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Brian4Liberty
10-19-2012, 01:40 PM
http://original.antiwar.com/muhammad-sahimi/2012/10/14/stop-supporting-separatist-groups-in-iran/


Stop Supporting Separatist Groups in Iran
...
The United States, together with its allies in the region, namely, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Jordan, and Turkey, are arming and funding the groups that are fighting the regime of Bashar al-Assad in Damascus, groups that include extremists such as the Salafis, Wahhabis, the Syrian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, and al-Qaeda in Iraq. Western and Israeli strategists believe that Lebanon will come under their control once Iran and Syria are defeated.

...trying to turn Iran into a client state — one that will carry water for the interests of the U.S. and Israel over its own national interests through military means is impossible. Iran was a client state during the reign of Mohammad Reza Shah, but the 1979 Revolution toppled his regime. While crippling sanctions have mostly hurt ordinary — especially sick — Iranians, the War Party and Israel have been trying to find other ways of achieving their goal as well, and one approach that had been discussed for years and is now being seriously pursued is inciting ethnic unrest and creating puppet separatist groups or “liberation movements” in Iran’s provinces where ethnic groups other than Persians make up a significant portion of the population. They include Iran’s two Azerbaijan provinces, Kurdistan, and the oil-rich province of Khuzestan, where a small but significant part of the population is Iranian-Arab.

The idea is not new. Princeton University’s Bernard Lewis has written for years about using ethnic groups in Iran and elsewhere in the Middle East to break up the region into weak mini-states. In her book, Borders and Brethren: Iran and the Challenge of Azerbaijani Identity, Brenda Shaffer, the American-Israeli academic, claims that there is no such thing as a unifying collective Iranian identity and advocates separation of Iran’s Azerbaijan and joining it with the Republic of Azerbaijan. Interestingly, the current Republic of Azerbaijan was part of Iran throughout history until the Russian empire separated it from Iran in 1820s. Other academics have also made such bogus claims for years. Several years ago a quote was widely attributed to an aide to Israel’s former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, according to which, “Even if Iran becomes a completely democratic state, it would still be too large and a threat to Israel’s security.”

But what has brought the issue to the fore again is the standoff over Iran’s nonexistent nuclear weapons program. The standoff is not really over the possible threat by a nuclear Iran to Israel’s security. Many Israeli leaders have conceded that even if Iran develops nuclear weapons, it will pose no grave danger to their nation. It is a question of hegemony, and an Iran that cannot be attacked because it can develop a nuclear deterrent on a short notice is unacceptable to the U.S. and Israel. Thus, along with the crippling sanctions, the efforts to stir ethnic and separatist tensions along Iran’s western borders began in earnest several years ago.

...Former Mossad chief Meir Dagan has been reported as saying that one component of Israel’s plan to confront Iran since 2003 has been stirring up ethnic tensions, which was also confirmed by a U.S. diplomatic cable dated Aug. 17, 2007, that was revealed by WikiLeaks. Seymour Hersh reported in 2006 that U.S. Special Forces have established contacts with some ethnic groups in Iran, in particular the Kurdish terrorist group PJAK, an assertion that he repeated in July 2008. PJAK is in fact the Iranian branch of the Kurdistan Workers Party, commonly known as the PKK, which has been fighting the Turkish government for decades. It was widely reported that the George W. Bush administration supported the terrorist group Jundallah, which claims to represent the Baluchi people, operates from Pakistan, and attacks Iranian forces and people in Iran’s Sistan and Baluchestan province. Support for the group may have continued under President Obama. It was reported in January that agents of Israel’s Mossad posed as CIA agents to recruit Jundallah members for terrorist operations within Iran. Israel’s IDF agents have been reported to be highly active in Kurdistan part of Iraq, where some small Iranian dissident Kurdish groups have their headquarters. Israel has also established close relations with the Republic of Azerbaijan and is using it to spy on Iran —* in addition to have possibly been granted access to an air force base there — where some extremist elements have called for changing the name of the nation to Republic of Northern Azerbaijan, implying that Iran’s Azerbaijan to the south is also part of the Republic.

There have been efforts by Israel’s supporters in Congress as well. In 2009, when she was still in Congress, Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.) spoke to a gathering of AIPAC, saying, “The Persian population in Iran is not a majority, it is a plurality. There are many different, diverse, and disagreeing populations inside Iran and an obvious strategy, which I believe is a good strategy, is to separate those populations.” The declaration caused deep anger in the Iranian-American community, with thousands of angry emails and phone calls flooding her office, forcing her to retract and apologize for her statement, although it is certainly not clear to me how sincere she was. More recently, another ardent Israel supporter, Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.) introduced a resolution in the House, urging the Obama administration to support “right of Azeri self-determination,” which also provoked wide anger and protests in the Iranian community in the diaspora. Puppet separatist groups have also sprung up. They have very little, if any, support within Iran, but with the encouragement and support that they receive in the West they pretend to speak for their ethnic groups in Iran.
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MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
10-19-2012, 01:50 PM
Separatist

I don't like that term. It's a Randy Weaver throwback.

Can we neither support them, nor denounce them?



Princeton University’s Bernard Lewis has written for years about using ethnic groups in Iran and elsewhere in the Middle East to break up the region into weak mini-states.


Maybe Bernard could mind his own fucking business. Or maybe he could move to Iran if he wants to be a part of that movement.

Brian4Liberty
10-19-2012, 02:45 PM
I don't like that term. It's a Randy Weaver throwback.


The connection never occurred to me. Never really knew anything about Weaver other than reading stories about how they shot members of his family.

Personally, I don't like the idea of "separatism" at all (ethnic, religious or racial).



Can we neither support them, nor denounce them?


Now wouldn't that be nice?

Unfortunately, it's a tool for conquest, and the powers that be are using it. It has nothing to do with what's best for the people involved. In Turkey, we support the government in fighting the separatists. From other stories, it appears that we want to help them with the latest technology and techniques (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?392954-U.S.-Offered-Turkey-Help-Against-Kurdish-Group), but the government of Turkey declined. Maybe they don't want to use drone strikes in their own country.

On the other hand, we support and supply separatists in places like Syria, Libya, and Iran and previously in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now we fight the separatists in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are just being used like pawns.

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
10-19-2012, 03:32 PM
The connection never occurred to me. Never really knew anything about Weaver other than reading stories about how they shot members of his family.

He was always called a "white separatist" which was meant to be interpreted as "racist." He was in an area where there were neo-nazis, and so had contact with them.

Separatist = Isolationist, just on different scales. Putting "white" in front of it will imply you are also a racist. Imagine if the media had kept calling Paul a "white isolationist." Both words are subtle smears. "Separatist" just means choosing your own associations or lack thereof.

This guy courageously represented Randy Weaver - http://www.gerryspence.com/ - and almost made me a lawyer. Back then, I had no idea how bad shit could get.




Personally, I don't like the idea of "separatism" at all.

It's just a personal preference. If you want to go live in the woods with your family and hunt/grow your own food, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not my preferred method of living either, but it's sure not threatening to those who prefer a metropolis.

I don't know that anyone here would agree with him on everything, but he's been writing liberty themed books for 30 years now. From Freedom to Slavery had a profound effect on me. Part of it was an argument against the NDAA 20 years ago. Here's why - or a paraphrase of the point made. When a person comes into an emergency room, the doctor does not question whether they are injured during a commission of a crime. The doctor has a job to give the best medical care possible. Same with a lawyer. When someone finds themselves afoul of the law, the lawyer's job is not to decide if they found themselves in that position because they were committing a "crime." The job of the lawyer (defense attorney) is to provide the best care possible, because that is what people should deserve in our legal system.

He's been out there fighting for liberty/justice for a long time... I'll admit I haven;t followed him or heard much from him in 7-8 years, but I think he's a personal hero of the liberty crowd.

Brian4Liberty
10-19-2012, 05:49 PM
It's just a personal preference. If you want to go live in the woods with your family and hunt/grow your own food, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not my preferred method of living either, but it's sure not threatening to those who prefer a metropolis.

Yeah, nothing wrong with that.

I have more of an issue with separatist as used in the linked article, which involves ethnic or religious groups fighting each and "cleansing" areas. Seems to happen a lot when we mess in the affairs of others. Look at the messes in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria. Perhaps not surprising since we often instigate or encourage it for manipulative reasons.

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
10-20-2012, 03:04 PM
Look at the messes in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria. Perhaps not surprising since we often instigate or encourage it for manipulative reasons.

With you for sure on that. People like Bernard Lewis should be ashamed of themselves.

Brian4Liberty
10-22-2012, 01:09 PM
With you for sure on that. People like Bernard Lewis should be ashamed of themselves.

As should Jane Harmon and Dana Rohrabacher.


There have been efforts by Israel’s supporters in Congress as well. In 2009, when she was still in Congress, Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.) spoke to a gathering of AIPAC, saying, “The Persian population in Iran is not a majority, it is a plurality. There are many different, diverse, and disagreeing populations inside Iran and an obvious strategy, which I believe is a good strategy, is to separate those populations.” The declaration caused deep anger in the Iranian-American community, with thousands of angry emails and phone calls flooding her office, forcing her to retract and apologize for her statement, although it is certainly not clear to me how sincere she was. More recently, another ardent Israel supporter, Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.) introduced a resolution in the House, urging the Obama administration to support “right of Azeri self-determination,” which also provoked wide anger and protests in the Iranian community in the diaspora.