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View Full Version : Which of the two candidates to vote for?




Elwar
10-19-2012, 02:12 PM
Once again 4 years pass and we are left with a choice between two candidates to choose from for president.

While we all may have our reasons to vote one way or another, I hope that everyone will keep an open mind and look at the positions and principles of the two men who have campaigned hard for president. Your vote is an important one and should not be taken lightly.

So I will break down the two choices in a non-biased way, noting that at this point even I do not know ...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/entry.php?794-Which-of-the-two-candidates-to-vote-for


May be a good one to send to your friends who are trying to decide who to vote for this November...

sailingaway
10-19-2012, 02:16 PM
candidate B, for me.

James Otis, Jr.
10-19-2012, 02:41 PM
Candidate B for me, too, in a heartbeat. But, since Candidate B is no longer a candidate and Candidate A is the best liberty alternative v. Candidates C,D,E,F,... I'm voting for Candidate A. My write-in vote for Ron Paul would not be recorded as a vote for Ron Paul in Illinois, whereas my vote for Gary Johnson will be added to his total (hopefully 2 Million or more). I've seen some comments about the write-ins having an impact just based on the Obama/Romney numbers not adding to 100%. There's no way that's going to be noticed outside of this movement. We'll be lucky if even a good Gary Johnson showing even gets noticed. But, at least it is possible.

S.Shorland
10-20-2012, 04:03 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Tennieldumdee.jpg

sailingaway
10-20-2012, 05:46 PM
Candidate B for me, too, in a heartbeat. But, since Candidate B is no longer a candidate and Candidate A is the best liberty alternative v. Candidates C,D,E,F,... I'm voting for Candidate A. My write-in vote for Ron Paul would not be recorded as a vote for Ron Paul in Illinois, whereas my vote for Gary Johnson will be added to his total (hopefully 2 Million or more). I've seen some comments about the write-ins having an impact just based on the Obama/Romney numbers not adding to 100%. There's no way that's going to be noticed outside of this movement. We'll be lucky if even a good Gary Johnson showing even gets noticed. But, at least it is possible.

I don't think Johnson's will be noticed either, but the point for me is that neither are going to win, and if I am going to vote for someone who isn't going to win, it is going to be Ron Paul. It will be counted, and if the number is large, WE can spread the 'none of the above' number. If it isn't, it won't matter anyway, to anyone else, and it matters a lot to me.

Article V
10-20-2012, 08:59 PM
I don't think [a vote for Gary Johnson] will be noticed either.

If the Libertarian Party candidate receives enough votes in a state, then the Libertarian Party will not have to fight for and waste thousands of dollars and human resources in the next election trying to get ballot access. So, a vote for Gary Johnson could be looked at as not only a vote for liberty but a vote for the Libertarian Party to be better recognized in the future so that ballot access will be a given rather than a money-hole fight that the Democrats and Republicans never even need to engage in.

Can we all imagine how much easier it would be for liberty candidates if the Libertarian Party didn't have to waste all their money and human resources on ballot access? I think liberty voters need to think carefully before they write in Ron Paul and ignore the difference their vote could make toward actually opening up the future for all liberty candidates (Ron Paul included, if he were to ever run again).

sailingaway
10-20-2012, 09:13 PM
If the Libertarian Party candidate receives enough votes in a state, then the Libertarian Party will not have to fight for and waste thousands of dollars and human resources in the next election trying to get ballot access. So, a vote for Gary Johnson could be looked at as not only a vote for liberty but a vote for the Libertarian Party to be better recognized in the future so that ballot access will be a given rather than a money-hole fight that the Democrats and Republicans never even need to engage in.

Can we all imagine how much easier it would be for liberty candidates if the Libertarian Party didn't have to waste all their money and human resources on ballot access? I think liberty voters need to think carefully before they write in Ron Paul and ignore the difference their vote could make toward actually opening up the future for all liberty candidates (Ron Paul included, if he were to ever run again).

I'm writing in Ron Paul.

This time I have been spending all year looking forward to vote for Ron, and even if they didn't even count 'undervote' nor his write ins, they'd have to physically prevent me from doing it to stop me.

However, I also advise the LP to go back to its roots and pick Browne / Badnarik /Nolan type candidates to carry their standard at the presidential level. Particularly given the odds against them winning, the top of the ticket should be pure, to galvanize people for the brand, imho. I've only been paying attention to the LP since 2008, but the candidates I know best on that ticket weren't people I'd feel a huge drive to give easier access to, certainly not to the point of voting for a candidate I don't want.

Now, I am completely on board with fighting to change ballot access for ALL parties, and candidates, since I think those barriers to entry are a major reason there is so little real choice in candidates. But neither Johnson nor Barr are choices I would have made, in any event, personally.

RonRocks
10-20-2012, 09:29 PM
Candidate B is of course ideal..but being a pragmatist, I'll have to vote for A, just because he is officially on the ballot and I agree with 99% of what he says.

Article V
10-20-2012, 09:53 PM
I'm writing in Ron Paul.
I'm not trying to discourage you from writing in Ron Paul; I may do the same. You should do as your principles command. I am merely pushing back against the false notion that: since neither Ron Paul or Gary Johnson can win, one might as well write-in Ron Paul because a vote for Johnson won't make any more difference than a vote for Ron Paul.

Fact is, depending on your state, a vote for Johnson (even if he loses) actually could make a HUGE difference regarding ballot access for other Libertarian Party members (at all levels of government), while a write-in vote for Ron Paul merely makes a statement without effecting a real and substantive change in the future. Moreover, besides considering the principle in voting for Ron Paul vs voting for Gary Johnson, one must also consider the effects of economics. If you ever donate to a liberty candidate (at any level of government), then voting for Gary Johnson so that those future liberty candidates can have automatic ballot access will make your donation dollar go that much farther and be that much more valuable. Conversely, writing-in Ron Paul might feel good now, but would be a willful waste of one's own dollars and the dollars of all other liberty supporters who donate toward liberty candidates at all the various levels of government if that donation must then be used for ballot access that could have been secured by an earlier vote.

Just saying, all voters should REALLY think about all the effects of their votes before they cast them.

sailingaway
10-20-2012, 11:02 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A5rYvHTCEAAJXu2.jpg

from someone I follow on twitter:

https://twitter.com/1Marchella/status/259758232447356928/photo/1

mport1
10-21-2012, 01:52 AM
Your vote is not important at all. You'd have to vote for over 200 million years to be the deciding vote in an election.

For everybody who spends time thinking and worrying about how they will vote, just save the stress and don't vote because it is 100% meaningless. If you want to vote though, go right ahead. I'll be voting for the sole reason of not having to hear the tired "if you don't vote you can't complain" nonsense. Please just don't have the illusion that your vote matters at all. You've got much better odds playing Mega Millions.

Elwar
10-21-2012, 08:36 AM
Your vote is not important at all. You'd have to vote for over 200 million years to be the deciding vote in an election.

For everybody who spends time thinking and worrying about how they will vote, just save the stress and don't vote because it is 100% meaningless. If you want to vote though, go right ahead. I'll be voting for the sole reason of not having to hear the tired "if you don't vote you can't complain" nonsense. Please just don't have the illusion that your vote matters at all. You've got much better odds playing Mega Millions.

This is very true. But, as Ron Paul activists, our "vote" actually carries with it a bit more weight. Sure our one vote will not win the election or decide anything, but as activists there are a bunch of people who do not follow politics who look to us to find out our take on it. You all have family and friends who have been blinded by the media who will take your decision seriously. For each of us that could be 10 people which adds up.

As for me, I will encourage my family and friends to at the very least not vote for Obama or Romney. I will encourage them to vote for Gary Johnson merely because it is easiest and not as huge of a stand to take as writing in Ron Paul.

Perhaps that is a good strategy for us all, vote for Ron Paul but encourage others to vote for Johnson.

sailingaway
10-21-2012, 08:40 AM
I"m voting for Ron Paul and telling people why. They will vote as they feel best, but I am not torn between the two, I don't want Johnson, personally, so I would hardly go out of my way to encourage people to vote for him. I honestly don't see why people connect the two, to me they just seem to have ad hoc positions that overlap, not at all the same approach or grounding in principles.

Aratus
10-21-2012, 08:51 AM
if one does not at all sarcastically write in ole ralph nader or realistically write in dr. ron paul,
ought we all to humour voting for mr. virgil goode or ms. jill stein if one is trying not to swell
the ignoble EGO of governor gary johnson too greatly? y'all could sweetly sit the shindig out.

sailingaway
10-21-2012, 08:55 AM
if one does not at all sarcastically write in ole ralph nader or realistically write in dr. ron paul,
ought we all to humour voting for mr. virgil goode or ms. jill stein if one is trying not to swell
the ignoble EGO of governor gary johnson too greatly? y'all could sweetly sit the shindig out.

IMHO if you sit it out, they can pretend you weren't protesting the choices, and that you were just watching Honey Boo Boo instead.

I'd love someday to have more than 50% in the 'none of the above' category as a vote of no confidence -- if we aren't able to get the system to be more open.

Aratus
10-21-2012, 09:01 AM
the other tough choise locally is rewarding either scott brown or elizabeth warren or voting for the third party candidates.
i almost want to wait for rand paul or linda bean to start campaigning in N.H so i can bus trip via a $20 up north of here.
if i focus on running as something in 2014 or 2016 or 2018 or 2020 i might have an impact like our GUNNY so i've got to get
myself to my local town hall with a supply of clothespins and vote. we need to do something this year as we think of '14.

Dr.3D
10-21-2012, 09:08 AM
I understand, in Nevada, they will have the option to vote for "None of the above". I guess it will be at the bottom below the other choices.