This guy thinks Ron Paul supporters would be better off voting for Obama than Romney

[sailingaway]

Me, I'm writing in Ron Paul.

It is interesting to read the article, but I couldn't help but laugh at how he had to phrase his plugs for Obama -- and this on Obama's identified 'good points'.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1181096.1349987635!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/tracey12e-1-web.jpg


At a town hall event in Ohio last month, Rep. Paul Ryan was asked why supporters of Ron Paul — the iconoclastic congressman from Texas — should back this year’s Republican ticket.

Appearing offended by the implication, Ryan scolded: “Do you want Barack Obama to be reelected?” Paul is a actually “friend,” he claimed, and the two are in agreement on key issues.

Baloney. Paul is one of only three GOP House members to not endorse Mitt Romney — and there are several reasons for this.

Leave aside that Paul is a man of deep principle, while Romney appears to have never held a sincere belief in his life. More important are their governing visions, which stand in profound conflict.

Paul was moved to run in the 2008 Republican primary largely out of his disgust with President George W. Bush’s foreign policy. You may recall the preemptive invasion of Iraq?

America’s misadventures abroad, Paul posited, have engendered “blowback” (i.e., anti-American resentment) around the world. This, in turn, has put our security at risk.

His rivals for the nomination were predictably outraged by the suggestion. A bitter Rudy Giuliani recently told me that Paul was intent on “blaming America” for the 9/11 attacks.

Those inclined toward Giuliani’s hardline way of thinking constitute the lion’s share of Romney advisers. Liz Cheney takes part in weekly conference calls with the campaign; former Bush officials and consummate warhawks like John Bolton and Dan Senor are major players.

By voting for Romney, then, Paul supporters would be voting for a return to the same neoconservative philosophy that mired us in the Iraq disaster, costing countless lives and dollars.

President Obama may have authorized a drone war and escalated ground troops in Afghanistan, but at least he has avoided launching another full-scale invasion.

This is not a petty distinction. Romney routinely gives assurances that he’d be far more likely to appease Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who has designs to attack Iran — perhaps in the coming months. Paul’s passions seem to be most enlivened by his unflinching opposition to aggressive war; for him, this dark prospect would be a nonstarter.

But the unbridgeable divide between Paul and the GOP is not limited to foreign policy.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ron-paul-avoid-mitt-romney-article-1.1181097#ixzz28z4WZ0pT

[ILUVRP]

"By voting for Romney, then, Paul supporters would be voting for a return to the same neoconservative philosophy that mired us in the Iraq disaster, costing countless lives and dollars".

to me this is the biggest reason not to vote for romryan , even during the debate last night ryan said america should have sent more troops to eastern afgh , biden said we have trained hundards of thousands afgh troops and why should we send american gi's to get killed when afgh has their own troops to send.

i agree with biden on this one, neo's love to send someone else to get killed for nothing , i am sick of chicken-hawks

let me add , much is being said about biden sneering and grining , if someone was pi$$ing on my head and saying its rain i would be sneering and grining also.

[sailingaway]

"By voting for Romney, then, Paul supporters would be voting for a return to the same neoconservative philosophy that mired us in the Iraq disaster, costing countless lives and dollars".

to me this is the biggest reason not to vote for romryan , even during the debate last night ryan said america should have sent more troops to eastern afgh , biden said we have trained hundards of thousands afgh troops and why should we send american gi's to get killed when afgh has their own troops to send.

i agree with biden on this one, neo's love to send someone else to get killed for nothing , i am sick of chicken-hawks.

Aren't we all. But his plug for Obama had to dance around drones and escallation and completely ignored Libya and now Jordan/Syria.

[LibertyEagle]

I still have a visceral reaction when I hear "Guiliani" and "911" in the same sentence.

[VBRonPaulFan]

I understand the strategy for wanting Obama to win, because it puts in place a better chance for success in 2016 - but I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I voted for Obama (or Romney).

[John F Kennedy III]

I still have a visceral reaction when I hear "Guiliani" and "911" in the same sentence.

But Guiliani was there on 9/11. Doesn't that automatically make him a hero?

[acptulsa]

Aren't we all. But his plug for Obama had to dance around drones and escallation and completely ignored Libya and now Jordan/Syria.

Amazing how much dancing the media does around the little fact that there's no difference between them at all.


techie, the best way in my opinion to handle the Tonys of the world is to concede their point and support it. Most particularly because this tickles the audience to this debate and wins them over to your side. This is important because Tony is most likely incorrigible--and if he isn't, he sure isn't going to convert to reason until after he stops getting rewarded for supporting bull.

So...:

You're right, Tony. They are different. For example, Romney promotes war openly. Obama promotes peace openly on the campaign trail, then flip flops once he's in office. That is quite a difference. Meanwhile, Obama promotes forced health care openly. Romney speaks out against forced health care openly on the campaign trail, then flip flops once he's in office. Romney openly supports corporations, and uses Bain to save companies like Monsanto. Obama speaks out against corporations on the campaign trail, then appoints an ex-Monsanto CEO as his Secretary of Agriculture. Obama supports big government programs, no matter how corrupt and incompetent they are. Romney condemns big, corrupt government projects on the campaign trail, then conducts projects like Boston's Big Dig and its deadly falling ceiling tiles.

You could go on and on with this, given a little research. But this should be enough by itself to swing the momentum your way. Give him hell!

[jbauer]

If GJ wasn't on the ballot in TN I would seriously consider voting for Obama over Rmoney at this point.....as sick and disgusting as that is to say.

[Elwar]

In all reality, as an employee of the lucrative military industrial complex, a vote for Mitt Romney is a vote for smooth sailing and big paychecks under an ever expanding military.

But that would be at the cost of an end to the country I was raised in.

Even being in Florida where the election could come down to a few hanging Chad's, I could never bring myself to vote for Obama.

I will never vote for evil, even if it were the deciding vote between a lesser and a better evil.

There is nothing like the feeling of walking out of the voting booth proud of who you voted FOR, as opposed to being hopeful that the person you voted against will not win.

And even though my write-in vote is not counted and I have spoken to and have spoken to Gov. Johnson through e-mail and could viably see myself voting FOR him, I am still writing in Ron Paul. Not for it to count, or be tallied, or to send a message or for any of that. But for me. And that good feeling walking out of the polls proud of my vote.

[FreedomProsperityPeace]

The idea of voting for Obama is ludicrous. As bad as Romney and Ryan are, they at least pay lip service to some of our principles (I'd never vote for them, either. I'm just sayin'. :cool:). Obama is completely opposed to us on everything. I'm sitting here trying to think of an issue where Dr. Paul and the president are in agreement, and I can't come up with one.

[Rudeman]

No thanks. I'll stick with voting for neither.

[CaptUSA]

They just don't get it. :(

[fr33]

I tweeted this link earlier today without fully reading it. :toady: At first skim I didn't realize he was advocating for Obama. Although I hope Obama wins (just so we have 2016) I wouldn't have promoted it.

[coastie]

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO WINS IT WILL BE MORE OF THE SAME.

FFS Already!

[WesSeid]

And even though my write-in vote is not counted and I have spoken to and have spoken to Gov. Johnson through e-mail and could viably see myself voting FOR him, I am still writing in Ron Paul. Not for it to count, or be tallied, or to send a message or for any of that. But for me. And that good feeling walking out of the polls proud of my vote.

Make your vote count for more than just personal (selfish?) reasons. If you want to feel good after voting, eat some ice cream.

[fr33]

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO WINS IT WILL BE MORE OF THE SAME.

FFS Already!yeah but it's 4 years vs 8 years. That matters IMO.

[sailingaway]

Make your vote count for more than just personal (selfish?) reasons. If you want to feel good after voting, eat some ice cream.

quit trying to argue people in Ron Paul's forum out of voting for Ron Paul. You can do that in 2012 Presidential section, but not here.

This forum exists for supporting Ron Paul.

attacking people who want to vote for Ron as SELFISH for wanting to cast their vote for the candidate they like best, is not OK.

[Matt McGuire]

Obama is completely opposed to us on everything. I'm sitting here trying to think of an issue where Dr. Paul and the president are in agreement, and I can't come up with one.

You are completely right. Although candidate Obama from 2007/2008 had some great rhetoric on a few things, such as the Patriot act and the war. But, as usual, he became part of the system once he was elected.

[WesSeid]

attacking people who want to vote for Ron as SELFISH for wanting to cast their vote for the candidate they like best, is not OK.
It's not that he's voting for Ron. It's that he said his vote won't even be counted. It's hard to have your vote promote Ron Paul-type values and liberty, or even Ron Paul himself, when it doesn't count.

But, ok. I'll go to the 2012 Presidential section and argue everyone should vote for Batman, because it will feel good.

[sailingaway]

It is your candidate's obligation to win votes, not a voter's obligation to vote other than with conviction.

[Monotaur]

I still have a visceral reaction when I hear "Guiliani" and "911" in the same sentence.

It could be worse...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IrE6FMpai8

*chuckle*

[GunnyFreedom]

It is your candidate's obligation to win votes, not a voter's obligation to vote other than with conviction.

In fact, I would argue that anybody who voted for RomBama is a traitor and an enemy of America, because any vote cast for someone that it is known they will abrogate, violate, or otherwise ignore the Constitution is a vote cast with the literal intention of transforming America into a ruined smoking crater of destroyed hopes dreams filled with millions upon millions of dead people and mangled corpses. JMHO.

[nobody's_hero]

It's only a theory, but for the sinister cynic, it is a tempting one:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOLyPMACvgc

[Tudo]

as if voting means anything at all

[nicklthomas]

Obama would be less likely to impose against Amendment 64 in Colorado if it does pass unlike Romney. I truly think that Romney thinks that Hemp and Marijuana are equivalent to Heroin. Obama is actually in some ways the better choice than Romney much like Aids is better than Ebola. This point I'm voting for Gary Johnson as I hope it is felt by the GOP.

[nicklthomas]

as if voting means anything at all

Yeah i'm really agreeing with this guy!

[tangent4ronpaul]

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ron-paul-avoid-mitt-romney-article-1.1181097?localLinksEnabled=false



At a town hall event in Ohio last month, Rep. Paul Ryan was asked why supporters of Ron Paul — the iconoclastic congressman from Texas — should back this year’s Republican ticket.

Appearing offended by the implication, Ryan scolded: “Do you want Barack Obama to be reelected?” Paul is a actually “friend,” he claimed, and the two are in agreement on key issues.

Baloney. Paul is one of only three GOP House members to not endorse Mitt Romney — and there are several reasons for this.

(who are the other 2 ???)

Leave aside that Paul is a man of deep principle, while Romney appears to have never held a sincere belief in his life. More important are their governing visions, which stand in profound conflict.

Paul was moved to run in the 2008 Republican primary largely out of his disgust with President George W. Bush’s foreign policy. You may recall the preemptive invasion of Iraq?

America’s misadventures abroad, Paul posited, have engendered “blowback” (i.e., anti-American resentment) around the world. This, in turn, has put our security at risk.

His rivals for the nomination were predictably outraged by the suggestion. A bitter Rudy Giuliani recently told me that Paul was intent on “blaming America” for the 9/11 attacks.

Those inclined toward Giuliani’s hardline way of thinking constitute the lion’s share of Romney advisers. Liz Cheney takes part in weekly conference calls with the campaign; former Bush officials and consummate warhawks like John Bolton and Dan Senor are major players.

By voting for Romney, then, Paul supporters would be voting for a return to the same neoconservative philosophy that mired us in the Iraq disaster, costing countless lives and dollars.

President Obama may have authorized a drone war and escalated ground troops in Afghanistan, but at least he has avoided launching another full-scale invasion.

This is not a petty distinction. Romney routinely gives assurances that he’d be far more likely to appease Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who has designs to attack Iran — perhaps in the coming months. Paul’s passions seem to be most enlivened by his unflinching opposition to aggressive war; for him, this dark prospect would be a nonstarter.

But the unbridgeable divide between Paul and the GOP is not limited to foreign policy.

Many supporters were first attracted to the congressman for his blunt words on the scourge of drug prohibition. Romney has failed to evince an iota of rationality on this front. In May, he was asked for his view on the legality of medical marijuana. “Aren’t there issues of significance you’d like to talk about?” he rebuffed.

Yes, it is true that under Obama, the Drug Enforcement Administration has continued to raid marijuana distribution facilities, while Marines have been deployed overseas on ill-advised drug interdiction missions.

But it’s equally true that Obama has demonstrated some measure of amenability to reform, at least rhetorically. The famously puritanical Romney would likely bring us back to the era of “Just Say No.”

If Paul supporters still believe their aims can be best advanced vis-à-vis the GOP, they are deluding themselves.

Rather than continue this abusive relationship, they must reevaluate — bearing in mind Paul’s track record of fruitful cooperation with the left, most notably Rep. Dennis Kucinich and Ralph Nader. Ron Paul faithful should thus take a cue from the man himself and reject Paul Ryan’s phony entreaties.

In states like New York, where the outcome is essentially predetermined, they should instead vote for a third-party candidate: Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party, Jill Stein of the Green Party, Rocky Anderson of the Justice Party or Virgil Goode of the Constitution Party.

In states that hang in the balance, such as Ohio, Florida or Virginia, they should pinch their noses and vote for President Obama — even if only to punish Romney, Ryan and the GOP.

Tracey is a journalist based in Brooklyn. He contributes to The Nation, The American Conservative, Salon and other publications.

-t

[sailingaway]

In fact, I would argue that anybody who voted for RomBama is a traitor and an enemy of America, because any vote cast for someone that it is known they will abrogate, violate, or otherwise ignore the Constitution is a vote cast with the literal intention of transforming America into a ruined smoking crater of destroyed hopes dreams filled with millions upon millions of dead people and mangled corpses. JMHO.

I may borrow your language next time I make that point. I was, in retrospect, kinda hard on one blogger who was saying why Ron Paul supporters have to support Romney in order to support the Constitution.... she was only 20.

I basically said voters like her were the reason we have the loss of liberties like indefinite detention of citizens without trial, the Patriot Act and debt slavery to finance development projects funding the military industrial complex overseas, where the money wasn't even recirculating in our country. That voting for evil allows it to continue and gives it legitimacy.

I neglected to tell her that until I figured out which end was up, I voted the same way myself.... :o

[alucard13mmfmj]

I just got my Official Sample Ballot

President/Vice President
Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan [Republican]
Gary Johnson/James Gray [Libertarian]
Roseanne Barr/Cindy Sheehan [Peace and Freedom]
Barack Obama/Joesph Biden [Democrat]
Jill Stein/Cheri Honkala [Green]
Thomas Hoefling/Robert Ornelas [American Independent]

"Write In Candidates: Pursuant to Elections Code 8606, Write in votes are not authorized for Voter-nominated offices at the general election"

US Senator
Elizabeth Emken [R]
Dianne Feinstein [D]

US Rep
Joe Baca [D]
Gloria Negrete Mcleod [D]

State Assemby
Kenny Coble [R]
Norma Torres [D]

------------------------------

Looks like I'll be voting for Gary Johnson. Possibly Obama (if Romney is doing good) to give Rand or another freedom candidate a chance in 2016.

[sailingaway]

I just got my Official Sample Ballot

President/Vice President
Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan [Republican]
Gary Johnson/James Gray [Libertarian]
Roseanne Barr/Cindy Sheehan [Peace and Freedom]
Barack Obama/Joesph Biden [Democrat]
Jill Stein/Cheri Honkala [Green]
Thomas Hoefling/Robert Ornelas [American Independent]

"Write In Candidates: Pursuant to Elections Code 8606, Write in votes are not authorized for Voter-nominated offices at the general election"

US Senator
Elizabeth Emken [R]
Dianne Feinstein [D]

US Rep
Joe Baca [D]
Gloria Negrete Mcleod [D]

State Assemby
Kenny Coble [R]
Norma Torres [D]

------------------------------

Looks like I'll be voting for Gary Johnson. Possibly Obama (if Romney is doing good) to give Rand or another freedom candidate a chance in 2016.

Wow! That write in legend is really misleading!!! That is for the non presidential offices only, because electors are the candidate for president and it is by separate statute. Check Elections code Section 8650:


Any group of individuals, equal in number to the number of presidential electors to which this state is entitled, who desire to be write-in candidates for presidential electors pledged to a particular candidate for President and Vice President of the United States shall file a declaration of write-in candidacy.

and 8651


The declaration of write-in candidacy for presidential elector shall contain the following information:

(a)Candidate's name.

(b)Residence address.

(c)A declaration stating that he or she is a write-in candidate for the office of presidential elector.

(d)Oath or affirmation as set forth in Section 3 of Article XX of the California Constitution.

(e)The date of the general election.

(f)The names of the candidates for President and Vice President of the United States for which the group of presidential electors are pledged.

and 8652


The declaration of write-in candidacy shall be filed with the Secretary of State no later than the 14th day prior to the general election.



and 8653


Only those names written on the ballot at the general election for the office of President and Vice President of the United States for which a group of presidential electors are pledged on the declaration of write-in candidacy filed pursuant to Section 8650 shall be counted as votes.

hence my forms for elector and the directions, patterned on a 'sample' the secretary of state's office sent me to use:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/106853479/elector%20forms%20for%20write%20in%20candidacy%20( plus%20directions)/elector%20forms%20for%20write%20in%20candidacy%20( plus%20directions)%20002.bmp

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/106853479/REVISED%20Directions%20for%20submitting%20Ron%20Pa ul%20elector%20forms.docx

note that a similar effort was successful in 2008 - scroll down for the certified write in candidates:

http://www.lavote.net/Voter/PDFS/ELECTION_RELATED/11042008_LIST_WRITE_IN_CANDIDATES.pdf

[alucard13mmfmj]

so i can still write in RP in california? ;s

[Liberty74]

No way in hell would I vote for a Obama. I am sure this author also believes Obama is a Christian and deserves another Peace prize. :eek:

Obama is pure evil. He is not a true liberal in the very sense of the word. Rather, he is what every other Democrat has become to be and that is a liberal fascist pig - a monster with a smiley face behind him.

[Anti Federalist]

You are completely right. Although candidate Obama from 2007/2008 had some great rhetoric on a few things, such as the Patriot act and the war. But, as usual, he became part of the system once was part of the system before he was elected.

FTFY

[Anti Federalist]

Make your vote count for more than just personal (selfish?) reasons. If you want to feel good after voting, eat some ice cream.

Ice cream would not fill the hole in my soul that would be burned into it by voting for either one of these reprehensible bastards.

No One But Paul