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tod evans
10-29-2012, 02:39 PM
I suppose he's lucky the cops didn't shoot him..



California boy, 12, arrested after killing dog

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/29/california-boy-12-arrested-after-killing-dog/?test=latestnews


SALINAS, Calif. – A 12-year-old California boy says he killed his dog because he wanted to see the terrier mix die.
The Salinas Californian says police officers found the 12-pound dog hanging by its collar on a bedroom door handle.
Investigators say the boy told officers he was mad at the dog and he wanted to see it die.
Dispatchers got a 911 emergency call Friday afternoon from a female caller saying the boy was hurting the dog. People in the boy's apartment refused to open the door when Salinas officers arrived, so they obtained a pass key.
The boy was arrested and taken to Monterey County Juvenile Hall for investigation of felony animal cruelty.

CaptUSA
10-29-2012, 02:41 PM
Stupid kid. Should have gottten a badge first.

Chester Copperpot
10-29-2012, 02:41 PM
That kid better get some help before he turns into jeffrey dahmer

CaptUSA
10-29-2012, 02:44 PM
That kid better get some help before he turns into jeffrey dahmeror even worse, a police officer.

tod evans
10-29-2012, 02:45 PM
That kid better get some help before he turns into jeffrey dahmer

Oh I'm sure Officer Friendly helped the shit out of him.........

presence
10-29-2012, 02:47 PM
Let me go out on a limb... I know the peta people are gonna hate on me, but:

So do I not still have a right to go out in my back yard and shoot my dog? This was his dog right? Have the rules flipped or something? Its ok for the cops to terminate your dog will; they get paid leave (practically a bonus), but if you think it must be done you're aressted as a felon? WTF?

presence
10-29-2012, 02:47 PM
Stupid kid. Should have gottten a badge first.

There it is, came up while I was postin'

Quote of the Day folks. +rep

TheGrinch
10-29-2012, 02:50 PM
Let me go out on a limb... I know the pita people are gonna hate on me, but:

So do I not still have a right to go out in my back yard and shoot my dog? This was his dog right? Have the rules flipped or something? Its ok for the cops to terminate your dog will; they get paid leave (practically a bonus), but if you think it must be done you're aressted as a felon? WTF?

You're really going to score some emotional appeal points defending the 12-year old psychopath that killed a perfectly healthy dog to watch it die. :rolleyes:

Chester Copperpot
10-29-2012, 02:52 PM
Let me go out on a limb... I know the pita people are gonna hate on me, but:

So do I not still have a right to go out in my back yard and shoot my dog? This was his dog right? Have the rules flipped or something? Its ok for the cops to terminate your dog will; they get paid leave (practically a bonus), but if you think it must be done you're aressted as a felon? WTF?

If theres a reason to kill your dog then fine.. If hes sick or in pain or you want to see his suffering end.. then sure go kill your dog..

But just to kill ones dog because "I want to see him die" isnt a good enough reason... and IMO the right of property here is trumped by the dog's right to life..

Yes I know animals dont have rights.. But in this case, the 12 year old simply doesnt have the responsibilty to own a pet, so the pet should be taken away... If his parents had any brains they'd do something

presence
10-29-2012, 02:55 PM
You're really going to score some emotional appeal points defending the 12-year old psychopath that killed a perfectly healthy dog to watch it die. :rolleyes:

Maybe the dog was aggressive beyond his ability to control; liability and he was tasked with caring for it before he was ready. 1) He's a kid. 2) Its his dog; responsibility. 3) He didn't confess to wanting to torture it, he said he wanted to kill it and he did. Is that not your right as a pet owner to terminate your pet? I know I can terminate my cows when I choose to. And I can do that if I don't like their color let alone their temperment.

Mind you I'm playing liberty's devil here. I don't like the sound of it either. But just sayin'

AFPVet
10-29-2012, 02:59 PM
...A 12-year-old California boy says he killed his dog because he wanted to see the terrier mix die.

Holy &*(^& ... watch this kid. I learned from criminology that kids who do this kind of thing end up graduating to the big leagues (homicide) when they become adults.

Indy Vidual
10-29-2012, 03:03 PM
The Army will give him a rewarding career.

heavenlyboy34
10-29-2012, 03:16 PM
Ugh. I don't think this was the right thing to do, but it's also a bad idea to get the cops involved. It's kind of a grey area for me. It's good to want to protect animals, but how do you decide which ones to protect? Just the mammalians? What about mosquitos, ants, and all the other critters kill all the time? (some of which are sometimes kept as pets, like snakes and ants) I would like to watch this thread and get info/evidence from all sides before coming to a final conclusion.

fisharmor
10-29-2012, 03:17 PM
You're really going to score some emotional appeal points defending the 12-year old psychopath that killed a perfectly healthy dog to watch it die. :rolleyes:

Well, defending an action on principle hasn't had its own logical fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion)for the last 2300 years.

Brian4Liberty
10-29-2012, 03:23 PM
You're really going to score some emotional appeal points defending the 12-year old psychopath that killed a perfectly healthy dog to watch it die. :rolleyes:

Johnny Cash was a little weird too...


When I was just a baby,
My Mama told me, "Son,
Always be a good boy,
Don't ever play with guns,"
But I shot a man in Reno,
Just to watch him die,
When I hear that whistle blowin',
I hang my head and cry.

Brian4Liberty
10-29-2012, 03:27 PM
That kid better get some help before he turns into jeffrey dahmer

Or Dexter...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Dexter_Morgan.jpg

Anti Federalist
10-29-2012, 03:36 PM
Johnny Cash was a little weird too...

That was the first thing that came to mind for me also.

tod evans
10-29-2012, 03:38 PM
Ugh. I don't think this was the right thing to do, but it's also a bad idea to get the cops involved. It's kind of a grey area for me. It's good to want to protect animals, but how do you decide which ones to protect? Just the mammalians? What about mosquitos, ants, and all the other critters kill all the time? (some of which are sometimes kept as pets, like snakes and ants) I would like to watch this thread and get info/evidence from all sides before coming to a final conclusion.

This is an issue between the kid and his parents.

TheGrinch
10-29-2012, 03:43 PM
Well, defending an action on principle hasn't had its own logical fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion)for the last 2300 years.

I am well aware of the illegitimacy of pathos emotional appeals, just sayin you're not gonna draw a tear over some future serial killer being dealt with for wanting to watch an animal die.

I see his point though, of where you draw the line, but I'd say that this is on the other side of the line of the freedoms we should be defending. I don't think the 12-year-old kid should be arrested. It sounds like he needs to be in a mental institution where he'll probably end up, because he's obvioulsy got problems. I can't even defend that as a freedom, sorry...

TheGrinch
10-29-2012, 03:45 PM
Well, it does make somewhat of an interesting discussion about how we hold pets to a higher regard than other animals it's okay to slaughter.

However, I don't think that changes that the kid has clear mental issues to want to kill a mammal companion who lived with him just to watch it die.

presence
10-29-2012, 03:45 PM
This is an issue between the kid and his parents.

Right. If the kid did this to someone else's dog it changes things. But his parents gave him a dog. He chose to kill it. End of story really.

presence
10-29-2012, 03:47 PM
However, I don't think that changes that the kid has clear mental issues to want to kill a mammal companion who lived with him just to watch it die.

So we use the law to push a plea bargain via trumped felony charges for potential precrime?

kathy88
10-29-2012, 03:50 PM
Obviously the boy should be shot.

TheGrinch
10-29-2012, 03:53 PM
So we use the law to push a plea bargain via trumped felony charges for potential precrime?

What? Where did you get that from any of this?

First off, they got a call about a kid hurting a dog, and came in to find the dog hung from the door. What part of that is precrime?

And regardless, how you address crimes is completely different from how you address those with clear mental illnesses that are a danger to themselves and others.

Do I like that it's that way? No, but it is what it is. Some people become psychopaths.

kathy88
10-29-2012, 03:57 PM
What? Where did you get that from any of this?

First off, they got a call about a kid hurting a dog, and came in to find the dog hung from the door. What part of that is precrime?

And regardless, how you address crimes is completely different from how you address those with clear mental illnesses that are a danger to themselves and others.

Do I like that it's that way? No, but it is what it is. Some people become psychopaths.

They aren't addressed differently any more. They all get shot. Or tazed to death. (Which can't happen, BTW).

TheGrinch
10-29-2012, 04:03 PM
They aren't addressed differently any more. They all get shot. Or tazed to death. (Which can't happen, BTW).

True dat, now that's an argument I can get behind, if the kid is charged, rahter than treated (not that I'm really crazy about the rehabilitation industry anymore than the institutional, but again, it is what it is. You can't just have batshit crazy people unchecked)

Meatwasp
10-29-2012, 04:07 PM
[Whose Dexter?
I know a guy that got so mad at his wife he killed his dog with a cane. Later he commited suicide.

kathy88
10-29-2012, 04:11 PM
[Whose Dexter?
I know a guy that got so mad at his wife he killed his dog with a cane. Later he commited suicide.

It's a cable series about a serial killer.

presence
10-29-2012, 04:49 PM
What? Where did you get that from any of this?



some future serial killer being dealt with


First off, they got a call about a kid hurting a dog, and came in to find the dog hung from the door. What part of that is precrime?

"Dealing" with him because you've deemed him a potential future serial killer?


And regardless, how you address crimes is completely different from how you address those with clear mental illnesses that are a danger to themselves and others.

Have his parents asked to have him evaluated by the state? Has he hurt anyone or their property?



Do I like that it's that way? No, but it is what it is. Some people become psychopaths.

1-2% of every person you pass on the street is Genetically (http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=phycopath+gene+percent&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#hl=en&client=ubuntu&hs=Dle&channel=fs&spell=1&q=psychopath+gene+percent&sa=X&psj=1&ei=rwePUMTYE_C10AGt44CADg&ved=0CB4QvwUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=247092d22b5ffe94&bpcl=35466521&biw=1280&bih=825) a psychopath, should we put them all in institutions?

TheGrinch
10-29-2012, 04:55 PM
[QUOTE=TheGrinchWhoStoleDC;4705459]What? Where did you get that from any of this?





"dealing" with him because you've deemed him a potential future serial killer

And regardless, how you address crimes is completely different from how you address those with clear mental illnesses that are a danger to themselves and others.

Have his parents asked to have him evaluated by the state?



1-2% of every person you pass on the street is Genetically (http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=phycopath+gene+percent&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#hl=en&client=ubuntu&hs=Dle&channel=fs&spell=1&q=psychopath+gene+percent&sa=X&psj=1&ei=rwePUMTYE_C10AGt44CADg&ved=0CB4QvwUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=247092d22b5ffe94&bpcl=35466521&biw=1280&bih=825) a psychopath, should we put them all in institutions?
Dude, I don't have good answers for how you deal with the mentally ill, but when you start trying to kill a pet that lives with you to watch it die, it falls on the other side of whatever line it is that you're trying to determine here. I'm no psychologist, and won't pretend like I am, but that's not precrime. That is a kid that clearly has mental issues.

And what does it matter that I "deem" him a future serial killer? I'm not the police, nor advocating the government do the same, so that's a pretty silly gotcha attempt. That part was jsut me making a comment about a kid who has a strong likelihood of having serial-killer tendencies, and is at best clearly deeply troubled. It may not be a crime, but it's not pre-anything, it's post-violence.

Again, I don't know what the solution is or where to draw the line, but I sure know that it's not a good justification for anarchy to advocate not doing anything at all about violent people.

presence
10-29-2012, 05:26 PM
it's post-violence.

Again, I don't know what the solution is or where to draw the line, but I sure know that it's not a good justification for anarchy to advocate not doing anything at all about violent people.

Look I see where you are. In theory I agree, but in practice your advocating state intervention in precrime for something this "crazy" might do because of something he already did: putting down an animal; which really isn't a crime unless he did so in a cruel or unusual way. From what I can tell he choked it out by its collar. From a very strict philosophical point of view he's guilty of violence against who? No one AND no one's property as far as I can see. He killed his own dog.

TheGrinch
10-29-2012, 05:54 PM
Look I see where you are. In theory I agree, but in practice your advocating state intervention in precrime for something this "crazy" might do because of something he already did: putting down an animal; which really isn't a crime unless he did so in a cruel or unusual way. From what I can tell he choked it out by its collar. From a very strict philosophical point of view he's guilty of violence against who? No one AND no one's property as far as I can see. He killed his own dog.
Dude, it
s a 12-year old kid who said he was mad at his dog and wanted to see it die. This was not some farmer who took a horse out back when it was no longer able to run, or other reasonable actions.

Like I said I agree with you that there is not necessarily a crime here (hence no precrime either). What we have is a child who committed violence for no other reason but bloodlust and vengeance against a pet animal. I don't know where you draw the line between normal and crazy, but that ain't normal, and warrants psychological evaluation and probably treatment.

If that doesn't disturb you, then sorry, I think you have your blinders on. I don't know how a 12-year old taking it upon himself to kill the family pet because "he was mad at the dog and he wanted to see it die", not be considered cruel or unusual, and flat-out psychopathic.

cindy25
10-29-2012, 06:54 PM
this time, the police did the right thing. the little bastard should be in juvy until he's 18

Meatwasp
10-29-2012, 07:05 PM
this time, the police did the right thing. the little bastard should be in juvy until he's 18
Ditto kiddo

tod evans
10-29-2012, 07:27 PM
this time, the police did the right thing. the little bastard should be in juvy until he's 18

Are you serious?

Should kids who kill cats be locked up too?

What about gerbils or ferrets?

Flushing goldfish....


I agree what he did was wrong but I disagree that cops should be involved..

presence
10-29-2012, 08:42 PM
Are you serious?

Should kids who kill cats be locked up too?

What about gerbils or ferrets?

Flushing goldfish....


I agree what he did was wrong but I disagree that cops should be involved..

Wait... you're saying that every immoral or "wrong" thing that people do doesn't necessarily require the state to make it better?

http://occurrenceofopinion.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/see-the-light2.jpg


Don't get me wrong folks, if I was his father, four letter words would have flown; and I wouldn't let my 12 year old eat until he dug a hole, toted the dead, covered it over, and seeded. You can trust I'd be in charge of how deep the dog was going. And he'd be grounded from whatever he loved most until I could come up with some suitable restitution. But I'm not his father, that's his parents' job.

What my child does to the hampster, gerbil, ferret, cat, or dog that I've given to him, for him to learn how to care for another being, is between me and my child. Not the state and my child.


this time, the police did the right thing. the little bastard should be in juvy until he's 18

I caught my 3 year old wacking our dog's head with a stick last week. Does he need to be in a cage too? Or is that just a finable misdemeanor?

I put him in his room for 3 minutes in "time out" and talked to him for about 3 minutes when he came out about what it would be like if someone hit him with a stick. I talked to him about how precious eyes are. I told him to say sorry to the pup. He rebeled for about 3 minutes and I told him he could say sorry or go back to time out to think about it. That's about all a 3 year old can process. He said sorry.


Dude, its a 12-year old kid who said he was mad at his dog and wanted to see it die. This was not some farmer who took a horse out back when it was no longer able to run, or other reasonable actions.


keywords: imitation vs emulation child development


warrants psychological evaluation and probably treatment


At issue is the fundamental right of parents to decide what medical treatment is appropriate for their children. The notion of federal bureaucrats ordering potentially millions of youngsters to take psychotropic drugs like Ritalin strikes an emotional chord with American parents, who are sick of relinquishing more and more parental control to government. It’s not hard to imagine a time 20 or 30 years from now when government psychiatrists stigmatize children whose religious, social, or political values do not comport with those of the politically correct, secular state. “American parents must do everything they can to remain responsible for their children’s well-being. If we allow government to become intimately involved with our children’s minds and bodies, we will have lost the final vestiges of parental authority. Strong families are the last line of defense against an overreaching bureaucratic state.”

RON PAUL
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/11/22/215244.shtml


Thanks for killing it for me Ron.

Qdog
10-29-2012, 09:06 PM
Would it be justice if we hung him from a doorknob to watch him die? Sounds fair to me.

presence
10-29-2012, 09:29 PM
//