WA-Mom coaxes son to "turn himself in" on minor pot charge. 24 hours later, son is dead.

[Anti Federalist]

Protected and Served, right, mom?

Yah, change those "policies", that'll set everything right as rain again.


Man busted for pot dies in Snohomish Co. jail

Published: October 14, 2012

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2012/10/14/2728440/man-busted-for-pot-dies-in-snohomish.html

EVERETT, Wash. — A 22-year-old man with severe food allergies died in the Snohomish County jail after a pot bust, and now his mother says she wants to know why.

Michael Saffioti died a day after turning himself in to face a misdemeanor marijuana charge on July 2, The Herald newspaper of Everett and KIRO-TV of Seattle reported. The Snohomish County medical examiner's office determined last week that he died from bronchial asthma brought on by his milk allergy.

Based on the accounts of two inmates, Saffioti's mother, Rose Saffioti, believes the attack may have been brought on by what he had for breakfast July 3.

She said her son brought along a bag of medications needed to control his allergies and asthma when his brother drove him to the Lynnwood Police Department, where he turned himself in on a warrant that was issued when he missed a court date.

He was transferred to the county jail because it has a medical unit, but once there, he was placed in the general population, Rose Saffioti said. The next morning, she received a call from a doctor at Providence Regional Medical Center Everett that her son was dead.

"He was scared," she said. "I said, 'You are doing the right thing. They are going to take care of you.' He said, 'I have a bad feeling that they are not going to take me seriously.'"

The sheriff's office is still investigating, spokeswoman Shari Ireton said.

Michael Saffioti's allergies were so extreme he would have to ask a girl about what she had eaten before he could kiss her, his mother said.

Relatives and friends attributed his legal troubles to his medical problems, which caused panic attacks and led to his use of anti-anxiety prescription drugs and marijuana. He had problems with drug abuse since his teens.

In 2008, Michael Saffioti, then 17, was given an alternative sentence for minor offenses that required out-patient drug treatment. At the time, a doctor wrote a letter saying his patient had "multiple potential life-threatening chronic illnesses, objectively documented" that required environmental controls unlikely to be found behind bars, The Herald reported.

In a later stay at the county jail for marijuana possession, his food was separately prepared and wrapped in plastic to avoid trace contaminants, Rose Saffioti said. The precaution earned Saffioti the jail nickname "Bubble Boy," and his family appreciated the jail's willingness to meet his medical needs.

(Appreciated???? Holy fuck I live in the Twilight Zone. - AF)

It's one of six deaths to occur in the jail since 2010. It's one of at least two that appear headed toward wrongful death claims against the county. Rose Saffioti, who is a nurse, has hired Seattle attorney Anne Bremner to pursue the case.

"My motivation is justice for Michael, policies changed, protocols changed, so that nobody has to go through this whether they have allergies, are diabetic or have cardiac issues," Rose Saffioti said. "Nothing is going to bring Michael back, but it can affect a change and that's what Michael would have wanted."

[phill4paul]

Which just goes to show that they can kill you EVEN if you totally submit to their will. Fuck 'em. I ain't goin' down THAT way.

[thehungarian]

I would have nightmares about giving my child a death sentence like that. You are not blameless in this, lady.

[Brian4Liberty]

This story is very familiar. Ah, the story is from July...

[CaptainAmerica]

"tough love"? or just ignorance?

[jbauer]

Well atleast they didn't shoot him. Heck did he have a dog? Maybe they need to go shoot it.

Not sure how they'll be able to sue the county for wrongful death unless they force fed the kid. Otherwise he did choose to eat breakfast. Now being there in the first place is an entire different topic.

[Spikender]

Damn.

[youngbuck]

This story hits fairly close to home. I have a couple loved ones with similar medical needs, and if they were to be imprisoned by a bunch of low-IQ goons, they could easily meet the same fate. The system is corrupt, through and through.

[thoughtomator]

Killed her own kid with her self-righteousness and big mouth and delusions about the professionalism of the state.

[Lucille]

And over what? A benign weed that, at worst, gives people the munchies.


Relatives and friends attributed his legal troubles to his medical problems, which caused panic attacks and led to his use of anti-anxiety prescription drugs and marijuana. He had problems with drug abuse since his teens.

Use or abuse? Pot is pretty great for anxiety problems.


"He was scared," she said. "I said, 'You are doing the right thing. They are going to take care of you.' He said, 'I have a bad feeling that they are not going to take me seriously.'"

There's a conversation that will haunt her for the rest of her life.


"My motivation is justice for Michael, policies changed, protocols changed, so that nobody has to go through this whether they have allergies, are diabetic or have cardiac issues," Rose Saffioti said. "Nothing is going to bring Michael back, but it can affect a change and that's what Michael would have wanted."

Well, maybe not.

[Spikender]

Killed her own kid with her self-righteousness and big mouth and delusions about the professionalism of the state.

"Don't worry, son, the state is here to help you with your drug problem. Now if you'd be so kind as to step into this rape cage, we can begin your rehabilitation immediately."

[Tudo]

Killed her own kid with her self-righteousness and big mouth and delusions about the professionalism of the state.


agree 100% and there's tens of millions of them out there

[coastie]

Wow-she'll never realize that she just ensured his death would come sooner, rather than later. The warrant would have come back to him eventually, and he would've suffered the same fate in that same jail.

Well, she brought him into this world, so she can also take him out of it, amirite, amirite?

So sad how this fucking drug war not only kills people, but it also seems to knock a population's IQ down about 50 points, evidenced by mom's faith in the system that killed her son.

[Muwahid]

They would have got him eventually without her advice. Kind of harsh to say she killed her son, lots of parents would suggest their child turn themselves in if there a warrant out for them. Better than getting pulled over for speeding and ending up getting arrested too.

[dannno]

It's too bad he couldn't smoke weed in jail, may have saved his life.


Latest research suggests that cannabis, also known as marijuana or ganja, can help in the treatment of allergies and autoimmune disorders that occur when body tissues are attacked by its own immune system.

...

The human body contains endocannabinoids, which are marijuana like substances. They are produced in the body naturally.

The researchers created a group of mice that lack the receptor for endocannabinoids and noticed that the mice soon developed a severe skin allergy to the nickel in the metal tags the researchers had fastened to their ears.

Zimmer set up a series of experiments to test the anti-allergy effect of natural and synthetic THC compounds and found that they reduced skin irritation by half.


http://www.medindia.net/news/Cannabis-can-Help-to-Treat-Allergies-Autoimmune-Disorders-21827-1.htm



Yes, weed is a miracle drug. If you don't think so, try paying attention to science. It has been shown to reduce the size of tumors. There are dozens of real medicinal benefits that relate to hundreds of medical conditions.

[Anti Federalist]

They would have got him eventually without her advice. Kind of harsh to say she killed her son, lots of parents would suggest their child turn themselves in if there a warrant out for them. Better than getting pulled over for speeding and ending up getting arrested too.

Harsh and justified.

You get an attorney and negotiate a surrender.

You get it on record that the "detainee" has severe health issues that must be attended to or he will die.

You take an adversarial role from the second the whole affair starts.

But these people sound like they have been chummy with the system that "treated him so nice before" for a long time now.

She rightly deserves a large portion of the blame here.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

So let me get this straight: you have a very sick man, who was unknowingly given food he was allergic to in prison, and he ate it despite knowing of his own allergies, and people are going to comment on this thread about the state killing him, as if he was taken into a backroom somewhere and shot? Hell, even if he was beaten to death in prison by another inmate, this faux outrage becomes justified. But this? Nope.

[phill4paul]

So let me get this straight: you have a very sick man, who was unknowingly given food he was allergic to in prison, and he ate it despite knowing of his own allergies, and people are going to comment on this thread about the state killing him, as if he was taken into a backroom somewhere and shot? Hell, even if he was beaten to death in prison by another inmate, this faux outrage becomes justified. But this? Nope.

When you are taken in by the state you become a ward of the state. DO YOU GET THIS?
His medical history was known. THE STATE, HIS WARD, ACTED IN NEGLIGENCE.
DO YOU GET THIS?
Just STFU already.
YOU are part of this problem.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Killed her own kid with her self-righteousness and big mouth and delusions about the professionalism of the state.


I would have nightmares about giving my child a death sentence like that. You are not blameless in this, lady.

No doubt that the mother is partly to blame, but I would put most of the blame on the 22 year old man himself, after all it's his life and his responsibility to protect himself. He put his life in danger when he decided to turn himself over to the hands of the State. A foolish move. RIP.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

So let me get this straight: you have a very sick man, who was unknowingly given food he was allergic to in prison, and he ate it despite knowing of his own allergies, and people are going to comment on this thread about the state killing him, as if he was taken into a backroom somewhere and shot? Hell, even if he was beaten to death in prison by another inmate, this faux outrage becomes justified. But this? Nope.

What do you expect the guy to do, not eat while in prison?

[Anti Federalist]

So let me get this straight: you have a very sick man, who was unknowingly given food he was allergic to in prison, and he ate it despite knowing of his own allergies, and people are going to comment on this thread about the state killing him, as if he was taken into a backroom somewhere and shot? Hell, even if he was beaten to death in prison by another inmate, this faux outrage becomes justified. But this? Nope.

We don't know any of that.

We don't if his meds were confiscated.

We don't know if he was misinformed about the contents of the food.

All we know is that a mother trusted the state, and encouraged a course of action that left her son dead.

And that's enough for me to be outraged.

[angelatc]

We don't know any of that.

We don't if his meds were confiscated.

We don't know if he was misinformed about the contents of the food.

All we know is that a mother trusted the state, and encouraged a course of action that left her son dead.

And that's enough for me to be outraged.

I would imagine they would not let him keep his meds. But they had the foresight to put him where the clinic was.

As a Mom, I'm not sure what I would do in this case. He missed a court date, so there's not much doubt they would be coming to take him soon regardless. At least by turning himself in, he was able to at least make sure he had the meds he needed with him when he went. But a fat lot of good that did him.

[TheTexan]

Another victory for the war on drugs.





Excuse me. War on us.

[PaulConventionWV]

So let me get this straight: you have a very sick man, who was unknowingly given food he was allergic to in prison, and he ate it despite knowing of his own allergies, and people are going to comment on this thread about the state killing him, as if he was taken into a backroom somewhere and shot? Hell, even if he was beaten to death in prison by another inmate, this faux outrage becomes justified. But this? Nope.

You obviously don't understand. Going to jail for pot caused this kid's death. Yes, the state caused it because pot is illegal. The mother helped by having so much faith in our prison system. The prison system doesn't give a shit about its inmates. Whether by negligence or some malicious cause, the guy died because he was busted for pot, of all things. This would not have happened if he had not been busted for pot, or at least if he had been treated like someone with special needs instead of a dog.

[Athan]

Killed her own kid with her self-righteousness and big mouth and delusions about the professionalism of the state.
It's sad, but I agree. She is in total denial that this was any of her fault. It's hard to blame a mom, but she is so thorougly brainwashed that it killed her son.
WHY WOULD YOU PERMIT YOUR CHILD WHO HAS EXTREME MEDICAL CONDITIONS TO VOLENTEER TO BE SENT TO JAIL?

[tod evans]

Whole bunches of failure here from weed laws to jail policy not to mention a grown adult advising her offspring to subject himself to jail.

County jails are the asshole of the prison system, the bottom of the barrel staffs them and far more prisoners have problems than they do in the pen.

On a federal level the war on us needs to end.

Locally the prosecutors/police and their auxiliary arm jail employees should never receive federal money for any reason! If it's up to the residents of the county or state to fund law enforcement undoubtedly the leviathan we now have would be smaller and more representative of the people.

Until the ability to print money out of thin air is taken away from DC we're all going to be subjected to ever increasing "law enforcement", afterall pay checks need to be justified.

[angelatc]

It's sad, but I agree. She is in total denial that this was any of her fault. It's hard to blame a mom, but she is so thorougly brainwashed that it killed her son.
WHY WOULD YOU PERMIT YOUR CHILD WHO HAS EXTREME MEDICAL CONDITIONS TO VOLUNTEER TO BE SENT TO JAIL?

But like I said above, her son was going to jail. He had missed a court date and there was a warrant out for him. Not going to jail was an option that no longer existed. He could either go to jail on his own terms, or on theirs. She talked him into doing the sensible thing. (Assuming that they're not millionaires that could afford to have him permantely flee the country.)

[donnay]

This story hits fairly close to home. I have a couple loved ones with similar medical needs, and if they were to be imprisoned by a bunch of low-IQ goons, they could easily meet the same fate. The system is corrupt, through and through.

God forbid they are diabetics and having a drop in their blood sugar. I have heard horror stories of what cops have done to these people, because the think they are drunk. It's truly unbelievable.

Cops are the standing army our founders warned us about!

[tod evans]

Cops are the standing army our founders warned us about!


^^^^^^^^^^^^^This! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Athan]

But like I said above, her son was going to jail. He had missed a court date and there was a warrant out for him. Not going to jail was an option that no longer existed. He could either go to jail on his own terms, or on theirs. She talked him into doing the sensible thing. (Assuming that they're not millionaires that could afford to have him permantely flee the country.)
Ah, ok. Well chalk up another victim of the war on drugs.

[jcannon98188]

God forbid they are diabetics and having a drop in their blood sugar. I have heard horror stories of what cops have done to these people, because the think they are drunk. It's truly unbelievable.

Cops are the standing army our founders warned us about!

As a Anarchist and a Diabetic, I am terrified that I will be sent to jail and something like this happen to me.

[asurfaholic]

Anyone who willingly complies with the justice system and willingly surrenders to the state obviously does not think they own their own body, and therefore deserve neither safety or freedom.

If you are charged with a crime, whether you are guilty or not, you should fight it every step of the way.

I have personally learned this the hard way.

[Lucille]

They all screwed up. He should have gone in with his lawyer, who would have made sure his deadly dietary needs would be met.


She said her son brought along a bag of medications needed to control his allergies and asthma when his brother drove him to the Lynnwood Police Department, where he turned himself in on a warrant that was issued when he missed a court date.

He was transferred to the county jail because it has a medical unit, but once there, he was placed in the general population, Rose Saffioti said. [...]

In 2008, Michael Saffioti, then 17, was given an alternative sentence for minor offenses that required out-patient drug treatment. At the time, a doctor wrote a letter saying his patient had "multiple potential life-threatening chronic illnesses, objectively documented" that required environmental controls unlikely to be found behind bars, The Herald reported.

In a later stay at the county jail for marijuana possession, his food was separately prepared and wrapped in plastic to avoid trace contaminants, Rose Saffioti said. The precaution earned Saffioti the jail nickname "Bubble Boy,"...

[misterx]

Killed her own kid with her self-righteousness and big mouth and delusions about the professionalism of the state.

Headline is misleading. He already had the charge on him. She just convinced him that it was better to turn himself in than stay on the run forever. It's sound advice. In many ways your life is alread ub over when you're on the run.

[misterx]

It's too bad he couldn't smoke weed in jail, may have saved his life.




http://www.medindia.net/news/Cannabis-can-Help-to-Treat-Allergies-Autoimmune-Disorders-21827-1.htm



Yes, weed is a miracle drug. If you don't think so, try paying attention to science. It has been shown to reduce the size of tumors. There are dozens of real medicinal benefits that relate to hundreds of medical conditions.

And bleach kills the aids virus, does that mean aids patients should drink it? Of course not, you have to look at what else it does to you. Have you people ever even been around someone who was high while you were sober? It's absolutely unbearable how stupid people are when they're high. Why would you do that to yourself? Do you really believe that it could impair your brain function that badly and not have any permanent effects on your brain over time?

[Jamesiv1]

When you are taken in by the state you become a ward of the state. DO YOU GET THIS?
His medical history was known. THE STATE, HIS WARD, ACTED IN NEGLIGENCE.
DO YOU GET THIS?
Just STFU already.
YOU are part of this problem.

You sir, are no lover of liberty.

[Ronulus]

The police succeed in keeping one more drug user off the streets........

[dannno]

And bleach kills the aids virus, does that mean aids patients should drink it? Of course not, you have to look at what else it does to you. Have you people ever even been around someone who was high while you were sober? It's absolutely unbearable how stupid people are when they're high. Why would you do that to yourself? Do you really believe that it could impair your brain function that badly and not have any permanent effects on your brain over time?

Hah, I'm high on cannabis all the time so you can go fuck yourself :)

http://cdn.topspin.net/secure/media/serve_by_sku/2800489/stream/25f8c2e7.jpg?e=1350570867&authkey=1350570867_cf2d5e56852bfffecc15b4b4b65bcbc d

[phill4paul]

You sir, are no lover of liberty.

:rolleyes:

[dannno]

Do you really believe that it could impair your brain function that badly and not have any permanent effects on your brain over time?

Cannabis doesn't impair brain function, in fact it enhances certain types of brain function.

Cannabis causes new brain cell growth-

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8155-marijuana-might-cause-new-cell-growth-in-the-brain.html


Have you ever thought that perhaps the reason why some people are less communicative while they are high is because their brain is trying to wrap itself around a greater amount of thought patterns than usual which can be quite distracting to the communicative process? MOST of the people I've known who are best at communicating with others on a basic level are like the people on Jersey Shore and Real Housewives - they are borderline retarded, but they are good at talking.

On the other hand, some of the most intelligent people in the world are easily distracted and anti-social - often having a difficult time communicating with others.

So maybe you shouldn't judge people completely based on their current ability to communicate?

[misterx]

Cannabis doesn't impair brain function, in fact it enhances certain types of brain function.

Cannabis causes new brain cell growth-

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8155-marijuana-might-cause-new-cell-growth-in-the-brain.html


Have you ever thought that perhaps the reason why some people are less communicative while they are high is because their brain is trying to wrap itself around a greater amount of thought patterns than usual which can be quite distracting to the communicative process? MOST of the people I've known who are best at communicating with others on a basic level are like the people on Jersey Shore and Real Housewives - they are borderline retarded, but they are good at talking.

On the other hand, some of the most intelligent people in the world are easily distracted and anti-social - often having a difficult time communicating with others.

So maybe you shouldn't judge people completely based on their current ability to communicate?

They aren't just less communicative, they are just plain sloooooow. Huhhh.......... whaaat? I don't understand????? that's all that comes out of their mouths. The immediate effects of slowed and impaired brain function are well documented, and undisputed by serious scientists.


You took the sensationalist headline "Marijuana might cause new cell growth in the brain", and changed it to "Cannabis causes new brain cell growth". Why would you do that? Because you are hooked on a drug, and you want to be convinced that it's good for you. I could cite certain studies that show that eating pizza is good for me, but we both know I'd only be kidding myself if I used that to justify eating pizza every day. I'd still die of a heart attack at 45, just like your brain function will still be impaired after years of smoking pot, regardless of what cherry-picked studies you use to comfort yourself.

The study you cited also compares marijuana's effect to that of prozac. I hope you aren't one of those people that says prozac, and other prescribed medications are bad, because that would make you a hypocrite.

According to the lastest and largest study of its kind, smoking pot does indeed have a negative effect on an individual's IQ:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48806423/Does_Smoking_Pot_Make_You_Dumber


He said the main lesson he sees in the overall study results is that to preserve one's IQ, it's best to avoid marijuana entirely, no matter what your age.

For the record, I don't care what you do personally, but drug use among children should be discouraged. There is too much misinformation on the internet and in popular culture that leads teenagers to believe it's safe to smoke marijuana when indeed it's not. Could it be that the powers that be are pushing this information to keep us all dumbed down with drugs?

[dannno]

They aren't just less communicative, they are just plain sloooooow. Huhhh.......... whaaat? I don't understand????? that's all that comes out of their mouths. The immediate effects of slowed and impaired brain function are well documented, and undisputed by serious scientists.


You took the sensationalist headline "Marijuana might cause new cell growth in the brain", and changed it to "Cannabis causes new brain cell growth". Why would you do that? Because you are hooked on a drug, and you want to be convinced that it's good for you. I could cite certain studies that show that eating pizza is good for me, but we both know I'd only be kidding myself if I used that to justify eating pizza every day. I'd still die of a heart attack at 45, just like your brain function will still be impaired after years of smoking pot, regardless of what cherry-picked studies you use to comfort yourself.

The study you cited also compares marijuana's effect to that of prozac. I hope you aren't one of those people that says prozac, and other prescribed medications are bad, because that would make you a hypocrite.

According to the lastest and largest study of its kind, smoking pot does indeed have a negative effect on an individual's IQ:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48806423/Does_Smoking_Pot_Make_You_Dumber

That's total bullshit. There are plenty of studies showing that long-term cannabis use does not have any statistical impact on mental cognition.


http://healthland.time.com/2011/07/19/study-marijuana-not-linked-with-long-term-cognitive-impairment/


The idea that “marijuana makes you dumb” has long been embodied in the stereotype of the slow, stupid stoner, seen in numerous Hollywood movies and TV comedies and going unquestioned by much of American culture. But a new study says no: the researchers followed nearly 2,000 young Australian adults for eight years and found that marijuana has little long-term effect on learning and memory— and any cognitive damage that does occur as a result of cannabis use is reversible.


You are talking completely out of your ass about bullshit pseudoscience funded by big pharma. And if you honestly think prozac and cannabis have ANYTHING significant in common you are a complete dumbass. Prozac destroys people's lives, it has permanent affects on the brain and causes a host of psychological and physical ailments.

[dannno]

Excessive alcohol abuse, on the other hand, causes irreversible brain damage.

One is legal, the other isn't. Think about it.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.htm

[dannno]

They aren't just less communicative, they are just plain sloooooow. Huhhh.......... whaaat? I don't understand????? that's all that comes out of their mouths.

That sounds a hell of a lot better than me explaining what causes that phenomenon in plain english to someone who is sober and then having them ignore it and still think they know everything. I'll take the stoner logic of attempting to have a better overall comprehension of the situation over your anti-logic any day.

[dannno]

Let me spell it out for you again:

When you are stoned, you are processing greater amounts of information coming from a greater number of sources, but you have to do all this with a single-core processor just like everybody else. That is why sometimes people who are stoned appear slower. They are trying to process a greater amount of information.

Have you ever been stoned before?

[misterx]

That's total bullshit. There are plenty of studies showing that long-term cannabis use does not have any statistical impact on mental cognition.


http://healthland.time.com/2011/07/19/study-marijuana-not-linked-with-long-term-cognitive-impairment/


I've already refuted your argument that you are processing greater amounts of information, that's simply not true.

You are talking completely out of your ass about bullshit pseudoscience funded by big pharma. And if you honestly think prozac and cannabis have ANYTHING significant in common you are a complete dumbass. Prozac destroys people's lives, it has permanent affects on the brain and causes a host of psychological and physical ailments.


This study is less thorough than the one I linked to, but if it makes you feel better about your addiction, go ahead and believe it.

I'm glad you can at least admit that alcohol abuse is dangerous, because most alcoholics refuse to admit that. I guess it's just easier to see the problems associated with substance abuse when it's not your particular addiction.

Your own study said prozac and marijuana have something in common. Once again you are quick to point out the side-effects of prozac, but you ignore its benefits. That's the inverse of what you do with your own personal addiction. I'm done with this conversation though, you've shown your intellectual maturity to be lacking by jumping to name-calling so quickly. Perhaps you've smoked one too many joints ;)

[dannno]

Pot Could Actually Improve Brain Function for Middle Aged Men

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/drug-law/uk-study-shows-middle-aged-males-marijuana-usage-not-detrimental


The latest study about marijuana published in the American Journal of Epidemiology this week suggests that cannabis may improve cognitive functioning in middle aged males.

The study was not small. The researchers from King’s College in London looked at 8,992 men that used illicit drugs at age 42. For the research, they took a second look at that group when they turned 50. What researchers found was that when given tests to determine cognitive functioning, the drug users fared a bit better than most. The study on all those participants found a positive association with past and or current illicit drug use on cognitive functioning.



Researchers find pot use improves brain function in bipolar patients

http://now.msn.com/marijuana-discovered-to-help-patients-with-bipolar-disorder


The patients who had gotten high showed improvement in areas such as processing speed, attention and working memory.



Here's a good description of what I was trying to communicate above:

http://www.benefitsofmarijuana.com/benefits.php


Marijuana, by its effect on the ANS, enhances both sides of the brain. Through increased Sympathetic action, left brain perception is heightened, while, at the same time, right brain reception is enhanced. This is a physiological fact. More blood, and cleaner blood, is sent to the brain, as in the “fight or flight” reaction. And because of Parasympathetic dilation of capillaries, which signifies relaxation, the blood supply to the entire brain is increased. More blood means more oxygen and consequently clearer and broader thinking. Since marijuana works on both sides of the brain, the most noticeable effect, in our fast-paced mind set, is one of slowing down, which blends the thrusting competitive attitude with the contrasting viewpoint of nurturance to arrive at a more cooperative balance. This experience is, however, not innate to marijuana, but to the mental set of the subject. When we are mellow, tired, and relaxed, marijuana is energizing and affords alertness, determination, and even strength. This variation in the physiological effects has caused great confusion from an either/or framework. And the balancing nature of marijuana (both/and) has not been understood. It both stimulates and relaxes, simultaneously, which equates to an unpredictable variation in effect that is solely dependent on the state of its subject. When the system is sluggish, as with natives in warm climates (Africa, India, South America), marijuana has been used extensively and for centuries to energize it:

[talkingpointes]

This study is less thorough than the one I linked to, but if it makes you feel better about your addiction, go ahead and believe it.

I'm glad you can at least admit that alcohol abuse is dangerous, because most alcoholics refuse to admit that. I guess it's just easier to see the problems associated with substance abuse when it's not your particular addiction.

Your own study said prozac and marijuana have something in common. Once again you are quick to point out the side-effects of prozac, but you ignore its benefits. That's the inverse of what you do with your own personal addiction. I'm done with this conversation though, you've shown your intellectual maturity to be lacking by jumping to name-calling so quickly. Perhaps you've smoked one too many joints ;)

Have you ever actually smoked pot or known anyone that smokes/d pot. I have to guess your the nagging holier than thou type. Please prove us wrong. Both of you have posted good points. Although I highly, highly am suspicious of your article. Also calling someone the equivalent of a pothead for their defense of the plant is kind of childish.

[misterx]

Have you ever actually smoked pot or known anyone that smokes/d pot. I have to guess your the nagging holier than thou type. Please prove us wrong. Both of you have posted good points. Although I highly, highly am suspicious of your article. Also calling someone the equivalent of a pothead for their defense of the plant is kind of childish.

But calling someone a dumbass is not? He said himself that he is a pothead.

No, I've never done any kind of drugs. I know lots of people that smoke pot, some like danno that are in denial, others that admit it is harmful, but they don't want to or don't have the willpower to quit, and others who did quit because they didn't like the negative impact it had on their lives.

I'm sure you're both going to say I shouldn't knock it until I've tried it. That is failed logic though, I don't need to put a bullet in my head to know it's a bad idea. Have you ever smoked crack, or done heroin? Danno knocks prozac, but he's probably never tried it. If you try it you might decide you like it. That's kind of the problem though isn't it? I'd rather not become addicted to something that is objectively harmful, if only potentially.

[dannno]

I'm done with this conversation though, you've shown your intellectual maturity to be lacking by jumping to name-calling so quickly. Perhaps you've smoked one too many joints ;)

Your intellectual immaturity came out first:


It's absolutely unbearable how stupid people are when they're high.


What a bunch of collectivist crap. Way to insult a good portion of people on the board :rolleyes:


Since marijuana works on both sides of the brain, the most noticeable effect, in our fast-paced mind set, is one of slowing down, which blends the thrusting competitive attitude with the contrasting viewpoint of nurturance to arrive at a more cooperative balance.

[misterx]

Your intellectual immaturity came out first:




What a bunch of collectivist crap. Way to insult a good portion of people on the board :rolleyes:

There's a big difference. I didn't say people who smoke pot are stupid. I said people are stupid when they are high. I think most pot smokers would agree with that and not take offense to it.

[dannno]

I said people are stupid when they are high. I think most pot smokers would agree with that and not take offense to it.

Ya, no.

[dannno]

That is failed logic though, I don't need to put a bullet in my head to know it's a bad idea. Have you ever smoked crack, or done heroin? Danno knocks prozac, but he's probably never tried it. If you try it you might decide you like it. That's kind of the problem though isn't it? I'd rather not become addicted to something that is objectively harmful, if only potentially.

Again, no long-term negative impacts from using cannabis. I think a bullet would have long-term negative impacts on your brain. In fact we saw in one study that I posted, adults who used ended up testing better 8 years later after consistent use than their sober peers.

Another logic fail from someone who is representing themselves as mentally superior due to lack of cannabis use.

Prozac will fuck up your world if you do it for any amount of time and then quit, especially if you quit cold turkey.

[Peace Piper]

They aren't just less communicative, they are just plain sloooooow. Huhhh.......... whaaat? I don't understand????? that's all that comes out of their mouths. The immediate effects of slowed and impaired brain function are well documented, and undisputed by serious scientists...

The Feds disagree with this (and themselves)

From the Fed Patent on Cannabinoid (main ingredient in CANNABIS) use:

Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases. The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia...

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6630507.PN.&OS=PN/6630507&RS=PN/6630507

Why do you think the Feds own a patent on the use of the main ingredient in Cannabis?

And why are they lying about the plant when their own scientists have taken out a patent? What are they doing patenting the use of an herb to begin with- if "we the people" ARE the US Gov don't "we" own the patent?

no, the Feds want to "award" the patent to the companies that donate the most...

Many Many people just do not seem to understand the importance of this, even here. I don't even know why I bother anymore...Most people apparently just read forums these days to find posts that agree with them


"...So, why is this important? Here is a legal document, in the public domain, which flies in the face of the US Government's stated position with regard to the classification of cannabis as a Schedule I substance having no "currently accepted medical use". Believe me, citing this patent stops the "medical marijuana is a myth" advocates dead in their tracks. They simply cannot argue with it. The forces that would keep cannabis illegal are vocal and well funded, but they are not impervious to persistent effort. The lynch pin in the War on Drugs is cannabis. Without the suppression and interdiction of this popular and widely used substance, there simply would not be enough "illegal drug use" going on to justify the huge amount of money and resources spent on "fighting drugs."

http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy/2008/jul/23/significance_us_govt_cannabinoid

Oh by the way, if it makes people so stupid what happened here?

• Aldous Huxley
• Aleister Crowley
• Alexander Dumas
• Allen Ginsberg. Poet.
• Andy Warhol. Artist.
• Annita Roddock. Founder 'The Body Shop'.
• Arthur Conan Doyle. Author, creator 'Sherlock Holmes'.
• Beatles.
• Bill Clinton.
• Bill Murray Arrested for possession
• Bob Denver.
• Bob Dylan. Poet, singer, song writer.
• Bob Marley. Poet, singer, song writer.
• The Bishop of Monmouth.
• Brian Eno. Singer, song writer. Signed 'Independent' list.
• Buddy Rich.
• Cab Calloway. Jazz musician.
• Carl Sagan. Author.
• Caroline Coon. Artist, founder 'Release', manager of the Clash.
• Carlos Santana. Musician, guitarist.
• Carrie Fischer.
• Cary Grant.
• Cary Mullis. Nobel Laurate, Biology
• Charles Beaudelaire
• Cheech Marin.
• Chris Armstrong. Footballer, tested positive.
• Chris Conrad.
• Chris Farley. 60's singer.
• Chris Rock.
• Conan O'Brian.
• Count Basie. Jazz legend.
• Dave Gilmour . Musician ; Pink Floyd.
• Dave 'Tinki Winky' Thompson - TV personality (UK); the Tellie Tubbie that was sacked.
• Dion Fortune.
• Dizzy Gillespie.
• Douglas Adams. Author.
• Dr Francis Crick. Nobel Prize winner.
• Dr Lester Grinspoon.
• Dr Mark Porter. TV doctor who says cannabis is not more harmful than alcohol.
• Dr Anne Biezanek (authoress)
• Dr R.D.Laing.
• Dr John Marks
• Dr W.B. O'Shaugnessy.
• Drew Barrymore.
• Duke Ellington.
• Eddie Ellison. Ex head of Scotland Yard Drug Squad.
• Edgar Allen Poe. Author, multi-drug user.
• Emperor Liu Chi-nu.
• Emperor Shen-Nung.
• Ernest Hemmingway. Author.
• Errol Flynn.
• Fela Kuti. Musician. Afro/jazz king.
• Felix Dennis. Publisher.
• Fitz Hugh Ludlow.
• Fran Healey. Musician; Travis.
• Francis Ford Coppella.
• Francis Rabelais.
• Francis Wilkinson. Ex Chief Constable of Gwent Police.
• Fredreich Nietzshe.
• Ganesh - Hindu God.
• Gary Johnson.
• Gene Krupa.
• George W Bush. Possibly the greatest living hypocrite.
• George Gurdjieff.
• George Melly. Jazz musician (early sponsor of Legalise Cannabis Campaign, Uk).
• George Michael. Singer.
• Gerard de Nerval.
• Gilberto Gil. Brazilian musical icon.
• The Greatful Dead.
• Hasan I-Sabah.
• Heinrich Khunrath.
• Helen Petrova Blavatsky.
• Henri Michaux.
• Herman Hesse.
• Hiero the Second.
• Howard Marks. Author, cannabis smuggller.
• Howard Stern, Admitted it on the radio.
• Hua T'o.
• Hunter S. Thompson. Smoked weed and snorted coke with George Bush.
• Ian Botham. Convicted Cricket legend.
• Irvine Welsh.
• Kurt Cobain.
• Jabir Ibn el-Hayyan.
• Jack Herer. Author 'The Emporor Wears No Cloths'
• Jack Kerouac. Author ' On the Road'.
• Jack Nicholson. Film actor.
• Jackie Gleason.
• Jackson Pollock.
• Jane Fonda. Actress.
• James Brown. Singer, song writer.
• Janis Joplin. Singer, song writer.
• Jesse 0Ventura.
• Jerry Lee Lewis. Musician, song writer.
• Jimmy Dorsey.
• Jimmy Hendrix. Rock guitarist, singe, song writer
• Jim Morrison. Musician, songwriter; The Doors.
• Joan of Arc. Accused of using 'witch herbs' (another name for cannabis).
• Joan Rivers.
• Joe Strummer. Musician, singer, songer writer; The Clash.
• John Belushi.
• John Denver.
• John F Kennedy. Popular US president (assassinated).
• John Keats. Poet.
• John Lennon. Musician, song writer; The Beatles.
• John Le Mesurier. Tried it but said it's not for him.
• Johnny Cash.
• John Peel. DJ, BBC broadcaster.
• John Sinclair.
• Judge John L. Kane. Chief Judge from the US District Court
• Julie Christie. Actress.
• Jules Verne.
• John Wayne. 'I tried it once but it didn't do anything to me.'
• Kelsey Grammar.
• Kirk Douglas. Actor.
• Kurt Cobain.
• Lenny Bruce. Comedian.
• Lewis Carroll. Author 'Alice in Wonderland'.
• Linda St Clair
• Little Richard. Musician.
• Lord Avebury.
• Lord Byron. Poet.
• Lord Deedes.
• Lord Tony Gifford. QC, civil rights lawyer.
• Louis Armstrong. 'Oh what a wonderful world'.
• Louis Hebert.
• Mark Thomas . Comedian.
• Marlon Brando. Actor.
• Martin Sheen.
• Mary Tyler Moore.
• Mick Jagger. Singer, song writer, The Rolling Stones.
• Michael Mansfield QC. Lawyer.
• Jade Jagger.
• JC 100. Fastest rapper in the west.
• JT Moore. Legendary white rasta guitarist.
• Mike Tyson.
• Miles Davis. Jazz/rock drummer.
• Mo Mowlan. Genuine honest politician.
• Modigliani. Sculptor.
• Montgomery Clift. Mentioned in his biography.
• Neil Diamond.
• Nick Hornby. Author.
• Niel Young. Musician.
• Norman Mailer. Author.
• Oasis. Rock band.
• Oliver Stone.
• Oscar Wilde. Poet.
• Pablo Picasso. Artist.
• Pancho Villa. Mexican bandit revolutionary.
• Paul Flynn. Uk Member of Parliament.
• Paul McCartney. Musician, song writer; The Beatles.
• Paul Simon. Musician, song writer.
• Pharoahs of Egypt. Traces in body samples.
• Phil Donohue.
• Phil Tufnell. Former test cricketer, now media celeb.
• Peter Fonda. Actor; 'Easy Rider'.
• Peter Sellers. Actor, comedian.
• Peter Tosh. Musician.
• Philip K. Dick. Science fiction author.
• Pierre Burton.
• Pierre Elliot Trudeau.
• Pink Floyd; Syd Barret and Roger Waters.
• Prince William.
• Prince Harry.
• Pythagoras.
• Queen Arnegunde.
• Queen Victoria. Used it for medical purposes.
• Ram Dass.
• Ray Charles. Musician.
• Rev Kenneth Leech.
• Richard Branson. 'Virgin'. Entreprenur.
• Richard Feynman, Nobel Prize Laureate physicist, founder of quantum electrodynamics.
• Richard Prior.
• Richard Wilson. Actor; 'One Foot in the Grave'.
• Robert Burns. Mentioned it in a poem.
• Robert 'King' Carter. Grower.
• Robert Anton Wilson. Author.
• Robert Mitchum. Jailed 90 days for possession of marijuana, 1949.
• Roger McGough. 60's liverpool poet.
• Rolling Stones. Rock band.
• Ronnie Scot. Jazz club owner, musician, busted on stage 1958, at his club in Soho, London.
• S Club 7. 'Super clean' pop band, busted in Soho, very embarrassing.
• Salvador Dali. Artist.
• Samuel Beckett.
• Samuel Taylor Coleridge. Poet.
• Shen Nung. One of the fathers of Chinese medicine. 2700 B.C .
• Sidi-Hidi.
• Sigmun Freud. Shrink.
• Sonny Bono.
• Stephen King.
• Sting/Gordon Sumners.
• Tariq Ali. Activist Writer.
• Tenessee Williams. Author.
• Terence McKenna. Author.
• Terry Gilliam. Actor, comedian;Monty Python.
• The Who. Rock band.
• Thelonius Monk.
• Timothy Leary.
• Tom Lehrer.
• UB40. Band.
• Victor Hugo.
• Vincent Van Gogh. Artist.
• Walt Disney. Cartoonist.
• Walter Benjamin.
• Whitney Houston. Busted at Hawaii airport but ran away.
• William Burroughs. Author, poet, artist.
• William Shakespeare. Playwright.
• William Straw. UK Home Sec Jack Straw's son. Cautioned for supplying undercover journalists in pub 'shocker'.
• Willie Nelson.
• Winston Churchill. British Prime Minister, poet, artist & multi drug user.
• Zoroaster. Persian prophet.

A hundred or so years ago the US Government, for various reasons, began lying about an herb used for 10,000 years for food, fiber, fuel and medicine. Now they can't stop.

The Drug War was not a failure, it is a resounding success. The Gov has used it to divide the population, take away our rights and confiscate property. All based on lies.

[Anti Federalist]

But calling someone a dumbass is not? He said himself that he is a pothead.

No, I've never done any kind of drugs. I know lots of people that smoke pot, some like danno that are in denial, others that admit it is harmful, but they don't want to or don't have the willpower to quit, and others who did quit because they didn't like the negative impact it had on their lives.

I'm sure you're both going to say I shouldn't knock it until I've tried it. That is failed logic though, I don't need to put a bullet in my head to know it's a bad idea. Have you ever smoked crack, or done heroin? Danno knocks prozac, but he's probably never tried it. If you try it you might decide you like it. That's kind of the problem though isn't it? I'd rather not become addicted to something that is objectively harmful, if only potentially.

So don't smoke it.

Why antagonize and proselytize to a bunch of people that enjoy it?

[JK/SEA]

whats wrong with smoking cannibis Misterx?....exactly...

[MelissaWV]

Is it even relevant at this point that he died from a food allergy and not from pot? I have no idea why, when someone reads this story, their instict would be to say "well duh pot is bad."

[acptulsa]

Is it even relevant at this point that he died from a food allergy and not from pot? I have no idea why, when someone reads this story, their instict would be to say "well duh pot is bad."

You ought to change your location from 'The Audient Void' to 'Flight 93'. 'Cause every time I turn around, you're trying to un-hijack a thread.

Well, when misterx gets this thread to Cuba, it ought to make danno happy. Nothing like fresh sugar cane when you have the munchies.

[misterx]

Is it even relevant at this point that he died from a food allergy and not from pot? I have no idea why, when someone reads this story, their instict would be to say "well duh pot is bad."

If you're referring to me, my post was strictly in response to a post about pot's benefits. I'm merely pointing out that it has negative effects too. If you people want to live in fantasy land and pretend that it doesn't, that's your business. I just thought I'd point it out for people who don't smoke but might be convinced to do so. My first instinct on reading this story was why can't people comprehend that he already had been charged, his mother simply urged him to face the charges against him rather than hide. Maybe pot effects reading comprehension too.

The list above is hardly a list of people to emulate. Mike Tyson, really? I could make a list just as long of famous successful people that have used cocaine. Are you going to start arguing that we should use that too?

[RonPaulFanInGA]

So don't smoke it.

Why antagonize and proselytize to a bunch of people that enjoy it?

Why do people antagonize people who smoke, drink, gamble, are overweight, etc.?

You make a choice, you have to live with the social stigma that comes with it. Too many seem to believe in freedom without consequences.

[Origanalist]

Why do people antagonize people who smoke, drink, gamble, are overweight, etc.?


Good question. Why do they?

[GunnyFreedom]

Pot Could Actually Improve Brain Function for Middle Aged Men

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/drug-law/uk-study-shows-middle-aged-males-marijuana-usage-not-detrimental





Researchers find pot use improves brain function in bipolar patients

http://now.msn.com/marijuana-discovered-to-help-patients-with-bipolar-disorder





Here's a good description of what I was trying to communicate above:

http://www.benefitsofmarijuana.com/benefits.php

As someone who put in hundreds of hours of research into this subject before introducing a medical cannabis bill in North Carolina, I want to add that there is far far more evidence for the benefits of cannabis than have ever been disseminated by major media, and that the negative effects have been greatly exaggerated by that same media.

[JK/SEA]

Good question. Why do they?

you won't get an answer. misterx-man is a hit and run kinda troll....

[Anti Federalist]

Why do people antagonize people who smoke, drink, gamble, are overweight, etc.?

You make a choice, you have to live with the social stigma that comes with it. Too many seem to believe in freedom without consequences.

So there is no such thing as freedom, as long as everybody is poking their nose into other people's business.

Got it.

[heavenlyboy34]

Doesn't the smoke entering the lungs cause damage? It is my understanding that vape-ing is a healthier way to get the benefits of cannabis. /curious

[TheTexan]

Doesn't the smoke entering the lungs cause damage? It is my understanding that vape-ing is a healthier way to get the benefits of cannabis. /curious

There's a shortage of legitimate scientific studies on the subject. Can't really say. I think its a fairly safe bet that smoke isn't good for you...

[dannno]

Doesn't the smoke entering the lungs cause damage? It is my understanding that vape-ing is a healthier way to get the benefits of cannabis. /curious

One of the premiere vaporizers on the market is the Volcano. It works OK. If you need this as medicine and cannot handle the smoke it is a great alternative. If you personally like to use it better than smoking then go for it.

For me, it doesn't work very well and I'm a light weight. I mean, it seems to be weak at low doses and at high doses doesn't seem to deliver in the same way as smoking.

The best way that I have found to keep my lungs in good shape is to smoke small amounts of very high quality herb out of a nice clean water bong. One or two hits and you're done. I think my lungs are happier after that then a vaporizer session even.

Another alternative is eating it, though it is harder to titrate. You can also smoke concentrates if you want to get really blasted but don't want your lungs to have to deal with a lot of crap.

[misterx]

you won't get an answer. misterx-man is a hit and run kinda troll....

It wasn't my post, but since you brought me into it, I'll answer for him. Maybe they don't want to be surrounded by people who are destroying their lives. Individual freedom is great, but individuals don't live in a vacuum. What others do to themselves does have an indirect effect on us. The state has no right to regulate things that don't have a direct impact on others, but people have every right to expect others to handle their individual business in a way that is not detrimental to the society that we all have to live in.

[GunnyFreedom]

It wasn't my post, but since you brought me into it, I'll answer for him. Maybe they don't want to be surrounded by people who are destroying their lives. Individual freedom is great, but individuals don't live in a vacuum. What others do to themselves does have an indirect effect on us. The state has no right to regulate things that don't have a direct impact on others, but people have every right to expect others to handle their individual business in a way that is not detrimental to the society that we all have to live in.

Well, we suffer from a social stigma on account of our support for Ron Paul. Abolitionists in the 1830's suffered a social stigma for supporting the rights of black people. Nicolaus Copernicus suffered a social stigma for putting the sun at the center of our system rather than the Earth. Throughout history, social stigmas have been more often stupid than not. It's generally the bad and harmful stuff that is considered wrong to stigmatize, because someone somewhere is making an obscene profit off of it and holds the gates of acceptable discourse.

[thoughtomator]

There's a shortage of legitimate scientific studies on the subject. Can't really say. I think its a fairly safe bet that smoke isn't good for you...

I wouldn't put too much money on that bet. The only proven-unsafe aspect of cannabis use is the risk of law enforcement.

[JK/SEA]

I wouldn't put too much money on that bet. The only proven-unsafe aspect of cannabis use is the risk of law enforcement.

yep, and potential judgemental narcs like our troll, who doesn't know what he/she is talking about. I'm 61. Grew up in the 60's. Smoked cannibis in my youth. I'm now retired ( at 55) own a 500g 3000 sq.ft home on a half acre, own a collector BOSS Mustang, go to Kauai yearly....have many friends like myself who also smoked cannibis and still do, who are productive members of society.....this mis-guided opinion about cannibis is......basically from a lack of education and life experience. I personnally don't know ANYONE who has a problem smoking, ingesting cannibis.

[misterx]

yep, and potential judgemental narcs like our troll, who doesn't know what he/she is talking about. I'm 61. Grew up in the 60's. Smoked cannibis in my youth. I'm now retired ( at 55) own a 500g 3000 sq.ft home on a half acre, own a collector BOSS Mustang, go to Kauai yearly....have many friends like myself who also smoked cannibis and still do, who are productive members of society.....this mis-guided opinion about cannibis is......basically from a lack of education and life experience. I personnally don't know ANYONE who has a problem smoking, ingesting cannibis.

I'm not saying it's as bad as other drugs, but it's not good for you. Surely you will admit that alcohol is unhealthy. Plenty of people drink a six pack every day and are successful, that doesn't make it something that should be encouraged.

[DamianTV]

Hypothetical

Which is worse, to be killed in a car accident by a Drunk Driver? Or, make alcohol illegal and get shot to death in the crossfire between two waring Alcohol Gangs?

Now, what would a viable third, or fourth, or fifth option to this Hypthetical be that did not result in the death or injury of anyone? Does this alternative option not consider that taking away a right from another is a form of Injury?

[JK/SEA]

I'm not saying it's as bad as other drugs, but it's not good for you. Surely you will admit that alcohol is unhealthy. Plenty of people drink a six pack every day and are successful, that doesn't make it something that should be encouraged.

I know LOTS of people who drink 3-4 shot coffee latte's in the morning, noon and night. Wired to the max and get in cars and drive like their in the Indy 500 with the road rage to go with it. How many of these idiots cause accidents?.....


I could go on about people with dogs on their laps while driving, eating, cell phone and text use. Yeah, there are laws against this but it doesn't seem to make any difference. People get killed because of this behavior. It really depends on who is driving. Not everyone is the same.

If you mean by 'healthy' not driving, and not what my lungs are doing...thats none of anybody's biz, because my friend, there are worse things in life that can affect health...like government, and the police state, and nosy assholes that like to control people......

[AFPVet]

The kid died because of negligence and the failed war on drugs. Chalk up one more death as a result of the WOD.

[misterx]

I know LOTS of people who drink 3-4 shot coffee latte's in the morning, noon and night. Wired to the max and get in cars and drive like their in the Indy 500 with the road rage to go with it. How many of these idiots cause accidents?.....


I could go on about people with dogs on their laps while driving, eating, cell phone and text use. Yeah, there are laws against this but it doesn't seem to make any difference. People get killed because of this behavior. It really depends on who is driving. Not everyone is the same.



If you mean by 'healthy' not driving, and not what my lungs are doing...thats none of anybody's biz, because my friend, there are worse things in life that can affect health...like government, and the police state, and nosy assholes that like to control people......

I'm not interested in controlling people, I'm just tired of having to deal with people who are high. The average person is dumb enough sober, throw pot into the mix and they are unbearable. And yes, I get equally annoyed with drunks, so stop acting like I support the war on drugs just because I think people should avoid them. Obviously I wouldn't be on this forum if I supported using government force.

[belian78]

There's a big difference. I didn't say people who smoke pot are stupid. I said people are stupid when they are high. I think most pot smokers would agree with that and not take offense to it.

I would take offense, and I know of a good many others that would as well.

[TheTexan]

I wouldn't put too much money on that bet. The only proven-unsafe aspect of cannabis use is the risk of law enforcement.

My point was that we don't know whether or not the smoke (not the THC, just the smoke itself) is bad for you or not.

The active elements of cannabis are another story. (obviously safe)

[misterx]

I would take offense, and I know of a good many others that would as well.

Oh well, nobody ever said you had a right not to be offended. If you're really offended by that, it makes me think you're like the alcoholic who thinks he can drive better when he's drunk. All the sober people around him can see how bad he's driving, but he can't see it because he's impaired. Maybe you should take an iq test high, and then try it again when you sober up, just as an experiment. I think you'll be surprised by the results.

[Lucille]

$10 Million Lawsuit Filed in Pot Prisoner Wrongful Death Case
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?429636-10-Million-Lawsuit-Filed-in-Pot-Prisoner-Wrongful-Death-Case

[Christian Liberty]

They would have got him eventually without her advice. Kind of harsh to say she killed her son, lots of parents would suggest their child turn themselves in if there a warrant out for them. Better than getting pulled over for speeding and ending up getting arrested too.

I agree she didn't kill her son, but if she's not awake now, she's an absolute moron.

She should be an easy convert to anti-statism.

Ugh... this story ticks me off unbelievably, in so many ways.

[Christian Liberty]

When you are taken in by the state you become a ward of the state. DO YOU GET THIS?
His medical history was known. THE STATE, HIS WARD, ACTED IN NEGLIGENCE.
DO YOU GET THIS?
Just STFU already.
YOU are part of this problem.

Agreed, I'm so sick of people who make excuses for them.

Forget about educating the world, we have to fight for our own forum:rolleyes:

[dannno]

So let me get this straight: you have a very sick man, who was unknowingly given food he was allergic to in prison, and he ate it despite knowing of his own allergies, and people are going to comment on this thread about the state killing him, as if he was taken into a backroom somewhere and shot? Hell, even if he was beaten to death in prison by another inmate, this faux outrage becomes justified. But this? Nope.

They put him in a cage for possessing a plant. That is kidnapping, the state should go to jail for that. If a child was kidnapped and they had a food allergy and they died from the food allergy, would you blame that on the child as well or would you appropriately blame the kidnapper?

This has got to be one of the worst posts in this entire forum.

[MelissaWV]

*shoots this thread repeatedly in the head*

It's the only way to be sure.

[Schifference]

I don't know how factual the movie Blow was but George's mother turned him in and so did his wife. That was really fucked up.

[kcchiefs6465]

I don't know how factual the movie Blow was but George's mother turned him in and so did his wife. That was really fucked up.
According to Jung, that is how it happened.

The movie actually follows his book 100%. They did a great job telling the story.

[tsai3904]

Video of Safiotti, who has extreme allergies, trying to make sure his food is safe to eat:

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/man-dies-food-allergy-shohomish-county-jail/nbhYh/

[Christian Liberty]

They put him in a cage for possessing a plant. That is kidnapping, the state should go to jail for that. If a child was kidnapped and they had a food allergy and they died from the food allergy, would you blame that on the child as well or would you appropriately blame the kidnapper?

This has got to be one of the worst posts in this entire forum.

But... that would require people to take responsibility for their own actions! The relativists can't have that. I mean, sure, if a statist locks someone up its not the best idea, but call it kidnapping, and the relativists will throw a fit!

They're more worried about politics than principle. I've long ago decided I want nothing to do with them.

[Dary]

...I'm just tired of having to deal with people who are high.

I'm tired of having to deal with people who aren't.

[surf]

I spent a night in this jail - Thanksgiving, serving a dui sentence many years ago. I remember getting a cellmate, Rocky the wife-beater, around 3am.

as a diabetic I was a bit concerned, but this was in the '80s and the cops actually seemed as concerned about having a diabetic in their jail as they did about anything else there.

just pointing out that times have changed.

[pcosmar]

I'm not saying it's as bad as other drugs, but it's not good for you. Surely you will admit that alcohol is unhealthy. Plenty of people drink a six pack every day and are successful, that doesn't make it something that should be encouraged.

actually,, alcohol has benefits (health benefits).. Thought it can be abused.

Of course,, too much oxygen will kill you too.

You do know that the human body produces and uses alcohol naturally don't you?

[kcchiefs6465]

I'm not saying it's as bad as other drugs, but it's not good for you. Surely you will admit that alcohol is unhealthy. Plenty of people drink a six pack every day and are successful, that doesn't make it something that should be encouraged.
There are a myriad of studies concluding otherwise.

The endocannabinoid system is fascinating. It appears clear to me, that we were meant to ingest this plant (if you belief in creationism) or that we became adapted to what cannabis offers (if you believe in evolution).

I've said it a few times but it bares repeating, "your brain on drugs," is based on a study conducted by a Dr. Robert Heath. The man perpetrated crimes against humanity. He experimented on non-consenting blacks, implanting electrodes or lobotomizing them for some disturbing reason or another and worked extensively for the CIA to conduct experiments on mind control. Recent studies have been shocking to some. From everything to regulating blood glucose levels to reducing "tar" in the lungs... the studies on cannabis use have been rather encouraging, medicinally. It seems I am being surprised routinely at another aspect cannabis has medically.

This stigmatization or seated feelings of the harmfulness of marijuana can be ascribed to nothing less than a near ninety year propaganda campaign which was enacted entirely as a result of racist inclinations.

[Ender]

There are a myriad of studies concluding otherwise.

The endocannabinoid system is fascinating. It appears clear to me, that we were meant to ingest this plant (if you belief in creationism) or that we became adapted to what cannabis offers (if you believe in evolution).

I've said it a few times but it bares repeating, "your brain on drugs," is based on a study conducted by a Dr. Robert Heath. The man perpetrated crimes against humanity. He experimented on non-consenting blacks, implanting electrodes or lobotomizing them for some disturbing reason or another and worked extensively for the CIA to conduct experiments on mind control. Recent studies have been shocking to some. From everything to regulating blood glucose levels to reducing "tar" in the lungs... the studies on cannabis use have been rather encouraging, medicinally. It seems I am being surprised routinely at another aspect cannabis has medically.

This stigmatization or seated feelings of the harmfulness of marijuana can be ascribed to nothing less than a near ninety year propaganda campaign which was enacted entirely as a result of racist inclinations.

MJ was also made evil because hemp was too big of a major competitor for the steel, oil, and cotton giants.

[kcchiefs6465]

MJ was also made evil because hemp was too big of a major competitor for the steel, oil, and cotton giants.
Yes, sir.

A pharmaceutical threat as well.

That some to this day equate hemp as "wacky tobacky" shows how effective the propaganda has been.