How far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go?

[Sematary]

We MUST get Ron Paul the nomination because the alternative is a future of living under a tyrannical government. If we don't get that nomination, or, if something were "to happen" to Dr. Paul or, if, George Bush or even the next president were to declare martial law - how far are you willing to go? How committed are you to the cause of liberty? I am asking myself this now - it's a difficult question. It involves family, friends, responsibilities. The question, itself, scares the living shit out of me because I'm not sure I want to know the answer.

[Original_Intent]

Sematary I know you are "with us" you have proven yourself many times over, but this is the type of question an agent provacatuer would ask, and if the scenario you just outlined ever happened, answering this post could bring a unexpected visit to your house in the middle of the night.

A small amount of paranoia in the current unconstitutional environment is a survival instinct.

[genrlfuzzywuzzy]

why o why didn't I take the BLUE pill!

This sounds like a call to arms. If it gets as bad as you mentioned (and I believe it might) the cause of liberty would grow by leaps and bounds I believe. No one really cares if Pakistan is under martial law, but that country is going insane they are so mad at Musharraf.

Something really big (more than 911) would have to go down in America before Americans completely lay down their rights to government.

[pcosmar]

I will bow down and lick the boots of the oppressors.
I wiil calmly go to the camps without a fuss.
I will not resist.:rolleyes:

Because, posting the truth could be used against me. :mad:

[Primbs]

The people are fighting back. This is the biggest liberty campaign in forty years.

[PatriotG]

I will bow down and lick the boots of the oppressors.
I wiil calmly go to the camps without a fuss.
I will not resist.:rolleyes:

Because, posting the truth could be used against me. :mad:



DITTO!

[Sematary]

Sematary I know you are "with us" you have proven yourself many times over, but this is the type of question an agent provacatuer would ask, and if the scenario you just outlined ever happened, answering this post could bring a unexpected visit to your house in the middle of the night.

A small amount of paranoia in the current unconstitutional environment is a survival instinct.

I'm expecting that visit if Ron Paul doesn't become our president. :(

[Sematary]

The people are fighting back. This is the biggest liberty campaign in forty years.

But, will it be enough?
I am already jotting down my thoughts and ideas and beliefs and yes, even my fears, and disseminating them - in case I am ever disappeared.

[Kapt Nemo]

We MUST get Ron Paul the nomination because the alternative is a future of living under a tyrannical government. If we don't get that nomination, or, if something were "to happen" to Dr. Paul or, if, George Bush or even the next president were to declare martial law - how far are you willing to go? How committed are you to the cause of liberty? I am asking myself this now - it's a difficult question. It involves family, friends, responsibilities. The question, itself, scares the living shit out of me because I'm not sure I want to know the answer.



To tell you the truth the minute I enlisted and signed my paperwork (Jan23,2001) all I did was pray that I could make it 6 years with out any stupidity happening... obviously that worked out really well. Personally I believe that the Declaration of Independence give us our responsibilities as citizens of this free nation...


That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.



I think this is pretty clear...

Even though I'm hopeful that Dr Paul get nominated and brings about a peaceful change to our government, I think that History has proven that whenever we get someone that wants to truly help the American people... the black suits like to make them disappear... And I think the people need to prepare themselves (not to sound too off the fringe ;) )

[ConstitutionGal]

It's already a LOT worse than most people realize. Just by bucking the current system you can get your telephones tapped (ask me how I know), websites removed from search engines, mail opened and tons more stuff that I haven't been personally involved with. I've actually been advised by those 'inside' a certain agency to not leave home by myself at night!! It's BEEN scary and it's FAST getting MUCH worse. I would actually guess that many on these forums have their names on some 'watch list' and will be among some of the first to become 'un-persons' should the slide into a totalitarian police-state continue at its current pace.

[Sematary]

It's already a LOT worse than most people realize. Just by bucking the current system you can get your telephones tapped (ask me how I know), websites removed from search engines, mail opened and tons more stuff that I haven't been personally involved with. I've actually been advised by those 'inside' a certain agency to not leave home by myself at night!! It's BEEN scary and it's FAST getting MUCH worse. I would actually guess that many on these forums have their names on some 'watch list' and will be among some of the first to become 'un-persons' should the slide into a totalitarian police-state continue at its current pace.

That is my greatest fear but I am undeterred in my current course of action but the point of my post is not only to question others, but to question myself, on how much I am willing to endure.

[Sematary]

Sematary I know you are "with us" you have proven yourself many times over, but this is the type of question an agent provacatuer would ask, and if the scenario you just outlined ever happened, answering this post could bring a unexpected visit to your house in the middle of the night.

A small amount of paranoia in the current unconstitutional environment is a survival instinct.

Who would have ever thought, looking at the young man I was 30 years ago - sloughing through school, getting stoned constantly and not caring about anything or anyone, I would have become the citizen that I am today? Not I, I can assure you.

[ConstitutionGal]

That is my greatest fear but I am undeterred in my current course of action but the point of my post is not only to question others, but to question myself, on how much I am willing to endure.

Frankly, I've just about had it with what I'm willing to endure! I want my country back and unless Dr. Paul can get elected, it's not going to be pretty. We sat back on our laurels and watched TV while Randy and Vicki Weaver were being terrorized and killed. We sat back and watched on TV as OUR government incinerated women and children in Waco. We've sat back and watched TV as law-abiding citizens were arrested or killed by an out of control militarized police and we've finally had enough and are putting our boots on the ground in support of the only candidate that will actually work to change things. I think the wool is finally coming off of the people's eyes and there won't be any going back. People tend to forget exactly WHY the founders included amendment # 2 in the BOR but they just may have to remember soon if things continue on their present course.

If there be war let it be in my day that my children may live in peace..

[Sematary]

Frankly, I've just about had it with what I'm willing to endure! I want my country back and unless Dr. Paul can get elected, it's not going to be pretty. We sat back on our laurels and watched TV while Randy and Vicki Weaver were being terrorized and killed. We sat back and watched on TV as OUR government incinerated women and children in Waco. We've sat back and watched TV as law-abiding citizens were arrested or killed by an out of control militarized police and we've finally had enough and are putting our boots on the ground in support of the only candidate that will actually work to change things. I think the wool is finally coming off of the people's eyes and there won't be any going back. People tend to forget exactly WHY the founders included amendment # 2 in the BOR but they just may have to remember soon if things continue on their present course.

If there be war let it be in my day that my children may live in peace..

I was just wondering
Does your husband/significant other, share your views? My wife is a wonderful woman but cringes any time I even broach this type of thinking, so I try not to mention it and I fear that at some unknown point in my future it may be the end of my marriage. Do you have to face that? How do you deal with it?

[Sematary]

Frankly, I've just about had it with what I'm willing to endure! I want my country back and unless Dr. Paul can get elected, it's not going to be pretty. We sat back on our laurels and watched TV while Randy and Vicki Weaver were being terrorized and killed. We sat back and watched on TV as OUR government incinerated women and children in Waco. We've sat back and watched TV as law-abiding citizens were arrested or killed by an out of control militarized police and we've finally had enough and are putting our boots on the ground in support of the only candidate that will actually work to change things. I think the wool is finally coming off of the people's eyes and there won't be any going back. People tend to forget exactly WHY the founders included amendment # 2 in the BOR but they just may have to remember soon if things continue on their present course.

If there be war let it be in my day that my children may live in peace..

That wasn't quite what I meant by "endure" by the way. I was actually speaking of the personal losses that could result from being involved in activities which could some day land me in prison - like speaking the truth. If we end up in a tyranny then those who are at the forefront will be rounded up first. Then there are the rest of us - those who have been outspoken and public in our protestations of our government and it's unconstitutional policies. I have no doubt at all that I am on a "list" somewhere and that at some future time, that list could be activated and my freedom endangered (I'm talking about physical freedom now - as in prison). I don't want to put my family in the same position that I may someday find myself. So, what I meant, is how much personal anguish am I willing to suffer? I"m not afraid of being imprisoned for exercising my right to free speech. I am more worried about how my exercise of that right could ultimately affect my family.

[ConstitutionGal]

I was just wondering
Does your husband/significant other, share your views? My wife is a wonderful woman but cringes any time I even broach this type of thinking, so I try not to mention it and I fear that at some unknown point in my future it may be the end of my marriage. Do you have to face that? How do you deal with it?

My husband is 100% supportive so, thankfully, I don't have any conflicts at home about my 'views' :D although I'm probably more outspoken than is he. I'm probably also the more prone of the two of us to resort to 'alternative' means should the need arise. He's a pretty easy-going southern gentleman while my Cherokee ancestory seems to come out a bit more. Also, being southern, there's something of a history in my family of being sort of 'anti-government'. (one of my grandfathers was a bootlegger :eek:

[Kapt Nemo]

Who would have ever thought, looking at the young man I was 30 years ago - sloughing through school, getting stoned constantly and not caring about anything or anyone, I would have become the citizen that I am today? Not I, I can assure you.



I can't look back 30 years but I can say that looking back almost 10 years on the same vision, I would have never thought I'd feel the way I do... When I took my oath at graduation form basic training I meant it more than probably anything else I've said in my life... and I think about it more now and mean it twice as much now... Looking back to when I was in high school I honestly don't know who I was then.. but I like who I've become...


Viva la R3volution!


-Nemo



*EDIT*





If there be war let it be in my day that my children may live in peace..

I got the shivers and goose bumps when I read that!!!!

[sparebulb]

It seems to me that if RP does not win the nomination, he MUST go back on his word and run as an independent. Even if that results in a Billery win.

At the risk of bringing up old news, I think that it would be interesting if Ross Perot would come out and tell us his version of what the globalists will do to influence the outcome of an election. Unless he is now a globalist.

[ConstitutionGal]

That wasn't quite what I meant by "endure" by the way. I was actually speaking of the personal losses that could result from being involved in activities which could some day land me in prison - like speaking the truth. If we end up in a tyranny then those who are at the forefront will be rounded up first. Then there are the rest of us - those who have been outspoken and public in our protestations of our government and it's unconstitutional policies. I have no doubt at all that I am on a "list" somewhere and that at some future time, that list could be activated and my freedom endangered (I'm talking about physical freedom now - as in prison). I don't want to put my family in the same position that I may someday find myself. So, what I meant, is how much personal anguish am I willing to suffer? I"m not afraid of being imprisoned for exercising my right to free speech. I am more worried about how my exercise of that right could ultimately affect my family.

I go under the premise that should my death be required to guarantee the freedom of my children, then it will be a sacrifice gladly made on my part. I don't think being slapped in a prison or gulag due to my stated views or speech will be acceptable at all. There simply comes a time when enough is enough and while being concerned about the future and sustenance of our families is a valid concern, it can't be our only criteria for such a decision. This is just one reason why I support Dr. Paul - I am unwilling to see others sacrificed fighting a war that I would not myself be willing to fight. To DEFEND my country against ALL enemies, both foreign and domestic, is a war that I AM willing to untake should it become necessary because I'm not willing to sit back when they start filling up cattle-cars to transport people to the FEMA camps. That probably makes me some sort of radical but, considering the Founding Fathers attitudes, I'd have to say it puts me in pretty darned good company.

[tmg19103]

I don't think the government elite wants to haul us away or even create a martial law as they know that would cause chaos. They need us as complient worker bees so they can pad their pockets.

I think their goal is to control us in a manner that most European countries are controlled. No weapons held by the citizenry, sky high taxes, 25% of citizens working for the government so they are truly reliant on the government - which all leads to more corruption and oppression, but in a manner where the sheep are tricked into thinking this is what is best for them.

That is the scenario I see and that is the one I want to avoid. If the ruling government elite plays it smart they will not get enough Americans to revolt and then they slowly squeeze us. If it gets much worse, I would consider leaving this once great country for a yet to be determined land where I could heopfully live as a free and independent person who is not oppressed by the government.

[ConstitutionGal]

It seems to me that if RP does not win the nomination, he MUST go back on his word and run as an independent. Even if that results in a Billery win.

At the risk of bringing up old news, I think that it would be interesting if Ross Perot would come out and tell us his version of what the globalists will do to influence the outcome of an election. Unless he is now a globalist.

I think if many of us had known just how cozy Perot was with the Clintons, we would not have supported him at all. Of course, this didn't come out until much later and, thanks to the popularity of the Internet, I doubt that something like that would be able to stay buried for very long now.

[ConstitutionGal]

I don't think the government elite wants to haul us away or even create a martial law as they know that would cause chaos. They need us as complient worker bees so they can pad their pockets.

I think their goal is to control us in a manner that most European countries are controlled. No weapons held by the citizenry, sky high taxes, 25% of citizens working for the government so they are truly reliant on the government - which all leads to more corruption and oppression, but in a manner where the sheep are tricked into thinking this is what is best for them.

That is the scenario I see and that is the one I want to avoid. If the ruling government elite plays it smart they will not get enough Americans to revolt and then they slowly squeeze us. If it gets much worse, I would consider leaving this once great country for a yet to be determined land where I could heopfully live as a free and independent person who is not oppressed by the government.

What you say is partially true. They would prefer that we remain compliant worker bees but, I think the scales are tipping in our favor for the first time in a LONG time. Once people actually start thinking, they start questioning. Once they begin to question, they began to demand answers and change. Once the PTB see that real change is being demanded, they will start to tighten their grip and THAT, my friends, is when all hell is going to break loose.

[Sematary]

I don't think the government elite wants to haul us away or even create a martial law as they know that would cause chaos. They need us as complient worker bees so they can pad their pockets.

I think their goal is to control us in a manner that most European countries are controlled. No weapons held by the citizenry, sky high taxes, 25% of citizens working for the government so they are truly reliant on the government - which all leads to more corruption and oppression, but in a manner where the sheep are tricked into thinking this is what is best for them.

That is the scenario I see and that is the one I want to avoid. If the ruling government elite plays it smart they will not get enough Americans to revolt and then they slowly squeeze us. If it gets much worse, I would consider leaving this once great country for a yet to be determined land where I could heopfully live as a free and independent person who is not oppressed by the government.

In order to maintain that "peace" as you describe, it would require, at the very least, imprisoning (probably for life) anyone who dissented and you've go to admit - that would involve EVERYONE who supports Ron Paul either with their voice or their wallet.

[Sematary]

What you say is partially true. They would prefer that we remain compliant worker bees but, I think the scales are tipping in our favor for the first time in a LONG time. Once people actually start thinking, they start questioning. Once they begin to question, they began to demand answers and change. Once the PTB see that real change is being demanded, they will start to tighten their grip and THAT, my friends, is when all hell is going to break loose.

Yep - next year is going to be very interesting if Dr. Paul looks even remotely like he's going to win the nomination. I'm an atheist - so this is going to sound weird but I think you'll know what I mean - I pray for him.

[Indy Vidual]

How far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go?

I don't support violence.

http://www.1life1time.com/images/aliceSurroundedByCharacters.jpg

[ConstitutionGal]

Yep - next year is going to be very interesting if Dr. Paul looks even remotely like he's going to win the nomination. I'm an atheist - so this is going to sound weird but I think you'll know what I mean - I pray for him.

I know EXACTLY what you mean (an I'm a non-denominational Christian). THIS man, THIS message and THIS time-period are set to go down in history as a perfect storm, IMHO, and I'm hoping that the PTB trying to stop or avert it are entirely futile as I'm don't like the remaining options.

[pcosmar]

I am neither sheep nor rabbit. I am fine when left alone.

http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/blog/images/wolverine.jpg

Don't mess in my woods.

[Kapt Nemo]

How far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go?

I don't support violence.

http://www.1life1time.com/images/aliceSurroundedByCharacters.jpg



There's a difference from supporting violence and standing up for your rights as an American, and as a free citizen of this world. and when you come down to it, eventually somewhere down the line you will be challenged in a way where you have no other course of action but to fight... And I hope that you do...

[pcosmar]

How far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go?

I don't support violence.

http://www.1life1time.com/images/aliceSurroundedByCharacters.jpg

Neither did these.
http://www.nobleednews.com/Holocaust.jpg

http://texasvc.weblogswork.com/wp-content/images/holocaust%201.jpg

[mordechai]

Well, you must remember about Europe, it is nearing a collapse as well. Bringing the Euro into the picture, and using East European workers and manufacturing only props up West Europe. And, as I have told many a liberal who idolizes the Europeans, they don't have a 1st Amendment. The government's definition of racism, and xenophobia. And the government's definition of treason are what is used, not a jury of peers. We would be bound for prison.

The real question is how to avoid the gulag, the gas chamber, the point where your being dragged to a mass grave.

Somewhere between about where we're at now, and the above mentioned, you get a final chance to resist. A crossroads. If you don't take up arms, you die. But, once you take up arms there is no going back.

Seems to be the sentiment, or atleast the question behind rabbit hole.

My answer is still being formulated.

[pcosmar]

mordechai
It is in your signature, If we can wake up enough people, this can happen peacefully.
I am a peaceful man, but I am no pacifist.
I pray for peace .

Ps 144:1 Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:

[ShowMeLiberty]

I am a peaceful man, but I am no pacifist.
I pray for peace .

I like that. It describes Dr. Paul quite well too.

As for how far down the rabbitt hole I'm willing to go.... I think it's a little too late to be asking the question. We're already there. The next move is "theirs".