Arizona Arrests a Woman for Feeding the Poor in Her Driveway.

[sailingaway]

Free food given away in driveways is no laughing matter in Arizona, where it until this month was also illegal to give bottled water to people at a public religious festival. It took the threat of legal action, coupled with a public relations campaign by the Rutherford Institute, to persuade the Phoenix city council to repeal the law.

Now the Rutherford Institute has another city ordinance in its cross-hairs. Rutherford is a legal defense organization. It is coming to the rescue of a woman who is giving away food in her driveway. The city of Glendale sent a policeman to warn Millie Ramirez that she was violating the law by giving away free food in her driveway.

This woman, the city says, is a menace to society. I am sure you can understand the city’s position.

For seven years, Ramirez has collected donations from area grocers and made them available to needy families by setting up a temporary food bank in her driveway, which she puts up and takes down each day. In taking issue with the makeshift “food bank,” Glendale officials insist that Ramirez is violating the Glendale City Code by storing materials outside her home, citing her charitable activities as being an “illegal home occupation,” an “illegal land use,” and as unlawfully lacking a “business license.”

Can you imagine this? Using a driveway for seven years without getting a business license.

What about her first amendment rights of the free exercise of religion? Irrelevant, the city says. What about due process under the 14th amendment? The city says she got due process. She was warned by a cop to stop it. That’s enough due process for anyone.


Read more: http://teapartyeconomist.com/2012/10/25/arizona-arrests-a-woman-for-feeding-the-poor-in-her-driveway/#ixzz2ADc8HjRp


more at the link

[fr33]

I first learned about her from this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gi0OiUR35U
She asked, "Will you come visit me in jail?"

Now she's been arrested.

http://teapartyeconomist.com/2012/10/25/arizona-arrests-a-woman-for-feeding-the-poor-in-her-driveway/


Free food given away in driveways is no laughing matter in Arizona, where it until this month was also illegal to give bottled water to people at a public religious festival. It took the threat of legal action, coupled with a public relations campaign by the Rutherford Institute, to persuade the Phoenix city council to repeal the law.

Now the Rutherford Institute has another city ordinance in its cross-hairs. Rutherford is a legal defense organization. It is coming to the rescue of a woman who is giving away food in her driveway. The city of Glendale sent a policeman to warn Millie Ramirez that she was violating the law by giving away free food in her driveway.

This woman, the city says, is a menace to society. I am sure you can understand the city’s position.

For seven years, Ramirez has collected donations from area grocers and made them available to needy families by setting up a temporary food bank in her driveway, which she puts up and takes down each day. In taking issue with the makeshift “food bank,” Glendale officials insist that Ramirez is violating the Glendale City Code by storing materials outside her home, citing her charitable activities as being an “illegal home occupation,” an “illegal land use,” and as unlawfully lacking a “business license.”

Can you imagine this? Using a driveway for seven years without getting a business license.

What about her first amendment rights of the free exercise of religion? Irrelevant, the city says. What about due process under the 14th amendment? The city says she got due process. She was warned by a cop to stop it. That’s enough due process for anyone.

Read more: http://teapartyeconomist.com/2012/10/25/arizona-arrests-a-woman-for-feeding-the-poor-in-her-driveway/#ixzz2ANS3M9XQ


The good Samaritan is banished to a jail cell. How dare she be charitable. That monopoly belongs to the state. :mad:

[AGRP]

Cant be taking taking away the feel good reasons why the state exists. Next thing you know people will learn how to build long straight things otherwise known as roads.

[John F Kennedy III]

WE'RE GONNA FREE THE SHIT OUT OF YOU!!!

[kathy88]

This is so sad.

[AlexAmore]

This is what I posted to Facebook just now:

This is what happens when you have no private property rights. The government can tell you what to do and they certainly don't want competition. If people were able to help each other out without paying the government outrageous fees, permits, properly zoned kitchens, and outlets then we would find out we don't need a giant invasive nanny state.

The government doesn't want to be obsolete so they make us dependent.

[FrankRep]

Phoenix city council made the law, not Arizona.

[Czolgosz]

This is what I posted to Facebook just now:

This is what happens when you have no private property rights. The government can tell you what to do and they certainly don't want competition. If people were able to help each other out without paying the government outrageous fees, permits, properly zoned kitchens, and outlets then we would find out we don't need a giant invasive nanny state.

The government doesn't want to be obsolete so they make us dependent.

Precisely.

[Seraphim]

Apocalypse, please.

[KCIndy]

I just read a bit more on this.

Turns out Ms. Ramirez got ratted out by a neighbor:



.......the neighbor who complained to the city spoke for the first time Tuesday about why she opposes Ramirez's operation staying in the neighborhood.

While she wants her voice to be heard, the woman didn't want her identity revealed because she has read threatening comments aimed at her on the Internet.

"I just don't see how it's safe, leaving food out standing out in the sun all day, letting anyone come and take it," she explained. "Like I said, rodents, birds [can get it]. It cannot be safe."


http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/National-Attention-for-Front-Yard-Foodbank-Fight-175540831.html

So.

Someone voluntarily giving away free food to needy folks who are voluntarily accepting it is facing possible jail time, one more victim of a statist mindset. :(

[Tod]

Phoenix city council made the law, not Arizona.

In this context, state = government, not state as in Arizona, New Mexico, etc.

[Tod]

I just read a bit more on this.

Turns out Ms. Ramirez got ratted out by a neighbor:



http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/National-Attention-for-Front-Yard-Foodbank-Fight-175540831.html

So.

Someone voluntarily giving away free food to needy folks who are voluntarily accepting it is in jail, one more victim of a statist mindset. :(

When the SHTF, that will be a huge problem, I predict. "oh mister policeman, my neighbor has food and water stored up and i'm pretty sure he has guns too." "thank you good citizen, here is a food stamp entitling you to a share of what we confiscate. we must not allow such evil hoarding to exist."

[A Son of Liberty]

I just read a bit more on this.

Turns out Ms. Ramirez got ratted out by a neighbor:



http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/National-Attention-for-Front-Yard-Foodbank-Fight-175540831.html

So.

Someone voluntarily giving away free food to needy folks who are voluntarily accepting it is facing possible jail time, one more victim of a statist mindset. :(

She'd apparently prefer they starve to death, rather than get an upset stomach over some warm cheese.

I love people.

[Henry Rogue]

Department of Homeland Security recognizes charity as a form of terrorism.

[KCIndy]

She'd apparently prefer they starve to death, rather than get an upset stomach over some warm cheese.

I love people.


After re-reading that article I linked, I think the "concerned neighbor" isn't worried about the well being of the food recipients. Instead, she appears to be worried about having the "wrong sort" of people in her neighborhood:


"[It's] bringing transients into this area. It's bad for property values; it's bad for neighbor safety. There's children all around and it's not a safe environment," said the neighbor, adding that her child's school, Glendale American Elementary, sits right across the street from Ramirez's house.

"Property values" might be affected? :eek::mad: Jeez. Gimme a break.

[tod evans]

After re-reading that article I linked, I think the "concerned neighbor" isn't worried about the well being of the food recipients. Instead, she appears to be worried about having the "wrong sort" of people in her neighborhood:



"Property values" might be affected? :eek::mad: Jeez. Gimme a break.


Don't forget "It's for the children".......

[AlexAmore]

"Property values" might be affected? :eek::mad: Jeez. Gimme a break.

Yeah that whole argument is bullshit. Nobody put a gun to her head and made her buy that property next those neighbours or potential neighbours. If doesn't like it she should have bought a secluded property

[angelatc]

Oh my! She's bringing kids into the neighborhood???? Quick, call the Pied Piper.

[loveshiscountry]

After re-reading that article I linked, I think the "concerned neighbor" isn't worried about the well being of the food recipients. Instead, she appears to be worried about having the "wrong sort" of people in her neighborhood:



"Property values" might be affected? :eek::mad: Jeez. Gimme a break.This is the mantra of morons. We have a few in my neighborhood. Why anyone wants property values to rise when they are not selling is beyond me.

[AGRP]

And Jesus said to them: "Feed the hungry, needy, and less fortunate as long as they dont hurt your property value. Call the cops and have the person providing food or clothing locked in a cage for not having a business license".

[angelatc]

And Jesus said to them: "Feed the hungry, needy, and less fortunate as long as they dont hurt your property value. Call the cops and have the person providing food or clothing locked in a cage for not having a business license".

I totally want to see that sign in her front yard.

[Acala]

As usual, it is the neighbors complaining.

This is a common problem in a slightly different context. Groups (usually church groups) like to feed the homeless in the City parks. Of course this attracts the homeless to the park and the neighborhood around the park. The residents complain that the homeless then hang around the park making it unusable for the neighborhhood children. They also complain that the homeless loiter about the neighborhhoods, throwing garbage and engaging in public defecation and urination. Interestingly, the feeding is usually done in a neighborhood far away from the one served by the church.

The answer in the case of the parks is easy - get the government out of the park business.

In the case of this woman, it is a more difficult problem. I know that I would not be happy if my neighbor started drawing a bunch of vagrants into the neighborhood. While it is politically correct to assume a "there but for the grace of God go I" attitude about the homeless, the current reality is that most of the homeless are homeless because they are either mentally ill, on the run from the law, or drug addicts, and they have destroyed any support network they ever had through their own actions. Of course there are exceptions to this, and more exceptions all the time as the economy continues to crash, but any homeless feeding operation is going to attract a significant share of the foregoing folks that most people are not going to want rambling around their neighborhood.

Of course denying people the right to use their property as they wish is not the answer, and calling the cops to rat out your neighbor is pathetic and cowardly. But what IS the answer? I know if it was my neighbor I would be trying to figure out an alternative - maybe getting the neighbors together to fund a bigger program for the lady in exchange for her moving it to a better location?

I don't know the answer, but I know it is not an easy problem to solve. And it is exactly the kind of problem that leads to the creation of restrictive HOAs.

[KCIndy]

This is the mantra of morons. We have a few in my neighborhood. Why anyone wants property values to rise when they are not selling is beyond me.

I really try to avoid jumping to conclusions, and I hope I'm wrong about the "anonymous neighbor" in this case. I really do. But when I hear phrases like "lowering the property values" I can't help but get the impression that the phrase is code for, "Keep all the (non-whites) away from meeee!!!!"

I have to wonder in this case. It's completely ridiculous to think that a little food giveaway would damage property values, so I wonder what else is in play here.

[KCIndy]

Of course denying people the right to use their property as they wish is not the answer, and calling the cops to rat out your neighbor is pathetic and cowardly. But what IS the answer? I know if it was my neighbor I would be trying to figure out an alternative - maybe getting the neighbors together to fund a bigger program for the lady in exchange for her moving it to a better location?



If the homeless vagrants are actually the problem, why not just call the police and complain about the homeless vagrants?

[VoluntaryAmerican]

:mad:

This story makes me so mad.

[Acala]

If the homeless vagrants are actually the problem, why not just call the police and complain about the homeless vagrants?

Vagrancy laws, even where they still exist, are rarely enforced. And shouldn't be. They are, if anything, worse than the zoning laws at issue.

[AGRP]

If the homeless vagrants are actually the problem, why not just call the police and complain about the homeless vagrants?

Why not personally talk to the homeless instead of calling someone else to talk to them? From what I know, the police dont enjoy being called upon to play counselors anyway. From what we all know, calling the police can make things worse.

[paulbot24]

"Worried about the rodents and the birds due to the food laying around?" This mentality is ass. What do you call fruit that has fallen from a fruit tree in your yard? Little round trashy health hazards?

[KCIndy]

Vagrancy laws, even where they still exist, are rarely enforced. And shouldn't be. They are, if anything, worse than the zoning laws at issue.


Why not personally talk to the homeless instead of calling someone else to talk to them? From what I know, the police dont enjoy being called upon to play counselors anyway.


I agree with both these statements... To be clear, my "why not call the police about the homeless" statement was just rhetorical musing. I should have been a LOT more clear about that; my apologies.

My question was in regard to the "anonymous neighbor" who calls the police on *her* neighbor who is feeding the homeless. If the homeless were bothering "anonymous" that much, I have to wonder why she didn't call the police and complain directly about the vagrants rather than point the cops at her neighbor.

For what it's worth, I've encountered and dealt with lots of vagrants. Most, when approached reasonably, really are pretty reasonable in turn. Yeah, there are some who clearly have mental problems. A few are downright scary. But there are plenty of others who have damn near broken down in tears when handed a crummy bag of hamburgers.

[seraphson]

WE'RE GONNA FREE THE SHIT OUT OF YOU!!!

Exactly. By doing this she's screwing up with the 'Gubament's job of charity (minus the guns, badges, and taxes of course) and cutting into their "turf".

Behold citizens! Witness my power as with a flick of the wrist that holds the pen of law I shall once and for all end poverty because I said so and because this piece of paper says so!

*40+ years later*

Disability and welfare claims break record highs since the inception of "forced charity".

[HOLLYWOOD]

This is the mantra of morons. We have a few in my neighborhood. Why anyone wants property values to rise when they are not selling is beyond me.Yeah, I tend to find those that are glued to televisions, zombized into what to believe, how to be obidient to the state over your neighbors.

Fed/State/County/City government apparatus wants property values up = higher county assessments = higher/more tax revenues for gov. ...NOW PAY UP for .gov crime families salaries, benefits, and pensions for decades.

Realtors love higher property values... we all know why

Banks love higher property values... we all know why

Wall Street loves higher property values... we all know why

There's a huge difference by the racketeering/conspiring parties to artificially inflate property values. We know, plus experienced the huge difference of free markets, natural demand and value, versus the rigged markets of profiteering-racketeering bubbles/collapse.

[acptulsa]

Exactly. By doing this she's screwing up with the 'Gubament's job of charity (minus the guns, badges, and taxes of course) and cutting into their "turf".

And the government, like any other mafia, defends that turf because they get a piece of the action. This woman isn't giving anyone campaign contributions or other kickbacks. Ergo, she has to go.

And don't forget Obama's massive and ugly federal food handling laws from a few years ago. It's a wonder we can still invite friends over for supper. Before you know it, raw ingredients will be illegal and only prepackaged, prepared 'nuke and puke' foods will be allowed...

This Thanksgiving, be sure to be extra thankful for the straight-from-the-oven (or fryer) turkey. At this rate, it could be your last.

[heavenlyboy34]

And the government, like any other mafia, defends that turf because they get a piece of the action. This woman isn't giving anyone campaign contributions or other kickbacks. Ergo, she has to go.

And don't forget Obama's massive and ugly federal food handling laws from a few years ago. It's a wonder we can still invite friends over for supper. Before you know it, raw ingredients will be illegal and only prepackaged, prepared 'nuke and puke' foods will be allowed...

This Thanksgiving, be sure to be extra thankful for the straight-from-the-oven (or fryer) turkey. At this rate, it could be your last.
Hey now, citizen! Don't you know you're supposed to be grateful to our Overlords because of all they do for us! Shame on you! Reported. /sarc :(

[heavenlyboy34]

And the government, like any other mafia, defends that turf because they get a piece of the action. This woman isn't giving anyone campaign contributions or other kickbacks. Ergo, she has to go.

And don't forget Obama's massive and ugly federal food handling laws from a few years ago. It's a wonder we can still invite friends over for supper. Before you know it, raw ingredients will be illegal and only prepackaged, prepared 'nuke and puke' foods will be allowed...

This Thanksgiving, be sure to be extra thankful for the straight-from-the-oven (or fryer) turkey. At this rate, it could be your last.
Then there's all that ammunition the Feds have been buying lately...they may use events like this as a reason to use those bullets. :( :eek:

[acptulsa]

Hey now, citizen! Don't you know you're supposed to be grateful to our Overlords because of all they do for us! Shame on you! Reported. /sarc :(

I'm grateful to the turkey for giving its life, and being delicious. As for those other turkeys, not so much.

[Czolgosz]

I'm grateful to the turkey for giving its life, and being delicious. As for those other turkeys, not so much.


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/000/681/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg

[Dr.3D]

Does this mean I have to remove my bird feeder?

[FrancisMarion]

Originally Posted by loveshiscountry
This is the mantra of morons. We have a few in my neighborhood. Why anyone wants property values to rise when they are not selling is beyond me.


Lots of people find one as a prerequisite of the other. I don't consider them morons, unless I'm confused about the term equity.


Yeah, I tend to find those that are glued to televisions, zombized into what to believe, how to be obidient to the state over your neighbors.

Fed/State/County/City government apparatus wants property values up = higher county assessments = higher/more tax revenues for gov. ...NOW PAY UP for .gov crime families salaries, benefits, and pensions for decades.

Realtors love higher property values... we all know why

Banks love higher property values... we all know why

Wall Street loves higher property values... we all know why

There's a huge difference by the racketeering/conspiring parties to artificially inflate property values. We know, plus experienced the huge difference of free markets, natural demand and value, versus the rigged markets of profiteering-racketeering bubbles/collapse.

I'm a homeowner and I love higher property values too. There is nothing wrong with equity. When I sought a note to purchase my home I was counting on overtime that the property would appreciate. In my mind, this is called an investment.

As far as the "NOW PAY UP". If the communities actually interacted with each other and solved their problems instead of calling the "authorities" there would not be a valid reason for higher property taxes.


And the government, like any other mafia, defends that turf because they get a piece of the action. This woman isn't giving anyone campaign contributions or other kickbacks. Ergo, she has to go.

Do not churches fall under this same scenario? I know of plenty of churches that feed the homeless on Saturday mornings.

---As far as this article: I don't think it is unreasonable that this women right a letter to the city asking for money to help pay her note. If they can tell her what she can and cannot do on "her" property, then they should be obligated to accept some of the financial burden associated with the property. :eek:

[acptulsa]

Do not churches fall under this same scenario? I know of plenty of churches that feed the homeless on Saturday mornings.

I suppose they could, if the deacons are getting kickbacks from the suppliers. Even so, churches don't force members to pay for these things, and members who don't see a real bang for their contributed buck can switch churches. So, where's the percentage?

[FrancisMarion]

I suppose they could, if the deacons are getting kickbacks from the suppliers. Even so, churches don't force members to pay for these things, and members who don't see a real bang for their contributed buck can switch churches. So, where's the percentage?

There was a misunderstanding. Eventhough I don't go every Sunday, I do not question the intentions or motivations of the church. I was just making an analogy to the argument that she has to go because she is alleviating dependence on the state for food (unless I misunderstood). the monopoly argument.

[John F Kennedy III]

I really try to avoid jumping to conclusions, and I hope I'm wrong about the "anonymous neighbor" in this case. I really do. But when I hear phrases like "lowering the property values" I can't help but get the impression that the phrase is code for, "Keep all the (non-whites) away from meeee!!!!"

I have to wonder in this case. It's completely ridiculous to think that a little food giveaway would damage property values, so I wonder what else is in play here.

It doesn't have to be racism on the home owner's part. Didn't they (property appraisers) actually lower property values in neighborhoods where black people own houses?

I also wonder what else is in play.

[Brian4Liberty]

As usual, it is the neighbors complaining.

This is a common problem in a slightly different context. Groups (usually church groups) like to feed the homeless in the City parks. Of course this attracts the homeless to the park and the neighborhood around the park. The residents complain that the homeless then hang around the park making it unusable for the neighborhhood children. They also complain that the homeless loiter about the neighborhhoods, throwing garbage and engaging in public defecation and urination. Interestingly, the feeding is usually done in a neighborhood far away from the one served by the church.

The answer in the case of the parks is easy - get the government out of the park business.

In the case of this woman, it is a more difficult problem. I know that I would not be happy if my neighbor started drawing a bunch of vagrants into the neighborhood. While it is politically correct to assume a "there but for the grace of God go I" attitude about the homeless, the current reality is that most of the homeless are homeless because they are either mentally ill, on the run from the law, or drug addicts, and they have destroyed any support network they ever had through their own actions. Of course there are exceptions to this, and more exceptions all the time as the economy continues to crash, but any homeless feeding operation is going to attract a significant share of the foregoing folks that most people are not going to want rambling around their neighborhood.

Of course denying people the right to use their property as they wish is not the answer, and calling the cops to rat out your neighbor is pathetic and cowardly. But what IS the answer? I know if it was my neighbor I would be trying to figure out an alternative - maybe getting the neighbors together to fund a bigger program for the lady in exchange for her moving it to a better location?

I don't know the answer, but I know it is not an easy problem to solve. And it is exactly the kind of problem that leads to the creation of restrictive HOAs.

+rep

That's the real story. And HOAs are taking over. Micro-government to the rescue! :o :(

[John F Kennedy III]

I agree with both these statements... To be clear, my "why not call the police about the homeless" statement was just rhetorical musing. I should have been a LOT more clear about that; my apologies.

My question was in regard to the "anonymous neighbor" who calls the police on *her* neighbor who is feeding the homeless. If the homeless were bothering "anonymous" that much, I have to wonder why she didn't call the police and complain directly about the vagrants rather than point the cops at her neighbor.

For what it's worth, I've encountered and dealt with lots of vagrants. Most, when approached reasonably, really are pretty reasonable in turn. Yeah, there are some who clearly have mental problems. A few are downright scary. But there are plenty of others who have damn near broken down in tears when handed a crummy bag of hamburgers.

When I was a teenager we used to hangout on Main St ounce a week. There were always plenty of homeless. So we got to know alot of them. In my experience, as long as you approach them in a normal fashion, even the mentally ill and drug addicts will act fairly normal and respectful (in their own way) in return.

[CaptainAmerica]

Should have offered the pig a donut to go away.Glendale city government is corrupt ,and for the past few years the city has laundered millions upon millions of tax dollars into subsidizing the Coyotes hockey team and building the Cardinals stadium(real criminals right there).

[Acala]

When I was a teenager we used to hangout on Main St ounce a week. There were always plenty of homeless. So we got to know alot of them. In my experience, as long as you approach them in a normal fashion, even the mentally ill and drug addicts will act fairly normal and respectful (in their own way) in return.

If you own a home and have little children you most likely do not want schizophrenics shitting on your front lawn. Of course that is an exaggeration, but it also contains a truth that must be dealt with or you cannot solve the problem.

[John F Kennedy III]

If you own a home and have little children you most likely do not want schizophrenics shitting on your front lawn. Of course that is an exaggeration, but it also contains a truth that must be dealt with or you cannot solve the problem.

I agree.

[fr33]

This story reminds me of a Tom Waits song.

I'd sell your heart to the junkman baby
For a buck, for a buck
If you're looking for someone
To pull you out of that ditch
You're out of luck, you're out of luck

The ship is sinking
The ship is sinking
The ship is sinking
There's leak, there's leak,
In the boiler room
The poor, the lame, the blind
Who are the ones that we kept in charge?
Killers, thieves, and lawyers

You could say that song promotes socialism. The problem with socialism is that it prohibits voluntary collectivism like charities. If we were all as generous as this woman; or allowed to be as generous, we could do away with most government programs immediately without any pain (except for the bureaucrats).

Neighbors that think they have a right to dictate what I do with my land are authoritarians trying to claim my property as theirs.

[AFPVet]

Phoenix city council made the law, not Arizona.

Cities can't make law, but they can make ordinances.

[fr33]

I've emailed the Rutherford Institute, because they seem to be supporting her, asking what they are actually doing. I really want to help her fight this court battle or even help her continue with civil disobedience. We'll see what they say. I don't really know how to contact her directly. The media isn't really covering this at all. If you search her name in news sites, the only links that come up are from before she was arrested.