Is anyone angry at you for the fact you're not voting for Romney/Obama? [Archive]

acptulsa

10-23-2012, 05:39 AM

That's easy to fix.

'Show me one time during the debates when either one promised less arrogance overseas and more peace. Just one. And I'll vote for the guy who promised it. Show me one time, just one, during the debates when either one promised me money that doesn't shrink like wool in a hot dryer, and I'll vote for the guy. You want my vote for your guy, earn it. Either way, you got it. Show me.'

'I'm not supporting murder, I'm sick of war trashing the economy and I know this nation may never recover if we don't go for peace and prosperity now, I won't be a party to the shrinking dollar robbing the Greatest Generation of their savings. I won't be a party to it. I won't be an accessory to robbery and murder. Period. If you want to kill and steal by proxy, that's between you and God. If you want my vote, show me how your lesser evil isn't evil at all. If you can.'

Shuts 'em right up. Sometimes it even causes them to do some research. One in fifty even gets an open mind out of the deal...

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

10-23-2012, 06:28 AM

Is anyone angry at you for the fact you're not voting for Romney/Obama?

lol. Find a few points to school them on and they'll know not to mess with you - acptulsa made good suggestions. I like to talk about the federal reserve, deficit spending, and why it allows spending and wars we would not otherwise tolerate.

And they aren't really angry at you. They're angry at the state of the country and the world. Unfortunately, they lack the critical thinking skills, or time, or attention to see what is really going on around them. So they think they're making a small difference by voting... that they're trying to help while you are not, when it's really the opposite.

I'm working on trying to limit my discussions with such people, both online and off. They can be mad all they want. If they're upset now, wait until they're standing in food lines.

torchbearer

10-23-2012, 06:42 AM

Yup. But i told them i don't have a high opinion for people who vote for progressives like obama and mitt.

TonySutton

10-23-2012, 06:44 AM

All of my friends know I am sold on Liberty. They don't dare bring up the subject because they are too scared to listen to the truth.

georgiaboy

10-23-2012, 06:47 AM

ha, yeah, my easy answer - I don't vote for liberals.

Todd

10-23-2012, 06:54 AM

Yep. Mother in law blocked me from her email because of it.
:rolleyes:

fisharmor

10-23-2012, 07:00 AM

It happened last weekend. Guy asked me what was it about Rmoney that made me not want to vote for him.

"First off: Four letters. N.D.A.A. He said he would sign it. He's in favor of guys in black pajamas putting a bag over MY head, or YOUR head, and hauling us off to rot in a prison for the rest of our lives, without even bringing charges. And I am simply not cool with that, so sorry, he's not getting my vote.
Secondly: guns. Obama only said he would ban guns. Rmoney actually did ban guns."

I could go on, but that made him change the topic to how bad things will be under Obama.
I then took the time to tell him that things are already bad. Tell him things he didn't know, like how many Sunday School teachers and deaf grandmothers are getting blown away by cops in our very commonwealth.

However, I'm really looking forward to facing off with my father-in-law and his dipshit wife about this.
After I explain all of that stuff, I'm going to explain that you don't get to outright cheat, change rules, break laws, and openly disrespect a candidate whom I support who has shown you nothing but the utmost respect when you deserve nothing but spit in your eye, and then expect that the Oboogeyman is going to scare me into voting for you.
Rmoney showed us all his true character during the RNC.
I would literally rather vote for a child molesting pimp.

CaptLouAlbano

10-23-2012, 07:05 AM

People vote for a variety of reasons, some of them pragmatic and some of them principled. Those who make the decision to not vote for one of the two major candidates are likely doing so for principled reasons - and there is nothing wrong with that. On the same note, those that choose to vote for Romney or Obama could very well be doing it for pragmatic purposes, and likewise there is nothing wrong with that.

The issue libertarians have at times is that they come off as elitists when they espouse that their principled vote is the only right way to vote, and that anyone who votes for a pragmatic reason is uninformed, stupid, brainwashed, etc. By doing so they then lose their effectiveness when trying to communicate their views in the future.

Barrex

10-23-2012, 07:05 AM

Yep. Mother in law blocked me from her email because of it.
:rolleyes:

You lucky bastard.

Elwar

10-23-2012, 07:25 AM

I have one co-worker who refers to me as an Obama supporter.

Mainly because I brought up my sig.

asurfaholic

10-23-2012, 07:54 AM

No. I hear all the usual ramblings, cant have 4 years of obummer,, but generally people listen with interest when i speak, and the respect flows both ways.

I dont jam my beliefs down anyone's throats.

Athan

10-23-2012, 08:00 AM

I'm going to explain that you don't get to outright cheat, change rules, break laws, and openly disrespect a candidate whom I support who has shown you nothing but the utmost respect when you deserve nothing but spit in your eye, and then expect that the Oboogeyman is going to scare me into voting for you.
Rmoney showed us all his true character during the RNC.
I would literally rather vote for a child molesting pimp.
I wouldn't go that far, I would simply not vote for Romney LIKE I wouldn't give a vote for a Sandusky.

chudrockz

10-23-2012, 08:15 AM

I get it all the time mostly from "conservative" relatives and aquaintances, saying stuff like "a vote for anyone other than Romney is a vote for Obama!" and such utterly illogical nonsense. Hell with 'em. Vote for dictator A, or vote for dictator B, you deserve whatcha get.

EBounding

10-23-2012, 08:19 AM

lol yes. My parents yell at me saying Obama is a Marxist who hates this country. While that may be true, Romney's record and policies are still largely the same. They trust Romney and I don't. You don't get negative votes though. No matter what, you are voting FOR someone. Neither candidate deserves to be rewarded with my vote. Oh well.

thoughtomator

10-23-2012, 08:20 AM

I've had people tell me I was "wasting my vote", but I could tell their hearts weren't in it. I'm a pretty tough person to budge once I've decided on a course of action.

fr33

10-23-2012, 08:35 AM

They ususually get over it when I point out that my vote here in Texas won't make any difference in the outcome.

VanBummel

10-23-2012, 08:39 AM

"If you don't vote for one of the main two, you're wasting your vote!"
"If you don't vote for one of the main two, you have no right to complain!"

Pisses me off...

georgiaboy

10-23-2012, 09:04 AM

if you vote for one of the main two, everything stays the same.
if you vote protest, we can get somewhere new.

ShaneEnochs

10-23-2012, 09:08 AM

Most people I encounter are either willfully ignorant of their candidate's faults or so "patriotic" toward their party that they're absolutely blinded by it. It's taken quite a while, but I've finally learned that there is no reasoning with these people. You can't make someone who has blindfolded themselves see the light.

ClydeCoulter

10-23-2012, 09:08 AM

"If you don't vote for one of the main two, you're wasting your vote!"
"If you don't vote for one of the main two, you have no right to complain!"

Pisses me off...

Voting for them gives you the right to complain about them? I know, some logic...

jbauer

10-23-2012, 09:12 AM

Really got into it with my pastor. ESSPECIALLY after he saw my Ron Paul Revolution with a Gary Johnson bumpersticker. He gave me the whole "a vote for Johnson is a vote for Obama" line. I told him no its not, its a vote for Johnson (obviously my Paul surogate). I then proceded to tell him that (he knows this) that I'm a fiscal conservative. We have $16T in debt and are set to go to +$20T regardless of who's elected. There isn't any social issue that will hold any water if we're in a financial crissis.

He after about an hour is still convinced that Obama is going to steal our babys and eat them but atleast wasn't p!ssed at me for not going along to get along.

DGambler

10-23-2012, 09:21 AM

I tell them if they don't want me lecturing them on how they have sold their soul for a little safety, then they are not allowed to lecture me on their opinion of the lesser of two evils.

If they press me, I then ask them to simply state the 5 things they are going to hold Romney accountable for... guess what.... NO ONE HAS BEEN ABLE TO TELL ME!!!!... I then ask them, if you can't tell me 5 things he's going to do that you are going to hold him accountable for, then why should I vote for him....

The conversation typically goes downhill pretty quickly from there.

XTreat

10-23-2012, 09:26 AM

I have been called a traitor more than once.

donnay

10-23-2012, 09:40 AM

I try not to argue over candidates as much as I try to show people that democracy, like Thomas Jefferson said is, 'mob rule.' I explain to them, if they continue to hold these false values that sooner or later this democracy, of which they so fervently support, will make them slaves. Independence and Independent ideas is what started this country. The uniqueness of independence is that everyone is a leader, rather than a follower. I also point out to them all the leaders who centralized their power to get rid of those who were independent, throughout history. In short, people need history lessons.

FindLiberty

10-23-2012, 09:57 AM

Yes, they get pissed at me. I love it.

Two more weeks left to proclaim my vote for Gary Johnson ...pissing more and more of the "two party", "it's a close race", and "this is an important election" people off at every opportunity.

It's great that they eventually respond by just leaving me alone and not speaking to me! Win - win!

Brian4Liberty

10-23-2012, 10:05 AM

They ususually get over it when I point out that my vote here in Texas won't make any difference in the outcome.

And a vote for Romney matters even less in California.

FindLiberty

10-23-2012, 10:07 AM

“Democracy ... soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.”
—John Adams

“Democracy is the most vile form of government...”
—James Madison

“Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.”
—Thomas Jefferson

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, and from dependence back again to bondage.

oyarde

10-23-2012, 11:14 AM

No , I do not tell anyone except you guys.

coastie

10-23-2012, 11:22 AM

Yep-ALL of my in-laws. Fuck 'em anyway, I've never really liked them to begin with.:p

Their whole attitude about this just confirms the character/integrity flaws they have. They were all on board for Ron Paul early on....then(as I predicted to them, and they vehemently denied at the time), they would all fall in line behind WHOEVER had the big R in front of their name in the end. Too predictable. When I point that out, boy they get pissed,lol.

The last gathering we had, I asked them why they weren't voting for Obama, because he's taken all of Bush's policies and injected them with anabolic steroids, and asked them what policies of Bush's were stopped? They all love war, but only if it's there guys war, I guess.

Fucking idiots, I swear.

<crickets>..............................."But, we gotta get Obama out!!!!!"

jay_dub

10-23-2012, 11:26 AM

My brother was a 'soft' RP supporter, but went for Romney when he got the nomination. He's now completely in the Romney bubble.

Last time I talked to him, he hung up on me while discussing Fox's spin on Romney's 47% remarks. That was a month ago.

I'm waiting until after the election to call him again.

puppetmaster

10-23-2012, 12:20 PM

yea a biz partner says I have to vote mitt.....lol I said NEVER

Spikender

10-23-2012, 12:26 PM

My father most definitely. He is so far in the tank for Mitt it's ridiculous; he won't even admit that the guy has any flaws. I find it funny that my father once supported Herman Cain so hard and kept hammering Romney. Now that Romney is the Republican's chosen prize pig, it seems that Mitt Romney is suddenly perfect in his eyes.

And a few of my friends liked Ron Paul, but now they're starting to get into the Romney bubble of no return. A few others still like Ron Paul or don't like either candidate, and I can have good conversations with them most of the time. I just wish I could start a dialogue with some of the people in my life that are for Romney or Obama and open their eyes to the fact that they're practically the same candidate, not to mention that Romney is a flip-flopping robot and Obama is a person who made promises and didn't fulfill a single one of them.

jbauer

10-23-2012, 01:09 PM

Travlyr

10-23-2012, 01:15 PM

In fairness if they listen to fox news or whatever AM talk station they have all they're going to hear is 24/7/365 indoctrination.

It is sickening what Fox News and Clear Channel Radio is doing to the conservatives. Paybacks are a bitch. When "September Morn" comes out, if it is the blockbuster I hope it is, Fox News, and much of MSM goes into snooze mode. They will be eviscerated. I can hope.

Jingles

10-23-2012, 01:27 PM

My grandfather isn't mad at me, but he is still supporting Romney. At first when we talk about politics he goes into a bunch of Fox talking points I have to get out of him, and then I slowly talk to those away explaining how there is no difference between Obama and Romney, and everything. He ends up agreeing and then denounces the foreign policy of both of them, explains how he wants the entire government out of everyone's lives, talks about property rights, etc...

I don't get my grandfather, he agrees with me on everything when I get him away from Fox news for a bit and talk logically. I think I just need to get him to cancel his cable and get him a netflix account and he'd be right beside us all the time.

acptulsa

10-23-2012, 01:32 PM

I aimed both of these at people who have good conservative values, but don't know what to do with them...

http://i.imgur.com/OskYdl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/5KLV2l.jpg

Lucille

10-23-2012, 02:02 PM

Of course, but I'm madder at them for voting for the Corporatist Welfare-Warfare-Police Statists George W. Obamney (Bank Party-USA).

heavenlyboy34

10-23-2012, 02:07 PM

Yup. But I generally avoid talking politics in mixed company unless there's a really good reason to. I got sick of pointless arguments and being called names long ago. It's staggering how many fallacies a statist can fit into one conversation. :eek:

Spikender

10-23-2012, 02:12 PM

In fairness if they listen to fox news or whatever AM talk station they have all they're going to hear is 24/7/365 indoctrination.

Nail meet hammer. Yes, most of them watch Fox News and listen to Limbaugh and Hannity on the radio, lapping up whatever they say and then spewing it out whenever I confront them on an issue or their favored candidate Mitt Romney. It's honestly tiring, but I hope one day I can find a way to unhook them from Fox News and AM radio and get them to actually listen to me, or at least take a look at the candidates and what they really stand for.

Anti Federalist

10-23-2012, 02:28 PM

O-Bomb-ya says he will ban guns.

Mandate Mitt has banned guns.

I don't vote for gun banners.

Period.

No One But Paul

nobody's_hero

10-23-2012, 02:32 PM

Well, yes.

But I usually remind them that until 2008 I never voted so, hypothetically, if I were to quit voting, they haven't really lost anything. We just go back to the way things were. Then they get angry and nervous because they know they need all the votes they can get.

These are usually people who think their choice for president is entitled to your vote. Funny, coming from republicans who supposedly oppose entitlements.

bunklocoempire

10-23-2012, 02:38 PM

Is anyone angry at you for the fact you're not voting for Romney/Obama?

Yes. And like others have mentioned, always repeating the msm. Why watch Fox/Msnbc when you encounter parrots saying the same thing?

Outrage, false pride and fear 24-7.

Folks love being emotional, it excuses them from thinking or bringing any kind of accountability to themselves or those they cheer for.

Human nature -keep that conscience dull so you don't have to make any changes.

Those angry at me (both camps) still refuse to give me an example of how rewarding bad behavior changes bad behavior, or how force is more moral than love.

nobody's_hero

10-23-2012, 02:39 PM

I don't get my grandfather, he agrees with me on everything when I get him away from Fox news for a bit and talk logically. I think I just need to get him to cancel his cable and get him a netflix account and he'd be right beside us all the time.

You and I must have the same grandpa. Mine went to see that "2016" movie about Obama and yeah I have to sit through an initial commentary filled with talking points. Apparently Obama has gutted the military budget beyond effectiveness. My grandpa is ex-Navy, so I think that plays a part in his perception of what a healthy military budget should be.

But I usually come back with arguments about the boost our economy would get if they'd shut down foreign bases and bring the troops home and spend their money here (like Ron Paul said many times on the campaign trail). They wouldn't have to lay-off (discharge) servicemembers but they could end corporate welfare for contractors who work on our bases in countries where we subsidize their national defense.

That argument usually works but then I leave his house and he starts watching Fox News again and I have to start all over the next time I see him. :toady::toady::toady:

acptulsa

10-23-2012, 02:48 PM

It's honestly tiring, but I hope one day I can find a way to unhook them from Fox News and AM radio and get them to actually listen to me, or at least take a look at the candidates and what they really stand for.

I think we have the right tool for that job. Ron Paul could have beaten Obama. With ease. We had a conservative with the courage of his convictions and real, demonstrable integrity, and we had lots and lots of independent voters (and more than a few liberals) very interested in voting for him--often merely on our assurance that he believed in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments and would not stand in the way of state-level socialism. And Murdoch's Fox flat told them not to vote for him.

Murdoch's Fox is clearly not about conservatism. When they see it, they try to kill it. Give them a moderate you can't tell from the Democrat, and they'll sell him all day long.

They have made this just obvious enough that, with enough repetition, I think we can make the dittoheads see it.

AngryCanadian

10-23-2012, 03:24 PM

"If you don't vote for one of the main two, you're wasting your vote!"
"If you don't vote for one of the main two, you have no right to complain!"

Pisses me off...

What nonsense and yeah you can just tell them those main two are all the same and both wont fix anything :rolleyes: I cant believe people still have the mentally of a sheep.

COpatriot

10-23-2012, 03:56 PM

I don't discuss politics very much outside of here simply to avoid the exchanges described here. My parents know where I stand and my mom in particular has been on a warpath to get me to vote for Romney. And it's the same "a vote for anyone but Romney is a vote for Obama" line. I live in Colorado Springs which is in El Paso County. Probably the reddest county in the country. And with the background I came from, I know very few Obama supporters. My Facebook feed is constantly flooded with the same Fox News/Limbaugh/Hannity crap. As far as I know, I have all of my extended family and my local friends and the people I work with thinking I'm on board for Romney when I'm voting for Johnson. And I do not talk politics on Facebook. Period. I would never degrade myself like that.

satchelmcqueen

10-23-2012, 05:54 PM

i get it all the time. ive still got the big ron paul on back of jeep. people are like wtf?? im like truth bomb! theyre like urrrrggg!!! im like go be ignorant some more mf!

Jingles

10-23-2012, 09:14 PM

You and I must have the same grandpa. Mine went to see that "2016" movie about Obama and yeah I have to sit through an initial commentary filled with talking points. Apparently Obama has gutted the military budget beyond effectiveness. My grandpa is ex-Navy, so I think that plays a part in his perception of what a healthy military budget should be.

But I usually come back with arguments about the boost our economy would get if they'd shut down foreign bases and bring the troops home and spend their money here (like Ron Paul said many times on the campaign trail). They wouldn't have to lay-off (discharge) servicemembers but they could end corporate welfare for contractors who work on our bases in countries where we subsidize their national defense.

That argument usually works but then I leave his house and he starts watching Fox News again and I have to start all over the next time I see him. :toady::toady::toady:

Not really, my grandfather as always been more of a Blue-dog democrat. My grandfather has been largely anti-war for as long as I can remember until some fox news propaganda. His view on Israel vs. Palestine in my childhood was (they have been fighting over this land for thousands of years how the hell is this our business). He states the Glenn Beck talking points then realizes he is talking nonsense. Then acknowledges it. My grandfather is libertarian as hell he just can't connect the dots.

WesSeid

10-23-2012, 10:22 PM

Is anyone angry at you for the fact you're not voting for Romney/Obama?
I have a growing list of people who try to lecture me like I'm a 12 year old about how my vote won't matter if I write in Ron Paul and a vote for Ron Paul is a vote for Obama, and how I'm a conspiracy theorist and love terrorists, blablablabla.
Well, I'm mad at you for going Paul over Johnson since 5% for Johnson will be a big deal in bringing down the two-party system. :D

Anyway, yes, some people are angry at me for not voting for Robomney, and all I can say about that is their tears will taste so sweet when at least half of them will have their candidate lose. mmmmm... your tears are so yummy and sweet... mmmm....

RickyJ

10-23-2012, 10:29 PM

Possibly, but I don't care.

I am the one that is angry that they are voting for Romney and Obama!

acptulsa

10-23-2012, 10:31 PM

Rupert Murdoch, the liberal Australian, engineered this whole fiasco from start to finish. And he intended from the start a couple of years ago to put the blame on us in the end.

If we let him get away with it, we're sorry sacks of $#!+.

I say we can't fix stupid...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?391511-We-CAN-T-FIX-STUPID!

...but we can. Repeat after me: We told you so!

liberty2897

10-23-2012, 11:39 PM

I don't really care if someone thinks writing-in Ron Paul is a wasted vote or vote for the more of two evils or whatever. I already dropped my ballot in the box two days ago! It is a done deal. I would ask these people how many hours they spend per day researching what is going on around them? I would also point out that the popular vote doesn't really elect a president anyway. Ask them if they participated in the primary process? That will probably shut most of them up.

What DOES piss me off is when somebody starts calling me unpatriotic or anti-american for my decision to detach myself from the statist mentality. I DO get pissed off if they go beyond a simple "your wasting your vote" and start to lecture. Not that it really matters anyway. In the long run, I'm thinking it will probably be more productive to avoid these stupid conversations with people that happen every cycle and just focus on talking logically about current events and issues.... throw the words libertarian and statist in every once in a while.

bunklocoempire

10-24-2012, 02:29 AM

All of my friends know I am sold on Liberty. They don't dare bring up the subject because they are too scared to listen to the truth.

You're not doing it right if nobody is throwing rocks at you! Mingle with the ignorant! ;)

(+ rep for holding the line! :D)

kathy88

10-24-2012, 04:50 AM

i get it all the time. ive still got the big ron paul on back of jeep. people are like wtf?? im like truth bomb! theyre like urrrrggg!!! im like go be ignorant some more mf!

I see you're back :)

2young2vote

10-24-2012, 06:37 AM

Yeah, and its usually republicans. I just say "I cannot, in good conscience, vote for a pro-abortion liberal socialist like Mitt Romney." That usually shuts them up.

Chester Copperpot

10-24-2012, 06:49 AM

Most of my friends are Romney supporters...

I tell them that Mitt still has time to earn my vote.

Ive even enlarged the sphere of action that Mitt can do, to earn my vote and probably most of our votes:

- Legalize silver or gold money

- Vow to VETO ANY and EVERY unbalanced budget

- Close down useless departments like Dept of Ed, Commerce, Transportation, Energy, etc.

Because as president Mitt can do any and all of these. He must feel he doesnt need our vote... It really comes down to We the people versus the big banks who back him and who abhor any of the above ideas.

I then ask the question, "Why hasnt he done any of this?"

acptulsa

10-24-2012, 06:51 AM

Yeah, and its usually republicans. I just say "I cannot, in good conscience, vote for a pro-abortion liberal socialist like Mitt Romney." That usually shuts them up.

You want me to vote against Obama. But you refuse to give me someone to vote for.

You stand for nothing, now you're falling for anything. I will not make that mistake.

CaptUSA

10-24-2012, 07:03 AM

My friends don't even try. On both sides, they know they can't argue FOR their candidate; only against the other one. As soon as I tell them that's not a reason to vote FOR their guy, they give. I tell them both that I agree that I won't be voting for the other guy either, because you're right, he does suck. But you're guy is the exact same!

Philhelm

10-24-2012, 07:38 AM

XTreat

10-24-2012, 08:00 AM

You and I must have the same grandpa. Mine went to see that "2016" movie about Obama and yeah I have to sit through an initial commentary filled with talking points. Apparently Obama has gutted the military budget beyond effectiveness. My grandpa is ex-Navy, so I think that plays a part in his perception of what a healthy military budget should be.

But I usually come back with arguments about the boost our economy would get if they'd shut down foreign bases and bring the troops home and spend their money here (like Ron Paul said many times on the campaign trail). They wouldn't have to lay-off (discharge) servicemembers but they could end corporate welfare for contractors who work on our bases in countries where we subsidize their national defense.

That argument usually works but then I leave his house and he starts watching Fox News again and I have to start all over the next time I see him. :toady::toady::toady:

yep, my dad voted for RP but is a Fox News junkie. I have to debrainwash him everytime I see him.

acptulsa

10-24-2012, 08:05 AM

yep, my dad voted for RP but is a Fox News junkie. I have to debrainwash him everytime I see him.

Rupert Murdoch is Public Enemy Number One. If he has his way, there won't be a single conservative left in the country. We'd be left with only 'DeMint "Conservatives"'.

And oxymoronic morons.

belian78

10-24-2012, 08:07 AM

All of my friends know I am sold on Liberty. They don't dare bring up the subject because they are too scared to listen to the truth.
This is what I experience as well. People won't even start to get into conversations with me about politics or monetary policy or anything of the sort because they know they won't understand half of what I'm saying.

Philhelm

10-24-2012, 08:13 AM

This is what I experience as well. People won't even start to get into conversations with me about politics or monetary policy or anything of the sort because they know they won't understand half of what I'm saying.

Then that's a failure on your part, and I suspect a failure for most of us. We need to package things the proper way and make sure that we keep the intended audience in consideration. For instance, when speaking to the archetypical Republican, rather than railing against the TSA in general, get the ball rolling by saying that it's silly that U.S. soldiers in uniform should be checked by TSA.

belian78

10-24-2012, 08:46 AM

Then that's a failure on your part, and I suspect a failure for most of us. We need to package things the proper way and make sure that we keep the intended audience in consideration. For instance, when speaking to the archetypical Republican, rather than railing against the TSA in general, get the ball rolling by saying that it's silly that U.S. soldiers in uniform should be checked by TSA.
How is it a failure for me? How is me beating my head against the proverbial wall for more than 8 years now, trying to explain to family/friends/coworkers in everyway I can think of, my failure? How is the fact that 90% of people are so willfully ignorant they would rather get mad at me for trying to educate them, my failure? I"m sorry but fuck you.

*addition* I realize that's a heated response, but that's got to be the ultimate slap in the face, to work as hard as I have for as long as I have to have someone call me a failure.

WesSeid

10-24-2012, 09:18 AM

belian78

10-24-2012, 09:31 AM

He didn't call you a failure. He said your communication of liberty ideas to those people is a failure. ...And it obviously is if people avoid conversations with you entirely.
Did I say people avoid conversations with me entirely? No, I said that they avoid getting into conversations about politics with me. This is because I don't follow the John Stewart/Bill Oreily talking points.

VoluntaryAmerican

10-24-2012, 09:44 AM

*addition* I realize that's a heated response, but that's got to be the ultimate slap in the face, to work as hard as I have for as long as I have to have someone call me a failure.

No patriot who tries his hardest is a failure in my book. However, cowards who never stand up for their beliefs and sellouts are failures.

But like Phillhelm said, we can all improve on persuasive argument.

Travlyr

10-24-2012, 09:48 AM

Did I say people avoid conversations with me entirely? No, I said that they avoid getting into conversations about politics with me. This is because I don't follow the John Stewart/Bill Oreily talking points.

The propaganda machine starts at age 3 with TV, continues with K - 12, moves on through the Ph.D., or military service, Hollywood, Media, and the churches. I say nice work belian78. Some people simply will not take the initiative to deprogram and it is not your job to do their deprograming for them. Nice work indeed.

Philhelm

10-24-2012, 09:50 AM

How is it a failure for me? How is me beating my head against the proverbial wall for more than 8 years now, trying to explain to family/friends/coworkers in everyway I can think of, my failure? How is the fact that 90% of people are so willfully ignorant they would rather get mad at me for trying to educate them, my failure? I"m sorry but fuck you.

*addition* I realize that's a heated response, but that's got to be the ultimate slap in the face, to work as hard as I have for as long as I have to have someone call me a failure.

My comment wasn't an attack on you. Furthermore, I'd include most, if not all of us, in my assessment. If we are alienating people from even discussing political ideas with us, then that is not success. Yes, most people are willfully ignorant, but there must be a way to bridge the gap. The responsibility is on us, no matter how foolish the others may be, as we are the ones who are truly aware of the situation within this nation. Judging from your initial post, you have not found that method and neither have I, or most of us here from what I have read.

The most frustrating example for myself is when I finally got my mother to say that she was going to vote for Ron Paul during the primary. But then my father convinced her at the last minute to vote for Romney since Paul "wouldn't be able to beat Obama." I did not succeed; ergo, I failed. It's a hard truth.

belian78

10-24-2012, 09:52 AM

Philhelm

10-24-2012, 10:03 AM

The propaganda machine starts at age 3 with TV, continues with K - 12, moves on through the Ph.D., or military service, Hollywood, Media, and the churches. I say nice work belian78. Some people simply will not take the initiative to deprogram and it is not your job to do their deprograming for them. Nice work indeed.

I disagree. I think that we do have a responsibility, like it or not. If we have knowledge of something that others do not, then I believe there is a duty to share that knowledge. In simplistic terms, if we are all on a leaking ship that will sink in the near future, and I am the only person to possess this knowledge, do I not have a duty to inform others? Those that discover that knowledge would no longer be ignorant. Those that refused to believe me, despite their willful ignorance, could still be saved, along with the rest of us. At the very least, in such a scenario I would like to save myself, but need others to do so.

We are on that sinking ship.

WesSeid

10-24-2012, 06:21 PM

Did I say people avoid conversations with me entirely? No, I said that they avoid getting into conversations about politics with me. This is because I don't follow the John Stewart/Bill Oreily talking points.

That's just nitpicking. Of course he and I were talking about politics.

"People won't even start to get into conversations with me about politics or monetary policy or anything of the sort"
"Then that's a failure on your part, and I suspect a failure for most of us. We need to package things the proper way and make sure that we keep the intended audience in consideration."
"How is it a failure for me? ...but that's got to be the ultimate slap in the face, to work as hard as I have for as long as I have to have someone call me a failure."

Dianne

10-24-2012, 06:32 PM

I went to early vote this morning, and a black lady approached me asking with the kindest eyes ... "I hope you are going to vote for our President" ... I told her "No" ... but I'm not voting for Romney either.. then I was engulfed by three Romney supporters... and it was a bit uncomfortable ... My daughter voted for the first time at age 19, I voted... we both voted for Gary Johnson as we pulled out of the parking lot with our Ron Paul stickers.

I will never vote GOP again, after the chit they put us and our hard work, delegates through... GOP can kiss my ass.... not to mention the DNC, which was the party my heart really belonged to for years, before they gave us this doped up assassin, and his criminal enablers... F both parties.

AuH20

10-24-2012, 06:41 PM

I was going to vote for Gary Johnson until I saw his internal campaign expenses. :( I guess it will be some other 3rd party candidate.

Philhelm

10-25-2012, 08:53 AM

Thank you, it's nice to not be torn down by the people you consider on your side. lol

Sorry. It was not my intent to tear you down.

Travlyr

10-25-2012, 09:05 AM

I disagree. I think that we do have a responsibility, like it or not. If we have knowledge of something that others do not, then I believe there is a duty to share that knowledge. In simplistic terms, if we are all on a leaking ship that will sink in the near future, and I am the only person to possess this knowledge, do I not have a duty to inform others? Those that discover that knowledge would no longer be ignorant. Those that refused to believe me, despite their willful ignorance, could still be saved, along with the rest of us. At the very least, in such a scenario I would like to save myself, but need others to do so.

We are on that sinking ship.

The media is still too powerful right now. Until the TV tells people the facts about world trade center towers being explosively demolished, then whoever believes that is just a conspiracy theorist. Until the TV tells people the facts about the wars in the Middle East (drones killing innocent people), then whoever believes that is un-American. Until the TV tells people that the Federal Reserve System is a system of counterfeiters, then whoever believes that is a nutjob. And on and on. I think I have already alienated enough of my friends and family to just quit talking about politics to them. Heck, even most people on this forum still think that men walked on the Moon in 1969. The truth gets buried in "Hot Topics" even here.

Warrior_of_Freedom

10-25-2012, 11:30 AM

The media is still too powerful right now. Until the TV tells people the facts about world trade center towers being explosively demolished, then whoever believes that is just a conspiracy theorist. Until the TV tells people the facts about the wars in the Middle East (drones killing innocent people), then whoever believes that is un-American. Until the TV tells people that the Federal Reserve System is a system of counterfeiters, then whoever believes that is a nutjob. And on and on. I think I have already alienated enough of my friends and family to just quit talking about politics to them. Heck, even most people on this forum still think that men walked on the Moon in 1969. The truth gets buried in "Hot Topics" even here.Yeah, and the sad part is most of that stuff, the people in question ADMIT to OPENLY, and people still disbelieve it.

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

10-25-2012, 11:48 AM

I disagree. I think that we do have a responsibility, like it or not. If we have knowledge of something that others do not, then I believe there is a duty to share that knowledge. In simplistic terms, if we are all on a leaking ship that will sink in the near future, and I am the only person to possess this knowledge, do I not have a duty to inform others? Those that discover that knowledge would no longer be ignorant. Those that refused to believe me, despite their willful ignorance, could still be saved, along with the rest of us. At the very least, in such a scenario I would like to save myself, but need others to do so.

We are on that sinking ship.

I agree with you, but everyone is subject to burnout now and then. It is like the RP quote - "Let it not be said that we did nothing." Nobody wants to watch everything go to hell, thinking they should have said something about it or tried when it mattered.

There is also a certain point where it may be important for people to focus on themselves and their families instead of trying to save the world. I've felt myself in all three of these mindsets before. Burnout, save the world, save ourselves. I'm somewhere within all three of them right now, in fact.

Travlyr

10-25-2012, 12:47 PM

Absolutely!

German born international counterfeiter Paul Warburg conspired with American bankers, Senator Nelson Aldrich, et.al. to debase America's currency in 1910.

Yeah, and the sad part is most of that stuff, the people in question ADMIT to OPENLY, and people still disbelieve it.

Hidden right out in the open with full disclosure: The Federal Reserve of Minneapolis (http://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications_papers/pub_display.cfm?id=3815)

Paul Warburg was born in Hamburg in 1868. The offspring of a prominent German banking family, he had been trained in banking in the European financial capitals.

They call it "sound finance" instead of "sound money."

... Paul Warburg. Both of these board members were emigrants from Germany—and from the higher circles of German and European finance. Warburg, a member of the first Federal Reserve Board, like Wallich, was a staunch advocate of sound finance.

They call it "elastic currency" rather than "counterfeiting money."

The idea of an "elastic currency," which would expand to meet the legitimate needs of business and commerce, was not new.
No, the debasement of currency was not new. The concept of controlling the population by controlling their currency dates back to the times of Babylon.

They call the "conspiracy of international bankers and political figures to create a central bank" an "expedition and a conference."

The Jekyll Island Expedition
One evening in early November 1910, Warburg and a small party of men from New York quietly boarded Sen. Aldrich's private railway car, ostensibly for a trip south to an exclusive hunting club on an island off the coast of Georgia.

Ha ha... fooled the silly Americans... and instead of hunting at the hunt club they conspired to take-over America by getting control of the money supply. Paul Warburg aka Oliver "Daddy" Warbucks was a very rich man in America. Counterfeiting pays big bucks.

Then they admit it was a conspiracy,

Even Warburg at first questioned the motives of this gathering, not knowing if he was included because the group knew what he preached and was interested in what he had to offer, or if he was to be involved as a conspirator in order to be muzzled.

Hidden right out in the open, straight from the horse's mouth, and not one peep from the land of TV. Now that Ron Paul is out of the picture not even one question in the debates about monetary policy.