**Official** townhall debate thread - Mitt Romney vs. Barack Obama

[jct74]

2nd Presidential Debate - Tuesday October 16, 2012

Topic: Town meeting format including foreign and domestic policy

Air Time: 9:00-10:30 p.m. Eastern Time

Location: Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York (Tickets)

Sponsor: Commission on Presidential Debates

Participants: President Barack Obama and Governor Mitt Romney

Moderator: Candy Crowley (CNN Chief Political Correspondent)

The second presidential debate will take the form of a town meeting, in which citizens will ask questions of the candidates on foreign and domestic issues. Candidates each will have two minutes to respond, and an additional minute for the moderator to facilitate a discussion. The town meeting participants will be undecided voters selected by the Gallup Organization.

http://www.2012presidentialelectionnews.com/2012-debate-schedule/2012-presidential-debate-schedule/


livestream:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU_RSbB3s-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU_RSbB3s-4

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Jct you beat me to it. I got the first debate though. :p

[fr33]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpMPu5p_QXU

[Anti Federalist]

Wow, the excitement is...overwhelming.

[Sola_Fide]

Wow, the excitement is...overwhelming.

Which team are you? Red or Blue?

[Keith and stuff]

Wow, the excitement is...overwhelming.

We had a 2 hour long forum and debate session today in Cheshire County. 5 pro-liberty candidates took part in the forum and debate. There was even a straw poll afterwords. All 5 pro-liberty candidates won the straw poll except Gary Johnson who came in 3rd. Eventually, the whole forum will air on the local TV station.

See more here http://freekeene.com/2012/10/16/cheshire-county-candidate-forum-strawpoll-results/
See the straw poll results here http://fpp.cc/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/strawpoll2.pdf

Afterwords, a couple of the LP candidates did a sign wave at the Keene Central Square. 1 of them was interviewed by a local atheist anarchist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IWY5QVfF6k

[Bruno]

Can't stand Candy

[BamaAla]

Can't stand Candy

Cosign

[bunklocoempire]

I imagine both Obamney and Obamney will deliver some truth as prompted by the modrerator...

http://s6.postimage.org/644hzhbht/truth.gif

[jclay2]

Wow, this is such a sham. At least it is fun pressing disagree every 5 seconds!

[Dianne]

Why are you guys doing this? Why ae you giving these maggots coverage for ratings; ....

They raped us already, they raped Ron Paul.. why do you assist them? Turn your tv off !!!!!!!!

[BamaAla]

Wow, this is such a sham. At least it is fun pressing disagree every 5 seconds!

reactlabs?

[Jumbo Shrimp]

Obama coming out strong, I mean it's all bullshit, but he's stronger than last time.

[Sola_Fide]

I think these "debates" are designed to make you dumber than you were than when you started watching.

[wgadget]

Obama's got a snizzling booger in his nose.

[madengr]

Obama didn't double fuel efficiency. Politicians don't double fuel efficiency, engineers do.

[jclay2]

reactlabs?

Not sure, I am watching on http://www.washingtonpost.com/grid/presidential-debate-2012-hofstra/

[shane77m]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpMPu5p_QXU

+rep. LOL

[cajuncocoa]

Obama's got a snizzling booger in his nose.ewwwwww :p

[wgadget]

Funny how Romney is whining about not enough Oil Drilling on PUBLIC LANDS. He wants MORE GOVERNMENT? What's wrong with the shale drilling on PRIVATE LAND?

[wgadget]

Fist fight?

[cajuncocoa]

Fist fight?That would make this much more interesting!! LOL

[wgadget]

Romney is acting like a dick.

[UpperDecker]

Not gonna lie, I lol'd at "That wasn't a question, that was a statement."

[VBRonPaulFan]

Fist fight?

oh man, i was just thinking the same thing... that would be hilarious haha

[llepard]

The lies are coming fast and furious. Is this the best the Establishment can offer? Pathetic

[rprprs]

Romney is acting like a dick.

yep...overplaying his hand here.

[wgadget]

The president doesn't affect the price of gas, Romney, you dick.

[wgadget]

No one there understands AUSTRIAN ECONOMICS. Pity.

[jkob]

oh man, i was just thinking the same thing... that would be hilarious haha

lol me too

was just thinking PUNCH HIM PUNCH HIM PUNCH HIM

[jclay2]

The president doesn't affect the price of gas, Romney, you dick.

That is the angle obama should have used. Use mitt's "free market" principles against him.

[wgadget]

The lies are coming fast and furious. Is this the best the Establishment can offer? Pathetic

Puppets don't NEED brains, silly.

[cajuncocoa]

I think both of them are coming off like a couple of jerks. I guess that's the Biden factor.

[llepard]

Romney is acting like a dick.

He was so condescending to the student who asked the first question. Anyone who saw his close on that question saw the real Romney.

[dbill27]

The president doesn't affect the price of gas, Romney, you dick.

Yeah he does, deficit spending, energy policy, war..

[wgadget]

Can somebody say FISCAL CLIFF?

Anybody?

Nah..These morons asking the questions probably never heard the term...

[VanBummel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX_1B0w7Hzc&feature=plcp

[Shane Harris]

I wish Tom Woods could be up there debating these morons. I feel like he would be excellent at this format for some reason. He comes off very likeable to me whereas someone like Schiff tends to come off very arrogant and condescending.

[wgadget]

Yeah he does, deficit spending, energy policy, war..


...bailing out the CENTRAL BANKERS all over the world...Yeah, I guess that helps make the cost of EVERYTHING go up.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Obama laughed when Romney said. "Cracking down on China when they cheat." ....hmmmm

[Keith and stuff]

Sorry Obama, cutting taxes doesn't cost 5 trillion dollars. Cutting taxes saves money. It helps us. Please try to think.

[jkob]

geez these guys are full of ****

[llepard]

geez these guys are full of ****

No shit.

Romney is pissed. The gloves are coming off

[DeMintConservative]

The president doesn't affect the price of gas, Romney, you dick.


That is the angle obama should have used. Use mitt's "free market" principles against him.

15 Times Obama and Top Dems Blame Bush For Gas Prices (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQb_4hXLx2Q)

[wgadget]

How close do you think either of them will get to calling out the CENTRAL BANKSTERS?

[Keith and stuff]

Ms. Fenton just lied. Woman make just as much as men. Fail. Maybe, maybe someday she will start to live in reality and not some crazy fantasy world.

[jclay2]

How close do you think either of them will get to calling out the CENTRAL BANKSTERS?

Lol......You think they will hit the hyperinflationary money masters who are really calling a shot.

[llepard]

How close do you think either of them will get to calling out the CENTRAL BANKSTERS?

Dream on.

Romney maybe desperate enough to take swipe. He is losing and knows it.

[wgadget]

What a dumb question. There are more women graduating from college, and more women bringing home the bacon.

All the ladies gotta do is ASK FOR A RAISE.

Duh.

[wgadget]

Dream on.

Romney maybe desperate enough to take swipe. He is losing and knows it.

I seriously doubt it.

TOP CONTRIBUTORS

Barack Obama (D)
1 University of California $706,931
2 Microsoft Corp $544,445
3 Google Inc $526,009
4 Harvard University $433,860
5 US Government $389,100

Mitt Romney (R)
1 Goldman Sachs $891,140
2 Bank of America $668,139
3 JPMorgan Chase & Co $663,219
4 Morgan Stanley $649,847
5 Credit Suisse Group $554,066

[wgadget]

Aw, come on, Obie...We all know Obamacare=Romneycare...

[llepard]

I know what it takes to make an economy work.

Yeah, lever it up, pay special dividends, fire everyone, declare chapter 11 and build a house on the beach with the profits.

[jkob]

this question isn't slanted at all

[wgadget]

Romney Foreign Policy Advisors=Bush Foreign Policy Advisors

[llepard]

Yep. Nuke Iran. Kiss Israel's ass.

[wgadget]

Um, Willard...I think the question is about YOU VS BUSH.

[llepard]

Small business my ass, you crony

[wgadget]

Romney : "I KNOW HOW TO CREATE JOBS."

He's starting to sound like John Kerry with his "I WAS A VETERAN IN VIET NAM."

Sheesh.

[wgadget]

Dang, can you imagine getting through one of these debates without pissing off the central bankers at a time like this??

LOL

[llepard]

Dang, can you imagine getting through one of these debates without pissing off the central bankers at a time like this??

LOL

Yeah kind of a big elephant in the room to ignore.

[WilliamShrugged]

thats the romney 5 point plan for recovery??? man thats bad

[llepard]

Great question. INFLATION. It is the only issue

[wgadget]

HEY, OBAMA....

FIS-CAL CLIFF.

[Sola_Fide]

Neither are talking about debt or spending. They're talking about taxes. Who cares about taxes? Taxes are just a symptom of spending.

[wgadget]

Yeah kind of a big elephant in the room to ignore.

Welllll....In that room the people are so stupid they don't see it...No wonder they chose them. LOL

[DeMintConservative]

I know what it takes to make an economy work.

Yeah, lever it up, pay special dividends, fire everyone, declare chapter 11 and build a house on the beach with the profits.

I'm always amused by the Marxist belief that LBO/PE companies make money by actually destroying value. Men, those former owners and the banks that loan the money must be really dumb.

I guess this is to be expected in a country where people learn about economics and businesses from Hollywood films, tv shows and political campaigns.

[down_south]

Did Obama just say he ended the war in Iraq??? Are we not at war anymore in Iraq?

[llepard]

For Obama to claim he has reined in Wall Street is a bold faced lie. How can he deliver that line with a straight face

[llepard]

I'm always amused by the Marxist belief that LBO/PE companies make money by actually destroying value. Men, those former owners and the banks that loan the money must be really dumb.

I guess this is to be expected in a country where people learn about economics and businesses from Hollywood films, tv shows and political campaigns.

I have a Harvard MBA. The LBO business is corrupt and only works because of fiat money.

I was in the PE business. Growth equity investing adds value. LBO' s are a fraud.

To suggest that my comment is Marxist is absurd.

[jay_dub]

For Obama to claim he has reined in Wall Street is a bold faced lie. How can he deliver that line with a straight face

The same way Romney can talk his gas bullshit with a straight face.

[wgadget]

thats the romney 5 point plan for recovery??? man thats bad

HERE's the Romney 5-Point Plan:

Mitt Romney (R)
1 Goldman Sachs $891,140
2 Bank of America $668,139
3 JPMorgan Chase & Co $663,219
4 Morgan Stanley $649,847
5 Credit Suisse Group $554,066

[ShaneEnochs]

I'm not watching the debate, but from what I'm seeing here, it's about to turn into an old-fashioned duel.

[cajuncocoa]

That woman seemed pretty unfamiliar with the question she was supposed to ask....hmmm.

[DeMintConservative]

I have a Harvard MBA. The LBO business is corrupt and only works because of fiat money.

If you believe Rothbard's theories about fiat money and fractional reserve banking, then you can say that about pretty much every business on earth.

Your description above shows you have no idea whatsoever on how the LBO business model works. Tip: it's not by destroying value.

[madengr]

Ha ha, Romney broke into baby talk when responding to the non-native English speaker.

[belian78]

If you believe Rothbard's theories about fiat money and fractional reserve banking, then you can say that about pretty much every business on earth.

Your description above shows you have no idea whatsoever on how the LBO business model works. Tip: it's not by destroying value.

You have no idea who Larry is, do you? LOL

[jclay2]

Did Obama just say he ended the war in Iraq??? Are we not at war anymore in Iraq?

War is peace!

[James Madison]

I'm not watching the debate, but from what I'm seeing here, it's about to turn into an old-fashioned duel.

That would actually be pretty awesome.

[llepard]

If you believe Rothbard's theories about fiat money and fractional reserve banking, then you can say that about pretty much every business on earth.

Your description above shows you have no idea whatsoever on how the LBO business model works. Tip: it's not by destroying value.

Ever hear of the term fraudulent conveyance? You are right it is not about destroying value, it is about transferring it. It most certainly is not about creating value .

[Jumbo Shrimp]

Obama said gang banger

[DeMintConservative]

You have no idea who Larry is, do you? LOL

No, no idea. What Larry?

[wgadget]

You have no idea who Larry is, do you? LOL

Uh-oh. Ya don't wanna mess with Larry.

Not about economics.

:)

[DeMintConservative]

Ever hear of the term fraudulent conveyance? You are right it is not about destroying value, it is about transferring it. It most certainly is not about creating value .

Arguing that all LBOs are fraudulent transfers is just too nonsensical to address.

[wgadget]

Hmmm...Can't talk about CHINESE INVESTMENTS?

Getting a little close to those CENTRAL BANKERS, aren't we?

Tut tut tut.

THAT was interesting.

[llepard]

Arguing that all LBOs are fraudulent transfers is just too nonsensical to address.

I always thought DeMint was stupid. Your username supports my theory.

[madengr]

No, no idea. What Larry?

I still have the page hanging on my wall at work.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?37965-The-USA-Today-ad-is-complete-will-be-in-print-November-21st

[jkob]

Romney seems pretty pissed

[Ivash]

How's the debate going so far?

I've heard from a friend (who is slightly biased towards Romney, but he's not 'in the bag' so to speak) that Romney's doing very well, but I just started watching

[DeMintConservative]

Uh-oh. Ya don't wanna mess with Larry.

Not about economics.

:)

I still don't get who's Larry. The llepard poster advancing the resentment fuelled conspiracy theories about leveraged buyouts?

Among civilized debaters, arguments stand by themselves; who makes them is totally irrelevant. I couldn't care less if he's a Nobel Prize in Economics or a high-school janitor: his point remain the same.

[bunklocoempire]

That guy hates 'Merica. :toady:

(debate)

[jclay2]

"war in libya" Freudian slip for a response attack coming pre election?

[DeMintConservative]

I always thought DeMint was stupid. Your username supports my theory.

Sorry, I don't address ad hominem arguments.

[llepard]

Arguing that all LBOs are fraudulent transfers is just too nonsensical to address.

Look, if you can borrow money at below market rates due to government policy you have a license to STEAL from those who cannot.

Get it? Are you sure you belong on a Ron Paul forum? Guilliani might have a forum, or perhaps McCain,

[bunklocoempire]

"war in libya" Freudian slip for a response attack coming pre election?

lol I'm all "what?" I've got some lag issues here.

[Anti Federalist]

You have no idea who Larry is, do you? LOL

No he doesn't LOL.

[devil21]

OMG what is it with these two guys blinking so damn much? It's creepy and unnatural.

[llepard]

I still don't get who's Larry. The llepard poster advancing the resentment fuelled conspiracy theories about leveraged buyouts?

Among civilized debaters, arguments stand by themselves; who makes them is totally irrelevant. I couldn't care less if he's a Nobel Prize in Economics or a high-school janitor: his point remain the same.

My theory is not resentment fueled or a conspiracy theory. My theory is correct. End of argument. Educate yourself, kid.

[jay_dub]

Look, if you can borrow money at below market rates due to government policy you have a license to STEAL from those who cannot.

Get it? Are you sure you belong on a Ron Paul forum? Guilliani might have a forum, or perhaps McCain,

What's a market rate these days? Whatever Bernanke says it is.

[bunklocoempire]

OMG what is it with these two guys blinking so damn much? It's creepy and unnatural.

ODing on anti-truth does some weird stuff to ya.

[cajuncocoa]

Moderator helps Obama, and all of the undecided voters applaud wildly. Interesting.

[jclay2]

Yeah.....Gun Control!!!!

[ronpaulfollower999]

Romney keeps asking Obama direct questions, which is a violation of the rules.

[devil21]

Oooh AWB question. Will Romney finally pledge to not sign any AWB?

[madengr]

Evil black rifle question. How is Romney going to spin this?

[Dorfsmith]

Moderator helps Obama, and all of the undecided voters applaud wildly. Interesting.

I was thinking the same thing.

[llepard]

Sorry, I don't address ad hominem arguments.

It is not an argument . It is a statement . And by answering it you broke your own rule.

[Jumbo Shrimp]

Obama just came out in favor of an "assault weapons" ban.

[madengr]

Well I want an automatic weapon...

[dbill27]

Moderator helps Obama, and all of the undecided voters applaud wildly. Interesting.

It looked like the moderator flipped out at romney's response and then went out of her way to defend obama? Unbelievable.

[jkob]

if Romney was smart he'd bring up Fast And Furious

[Ethek]

llepard has the street cred on this.

[devil21]

Was wondering if F&F would be brought up. Definitely got Obama's attention.

Still no pledge from Romney to not sign an AWB. Just stuff about supporting this or that.

[jclay2]

Well I want an automatic weapon...

You must be a terrorist!!!

[DeMintConservative]

My theory is not resentment fueled or a conspiracy theory. My theory is correct. End of argument. Educate yourself, kid.
Heh, of course.

[Ethek]

I'm still hoping to get a rack grade M1 and some time in the civiliam marksmanship program.. My dad would really love one too.
These would be called 'assult weapons'

I dont see what is so hard to understand about 'shall not be infringed'

[anaconda]

Watched it for about 4 minutes. Bored to tears. Went to do other stuff. Obama looked like he was getting schooled. He seemed like a 5th grade kid trying to explain his bad report card.

[jclay2]

Candy....Candy...Candy

[Jumbo Shrimp]

Well I want an automatic weapon...

You can get one. It's not illegal like Romney said.

[DeMintConservative]

It looked like the moderator flipped out at romney's response and then went out of her way to defend obama? Unbelievable.

It was amazing. Candy Crowley is firmly on Team Obama.

"No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. "
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/09/12/remarks-president-deaths-us-embassy-staff-libya

[bunklocoempire]

Well I want an automatic weapon...

Sorry pal, our Afghan buddies and everyone else outside our borders are in line in front of you. Once you borrow money to buy weapons for everyone else we'll get back to you.

[llepard]

What's a market rate these days? Whatever Bernanke says it is.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. ZIRP is a gift to Wall Street and fraudulent financial operators. BTW DeMint, not all finance types are frauds. But some are.

[devil21]

You must be a terrorist!!!

The very statement that automatic weapons are illegal is inaccurate. They are not illegal at all.

[madengr]

You can get one. It's not illegal like Romney said.

Ha ha, I know. I just don't want to pay $10k for a grease gun.

[mac_hine]

Romney accusing China of manipulating their currency?!?!?!?!?! What the Fuck is the FED doing?

[jay_dub]

hahaha...."China is a currency manipulator".

News flash....that will never get anywhere. China will just accuse us of being interest rate manipulators.

Pot...meet kettle.

[jclay2]

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. ZIRP is a gift to Wall Street and fraudulent financial operators. BTW DeMint, not all finance types are frauds. But some are.

That and a gift for the us government at the expense of the most responsible in society (savers). However, like you know, they are just creating the framework for a destruction of our currency and hyperinflation. The scam will work until it doesn't. All it takes is 15/100 investors to wake up. Once this happens, it is game over.

[wgadget]

Umm...Is it safe to say that Romney wants a war with China?

[Jumbo Shrimp]

Obama won this debate.

[DeMintConservative]

Haha, Candy is just running interference for Obama now.

[ronpaulfollower999]

Obama won this debate.

Obama/Candy.

Agree.

[wgadget]

Romney is a dick.

But he knows what it takes to create jobs.

LOL

[dbill27]

Romney is an unapologetic socialist.

[madengr]

Those manufacturing jobs are not coming back. Labor is China is getting too expensive, so soon robots will be building the iCrap.

[Anti Federalist]

Pop quiz.

WRT to "assault weapons", which one these men has actually signed an assault weapon ban into law?

[llepard]

That and a gift for the us government at the expense of the most responsible in society (savers). However, like you know, they are just creating the framework for a destruction of our currency and hyperinflation. The scam will work until it doesn't. All it takes is 15/100 investors to wake up. Once this happens, it is game over.

EXACTLY. Retired savers are being robbed. It is sad. For now, tHe wicked prosper, but change is coming.......

[jay_dub]

Romney: "Government does not create jobs".

WHOOPS!! The backbone for his campaign is that he is a job creator. LOL....

So, no reason to vote for Romney right?

[bunklocoempire]

Pop quiz.

WRT to "assault weapons", which one these men has actually signed an assault weapon ban into law?

Men?

[ronpaulfollower999]

Pop quiz.

WRT to "assault weapons", which one these men has actually signed an assault weapon ban into law?

Who is Mitt Romney for $2,000, Alex?

[James Madison]

Men?

Candy Crowley qualifies as a man.

[Jumbo Shrimp]

Pop quiz.

WRT to "assault weapons", which one these men has actually signed an assault weapon ban into law?

The black one.

/republican

[DeMintConservative]

Romney: "Government does not create jobs".

WHOOPS!! The backbone for his campaign is that he is a job creator. LOL....

So, no reason to vote for Romney right?

Government prevents job creators from creating jobs though.

Romney's point is that he understand that. Obama clearly doesn't: the last 4 years prove it.

[llepard]

Men?

LMAO

[cajuncocoa]

Pop quiz.

WRT to "assault weapons", which one these men has actually signed an assault weapon ban into law?Romney, of course.

[ronpaulfollower999]

Should I watch Fox News or MSNBC for post-debate coverage? I want a meltdown.

[trey4sports]

what i came away with is this..... Americans just beyond stupid.

[AuH20]

The context of the debate was frivolous, but Obama won by a hair. No real catastrophic mistakes by either.

[DeMintConservative]

Pop quiz.

WRT to "assault weapons", which one these men has actually signed an assault weapon ban into law?

Certainly not the guy who was never an executive and spent most of his entire political career before running for President as a state senator and senator pushing for much harsher gun control laws.

Good try though.

[jkob]

Obama probably came out better from this but he had help from the moderator and the questions.

[jay_dub]

Government prevents job creators from creating jobs though.

Romney's point is that he understand that. Obama clearly doesn't: the last 4 years prove it.

No need to interpret what we all just heard. Call it a misspeak...but we all heard the job creator say government doesn't create the jobs he would create if he were in charge of the government.

[Keith and stuff]

I thought Romney won by a decent margin. Where is a link so that I may vote?

[Jumbo Shrimp]

I thought Romney won by a decent margin. Where is a link so that I may vote?

I think Obama won.

[bunklocoempire]

Certainly not the guy who was never an executive and spent most of his entire political career before running for President as a state senator and senator pushing for much harsher gun control laws.

Good try though.

There is no try with AF, there is only do.

Maybe someone will dig up where Romney signed this for you. I already passed that class and can't seem to find my notes.

[DeMintConservative]

No need to interpret what we all just heard. Call it a misspeak...but we all heard the job creator say government doesn't create the jobs he would create if he were in charge of the government.

It wasn't a misspeak. Maybe the entire point that the government doesn't create jobs but can prevent jobs from being created is too nuanced for you to understand?

[jay_dub]

It wasn't a misspeak. Maybe the entire point that the government doesn't create jobs but can prevent jobs from being created is too nuanced for you to understand?

No need to attack my intelligence in defense of your asshole candidate.

BTW, I'm pointing out a gaffe by Romney...not giving my own opinion on the issue. Is that too nuanced for YOU?

[cajuncocoa]

Obama probably came out better from this but he had help from the moderator and the questions.I agree.

[AuH20]

No mention of inflation, low savings rate or the surveillance state.

[MozoVote]

I'm not watching the debate, but from what I'm seeing here, it's about to turn into an old-fashioned duel.
I'm not watching this either. The media will set this stuff up so that the final debate "appears to" be the clincher.

[Anti Federalist]

Certainly not the guy who was never an executive and spent most of his entire political career before running for President as a state senator and senator pushing for much harsher gun control laws.

Good try though.

I don't vote for gun banners.

Period.

[James Madison]

No mention of inflation, low savings rate or the surveillance state.

Were you expecting a debate, or something?

[bunklocoempire]

No mention of inflation, low savings rate or the surveillance state.

Well, because that certainly has nothing to do with 'foreign policy'.

/s

[DeMintConservative]

There is no try with AF, there is only do.

Maybe someone will dig up where Romney signed this for you. I already passed that class and can't seem to find my notes.

You didn't get my point.

Another possible question would have been: which one of those men actually introduced, advocated and voted for endless gun control laws - not only bans but prohibition of interstate transportation of firearms, increasing taxes on sales, storefront sales requirements regulations, restricting gun purchases, banning the sale of firearms at gun shows, increasing licensing fees, etc.?


Knowing the asker personal hate for Romney and his simpathy for Obama, it was expected he'd try to suggest Romney's record on gun controls is worse than Obama's because he was the only governor. Which is a laughable suggestion for anyone who knows their record.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Well most of that sounded like canned talking points from campaign rallies. The only thing new that I learned was about gun control:

Obama wants to try passing a new assault weapon ban but knows he's going to get a split congress so won't be able to do it.

Romney thinks machine guns are illegal in this country. sssshhhh! - lets not tell him he's wrong...

-t

[DeMintConservative]

No need to attack my intelligence in defense of your asshole candidate.

BTW, I'm pointing out a gaffe by Romney...not giving my own opinion on the issue. Is that too nuanced for YOU?

So, what's your opinion? Do you agree with Romney or not?

Romney has been saying the same since ever.

[llepard]

No mention of inflation, low savings rate or the surveillance state.

Right, nothing to see here, move along.

Although one questioner brought up inflation issue.

Candidates cannot go there. Get Kennedy 'd.

[jclay2]

So who won the Debate............



NWO!!!!

NWO:958201
The People: 4

[muh_roads]

I fell asleep trying to watch it. Yes it was that retarded.

[DeMintConservative]

I think this was similar to the Biden/Ryan debate: tie in the toplines but Romney did better with the voters that matter.

Candy Crowley's bias was too transparent. Some of the questions were right out of Obama's campaign playbook and I've never seen a moderator giving cover to a candidate as she did in the Lybia question in my entire life.

[cajuncocoa]

Candy Crowley's bias was too transparent. Some of the questions were right out of Obama's campaign playbook and I've never seen a moderator giving cover to a candidate as she did in the Lybia question in my entire life. I have to agree with you here about the moderator. Shameless.

[RickyJ]

I wanted to see a fight. I could care less who won the debate, we all lose! The masses get most of their info from these debates which means they know virtually nothing of what is going on. If I had to judge who won by only getting info from this debate, I would say Obama won, but not by a significant margin.

[Jumbo Shrimp]

Candy Crowley's bias was too transparent. Some of the questions were right out of Obama's campaign playbook and I've never seen a moderator giving cover to a candidate as she did in the Lybia question in my entire life.

Her bias was so damn obvious, but don't expect NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, PBS, Huff Post, NYT, etc to even mention that.

[Keith and stuff]

Romney destroyed Obama. Where are the links so that I may vote?

[Jumbo Shrimp]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/557699_422203087841498_2086417031_n.jpg

[cajuncocoa]

Her bias was so damn obvious, but don't expect NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, PBS, Huff Post, NYT, etc to even mention that.You can be sure Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity will be whining about it tomorrow!

[Shane Harris]

The next debate is all about Foreign Policy. mmmm I can't wait

[Anti Federalist]

You didn't get my point.

Another possible question would have been: which one of those men actually introduced, advocated and voted for endless gun control laws - not only bans but prohibition of interstate transportation of firearms, increasing taxes on sales, storefront sales requirements regulations, restricting gun purchases, banning the sale of firearms at gun shows, increasing licensing fees, etc.?


Knowing the asker personal hate for Romney and his simpathy for Obama, it was expected he'd try to suggest Romney's record on gun controls is worse than Obama's because he was the only governor. Which is a laughable suggestion for anyone who knows their record.

LOL, "sympathy" for O-bomb-ya.

LOL, Ya got me, I'm a closet demmycrat all along. (and llepard doesn't understand economics) :rolleyes:

Sheesh.

I don't vote for gun banners.

That's a line in the sand for me.

[Jumbo Shrimp]

The next debate is all about Foreign Policy. mmmm I can't wait

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ROXS9_I1iWM/TYieT4EoXNI/AAAAAAAADzA/_imzCiwo7bc/we%2527re+gonna+free+the+shit+out+of+you.jpg

[James Madison]

The next debate is all about Foreign Policy. mmmm I can't wait

Drinking game idea:

Drink every time the candidates mention their undying support for Israel.
Drink every time they mention an AIPAC talking point.
Drink every time they say Iran with a nuclear weapon is unacceptable.

[cajuncocoa]

Drinking game idea:

Drink every time the candidates mention their undying support for Israel.
Drink every time they mention an AIPAC talking point.
Drink every time they say Iran with a nuclear weapon is unacceptable.I'll be an alcoholic within the first 15 minutes!! LOL

[jay_dub]

So, what's your opinion? Do you agree with Romney or not?

Romney has been saying the same since ever.

I agree with Romney about almost nothing.

On the 'jobs' issue, he keeps touting his energy policy and how many jobs that will create. He buys into the BS about Keystone, which is a concerted effort to subvert the property rights of private citizens in favor a pet project.

In the general sense, more domestic drilling does not alter the price of gas, nor does it affect gas prices except to raise the floor on them. We are contributing higher cost oil to the mix of the world's supply.

How's that? Oil from shale (which is where a lot of our production increases are coming from) is a lower grade and is more expensive to extract and refine. The same is true of the Canadian tar sands oil.

Oil is an international commodity that is priced as such. It's supply vs demand. Any domestic additions to supply will not change the overall game. In fact, our higher lift costs keep prices from dropping as low as they might in times of any over-supply.

The only way we could be energy independent on the oil front would be to nationalize the industry. It's doubtful even that would result in lower prices due to our higher lift costs. Prices could well be higher at the pump, not lower.

Romney's understanding of this is a massive fail.

[cajuncocoa]

Obama gets more time

By BYRON TAU (http://www.politico.com/reporters/ByronTau.html) |

Amid persistent complaints and interruptions from both candidates, President Obama ultimately got more than three extra minutes of speaking time than Mitt Romney during Tuesday's debate.

(PHOTOS: The in-your-face debate (http://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/10/scenes-from-the-hofstra-debate/000485-006641.html?hp=f3) | Also on POLITICO: Crowley defies contract, asks questions (http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/10/crowley-defies-contract-asks-questions-138679.html))

According to CNN's timekeeping, Obama got 44:04 minutes of speaking time, while Romney got 40:50.

Both candidates pressed the moderator Candy Crowley — sometimes aggressively — into allowing additional responses and back-and-forth exchanges.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/10/obama-gots-more-time-138699.html

[James Madison]

I'll be an alcoholic within the first 15 minutes!! LOL

The only way to watch the debate.

[hardrightedge]

I agree with Romney about almost nothing.

On the 'jobs' issue, he keeps touting his energy policy and how many jobs that will create. He buys into the BS about Keystone, which is a concerted effort to subvert the property rights of private citizens in favor a pet project.

In the general sense, more domestic drilling does not alter the price of gas, nor does it affect gas prices except to raise the floor on them. We are contributing higher cost oil to the mix of the world's supply.

How's that? Oil from shale (which is where a lot of our production increases are coming from) is a lower grade and is more expensive to extract and refine. The same is true of the Canadian tar sands oil.

Oil is an international commodity that is priced as such. It's supply vs demand. Any domestic additions to supply will not change the overall game. In fact, our higher lift costs keep prices from dropping as low as they might in times of any over-supply.

The only way we could be energy independent on the oil front would be to nationalize the industry. It's doubtful even that would result in lower prices due to our higher lift costs. Prices could well be higher at the pump, not lower.

Romney's understanding of this is a massive fail.

lol...ok...mitt romney doesn't understand supply and demand...get a grip

[AuH20]

Did anyone else's jaw drop when Obama point blank lied that global demand for oil is up??? Really??? Inventories are at decade highs. What he can't tell the American people is that our dollar is deemed less worthy by OPEC.

[heavenlyboy34]

I am impress with you people who could stomach that nonsense. I only heard bits of it while I was eating dinner because someone was watching it in the next room. I should've thought to turn it into a drinking game. Always next time...

[jay_dub]

Did anyone else's jaw drop when Obama point blank lied that global demand for oil is up??? Really??? Inventories are at decade highs. What he can't tell the American people is that our dollar is deemed less worthy by OPEC.

It's not a jaw-dropping lie.

"Global oil consumption increased by 0.7 percent in 2011 to reach an all-time high of 88.03 million barrels per day.1 (See Figure 1.) This rate of increase was considerably slower than in 2010, when oil consumption rose by 3.3 percent following a decline of 1.3 percent in 2009 due to the global financial crisis.2 China’s oil consumption increased by 5.5 percent in 2011, and China accounted for about 85 percent of global net growth.3 An increase in oil consumption of 5.7 percent in the former Soviet Union contributed another 37 percent of net growth.4 But these increases were offset by declines in the United States and European Union, where oil consumption fell by 1.8 and 2.8 percent."

http://vitalsigns.worldwatch.org/sites/default/files/Oil_Figure_1.png

http://vitalsigns.worldwatch.org/vs-trend/growth-global-oil-market-slows

Estimates for growth are down, but the trend is still for more oil consumption.

"Estimates of global demand growth were revised down to 0.7 mb/d for 2012 (to 89.7 mb/d) but kept at 0.8 mb/d for 2013 (to 90.5 mb/d). The IMF’s downward revision to its forecast of economic growth – to 3.3% in 2012 and 3.6% in 2013 – had been anticipated and does not affect our forecast".

http://omrpublic.iea.org/

[James Madison]

I am impress with you people who could stomach that nonsense. I only heard bits of it while I was eating dinner because someone was watching it in the next room. I should've thought to turn it into a drinking game. Always next time...


Drinking game idea:

Drink every time the candidates mention their undying support for Israel.
Drink every time they mention an AIPAC talking point.
Drink every time they say Iran with a nuclear weapon is unacceptable.

You're welcome.:D

[wgadget]

Certainly not the guy who was never an executive and spent most of his entire political career before running for President as a state senator and senator pushing for much harsher gun control laws.

Good try though.

Mitt Romney was given a grade of D MINUS by the Gun Owners of America.

http://gunowners.org/mittromney-2012.htm

[DeMintConservative]

I agree with Romney about almost nothing.

On the 'jobs' issue, he keeps touting his energy policy and how many jobs that will create. He buys into the BS about Keystone, which is a concerted effort to subvert the property rights of private citizens in favor a pet project.

In the general sense, more domestic drilling does not alter the price of gas, nor does it affect gas prices except to raise the floor on them. We are contributing higher cost oil to the mix of the world's supply.

How's that? Oil from shale (which is where a lot of our production increases are coming from) is a lower grade and is more expensive to extract and refine. The same is true of the Canadian tar sands oil.

Oil is an international commodity that is priced as such. It's supply vs demand. Any domestic additions to supply will not change the overall game. In fact, our higher lift costs keep prices from dropping as low as they might in times of any over-supply.

The only way we could be energy independent on the oil front would be to nationalize the industry. It's doubtful even that would result in lower prices due to our higher lift costs. Prices could well be higher at the pump, not lower.

Romney's understanding of this is a massive fail.

That has nothing to do with the issue we were discussing.

The question was: do you agree with Romney when he says government doesn't create jobs, entrepreneurs - like he was - do if the government doesn't handicap them?

[wgadget]

How drunk are all you peeps who had a swig every time Romney said he "knows what it takes to create jobs"?

[wgadget]

That has nothing to do with the issue we were discussing.

The question was: do you agree with Romney when he says government doesn't create jobs, entrepreneurs - like he was - do if the government doesn't handicap them?

I LOLed when Romney said government doesn't create jobs after he'd been going on and on about how as PRESIDENT he'd create jobs.

LOL

What an asshat.

[jay_dub]

I LOLed when Romney said government doesn't create jobs after he'd been going on and on about how as PRESIDENT he'd create jobs.

LOL

What an asshat.

Thank you for verifying the obvious irony in that.

[Anti Federalist]

Mitt Romney was given a grade of D MINUS by the Gun Owners of America.

http://gunowners.org/mittromney-2012.htm

Of course Negotiate Rights Away supports him.

[DeMintConservative]

Mitt Romney was given a grade of D MINUS by the Gun Owners of America.

http://gunowners.org/mittromney-2012.htm

Romney as endorsed by the NRA:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/260411-nra-endorses-romney-calls-him-only-hope-for-firearms-freedom


The National Rifle Association (NRA) endorsed Mitt Romney for president late Thursday.

NRA Executive vice president Wayne LaPierre and NRA Political Victory Fund chairman Chris Cox will formally announce the endorsement at a Romney rally in Virginia later Thursday evening. Vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan will also be on hand.


“In this election, there is no debate,” LaPierre said in a statement. “There is only one choice – only one hope – to save our firearms freedom and our way of life.”

and the GOA:

Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, acknowledged some hesitancy about Romney but said gun-rights activists were mollified by his selection of Ryan as a running mate.

"It created a lot more willingness to pull his lever, and at least some enthusiasm," Pratt said. "Ryan is at least one of us."


Romney is much better than Obama, an extreme and hardcore gun control militant, on the guns issues and it's not close.

Pretending otherwise is simply disingenuous.

[DeMintConservative]

LOL, "sympathy" for O-bomb-ya.

LOL, Ya got me, I'm a closet demmycrat all along. (and llepard doesn't understand economics) :rolleyes:

Sheesh.

I don't vote for gun banners.

That's a line in the sand for me.

Sure, I was just explaining how Candyesque was your question.

[Keith and stuff]

Romney as endorsed by the NRA:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/260411-nra-endorses-romney-calls-him-only-hope-for-firearms-freedom

and the GOA:


Romney is much better than Obama, an extreme and hardcore gun control militant, on the guns issues and it's not close.

Pretending otherwise is simply disingenuous.

Agreed. Though, the LP and Constitution Party candidates are both better than Romney.

[Anti Federalist]

That has nothing to do with the issue we were discussing.

The question was: do you agree with Romney when he says government doesn't create jobs, entrepreneurs - like he was - do if the government doesn't handicap them?


I LOLed when Romney said government doesn't create jobs after he'd been going on and on about how as PRESIDENT he'd create jobs.

LOL

What an asshat.

You, gentle poster, just won the Internet.

[AuH20]

It's not a jaw-dropping lie.

"Global oil consumption increased by 0.7 percent in 2011 to reach an all-time high of 88.03 million barrels per day.1 (See Figure 1.) This rate of increase was considerably slower than in 2010, when oil consumption rose by 3.3 percent following a decline of 1.3 percent in 2009 due to the global financial crisis.2 China’s oil consumption increased by 5.5 percent in 2011, and China accounted for about 85 percent of global net growth.3 An increase in oil consumption of 5.7 percent in the former Soviet Union contributed another 37 percent of net growth.4 But these increases were offset by declines in the United States and European Union, where oil consumption fell by 1.8 and 2.8 percent."

http://vitalsigns.worldwatch.org/sites/default/files/Oil_Figure_1.png

http://vitalsigns.worldwatch.org/vs-trend/growth-global-oil-market-slows

Estimates for growth are down, but the trend is still for more oil consumption.

"Estimates of global demand growth were revised down to 0.7 mb/d for 2012 (to 89.7 mb/d) but kept at 0.8 mb/d for 2013 (to 90.5 mb/d). The IMF’s downward revision to its forecast of economic growth – to 3.3% in 2012 and 3.6% in 2013 – had been anticipated and does not affect our forecast".

http://omrpublic.iea.org/

Economies all over the world, perhaps with the exception of Brazil are contracting.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy-Voices/2012/1015/Oil-prices-new-dynamic-too-much-oil-too-little-demand

Even China posted a drawdown in August as well as recently:
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20121015-701399.html

The President is misleading the American people once again. He knows damn well that to fluff up the S&P 500 (for exports) as well as to stabilize (through currency swaps) the flailing Euro banking system he needs to keep the dollar weak.

[Anti Federalist]

Romney is much better than Obama, an extreme and hardcore gun control militant, on the guns issues and it's not close.

Pretending otherwise is simply disingenuous.

O-bomb-ya talks.

RMoney did.

He banned guns in Mass.

Period.

[juleswin]

That has nothing to do with the issue we were discussing.

The question was: do you agree with Romney when he says government doesn't create jobs, entrepreneurs - like he was - do if the government doesn't handicap them?

Just wait for his argument about how cutting defense spending to lead to the loss of jobs around the country. Govt doesn't create job unless we are talking about the MIC. At least Obombo is consistent with his ignorance of economics

[bunklocoempire]

You didn't get my point.

Another possible question would have been: which one of those men actually introduced, advocated and voted for endless gun control laws - not only bans but prohibition of interstate transportation of firearms, increasing taxes on sales, storefront sales requirements regulations, restricting gun purchases, banning the sale of firearms at gun shows, increasing licensing fees, etc.?


Knowing the asker personal hate for Romney and his simpathy for Obama, it was expected he'd try to suggest Romney's record on gun controls is worse than Obama's because he was the only governor. Which is a laughable suggestion for anyone who knows their record.

Your point?

Your point would be (should be) based upon your view of the 2nd amendment. Knowing a bit about the 'asker' myself, his question seems to be in line with what I understand his view of the 2nd amendment to be -not some kind of 'gotcha' trick.

I'd be interested to hear what the 2nd amendment means to you and how it has led to your decision to push Romney. Leading to your point.

I imagine it might be some kind of 'last resort' view. Maybe you could walk me through your thinking.

[DeMintConservative]

O-bomb-ya talks.

RMoney did.

He banned guns in Mass.

Period.

You are factually wrong and, as per usual, misleading people about Obama's record.

He did a lot more than talking. He introduced, pushed and voted for gun control legislation as a legislator - he was one of the most radical gun control proponents in the entire country.

If, in your view, legislative work doesn't count as "doing" and is immaterial, one wonders why would you support Ron Paul.

[FrancisMarion]

First Question: Recent College Grad:

Blah, blah (look at notecard) blah, blah, (look at notecard), i need to find work because its most important to my parents, blah (looks up from notecard sheepishly)

Hopefully others don't follow this one in school selection.

[DeMintConservative]

Your point?

Your point would be (should be) based upon your view of the 2nd amendment. Knowing a bit about the 'asker' myself, his question seems to be in line with what I understand his view of the 2nd amendment to be -not some kind of 'gotcha' trick.

I'd be interested to hear what the 2nd amendment means to you and how it has led to your decision to push Romney. Leading to your point.

I imagine it might be some kind of 'last resort' view. Maybe you could walk me through your thinking.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

The question I raised was about Anti-Federalist proposition that Romney's record on guns is somehow worse than Obama's because he signed a law that got mixed reviews from 2nd Amendment advocates while Obama was pushing for far more offensive legislation.

Here's a take on Romney's record as a governor on this issue:
http://www.goal.org/newspages/romney.html

In any case, there's one thing that seriously matters in the gun control issue: who's more likely to appoint the best justices from a 2nd perspective? Does anyone wants to argue it's Obama - while keeping a straight face?

[RonPaulFanInGA]

O-bomb-ya talks.

RMoney did.

He banned guns in Mass.

Period.

Not to defend Romney that much, but it's a whole different ballgame when you're Governor of Massachusetts, which has the most one-sided partisan legislature in the entire country (with Democrats, mostly anti-gun ones too), and being President. The U.S. Congress won't pass an assault weapons ban now with Republicans controlling the House. But is there any doubt in your mind that if they did, Obama would not sign it?

[Sola_Fide]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

The question I raised was about Anti-Federalist proposition that Romney's record on guns is somehow worse than Obama's because he signed a law that got mixed reviews from 2nd Amendment advocates while Obama was pushing for far more offensive legislation.

Here's a take on Romney's record as a governor on this issue:
http://www.goal.org/newspages/romney.html

In any case, there's one thing that seriously matters in the gun control issue: who's more likely to appoint the best justices from a 2nd perspective? Does anyone wants to argue it's Obama - while keeping a straight face?

Don't you ever get tired of election after election having to do these "who is more likely to do x" scenarios?

They don't work. And if the Obamacare situation doesn't show you that (previously considered as) "conservative" judges are worthless for freedom, nothing will.

[TCE]

First Question: Recent College Grad:

Blah, blah (look at notecard) blah, blah, (look at notecard), i need to find work because its most important to my parents, blah (looks up from notecard sheepishly)

Hopefully others don't follow this one in school selection.

Best to live with your parents for as long as possible. Then when I move out, I'll have so much money it'll be crazy. Who cares if women will never love me?

[Anti Federalist]

You are factually wrong and, as per usual, misleading people about Obama's record.

He did a lot more than talking. He introduced, pushed and voted for gun control legislation as a legislator - he was one of the most radical gun control proponents in the entire country.

If, in your view, legislative work doesn't count as "doing" and is immaterial, one wonders why would you support Ron Paul.

Yes, he was.

Mandate Mitt signed a permanent gun ban into law in Massachusetts.

I support Ron Paul because, unlike Mandate Mitt, has never flip flopped on the Second Amendment.

He, in thirty years, has never voted for gun control.

Unlike Mandate Mitt.

Or O-bomb-ya.

Why are you on a liberty and constitution forum, hustling for a gun banner?

[Anti Federalist]

Not to defend Romney that much, but it's a whole different ballgame when you're Governor of Massachusetts, which has the most one-sided partisan legislature in the entire country (with Democrats, mostly anti-gun ones too), and being President. The U.S. Congress won't pass an assault weapons ban now with Republicans controlling the House. But is there any doubt in your mind that if they did, Obama would not sign it?

Yup.

W said he would sign one too.

That was pretty much it for me and the GOP.

[RickyJ]

Not to defend Romney that much, but it's a whole different ballgame when you're Governor of Massachusetts, which has the most one-sided partisan legislature in the entire country (with Democrats, mostly anti-gun ones too), and being President. The U.S. Congress won't pass an assault weapons ban now with Republicans controlling the House. But is there any doubt in your mind that if they did, Obama would not sign it?

The problem with Romney is after this long campaign, and the one in 2008, and his time as Governor of Massachusetts and even his run for Senator of Massachusetts in 1994, we still don't know the guy's core beliefs! Does Romney have core beliefs or will he always just sway whichever way the wind is blowing? I think he has no core beliefs other than making a lot of money.

[Anti Federalist]

You are factually wrong

In a move that will help keep the streets and neighborhoods of Massachusetts safe, Governor Mitt Romney today signed into law a permanent assault weapons ban that forever makes it harder for criminals to get their hands on these dangerous guns.

“Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts,” Romney said, at a bill signing ceremony with legislators, sportsmen’s groups and gun safety advocates. “These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people.”

Like the federal assault weapons ban, the state ban, put in place in 1998, was scheduled to expire in September. The new law ensures these deadly weapons, including AK-47s, UZIs and Mac-10 rifles, are permanently prohibited in Massachusetts no matter what happens on the federal level.

“We are pleased to mark an important victory in the fight against crime,” said Lieutenant Governor Kerry Healey. “The most important job of state government is ensuring public safety. Governor Romney and I are determined to do whatever it takes to stop the flood of dangerous weapons into our cities and towns and to make Massachusetts safer for law-abiding citizens.”

http://www.alipac.us/f12/romney-signs-off-permanent-assault-weapons-ban-261253/

[bunklocoempire]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

The question I raised was about Anti-Federalist proposition that Romney's record on guns is somehow worse than Obama's because he signed a law that got mixed reviews from 2nd Amendment advocates while Obama was pushing for far more offensive legislation.

Here's a take on Romney's record as a governor on this issue:
http://www.goal.org/newspages/romney.html

In any case, there's one thing that seriously matters in the gun control issue: who's more likely to appoint the best justices from a 2nd perspective? Does anyone wants to argue it's Obama - while keeping a straight face?

I'm asking: What does the 2nd amendment mean to you, and how does that view support your Romney vote.

I can take you through what my 2nd amendment right means to me, and how I arrive at my choice of candidate.

I may not agree with your choice of candidate, but I'd still like to try to understand your reasoning other than "X is better than Y". Sure you'll vote for one of them, but Romney and Obama are not you.

For example, do you believe the 2nd amendment is a last resort to prevent tyranny ...so therefore..? Do believe the 2nd amendment applies only to the armed forces...so therefore...? Or?

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

What does the 2nd amendment mean to you, and how does your view of it support your Romney vote?

[Anti Federalist]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

The question I raised was about Anti-Federalist proposition that Romney's record on guns is somehow worse than Obama's because he signed a law that got mixed reviews from 2nd Amendment advocates while Obama was pushing for far more offensive legislation.

Here's a take on Romney's record as a governor on this issue:
http://www.goal.org/newspages/romney.html

In any case, there's one thing that seriously matters in the gun control issue: who's more likely to appoint the best justices from a 2nd perspective? Does anyone wants to argue it's Obama - while keeping a straight face?

I don't know what kind of judges he would appoint since I can't believe a single thing he says.

This was the same argument used by apologists for W.

Roberts.

That is all.

I ain't drinking your kool-aid.

Peddle it elsewhere.

No One But Paul.

[fr33]

Romney is a gun grabbing, tax hiking, abortion supporting, stimulus spending, bailout supporting, war mongering, central planning fascist. That is his record. 8 more years of Obama's policies is worse than 4.

[Anti Federalist]

Romney is a gun grabbing, tax hiking, abortion supporting, stimulus spending, bailout supporting, war mongering, central planning fascist. That is his record. 8 more years of Obama's policies is worse than 4.

But, but, but, but MY gun grabbing, tax hiking, abortion supporting, stimulus spending, bailout supporting, war mongering, central planning fascist is better than their gun grabbing, tax hiking, abortion supporting, stimulus spending, bailout supporting, war mongering, central planning fascist.

[heavenlyboy34]

But, but, but, but MY gun grabbing, tax hiking, abortion supporting, stimulus spending, bailout supporting, war mongering, central planning fascist is better than their gun grabbing, tax hiking, abortion supporting, stimulus spending, bailout supporting, war mongering, central planning fascist.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again. damn, that was totally rep-worthy, too. Someone else +rep AF for me, plz? :toady:

[jclay2]

But, but, but, but MY gun grabbing, tax hiking, abortion supporting, stimulus spending, bailout supporting, war mongering, central planning fascist is better than their gun grabbing, tax hiking, abortion supporting, stimulus spending, bailout supporting, war mongering, central planning fascist.

Turd Sandwhich....Turd Sandwhich......Turd Sandwich

Giant Douche..... Giant Douche......Giant Douche


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5gXRPXs0PQ

Come on people. Wake up.

[Feeding the Abscess]

The problem with Romney is after this long campaign, and the one in 2008, and his time as Governor of Massachusetts and even his run for Senator of Massachusetts in 1994, we still don't know the guy's core beliefs! Does Romney have core beliefs or will he always just blow whichever way the wind is blowing? I think he has no core beliefs other than making a lot of money.

We already know what Romney's core beliefs are:

Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato

[cindy25]

But, but, but, but MY gun grabbing, tax hiking, abortion supporting, stimulus spending, bailout supporting, war mongering, central planning fascist is better than their gun grabbing, tax hiking, abortion supporting, stimulus spending, bailout supporting, war mongering, central planning fascist.

if it wasn't for Obamacare then gridlock would be best. Al Gore could never have passed the patriot act. but Obamacare changes things

[RonPaulFanInGA]

8 more years of Obama's policies is worse than 4.

This is a weak sauce argument for Obama. It's like saying you support Bush in 2004 because he'd only have four years left.

[RickyJ]

This is a weak sauce argument for Obama. It's like saying you support Bush in 2004 because he'd only have four years left.

I don't thing fr33 is saying he/she supports Obama, they are just saying 4 more years of Obama is better than 8 years of Romney. If one of them have to win, and it appears the elite will let nothing less happen, then Obama winning would be better for that reason.

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

We already know what Romney's core beliefs are:

Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato

"Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato."

"Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State"

Benito Mussolini did a nice job of condensing the essence of Fascism, didn't he?

Here's some other interesting things I've been reading. Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist, studied Fascist regimes from Hitler to Suharto, and came up with the Fourteen Defining Characteristics of Fascism: (http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm)

1. Powerful and continuing nationalism employing constant use of patriotic slogans, symbols, songs, flags.
2. Disdain for the recognition of human rights because security needs outweigh human rights which can be ignored.
3. Using enemies as scapegoats for a unifying cause.
4. Supremacy of the military.
5. Rampant sexism including more rigid gender roles and anti-gay legislation.
6. Controlled mass media.
7. Obsession with national security driven by a politics of fear.
8. Religion and Government are intertwined especially in rhetoric employed by its leaders.
9. Corporate power is protected--industrial and business aristocracies put government leaders into power and keep them there creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor power, which represents one of the few threats to fascism, is suppressed.
11. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts and hostility to higher education along with censorship of arts or refusal to support the arts.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption.
14. Fraudulent Elections.


http://burnedoutparanoiddemocrat.blogspot.com/2005/06/tutto-nello-stato-niente-al-di-fuori.html

[puppetmaster]

In a move that will help keep the streets and neighborhoods of Massachusetts safe, Governor Mitt Romney today signed into law a permanent assault weapons ban that forever makes it harder for criminals to get their hands on these dangerous guns.

“Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts,” Romney said, at a bill signing ceremony with legislators, sportsmen’s groups and gun safety advocates. “These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people.”

Like the federal assault weapons ban, the state ban, put in place in 1998, was scheduled to expire in September. The new law ensures these deadly weapons, including AK-47s, UZIs and Mac-10 rifles, are permanently prohibited in Massachusetts no matter what happens on the federal level.

“We are pleased to mark an important victory in the fight against crime,” said Lieutenant Governor Kerry Healey. “The most important job of state government is ensuring public safety. Governor Romney and I are determined to do whatever it takes to stop the flood of dangerous weapons into our cities and towns and to make Massachusetts safer for law-abiding citizens.”

http://www.alipac.us/f12/romney-signs-off-permanent-assault-weapons-ban-261253/

“Deadly assault weapons The second amendment has no place in Massachusetts,” Romney said, at a bill signing ceremony with legislators, sportsmen’s groups and gun safety advocates. “These amendments are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people stopping the tyranny of the US government.”

[cindy25]

This is a weak sauce argument for Obama. It's like saying you support Bush in 2004 because he'd only have four years left.

a better argument would be Obama = Rand 16; but there is still Obamacare to consider

[fr33]

If you think Romney will repeal Obamacare you are fooling yourself. He will expand on it.

[RickyJ]

If you think Romney will repeal Obamacare you are fooling yourself. He will expand on it.

He may repeal it, but then he will replace it with pretty much the same exact thing with a different name. Romney is bad news for America just as Obama is.

[devil21]

Romney: "Government does not create jobs".

WHOOPS!! The backbone for his campaign is that he is a job creator. LOL....

So, no reason to vote for Romney right?

This right here is a gem.

Romney is trying to win the presidency with a promise of creating jobs but says that Obama is wrong that government creates jobs. Ultimate doublespeak. If he said "I will remove government out of the private sector and let the free market create the jobs" then he would be differentiating himself from BO. Running as a president that can create jobs while criticizing the government for trying to create jobs is baffling. Great point. +rep

[devil21]

Drinking game idea:

Drink every time the candidates mention their undying support for Israel.
Drink every time they mention an AIPAC talking point.
Drink every time they say Iran with a nuclear weapon is unacceptable.

Doesnt #2 cover both #1 and #3?

[Bastiat's The Law]

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web05/2012/10/16/23/anigif_enhanced-buzz-20438-1350444335-4.gif

[BenIsForRon]

Umm...Is it safe to say that Romney wants a war with China?

I've gotten this impression from him many times. Really scares the shit out of me that anybody running for president would recklessly throw around rhetoric like this towards China.

[IronPatriot]

damn, that was totally rep-worthy, too. Someone else +rep AF for me, plz? :toady:

Got it.

[Noob]

If you think Romney will repeal Obamacare you are fooling yourself. He will expand on it.

Republicans said they would repeal the brady law, they failed to do so. They promised to repeal Obamacare and so fare failed.

[chudrockz]

I can honestly say that until I got up just a bit ago, I didn't even KNOW there was another "debate" last night. Without having seen it, I can summarize:

"You like to control peoples' lives; I like to control peoples' lives!"

"You like to spend other peoples' money, I like to spend other peoples' money!"

"You like 'doing' mass murder for evil, and so do I!"

"Hey, let's blow this pop stand and go watch some predator footage of Afghani children being blown to bits! That really gets Michelle hot!"

I've no interest in the insane babblings of two sociopaths.

[dbill27]

Does anyone wish that since it isn't Ron that it was Hermain Cain instead of romney, at least that would be entertaining.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhm-22Q0PuM

[belian78]

Sure, I was just explaining how Candyesque was your question.
You're one to talk about bias. LOL You've been drinking the Romney Juice before Rand made his mistake.

[pochy1776]

HERE's the Romney 5-Point Plan:

Mitt Romney (R)
1 Goldman Sachs $891,140
2 Bank of America $668,139
3 JPMorgan Chase & Co $663,219
4 Morgan Stanley $649,847
5 Credit Suisse Group $554,066

I prefer big banks to Universities and Government funded corporations.

[Philhelm]

Does anyone wish that since it isn't Ron that it was Hermain Cain instead of romney, at least that would be entertaining.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhm-22Q0PuM

I had thought the exact same thing a couple of days ago.

[DeMintConservative]

I don't know what kind of judges he would appoint since I can't believe a single thing he says.

This was the same argument used by apologists for W.

Roberts.

That is all.

I ain't drinking your kool-aid.

Peddle it elswhere.

No One But Paul.

And Roberts is still better than Hagan or Sottomayor and it's not even close.

I think this issue can be settled pretty quickly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

Funny how a proclaimed 2nd amendment advocate seems to ignore Heller.

Majority Scalia, joined by Roberts, Kennedy, Thomas, Alito

[DeMintConservative]

In a move that will help keep the streets and neighborhoods of Massachusetts safe, Governor Mitt Romney today signed into law a permanent assault weapons ban that forever makes it harder for criminals to get their hands on these dangerous guns.

“Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts,” Romney said, at a bill signing ceremony with legislators, sportsmen’s groups and gun safety advocates. “These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people.”

Like the federal assault weapons ban, the state ban, put in place in 1998, was scheduled to expire in September. The new law ensures these deadly weapons, including AK-47s, UZIs and Mac-10 rifles, are permanently prohibited in Massachusetts no matter what happens on the federal level.

“We are pleased to mark an important victory in the fight against crime,” said Lieutenant Governor Kerry Healey. “The most important job of state government is ensuring public safety. Governor Romney and I are determined to do whatever it takes to stop the flood of dangerous weapons into our cities and towns and to make Massachusetts safer for law-abiding citizens.”

http://www.alipac.us/f12/romney-signs-off-permanent-assault-weapons-ban-261253/

Again, gun rights organizations saw that bill as mixed. It had good parts and bad parts. It's very telling you're resorting to an anti-immigration organization.

Here's what the Guns Owners of America league had to say:
http://www.goal.org/newspages/romney.html

He also signed several pro-Second Amendment bills.

Secondly, I said you are factually wrong when you claim that all Obama did on guns was talking and therefore he has a better record than Romney on the issue. That's not true.

Your question was clearly biased.

Again, why didn't you ask: which one of those men actually introduced, advocated and voted for endless gun control laws - not only bans but prohibition of interstate transportation of firearms, increasing taxes on sales, storefront sales requirements regulations, restricting gun purchases, banning the sale of firearms at gun shows, increasing licensing fees, etc.?

It's just a rhetorical question, you don't need to answer.

[DeMintConservative]

This was funny:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/click/2012/10/kimmel-gets-debate-reactions-beforehand-138752.html

[ClydeCoulter]

This was funny:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/click/2012/10/kimmel-gets-debate-reactions-beforehand-138752.html

I can't even "facepalm" on that, .... just sigh...

[kylejack]

I prefer big banks to Universities and Government funded corporations.
Big banks are government funded corporations.

[Anti Federalist]

Your question was clearly biased.

Again, why didn't you ask: which one of those men actually introduced, advocated and voted for endless gun control laws - not only bans but prohibition of interstate transportation of firearms, increasing taxes on sales, storefront sales requirements regulations, restricting gun purchases, banning the sale of firearms at gun shows, increasing licensing fees, etc.?

It's just a rhetorical question, you don't need to answer.

Because that was not what I wanted answered.

Which one of the two men standing on that stage last night signed into law a sweeping, permanent gun ban?

Answer: Mandate Mitt Romney.

No amount of spin can change that fact.

[Anti Federalist]

And Roberts is still better than Hagan or Sottomayor and it's not even close.

I think this issue can be settled pretty quickly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

Funny how a proclaimed 2nd amendment advocate seems to ignore Heller.

Majority Scalia, joined by Roberts, Kennedy, Thomas, Alito

I wasn't jumping for joy over Heller:

(2) Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.

"Congress shall make no law..."

"Shall not be infringed..."

Means what it says.

[Anti Federalist]

It's very telling you're resorting to an anti-immigration organization.

Deflection and spin.

That was the first site to come up in a search on RMoney's press release.

Here is the "official" state of Massachusetts' press release.



ROMNEY SIGNS OFF ON PERMANENT ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN

http://web.archive.org/web/20040804033123/http:/www.mass.gov/portal/govPR.jsp?gov_pr=gov_pr_040701_assault_weapons_ban .xml

Legislation also makes improvements to gun licensing system

In a move that will help keep the streets and neighborhoods of Massachusetts safe, Governor Mitt Romney today signed into law a permanent assault weapons ban that forever makes it harder for criminals to get their hands on these dangerous guns.

“Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts,” Romney said, at a bill signing ceremony with legislators, sportsmen’s groups and gun safety advocates. “These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people.”

Like the federal assault weapons ban, the state ban, put in place in 1998, was scheduled to expire in September.

The new law ensures these deadly weapons, including AK-47s, UZIs and Mac-10 rifles, are permanently prohibited in Massachusetts no matter what happens on the federal level.

“We are pleased to mark an important victory in the fight against crime,” said Lieutenant Governor Kerry Healey. “The most important job of state government is ensuring public safety. Governor Romney and I are determined to do whatever it takes to stop the flood of dangerous weapons into our cities and towns and to make Massachusetts safer for law-abiding citizens.”

The new law also makes a number of improvements to the current gun licensing system, including:

Extending the term of a firearm identification card and a license to carry firearms from four years to six years;

Granting a 90-day grace period for holders of firearm identification cards and licenses to carry who have applied for renewal; and

Creating a seven-member Firearm License Review Board to review firearm license applications that have been denied.

“This is truly a great day for Massachusetts’ sportsmen and women,” said Senator Stephen M. Brewer. “These reforms correct some serious mistakes that were made during the gun debate in 1998, when many of our state’s gun owners were stripped of their long-standing rights to own firearms. I applaud Senate President Travaglini for allowing the Senate to undertake this necessary legislation.”

“I want to congratulate everyone that has worked so hard on this issue,” said Representative George Peterson. “Because of their dedication, we are here today to sign into law this consensus piece of legislation. This change will go a long way toward fixing the flaws created by the 1998 law. Another key piece to this legislation addresses those citizens who have applied for renewals. If the government does not process their renewal in a timely fashion, those citizens won't be put at risk because of the 90 day grace period that is being adopted today.”

“Never before has there been such bi-partisan cooperation in the passage of gun safety legislation of this magnitude in this nation,” said John Rosenthal, co-founder and chair of Stop Handgun Violence. “I applaud the leadership of the Governor, Senate President, House Speaker and entire Legislature for passage of this assault weapons ban renewal. They have shown that Massachusetts can continue to lead the nation in protecting the public and law enforcement from military style assault weapons.”



This law also greatly increased the fees required to have a "permit" to exercise your rights.

Mandate Mitt Rmoney is a gun banner.

O-bomb-ya is a gun banner.

I don't vote for gun banners.

No One But Paul

[Anti Federalist]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvjo24RVj61qcpgr3o1_500.gif

NO ONE BUT PAUL!!!!!

[Lucille]

Don't you ever get tired of election after election having to do these "who is more likely to do x" scenarios?

They don't work. And if the Obamacare situation doesn't show you that (previously considered as) "conservative" judges are worthless for freedom, nothing will.

The SCOTUS argument leaves me cold too. "Conservative" judges are police statists, and with the rate that beast metastasizing, we'll have "constitutional" surveillance cameras in our homes inside the decade.

Funny how "conservatives" claim they'll protect economic liberties, and "liberals" claim they'll protect civil liberties, and yet we've ended up with neither.

[Odin]

Romney is a gun grabbing, tax hiking, abortion supporting, stimulus spending, bailout supporting, war mongering, central planning fascist. That is his record. 8 more years of Obama's policies is worse than 4.

There are a couple problems with that - first, this is a deceitful, lying, corrupt administration which deserves to be kicked out of office no question. On a matter of principle, enabling them to get a second term would be devastating to the integrity of the nation. Second, when a crash does come in their second term, they will blame capitalism and enact "New Deal" style policies that will become impossible to get rid of. Third, I think the debates have shown a substantive difference in philosophy and policies between the two candidates. I think Romney is honest when he says that government is not the answer, because he is not an idiot and he has seen that in his business experience. Obama genuinely thinks that bigger government solves all problems.

No one is foolish enough to think that Romney is a libertarian by any stretch of the imagination but when it comes to big issues in the next 4 years - the appointment of Supreme Court justices, the government's reaction to a debt crisis, the continuing corruption and deceit perpetrated by the current administration, I simply don't see how anyone could view this as a superficial choice. Obama winning could have disastrous consequences that will last centuries - and stay with us our entire lives, and so knowing that it will be either Obama or Romney who is going to be the next president I have to vote for Romney, sure it is a choice between two evils, but one is still substantially better than the other imho.

[Anti Federalist]

The SCOTUS argument leaves me cold too. "Conservative" judges are police statists, and with the rate that beast metastasizing, we'll have "constitutional" surveillance cameras in our homes inside the decade.

Funny how "conservatives" claim they'll protect economic liberties, and "liberals" claim they'll protect civil liberties, and yet we've ended up with neither.

Hah hah hah, yeah that is funny...oh, wait.

[Lucille]

It's a false f'n choice, and I'm sick of it!

No matter who wins, we're screwed one way or another.

[Anti Federalist]

There are a couple problems with that - first, this is a deceitful, lying, corrupt administration which deserves to be kicked out of office no question. On a matter of principle, enabling them to get a second term would be devastating to the integrity of the nation. Second, when a crash does come in their second term, they will blame capitalism and enact "New Deal" style policies that will become impossible to get rid of. Third, I think the debates have shown a substantive difference in philosophy and policies between the two candidates. I think Romney is honest when he says that government is not the answer, because he is not an idiot and he has seen that in his business experience. Obama genuinely thinks that bigger government solves all problems.

No one is foolish enough to think that Romney is a libertarian by any stretch of the imagination but when it comes to big issues in the next 4 years - the appointment of Supreme Court justices, the government's reaction to a debt crisis, the continuing corruption and deceit perpetrated by the current administration, I simply don't see how anyone could view this as a superficial choice. Obama winning could have disastrous consequences that will last centuries - and stay with us our entire lives, and so knowing that it will be either Obama or Romney who is going to be the next president I have to vote for Romney, sure it is a choice between two evils, but one is still substantially better than the other imho.

But, but, but, but MY gun grabbing, tax hiking, abortion supporting, stimulus spending, bailout supporting, war mongering, central planning fascist is better than THEIR gun grabbing, tax hiking, abortion supporting, stimulus spending, bailout supporting, war mongering, central planning fascist.