The descriptions of the candidates just were not equal. The Paul description had a lot more to it.

[Pharoah]

^^ So you're saying that the more people heard about Ron Paul, the more they liked him - and somehow that's a bad thing?

[JTCoyoté]

I think the poll was worthless as well. The descriptions of the candidates just were not equal. The Paul description had a lot more to it.

Each candidate was given 5 points in their bio with closely related points shown together as one... All points would be considered as positive within their chosen demographic... there is no way that all 4 candidates could be shown as equal through all demographics... over half of the polled sample identified themselves as Republican and conservatives...

The poll is fair ... your assessment however, is based on your own prejudice most likely over a single issue.

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=15508.0

--Oldyoti

"The obligations of our representatives in Washington are to protect our liberty, not coddle the world, precipitating no-win wars, while bringing bankruptcy and economic turmoil to our people." ~Ron Paul