PDA

View Full Version : split off from Ron Paul Grassroots subforum about voting in November




nasaal
10-24-2012, 12:55 PM
Gary Johnson won me over for good in the debate. Yea I'd rather have Paul on the Ballot, but he isn't. I can more than live with Johnson.

Madison320
10-24-2012, 12:57 PM
Tonight in the third party debate; Gary Johnson "my hero Ron Paul". THAT sealed the deal for me right there. Ron Paul is NOT on my ballot. Gary Johnson is. If I write Ron Paul on my ballot my vote actually might not be counted. If I vote for Gary Johnson my vote has a 99% chance of being counted (figuring for possible voter fraud).
I agree with Gary Johnson on 94% of his policies compared to 97% of Ron Paul's policies, compared to 59% of ROmney's and 4% of Obama's. I can cast my vote guilt free for Gary Johnson despite my deep long standing committment to NOBP. I also believe that if I had an honest discussion with Ron Paul himself, he would support my choice.

That's almost exactly how I feel. The differences between Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are even smaller when you consider how far left are country is. I agree a little bit more with Ron Paul's beliefs but they're both so far on the side of liberty compared to the rest of the country, that it doesn't make much difference. We need to move in the direction of freedom. When we get there we can fine tune it.

sailingaway
10-24-2012, 12:58 PM
I'm thinking of breaking off the Gary Johnson comments to the 2012 section. This is Ron Paul's forum

hrdman2luv
10-24-2012, 01:54 PM
Gary Johnson won me over for good in the debate. Yea I'd rather have Paul on the Ballot, but he isn't. I can more than live with Johnson.
I like Gary Johnson. Enough to vote for him. Especially since knowing that if I write in "Ron Pauls" name, it will be listed as "others", and not Ron Paul.

Ron Paul stated, that you have to change governmnt from the inside out. The LP is about as close to being inside (for conservatives) as the GOP is going to allow. So I think it necessary to help the LP carry on the fight.

I just wonder, if RP could've gotten elected as an LP candidate for his district in 2008, how many of us would be voting LP now? I would imagine, 95% of the RP "write in" voters wouldn't have no problem voting for Gary Johnson this year.

hrdman2luv
10-24-2012, 01:59 PM
I'm thinking of breaking off the Gary Johnson comments to the 2012 section. This is Ron Paul's forum

I think the GJ and RP supporters are about equal. And separating us, is dividing us. I understand this is a Ron Paul forum. And a Ron Paul thread.

It just seems as if us Gary Johnsons supporters are being made to sit in our corners and play amongst ourselves. There's not one of us that wouldn't vote for Ron Paul if he was on the ballot. So we are still supporting RP's cause.

Food for thought. No offense, but dividing us is just that. Dividing us. Want to see the Liberty movement come crashing to a end. Division is the fastest and easiest way.

sailingaway
10-24-2012, 02:19 PM
I think the GJ and RP supporters are about equal. And separating us, is dividing us. I understand this is a Ron Paul forum. And a Ron Paul thread.

It just seems as if us Gary Johnsons supporters are being made to sit in our corners and play amongst ourselves. There's not one of us that wouldn't vote for Ron Paul if he was on the ballot. So we are still supporting RP's cause.

Food for thought. No offense, but dividing us is just that. Dividing us. Want to see the Liberty movement come crashing to a end. Division is the fastest and easiest way.

I don't think they are even but it doesn't matter, I am speaking of subforums here, as in not going into Rand's and saying vote for Trey Grayson, etc. This is Ron Paul forums overall, but this specifically is the Ron Paul subforum of Ron Paul forums. There is a 2012 presidential election section where others can be discussed. Saying RON PAUL's particular corner isn't GJ's is appropriate, I believe.

And this isn't a case of 'dividing people' but not having GJ people come to Ron Paul's section and try to get Ron Paul supporters on Ron Paul forums to not vote for Ron Paul. Except for that, there is no problem with your participating in threads in that, or any other subforum here.

ShaganOverman
10-26-2012, 11:23 PM
Voting Libertarian at least advances a cause. 5% in the general election nets 20million in federal campaign funds for next the next elelection. Ron Paul once ran as a libertarian. He believes in the parties message. Writing in RP just because your angry at the republican party advances nothing. If you really want to advance the cause of liberty voting for the libertarian is the best thing you can do with your vote. Everything else is just a protest vote.

CPUd
10-27-2012, 01:19 AM
Voting Libertarian at least advances a cause. 5% in the general election nets 20million in federal campaign funds for next the next elelection. Ron Paul once ran as a libertarian. He believes in the parties message. Writing in RP just because your angry at the republican party advances nothing. If you really want to advance the cause of liberty voting for the libertarian is the best thing you can do with your vote. Everything else is just a protest vote.

What you are really suggesting is that we should help the LP get a spot at the trough. I'd rather there not be a trough.

Captain Shays
10-27-2012, 06:09 AM
I don't care about your guilt, but there is an organization to this board. Also, Ron Paul specifically said writing him in was fine if people were fed up, and I posted that video earlier in the thread. I have no idea who Ron will vote for, other than it will not be for Romney or Obama.

He has also on multiple occasions said he was going to continue speaking out on these issues. He may be retiring from the House, but he is not retiring from public life.

Also, I am NOT the one saying YOU can't vote for anyone you want.

Sailing, I don't think any of us who have changed our minds from NOBP to voting for Gary Johnson are saying you can't vote for Ron Paul. All of us just try to make a pursuasive argument in the best way that we can. I too have decided with great reluctance to vote for Johnson for the very same reasons RonPaul101.com has. I want the Libertarian Party to reach it's 5%, but I also agree with Johnson on 94% of his issues according to a test I took. Plus during the third party debate he said that Ron Paul is his hero. Plus I know for a FACT that since Ron Paul didn't file the paperwork to be counted as a write in my vote won't even be counted if I write him in. I want my vote to be counted. I want the GOP to be on notice that they are losing Liberty minded voters and hopefully if they lose to Obama, I REALLY want them to KNOW without a doubt it was me/us who cost them the election. They won't know if the write in Ron Paul votes aren't counted. No one will. I just don't want the GOP to know it, I want EVERYONE to know it.

chudrockz
10-27-2012, 06:11 AM
What you are really suggesting is that we should help the LP get a spot at the trough. I'd rather there not be a trough.

This. In any case, does anyone know if the LP would even TAKE federal election funds? Wouldn't that be rather "un-Libertarian" of them?

Captain Shays
10-27-2012, 06:14 AM
What you are really suggesting is that we should help the LP get a spot at the trough. I'd rather there not be a trough.
Well me too but the trough is there. Doesn't Ron Paul wish there were no earmarks but he votes to get the money back for his constituents? When I install solar panels here in New Jersey and my tax dollars that are taken out of my paycheck before I even see them g help to buy the panels I'm installing on somebody else's roof don't you think it burns my ass? It burns my libertarian Ron Paul supporting boss's ass too but we promote the subsidies, and grants and tax breaks to our customers when we sell the system because it's there. It exists and we can't change that. Of course we fight to have them removed and we try to educate everyone we come in contact with about the free market approach to energy production and all of its virtues, but since the mechanisms are in place and we cant change it we use them to our advantage. I have no problem with the Libertarian Party taking advantage of the $90 million to compete with the monies given by taxpayers to the corporate controlled parties.

chudrockz
10-27-2012, 06:18 AM
You don't think there's a good chance that being given a ninety million dollar "gift" might well turn the LP into yet another "corporate controlled party"?

Dogsoldier
10-28-2012, 10:30 AM
I'm a libertarian.So is Ron Paul.Do you honestly think Ron Paul will vote for Romney?OF COURSE NOT!!!He will vote for Gary Johnson.He agrees with GJ 94% then Romney maybe 50%?And I'm being generous there. He will vote for Gary Johnson as all Ron Paul lovers should to send a clear message to the establishment.

I don't understand why you write his name in when it won't be counted and the parties do not care,count,pay attention to write ins. Do you realize how many different names will be wrote in?There could be over a thousand different names wrote in people that just don't care and write in their neighbors names.Who the hell cares about a write in?!?!?

Ron Paul IS a libertarian. There seems to be some republicans on this site that hate this. I can prove it. Go to the libertarian website and look at the platform and then go to the neocon site.See for yourself which 1 Paul aligns with more. LIBERTARIAN!

Send a clear message to the GOP by voting for Gary Johnson a guy that Ron Paul WILL vote for.I mean who the hell else will he vote for you tell me?!?!? It sure as hell won't be Romney!!!Think he will write a name in?Hell no he won't. He will vote for the guy that best follows the constitution THAT IS ACTUALLY RUNNING AND WILL BE ON THE BALLOT!

I am a Ron Paul delegate from Missouri and registered republican.

Our goal is to take over the establishment NOT join them. A write in does nothing to help the cause.

MelissaWV
10-28-2012, 11:18 AM
I'm not sure how many times this has to be said, and that's part of the problem: we're each going to vote our conscience.

Those of you voting for Johnson, good on ya. Many of you do like him, agree with him, and actively support him. Some of you are thinking big-picture for your party of choice. Okay.

Now, why be the Jehovah's Witnesses of the forums, hopping into every "I'm writing in Ron Paul" topic and telling people it's silly to do so, and please vote for Gary, and you really agree with him (even if you don't), and please help us get matching funds, and don't throw your vote away?

Captain Shays
10-28-2012, 11:44 AM
Dogsoldier and Mellissa make great points but let me point out that we're all brothers and sisters who have been raped, beaten, lied to, accused of horrible evils, discounted and even called terrorists by the establishment and that, we're all on the same side. We're all just looking for the best way to help our country and that probaly includes putting the screws to the establishment. So what's the "best" way? I'm still not totally sure. I'm leaning toward the position that Dogsoldier expressed and, I also totally sympathize with Melissa's points. The main reason why I am just leaning toward Johnson is that my write in for Ron Paul will not be counted. Dog is right. Nobody cares about write in votes and just about that same number also discounts those who vote for ANY third party, not just the Libertariam Party as irrevelant, crazy, stupid and evil for helping to elect the worst of the two evils. Dog is right that "they" will place my write in for Ron Paul next to the write in for Donald Duck which to me is worse than putting my vote for an established Libertarian who IS on my ballot next to Jill Stein who is also on the ballot even though I disagree with her politicial solutions to the problems we face. Sure they see votes for third party candidates as wasted votes, Sure they think we're stupid, crazy or evil. There is a certain legitimacy to voting third party because of all the ballot access qualification requirements and hurdles they must face just to get their names on the ballot. I KNOW what I'm talking about because I have done it. I have stood out in front of super markets asking total strangers for their names, addresses and phone numbers to get some (to them) obscure candidate's name on the ballot. I've done it three times in three different elections.Tust me. Even though the average American doesn't know whats going on and fewer care about what third parties must go through just to get their names on ballots and make a good run of it, but the establishment KNOWS for sure. Of course they do. They made the rules. They watch us. They count our votes wn evote third party and then they blame us for costng them the election. They blamd Perot for costing Bush 41. They blamed Nader for costing Gore. Meanwhile as obscure as my candidate was, I still looked down my nose at those who wrote in Donald Duck and thought they were crazy idiots. Donald Duck is NOT Ronald Paul but in the minds of establishment thinkers it's right there next to it. Gary Johnson's voters WILL be seen as Ronald Paul voters who are giving them the New Jersey bird salute and they may hate me and they may call me names but they WILL KNOW I put the screws to them and why I put the screws to them and they WILL KNOW that my vote for Gary Johnson IS a vote for Ron Paul. If I write in Ron Paul, they will see my vote as a vote for Donald Duck

Dogsoldier
10-28-2012, 11:47 AM
"Many of you do like him, agree with him, and actively support him."...Such as Ron Paul who agrees 94% with him and probably less then 50% for Romney and they are actaually running and on the ballot.


"Some of you are thinking big-picture for your party of choice. Okay." "YOUR Party?"What does that mean? My "party" is the constitution and who best supports it that IS ACTUALLY RUNNING AND ON THE BALLOT.



"telling people it's silly to do so, and please vote for Gary"----Not silly just a waste of your vote. I'm begging to please don't waste it we've come so far please help send a clear message to both the democratic party and the republicans

MelissaWV
10-28-2012, 11:54 AM
"Many of you do like him, agree with him, and actively support him."...Such as Ron Paul who agrees 94% with him and probably less then 50% for Romney and they are actaually running and on the ballot.


"Some of you are thinking big-picture for your party of choice. Okay." "YOUR Party?"What does that mean? My "party" is the constitution and who best supports it that IS ACTUALLY RUNNING AND ON THE BALLOT.



"telling people it's silly to do so, and please vote for Gary"----Not silly just a waste of your vote. I'm begging to please don't waste it we've come so far please help send a clear message to both the democratic party and the republicans

YOUR party meaning the L party. I am not a party member. I really don't think boosting another party up to a spot at the trough, as someone else more eloquently put it, should be the reason I hold my nose and vote for someone I do not agree with on most of the issues important to me. Your percentages are made up, imo, and whether that is malicious or just to try to pursuade someone... who knows. You agree with him, or you want to boost up a third party, or both. Good :) I do not agree with him, I'm not an L party member, and I will be writing in Ron Paul. If there were no write-in space, I would just be leaving it blank. The only reason I am voting at all is my concern over a number of local races and state amendments.

Captain Shays
10-28-2012, 12:03 PM
Melissa and Dog let's not confuse the small "l" in libertarian with the big "L" member in the Libertarian Party. I was never a member in the Libertarian Party either but I AM a libertarian for sure and so is Ron Paul and in my opinion so is Gary Johnson. He may not be as pure as driven snow libertarian but I still consider him a libertarian.More importantly is that the establishment will see my vote for Johnson IS a vote for Ron Paul and it WILL be counted

MelissaWV
10-28-2012, 12:22 PM
Melissa and Dog let's not confuse the small "l" in libertarian with the big "L" member in the Libertarian Party. I was never a member in the Libertarian Party either but I AM a libertarian for sure and so is Ron Paul and in my opinion so is Gary Johnson. He may not be as pure as driven snow libertarian but I still consider him a libertarian.More importantly is that the establishment will see my vote for Johnson IS a vote for Ron Paul and it WILL be counted

*sighs* I'm not confusing the two. The discussion is about getting the L Party (big "L" by default there) matching funds and ballot access, and that being sufficient reason to hold one's nose and vote for someone one disagrees with.

Dogsoldier
10-28-2012, 12:26 PM
"YOUR party meaning the L party"----Registered republican here.

Much like Ron Paul I'm libertarian/republican. But party doesn't matter to me only the constitution.

"Your percentages are made up, imo"----ok lets say they are....Do you think Ron Paul agrees with Romney more then Gary Johnson?No way!...What are your percentages?

MelissaWV
10-28-2012, 12:29 PM
"YOUR party meaning the L party"----Registered republican here.

Much like Ron Paul I'm libertarian/republican. But party doesn't matter to me only the constitution.

"Your percentages are made up, imo"----ok lets say they are....Do you think Ron Paul agrees with Romney more then Gary Johnson?No way!...What are your percentages?

I have no idea why, when I say I will only vote for someone I actually agree with, the counterargument seems to boil down to "Well you must think Romney is better!"

No, I don't. I'm not voting for him. I'm not voting for Johnson. I'm not voting for Obama. I don't agree with any of them. I'm writing in Ron Paul while I vote on important local issues. Guess what? That's a valid choice in my view! :)

Dogsoldier
10-28-2012, 12:38 PM
I'm not arguing you think Romney is better I'm arguing that You would vote for Ron Paul but not vote vote the guy that Ron Paul himself will vote for.

Its not like RP will vote for Romney and you know he won't write in a name or just not vote.He WILL vote for GJ. We all should.

sailingaway
10-28-2012, 12:49 PM
I'm not arguing you think Romney is better I'm arguing that You would vote for Ron Paul but not vote vote the guy that Ron Paul himself will vote for.

Its not like RP will vote for Romney and you know he won't write in a name or just not vote.He WILL vote for GJ. We all should.

Ron Paul doesn't value himself as others do, he is too modest.

Also, in CA my vote for Ron Paul will be counted to HIM, in Texas his would be in the none of the above category, so he has a different decision to make.

Thirdly, you are sure he will vote for GJ, but I am not sure.

Fourthly, Ron Paul has every right to vote for whomever he wants, but he would be the last person in the world to say he dictates MY vote.

Gary Johnson doesn't represent me, Ron Paul does. And if I am going to vote for someone who isn't going to win, it is absolutely going to be for the candidate I actually want to have win.

but that is me.

Dogsoldier
10-28-2012, 01:11 PM
"Thirdly, you are sure he will vote for GJ, but I am not sure." So you think he might actually vote for Romney? Thats more or less what your saying.

I can guarantee he will put his vote to where he thinks it will do the most good for the liberty movement. He won't write in his own name thats for sure.

Yes it may be counted to HIM but not to anyone else. A guy could vote for his neighbor and yea that vote counts for HIM too.And ALOT of people will do that too which is part of the reason why a write in doesn't matter and is a waste of a vote.

MelissaWV
10-28-2012, 01:52 PM
"Thirdly, you are sure he will vote for GJ, but I am not sure." So you think he might actually vote for Romney? Thats more or less what your saying.

I can guarantee he will put his vote to where he thinks it will do the most good for the liberty movement. He won't write in his own name thats for sure.

Yes it may be counted to HIM but not to anyone else. A guy could vote for his neighbor and yea that vote counts for HIM too.And ALOT of people will do that too which is part of the reason why a write in doesn't matter and is a waste of a vote.

I think you completely missed what sailing said, for some reason. I am also laughing a little at the idea you are so sure Ron is voting for Gary because Gary is the third party candidate. Actually, there are 12 candidates on my ballot for president, and a write-in slot. Maybe he is voting for one of them. Maybe he won't vote for president at all, being disgusted with all of the choices. Maybe he will make a strategic decision and vote for Gary. Those are his decisions, though, and not mine.

What sailing was pointing out is that there are different write-in rules in different states. Sometimes write-ins are actually counted towards those individual candidates. Sometimes ALL of the write-ins are just pooled into a "none of the above" type pile.

I do not think of Ron as a god, so that I do everything based on what I think he is going to do. I am voting based on my own perception and knowledge.

Dogsoldier
10-28-2012, 03:29 PM
Well that is interesting. Thats weird there is only 4 on ours in missouri.

"I do not think of Ron as a god"----You sure vote like he is voting for him when he isn't even running...lol


"I am also laughing a little at the idea you are so sure Ron is voting for Gary because Gary is the third party candidate. Actually, there are 12 candidates on my ballot for president, and a write-in slot. Maybe he is voting for one of them. Maybe he won't vote for president at all, being disgusted with all of the choices."

Ok I'm listening.He WILL vote.He is kinda obligated to being a public official and he would be lynched if he didn't at least vote,I mean thats how he got his job to begin with. He is in the state of Texas so how many are on the ballot in Texas? And then which 1 best follows the constitution?

I mean this isn't really hard to figure out with the same voting record for 30 years its pretty easy to figure out which 1 he will vote for. The most constitutional.

Dogsoldier
10-28-2012, 03:32 PM
Now if every state had the same write in rules as cali and we all went with the write in option,then gets reported on the news all over the nation,a write in would be a smart move for the cause of liberty.

Qdog
10-28-2012, 04:38 PM
We gave working withing the Republican party a try. They screwed us. Maybe there are people here that dont want to see Johnson get 5% because they are Republicans first, and libertarians 2nd. Personally, I only registered as a Republican to vote for Ron. To those of you that want to keep working within the GOP, good luck and I wish you well.

Captain Shays
10-28-2012, 06:23 PM
I agree with what everyone said. It may seem like we're arguing and maybe we are but as family. At the end of the day we are family. We ALL got screwed the same way by the same people and those people lump us all in together. I'm totally with Dogsoldier. and I totally understand where Melissa is coming from and then I also stand with Qdog and Sailing. We're scattered. We're hurt. We're passionate and we love liberty. I'm not saying this to brag, but in my years of coming around here I have encountered some of the most well informed voters I have ever seen. When I go to other forums and listen to what many of my FB friends talk about you all blow them away as far as knowledge, insight, understanding and fortitude.
Where we go from here boils down to an individual choice. I too consider myself a libertarian/republican for lack of better labels and I had to change to Republican just to vote for Ron Paul in the primary like many of you did. But just like many of you, there is no way that I alaign myself with most of the present incarnation of the GOP. I mean maybe 10-20 at best and with those only on a few key issues and then they make me sick when they start talking tough about attacking other countries or supporting measures that rob us of our liberty or drive us into debt. The closest place that I can call a party home would be the Libertarian Party but even they turn me off lot the time. No person is perfect and no party is perfect.We just need to get as close as we can and hope for the best. Right now it seems to me that Gary Johnson is as close in this election that I can get and still have my vote count for something. A long time ago I totally lost faith in this two party crimocracy and the ONLY thing that gave me a glimmer of hope to change things was Ron Paul's efforts to change things from within the GOP. It clearly didn't work. It's all bullshit and now my life's mission is to subvert the SOB's until I go to the next life. If that means supporting the Libertarian Party then so be it. If it means compromising my principles in hoping that they take some of the monies that the two parties set aside then so be it. Maybe if or when we get a Libertarian elected he will have the balls to vote against those set asides. If they don't at least I know that on a host of other issues they would be light years ahead of either of the two party scumbags.

ShaganOverman
10-28-2012, 09:36 PM
Anyone who writes in RP instead of voting libertarian is infatuated more with the man than his message.

Look at videos where hes asked who he is going to vote for. Whenever the interviewer mentions gary johnsons name Ron gets a grin on his face. At heart RP is a libertarian.

sailingaway
10-28-2012, 09:41 PM
Anyone who writes in RP instead of voting libertarian is infatuated more with the man than his message.

Look at videos where hes asked who he is going to vote for. Whenever the interviewer mentions gary johnsons name Ron gets a grin on his face. At heart RP is a libertarian.

I'm for the person who would actually do it, and I am sure Ron would, given the chance, not so sure about GJ, at all. They overlap in an ad hoc manner, but GJ doesn't seem to derive positions from logic and principles, and morals. Since neither will win, I will vote for the one I want. I see no sane reason to vote for someone I DON'T want.

ShaganOverman
10-28-2012, 11:50 PM
Its not about winning. Its about 5%. How about helping the rest of the liberty movement make progress. While your at it maybe quit it with the draconian forums moderating.

specsaregood
10-28-2012, 11:53 PM
Its not about winning. Its about 5%. How about helping the rest of the liberty movement make progress. While your at it maybe quit it with the draconian forums moderating.

but, I dont want to send the message that the LP should continue nominating fascists like Johnson. voting for johnson sends that message.

sailingaway
10-29-2012, 07:49 AM
for just me, personally, I saw this and the prior presidential candidate the LP pushed and wonder why they chose the name 'Party of Principles', but then, maybe those who chose that name are all dead now. If not, telling the LP to go back to its roots in candidates is also a worthwhile message, to me. At that point, 5% might come easier.

Captain Shays
10-29-2012, 08:19 AM
I'm for the person who would actually do it, and I am sure Ron would, given the chance, not so sure about GJ, at all. They overlap in an ad hoc manner, but GJ doesn't seem to derive positions from logic and principles, and morals. Since neither will win, I will vote for the one I want. I see no sane reason to vote for someone I DON'T want.
I don't agree with that even a little bit. I was turned on to Gary Johnson before I was Ron Paul. Gary Johnson while he was still governor wrote some fantastic articles and made some amazingly libertarian speeches. Ron Paul stole my heart thats for sure but I think it's a ridiculous statement to say Johnso doesn't have principles. There is no way he could have done what he did without principles and fortitude. Granted he may not be pure as the driven snow libertarian according to some purist views but he's the best we have who is ballot qualified.

specsaregood
10-29-2012, 08:33 AM
but he's the best we have who is ballot qualified.

Pfft, vote for jeff boss on your NJ ballot. Thats the best way to give them the finger that I can think of.

RonPaul101.com
10-29-2012, 09:11 AM
but, I dont want to send the message that the LP should continue nominating fascists like Johnson. voting for johnson sends that message.

Gary Johnson a fascist? Now that's a stretch, and certainly not very polite, nor accurate. How do Liberty minded people think we will ever convert Obama supporters or Santorum supporters come 2016 if we can't even be accepting of Gov Johnson's supporters? It would be like saying 'I could vote for either Liberty minded candidate RP or GJ, I think I'll pick Johnson because at least he's not elderly.' How would that division help resolve anything? They're on the same side of the fight as are we, and I for one believe it is a well planned mission.

Think about it, the Paul(s) side (GOP side) continues to make strides to change the party for the better during the primaries, while the Libertarian party (this time GJ) fights to ensure that no Republican gets elected President in the general election until it's one of our Liberty minded candidates. I think this move of punishing GOP candidates will work in the long term. The establishment money controls a lot (media, primary elections to some extent, etc.) but if the GOP voters know that time and time again they will not win the Presidency unless they get us on baord, I feel eventually we may have a chance - maybe with Rand.

specsaregood
10-29-2012, 09:14 AM
Gary Johnson a fascist? Now that's a stretch, and certainly not very polite, nor accurate.
I disagree. I thought it was polite and accurate. I think his CBA approach is just fascism under a different guise, its the wrong path and I don't support it one little bit. And i've never been accused of being a libertarian purist either.

Paulfan05
10-29-2012, 10:44 AM
This seems pointless, I wish we all could have rallied for Johnson, maybe he could have made the debates then

sailingaway
10-29-2012, 11:00 AM
This seems pointless, I wish we all could have rallied for Johnson, maybe he could have made the debates then

Gary Johnson seems a lot more pointless to some of us than Ron Paul but we don't run around badgering his supporters in their forums with that statement.

sailingaway
10-29-2012, 11:16 AM
I don't agree with that even a little bit. I was turned on to Gary Johnson before I was Ron Paul. Gary Johnson while he was still governor wrote some fantastic articles and made some amazingly libertarian speeches. Ron Paul stole my heart thats for sure but I think it's a ridiculous statement to say Johnso doesn't have principles. There is no way he could have done what he did without principles and fortitude. Granted he may not be pure as the driven snow libertarian according to some purist views but he's the best we have who is ballot qualified.

He may have some principles but in a more isolated place, fiscal conservatism, for example, but not a principled, integrated, worldview he consistently reasons from, as Ron does, is what I meant, not that he hadn't a principle to his name, anywhere.

Nathan Hale
10-29-2012, 07:51 PM
I'll be voting for Gary Johnson. Not only do I support him for his platform and his resume, but I support the Libertarian Party's quest for ballot access.

Dianne
10-29-2012, 09:35 PM
Doug Wead convinced me to vote for Gary Johnson instead of writing in Ron Paul. My main concerns are that
#1 My write in vote won't be counted
#2 The Libertarian Party will lose it's status on my ballot

I'm pretty much convinced that a vote for Gary Johnson will be in the minds of the GOP loyalists a vote for Ron Paul. They believe that we're going for Johnson in place of Ron Paul and I WANT them to KNOW without a doubt that they pushed me away from voting for a GOP candidate. I want it to resonate in their minds. I want it to marinate until 2016

Same here, I didn't not vote vote for the DNC/GOP dual parties... I did vote for Gary Johnson.

RickPerryLost
10-29-2012, 09:59 PM
Same here, I didn't not vote vote for the DNC/GOP dual parties... I did vote for Gary Johnson.

At least making sure the protest vote is counted in some fashion.

Captain Shays
10-30-2012, 08:15 AM
Of course people can vote how they want, and should vote their conscience. I'm sure over 100 people in the nation will write-in "God", and maybe 20-30 people will write-in "Eli Manning", and some 10,000 may write-in Ron Paul (none of which are candidates for President this Tuesday.)

I think certain people miss the point with this discussion between write-in RP and vote GJ. My understanding is it's merely a discussion and no one is trying to take away someone's right to vote how they see fit. We are all on the same side of fighting the twin party system, we just seem to have different approaches. Some want to vote their conscience regardless and others believe it's going to be a results oriented election.

We shouldn't forget we're the same army fighting on the same side, and this discussion is about attacking our opposition from one side versus attacking from another and like it or not it's a discussion worth having for the benefit of our fight. Why some folks are lashing out against discussing these points is a little unclear (is it that big of a deal where the discussion takes place?) While campaigning in the primary I notice when a Gingrich or Santorum supporter told me "you have no right to ask me that, or I don't have to answer to that" it meant they knew it was plausible that they were wrong, or at the very least ashamed of their point of view.

So I welcome those who want to say "we're writing-in RP because I want to honor the man" or "because I met him on the campaign trail and I promised him I would, etc.,. those replies would be fine. It's the replies of "how dare you mention another candidate in this thread..." those stances have me concerned for our army and our fight. For those afraid of having the discussion, look in the mirror before voting and make sure you are voting your conscience.

Since I may still be offending "the protocol" of this thread and that is not my intention, I will go start my own thread for discussion. Hopefully folks can freely voice their opinions on the best course of action for Tuesday's vote.

you need to spread some reps around before giving it to this person again but at least I say I agree with every word

Nathan Hale
10-30-2012, 09:01 PM
//screw it, I'm sick of fighting