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View Full Version : Shut up and play nice: How the Western world is limiting free speech




sailingaway
10-19-2012, 06:59 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_404h/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/10/12/Outlook/Images/o-freespeech14.jpg


Free speech is dying in the Western world. While most people still enjoy considerable freedom of expression, this right, once a near-absolute, has become less defined and less dependable for those espousing controversial social, political or religious views. The decline of free speech has come not from any single blow but rather from thousands of paper cuts of well-intentioned exceptions designed to maintain social harmony.

In the face of the violence that frequently results from anti-religious expression, some world leaders seem to be losing their patience with free speech. After a video called “Innocence of Muslims” appeared on YouTube and sparked violent protests in several Muslim nations last month, U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon warned that “when some people use this freedom of expression to provoke or humiliate some others’ values and beliefs, then this cannot be protected.”

It appears that the one thing modern society can no longer tolerate is intolerance. As Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard put it in her recent speech before the United Nations, “Our tolerance must never extend to tolerating religious hatred.”

A willingness to confine free speech in the name of social pluralism can be seen at various levels of authority and government. In February, for instance, Pennsylvania Judge Mark Martin heard a case in which a Muslim man was charged with attacking an atheist marching in a Halloween parade as a “zombie Muhammed.” Martin castigated not the defendant but the victim, Ernie Perce, lecturing him that “our forefathers intended to use the First Amendment so we can speak with our mind, not to piss off other people and cultures — which is what you did.”

Of course, free speech is often precisely about pissing off other people — challenging social taboos or political values.

This was evident in recent days when courts in Washington and New York ruled that transit authorities could not prevent or delay the posting of a controversial ad that says: “In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. Support Israel. Defeat jihad.”

When U.S. District Judge Rosemary Collyer said the government could not bar the ad simply because it could upset some Metro riders, the ruling prompted calls for new limits on such speech. And in New York, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority responded by unanimously passing a new regulation banning any message that it considers likely to “incite” others or cause some “other immediate breach of the peace.”

Such efforts focus not on the right to speak but on the possible reaction to speech — a fundamental change in the treatment of free speech in the West. The much-misconstrued statement of Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes that free speech does not give you the right to shout fire in a crowded theater is now being used to curtail speech that might provoke a violence-prone minority. Our entire society is being treated as a crowded theater, and talking about whole subjects is now akin to shouting “fire!”

more at link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-four-arguments-the-western-world-uses-to-limit-free-speech/2012/10/12/e0573bd4-116d-11e2-a16b-2c110031514a_story.html

Brian4Liberty
10-20-2012, 12:10 PM
A willingness to confine free speech in the name of social pluralism can be seen at various levels of authority and government. In February, for instance, Pennsylvania Judge Mark Martin heard a case in which a Muslim man was charged with attacking an atheist marching in a Halloween parade as a “zombie Muhammed.” Martin castigated not the defendant but the victim, Ernie Perce, lecturing him that “our forefathers intended to use the First Amendment so we can speak with our mind, not to piss off other people and cultures — which is what you did.”

Of course, free speech is often precisely about pissing off other people — challenging social taboos or political values.

This was evident in recent days when courts in Washington and New York ruled that transit authorities could not prevent or delay the posting of a controversial ad that says: “In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. Support Israel. Defeat jihad.”

If the Zombie Mohammed had a sign that said "support Israel", would he be OK then?

sailingaway
10-21-2012, 09:50 AM
My problem is content neutral. If you have jurisdiction to decide what speech is acceptable, no speech is free.

acptulsa
10-21-2012, 10:52 AM
When U.S. District Judge Rosemary Collyer said the government could not bar the ad simply because it could upset some Metro riders, the ruling prompted calls for new limits on such speech. And in New York, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority responded by unanimously passing a new regulation banning any message that it considers likely to “incite” others or cause some “other immediate breach of the peace.”

Leave it to a rag like the Washington Post to equate a guy in a zombie suit with a well-financed propaganda corporation buying advertising space in publicly-owned, publicly-supported spaces. I personally think selling advertising space on any city property is as tasteless and disconcerting as selling advertising space in the city hall or county courthouse. How would you feel about going to a city council hearing on allowing XYZ Corp. a special zoning law exemption and passing several bought-and-paid-for ads for XYZ on your way there? Or, passing the same on your way to small claims court where you are pitted against XYZ?

Ads in the subway, busses, trolleys, etc. are a longstanding tradition. But there has to be limits. Hell, privately owned TV and radio stations have been known to refuse to run offensive ads. And those who stand to be offended don't necessarily own a piece those.

I am not of the opinion that speech that is bought and paid for is 'free speech'. When money buys you a megaphone, it seems to me that becomes a different issue. And it seems to me that the owner of a place should have a say in whether someone buying their megaphone should be allowed to do so.

sailingaway
10-21-2012, 11:20 AM
Leave it to a rag like the Washington Post to equate a guy in a zombie suit with a well-financed propaganda corporation buying advertising space in publicly-owned, publicly-supported spaces. I personally think selling advertising space on any city property is as tasteless and disconcerting as selling advertising space in the city hall or county courthouse. How would you feel about going to a city council hearing on allowing XYZ Corp. a special zoning law exemption and passing several bought-and-paid-for ads for XYZ on your way there? Or, passing the same on your way to small claims court where you are pitted against XYZ?

Ads in the subway, busses, trolleys, etc. are a longstanding tradition. But there has to be limits. Hell, privately owned TV and radio stations have been known to refuse to run offensive ads. And those who stand to be offended don't necessarily own a piece those.

I am not of the opinion that speech that is bought and paid for is 'free speech'. When money buys you a megaphone, it seems to me that becomes a different issue. And it seems to me that the owner of a place should have a say in whether someone buying their megaphone should be allowed to do so.

But the issue isn't confined to how private property is used, and if it is public property, isn't it MORE compelling for free speech? I am not taking a stand on owner rights but on limitations on 'acceptable' thought and stiffling differing opinions.

acptulsa
10-21-2012, 11:29 AM
But the issue isn't confined to how private property is used, and if it is public property, isn't it MORE compelling for free speech?

I think so. Which is why I think there should be greater limitations on bought-and-paid-for speech on public property.

The Supreme Court equates spending money with speaking freely. I do not.

sailingaway
10-21-2012, 12:07 PM
I think so. Which is why I think there should be greater limitations on bought-and-paid-for speech on public property.

The Supreme Court equates spending money with speaking freely. I do not.

Nor I, necessarily, but a sign that says something seems to be speech. I think the signs were beyond the pale, but restriction on comment is still restriction on speech. I think funny postit 'hate speech' markers showing how detestable they are would be better.

truelies
10-22-2012, 04:26 AM
bottomline guarding the tender feelings of moslems, femenazis and homosexuals is the Statist's tool of choice to hammer middle america into serfdom.

Brian4Liberty
10-22-2012, 01:06 PM
My problem is content neutral. If you have jurisdiction to decide what speech is acceptable, no speech is free.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, even worse when the road is a slippery slope.