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Anti Federalist
11-01-2012, 02:11 PM
Hurricane Sandy: Gas shortage spawns long lines, fistfights, price gouging

Originally published: November 1, 2012 11:18 AM
Updated: November 1, 2012 3:44 PM

http://newyork.newsday.com/news/hurricane-sandy-gas-shortage-spawns-long-lines-fistfights-price-gouging-1.4176976?qr=1&qr=1&qr=1

Power outages caused by Hurricane Sandy coupled with consumer panic has led to a run on gasoline throughout the Hudson Valley, as motorists across the region hit the road frantically searching for gas stations that haven't run out.

Those that found them end up idling in long lines that in some cases stretch for a mile in either direction. There have been reports of price gouging in Rockland County and even violence at some gas stations between unruly customers.

A fistfight broke out Wednesday between customers at the Getty station on Route 59 in Monsey, and traffic stretched for at least half a mile on both sides of the road Thursday morning as customers rushed to the only functioning station in the area, said Chiam Tzik, the station's manager. He was directing long lines of traffic in a bright orange vest.

"These things bring out the best and worst in people," he said. "This is going to get ugly before it gets better."

Relief could be on the way, however, as the U.S. Coast Guard reopened the Port of New York and New Jersey Thursday afternoon in an effort to increase fuel deliveries after the hurricane strangled regional gas supplies. The port, which was closed ahead of the storm, received its first petroleum shipment at 7 a.m. and a second at noon, officials said.

For many waiting in line to fill up or get gas for their generators on Thursday, tensions ran high as station attendants turned into traffic cops.

Jessica Peters, of Montvale, N.J., had joined the line at the Getty station hoping to fill up her tank, and found people honking their horns and gesturing with their hands as harried store workers tried to get motorists to form an orderly line down the street.

"This is crazy," said the 35-year-old secretary, who said she was running on empty after spending the morning looking for an open station. "I've never seen anything like this. People are acting like animals."

Utilities reported 355,509 Hudson Valley customers still without power Thursday morning, down from about a half million immediately after Monday's storm.

Down the street, a Super Value ran out of gas Wednesday, and despite having power, they haven't been able get more from their regional distributor.

"It's not the power, we're having delivery problems," said Alex Ereifj, a 25-year-old store clerk. "People have been coming from New Jersey looking for gas. I don't know what to tell them."

In a crisis -- especially among a population not used to a hurricane's full force -- customers tend to stock up more on gas, which pressures existing supplies, analysts say. And when power outages disable retailers, supplies get strained quickly. Even stations that have received fresh supplies quickly found themselves running on empty.

"It's extremely typical," said Gregg Laskoski, a senior petroleum analyst at Gas Buddy. "We see this virtually every time there's a major storm or a hurricane."

Ron Levine, a spokesman for Rockland County Executive C. Scott Vanderhoef, said the county has been getting reports from consumers about price gouging by unscrupulous gas station owners jacking up prices as high as $5 a gallon in some places.

He said the county's consumer protection bureau is investigating numerous claims of overpricing.

"We will not tolerate it, especially in times of crisis when people are in need," Levine said. "It's unacceptable."

A gasoline supply at the Mobil station in Goshen that arrived Thursday morning was on the verge of running out by early afternoon, said Sam Saleh, the manager of the Greenwich Avenue station. With at least 20 cars waiting in line -- along with scores of customers clutching containers -- Saleh called his Newburgh distributor looking for a refill, only to be told that there's no supply available for Thursday night, and Friday's chances are far from certain.

Still, he's managed to keep the same prices -- $3.99 for a regular gallon -- steady since Sunday, despite frantic demand.

"(The customers) are all frustrated," he said. "They're angry, and they're worried about when they're going to get gas."

Meanwhile, across the street, a Gulf station has been out of gas since Sunday, and the Linden, N.J.-based supplier told station manager Faiz Isa that gasoline might not be available until Thanksgiving.

At the 76 gas station in Yonkers, located at the corner of Kimball and McLean avenues, customers waited as long as 40 minutes Thursday, only to learn shortly after 10 a.m. that the station had run out of gas.

Many of the drivers had already visited four or five gas stations in the area, and waited in line after they discovered 76 still had electricity, News12 reported.

Back in Monsey, across the street from the Super Value, the Shell station had handwritten signs on the pumps: "Sorry, no gas."

Eric Dengan, of Monsey, pulled up to the Shell station in a pickup truck filled with small gas canisters. He needed gas for his home generator.

"Nothing?" he asked the harried-looking clerk behind the counter, who shook his head.

He got back in his truck and screeched the tires as he drove away.

Acala
11-01-2012, 02:14 PM
Solution to long lines = raise prices until the lines are not long anymore. But that's illegal.

kahless
11-01-2012, 02:20 PM
I live there and have a couple posts in this forum about the lines. It was no better today, more and longer gas lines.





Gas: Seeing unusual lines at all the gas stations in North Rockland with the two gas stations near me that do not normally close have now closed.

Ice to keep Perishables: Thousands showed up at the local baseball stadium for dry ice yesterday [30th] between 1-5 but it sold out in 15 minutes. People waited in long lines to get there only to get turned away.

Today [31st] they gave out a 2 bag limit per car of regular ice. I am guessing from the endless long lines of cars when I was there I would say thousands showed up again. About a 45 minute wait in traffic.


Food: [31st] The grocery stores had no backup power so the fairly large Shop Rite has no non-perishable food since it was all thrown out. Very odd seeing the deli, fish, meat and frozen food section coolers empty (half the store). The other Stop and Shop had power but the deli was completely sold out. Never saw that before. I asked about the next shipment of ice and was told their distribution center lost power so they do not know when they are getting new deliveries.

Danke
11-01-2012, 02:20 PM
Solution to long lines = raise prices until the lines are not long anymore. But that's illegal.

In Minnesota they shut down a station for selling gas under cost.

phill4paul
11-01-2012, 02:22 PM
Oh yeah. I can imagine. Counting on it. So many federal resources are gonna be spent on the big cities that perhaps those of us in the country might have some time to "change some hearts and minds" before the Eye of Sauron turns on us.

AuH20
11-01-2012, 02:30 PM
So far this is what I hear:

- on the South Shore of LI, there were a few incidents where thieves in out-of-state vehicles stole valuables families had rescued from their flooded homes.
- Thieves on Long Island and in the Rockaways are donning LIPA (Long Island Power Authority) uniforms and gaining access to homes.
- the flooded 60th precinct in Brooklyn was resupplied with NYPD officers to take back select parts of Coney Island shopping centers, which are currently being looted

kahless
11-01-2012, 05:39 PM
New Yorkers Resorting to Dumpster Diving for food
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/video/#!/on-air/as-seen-on/Sandy-Starved-New-Yorkers-Dumpster-Dive/176839571

VoluntaryAmerican
11-01-2012, 06:20 PM
New Yorkers Resorting to Dumpster Diving for food
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/video/#!/on-air/as-seen-on/Sandy-Starved-New-Yorkers-Dumpster-Dive/176839571

Don't be in a city when the SHTF. More proof right there.

HOLLYWOOD
11-01-2012, 06:35 PM
.GOV is loving this scenario... We Control, We Help, We Save You! They'll always have a dozen excuses for each failure and demand even more of your money and time to save you in the future.

Governments can make people do anything, in any situation, under any circumstance or condition... right up to you giving them the keys to your Freedom, Liberty, & Life.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4uvLXCUhVg

JK/SEA
11-01-2012, 06:37 PM
hmmm...time to increase the Military budget and start a war with Iran.

Pericles
11-01-2012, 08:18 PM
Oh yeah. I can imagine. Counting on it. So many federal resources are gonna be spent on the big cities that perhaps those of us in the country might have some time to "change some hearts and minds" before the Eye of Sauron turns on us.

Looking at the country as red state / blue state gives a false picture - look at the red / blue vote on the county level:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/countymapredbluer512.png

Mani
11-02-2012, 12:00 AM
Welcome to my world....Or at least my old world....We experienced this 1-4 times a year in South Florida during hurricane season.

And wouldnt you know it, Murphy's law, when I FINALLY bit the bullet and bought a generator, we never got hit again. Thing was still in its original box.

I did stock up a few times on gas and supplies after I bought it, but they all turned into false alarms. I'm glad I settled on just getting a smaller one and didn't go crazy and buy a ginormous one.

After a few hurricanes...you stock up and get used to it...I never waited for line for anything...Not ice, not gas, not food, not plywood...OMG, the home depots would have 6 hour lines to buy plywood for the windows....people would spend the whole day in line for plywood and barely enough time to put it up....Yuck...I never did any of that stuff....

Usually those storms are a week out....I'd plan a week or at least 2-3 days ahead....the Panic was always the day before...even Sandy they talked about for days.....ah well, i guess those NYorkers aren't used to that stuff....however they could have called for advice from all their family and Friends in Miami (since a third of South Florida is NY transplants.).

But to the OP's point...Ya, it gets real ugly...Real Ugly fast....The night before a big one....the grocery isles are stocked out of bread, water...certain food isles are barren...It's eerie...Like an Armageddon eerie feeling...Imagine walking into the grocery store you've been walking into for the past 10 years or whatever...and one day you walk in and the place is empty of people and shelves are barren...it's just weird.

fisharmor
11-02-2012, 06:26 AM
Now everyone just hang on a second.

-Isolated reports of robberies
-Isolated reports of traffic backing up for miles
-Isolated reports of fistfights in public
-Isolated reports of people dumpster diving

Ladies and gentlemen, I humbly submit that conditions in New York and New Jersey are currently much more civilized than they are normally.

kahless
11-02-2012, 09:40 AM
I never waited for line for anything...Not ice, not gas, not food, not plywood...

I never expected to be waiting in lines for ice. I filled the frig with ice before the storm and stocked up on non-perishables and canned food. I thought I would be good for a week and eat up the perishables first.

Did not expect the ice in the frig to melt as fast as it did and ended up waiting in the ice lines to keep the frig cold anyway. It did not matter I had to still throw stuff out. Lesson learned, maybe move stuff to beer coolers with ice next time instead of the frig. The lines were not worth it anyway since I used more in gas in the ice lines then the value of re-buying the food that went bad.

kathy88
11-02-2012, 09:54 AM
Now everyone just hang on a second.

-Isolated reports of robberies
-Isolated reports of traffic backing up for miles
-Isolated reports of fistfights in public
-Isolated reports of people dumpster diving

Ladies and gentlemen, I humbly submit that conditions in New York and New Jersey are currently much more civilized than they are normally.thats just not funny.

Pericles
11-02-2012, 03:29 PM
thats just not funny.

I LOLed

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
11-02-2012, 04:06 PM
Solution to long lines = raise prices until the lines are not long anymore. But that's illegal.

Yeah, and free market advocates need to stop using the term "price gouging." Rising prices increases the supply of goods to the local market, bringing prices down. If you are not allowed to raise prices, nobody's willing to meet the excess demand at a loss. Instead, you get lines and shortages.

What I said above is very basic economics. (one of many cases where there is no disagreement among "mainstream" or "austrian" economists - which leads to my aggravation when people decide they need to be one over the other in any discussion of economics.)

LibForestPaul
11-02-2012, 04:10 PM
What is scary is how quickly the entire island of Long Island was shutdown when they barred traffic on the bridges. no way in, no way out.

Mani
11-05-2012, 07:58 AM
At least down here, the next few meals were all BBQ coz no matter what, the food is going to spoil, the ice never lasts, so might as well start grilling....



I never expected to be waiting in lines for ice. I filled the frig with ice before the storm and stocked up on non-perishables and canned food. I thought I would be good for a week and eat up the perishables first.

Did not expect the ice in the frig to melt as fast as it did and ended up waiting in the ice lines to keep the frig cold anyway. It did not matter I had to still throw stuff out. Lesson learned, maybe move stuff to beer coolers with ice next time instead of the frig. The lines were not worth it anyway since I used more in gas in the ice lines then the value of re-buying the food that went bad.

VBRonPaulFan
11-05-2012, 10:02 AM
I never expected to be waiting in lines for ice. I filled the frig with ice before the storm and stocked up on non-perishables and canned food. I thought I would be good for a week and eat up the perishables first.

Did not expect the ice in the frig to melt as fast as it did and ended up waiting in the ice lines to keep the frig cold anyway. It did not matter I had to still throw stuff out. Lesson learned, maybe move stuff to beer coolers with ice next time instead of the frig. The lines were not worth it anyway since I used more in gas in the ice lines then the value of re-buying the food that went bad.

beer coolers are less efficient than refrigerators at keeping stuff cool, i know this from experience. the best bet would be to get a small deep freezer and stock it with as much ice as you can - but you'll still probably only get a couple of days out of it unless you can periodically get power to it to run it.