PDA

View Full Version : Ken Buck leading organization to oppose marijuana legalization in Colorado.




LudwigVonMisoSoup
10-08-2012, 04:39 PM
I searched and didn't see anything posted on this.

Ken Buck, former candidate for US Senate in Colorado, is working for 'Smart Colorado.' For those unfamiliar, Smart Colorado is opposing Amendment 64 (which would legalize marijuana for those 21 and older).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/11/ken-buck-smart-co-marijuana_n_1590035.html

Any thoughts on this? I found it interesting since he was championed by many to be a liberty candidate.

Smart3
10-08-2012, 05:11 PM
This comes as no surprise. He is a DeMint Republican - extremely socially conservative, but good on a number of other issues.

Tom Tancredo on the other hand SUPPORTS marijuana legalization! and we're +10 right now!

Jumbo Shrimp
10-08-2012, 05:12 PM
Any thoughts on this? I found it interesting since he was championed by many to be a liberty candidate.

He supports a state's right to choose it's drug policy under the 10th amendment. He doesn't want his state to legalize pot, but he respects other state's rights to do it if they do wish.

torchbearer
10-08-2012, 05:32 PM
i don't see how a person can call themself a christian, and then go on to innitiate violence against their neighbor because of what they see as sinful behavior.
is this what christianity become? a lynch mob to use government violence against sin? doesn't sound like something jesus would do... but oh well, jesus is just a word that is used to fill the coffers.

Brett85
10-08-2012, 05:50 PM
This comes as no surprise. He is a DeMint Republican - extremely socially conservative, but good on a number of other issues.

Tom Tancredo on the other hand SUPPORTS marijuana legalization! and we're +10 right now!

Even if this amendment passes, is there any way the new law will actually be able to take affect? Both Romney and Obama support using federal drug laws to prohibit any state from legalizing marijuana. Is there any way to get around that?

Jumbo Shrimp
10-08-2012, 05:51 PM
Even if this amendment passes, is there any way the new law will actually be able to take affect? Both Romney and Obama support using federal drug laws to prohibit any state from legalizing marijuana. Is there any way to get around that?

Arresting federal agents.

pacelli
10-08-2012, 05:55 PM
one of C4L's finest....

count me out.

Brett85
10-08-2012, 05:55 PM
Arresting federal agents.

That would be nice, but how likely is that to ever happen?

torchbearer
10-08-2012, 05:57 PM
That would be nice, but how likely is that to ever happen?


never, nunca!
the fed government take a huge chunk of money from the state's citizens through withholding income taxes.
the state wants that money back, so they have to suck Uncle Sam's nut sack.

Keith and stuff
10-08-2012, 05:58 PM
That would be nice, but how likely is that to ever happen?

If it passes, we will just have to see what happens. If things turn out poorly, maybe the people of CO can vote in 2016 on whether to arrest federal agents breaking state law or not.

Hopefully this passes. Is C4L in CO helping push this into passing?

trey4sports
10-08-2012, 06:00 PM
That would be nice, but how likely is that to ever happen?

In most medical marijuana states some dispensaries will get busted but the business keeps going. So there will be many dispensaries busted in CO but it will be the equivalent of whack-a-mole.

trey4sports
10-08-2012, 06:00 PM
That would be nice, but how likely is that to ever happen?

In most medical marijuana states some dispensaries will get busted but the business keeps going. So there will be many dispensaries busted in CO but it will be the equivalent of whack-a-mole.

AFPVet
10-08-2012, 06:30 PM
Well Torch, Christianity has its extremist nuts just like other religions, but most Christians wouldn't consider cannabis use as anymore "sinful" than drinking a glass of wine. This is less about religion as it is about government control influenced by big industry.

torchbearer
10-08-2012, 06:37 PM
Well Torch, Christianity has its extremist nuts just like other religions, but most Christians wouldn't consider cannabis use as anymore "sinful" than drinking a glass of wine. This is less about religion as it is about government control influenced by big industry.

aren't the social conservative the christian right? why can't the christians who understand the violence involved in this matter reach out to their christian brothers who don't see it and ask them to stop the madness in a direct and meaningful manner? this is not cool.

juleswin
10-08-2012, 06:41 PM
Well Torch, Christianity has its extremist nuts just like other religions, but most Christians wouldn't consider cannabis use as anymore "sinful" than drinking a glass of wine. This is less about religion as it is about government control influenced by big industry.

Exactly, my mom would always say "its between him and his God". That is the kind of christian I like, christians that understand that even if he/she rejects the behaviour can understand that they has no right to judge other people. You can try and advice these people and show them the right way by your words and action, but if everything fails, then God will pick up the slack.

For the love of God folks, quit playing God

TCE
10-08-2012, 07:11 PM
When the state itself is not enforcing the laws against marijuana, it makes it very hard for the federal laws to be carried out. If the federal government wants to take agents from other areas and place them in Colorado to enforce federal drug laws, hey, be my guest. It won't happen. Instead, the state officials will no longer have state mandates and it will be completely up to the feds. In most states, especially in rural areas, how many of you see federal agents daily? It is mostly enforcement at the state level.

invisible
10-08-2012, 07:21 PM
Even if this amendment passes, is there any way the new law will actually be able to take affect? Both Romney and Obama support using federal drug laws to prohibit any state from legalizing marijuana. Is there any way to get around that?

Jury nullification seemed to work better than arresting federal agents, at least here in NH it did.

This whole thing strikes me as odd. IIIRC, CFL spent like $300,000 on tv ads for this guy (buck) in the last midterm elections. Looks like those who thought that to be a bad decision have now been vindicated.

jkob
10-08-2012, 07:29 PM
glad he didnt win now

ninepointfive
10-08-2012, 07:43 PM
That would be nice, but how likely is that to ever happen?

Constitutional Sheriffs

FSP-Rebel
10-08-2012, 07:53 PM
I think Buck is just in this to make a few bucks. What better way to rally republicans against this measure and potentially another reason for people to go to the polls and vote for R-money as well than to pick this dude that ran most recently for Senate. Referendums typically bring out single issue voters and that tends to be good or bad for the top of ticket.

ninepointfive
10-08-2012, 08:16 PM
His wife Perry Buck is a candidate for some office. forget which one

DamianTV
10-08-2012, 08:17 PM
Big Pharma is at it again.

http://rense.com/1.imagesH/pharmsplash.jpg

angelatc
10-08-2012, 08:19 PM
This comes as no surprise. He is a DeMint Republican - extremely socially conservative, but good on a number of other issues.

Tom Tancredo on the other hand SUPPORTS marijuana legalization! and we're +10 right now!

Isn't Tancredo a hawk, though?

wrestlingwes_8
10-08-2012, 08:33 PM
He supports a state's right to choose it's drug policy under the 10th amendment. He doesn't want his state to legalize pot, but he respects other state's rights to do it if they do wish.

A.K.A. - He doesn't support a person's freedom to do whatever he wants with his body as long as he doesn't harm anyone else. So yeah go ahead, keep pretending this guy is a defender of freedom

Keith and stuff
10-08-2012, 08:35 PM
A.K.A. - He doesn't support a person's freedom to do whatever he wants with his body as long as he doesn't harm anyone else. So yeah go ahead, keep pretending this guy is a defender of freedom

Isn't Rand Paul opposed to legalizing marijuana. I'm not sure but I heard he was even opposed to medical marijuana and decrim. Some liberty people don't understand the concepts or do but like to go along with party leaders to get along.

wrestlingwes_8
10-08-2012, 08:38 PM
Isn't Rand Paul opposed to legalizing marijuana. I'm not sure but I heard he was even opposed to medical marijuana and decrim. Some liberty people don't understand the concepts or do but like to go along with party leaders to get along.

Not sure. Voting for sanctions and endorsing Mittens are enough for me to not count him as a defender of liberty either. Though, he did do well with his last vote to not continue war-like aggressions against Iran

Shane Harris
10-08-2012, 08:47 PM
if it passes then it will be more trouble than its worth for the feds to fight it, imo. it is more manageable for them to fight medical marijuana because it is easier to pinpoint. they wouldn't even be able to begin fighting back with this amendment, because the ramifications will be so far spread and people will fight back against them legally. they can't afford it.

youngbuck
10-08-2012, 08:47 PM
Arresting federal agents.

I would quit school and my related career and become a cop just to do that.:eek:

LudwigVonMisoSoup
10-08-2012, 08:53 PM
To me, this issue defines whether you're a true liberty candidate or not. Do you believe it is fundamentally wrong to use state force to cage non-violent marijuana/drug users in prison or not? If he's doing it for money, that makes Ken Buck a political opportunist. It also calls into question whether Buck was trying to ride the liberty coattails of Ron Paul/Tea Party to get into the senate. This is a cautionary tale to vet which candidates to support. Reminds me all too much of Bob Barr. Too many statists in sheep's clothing.

Sola_Fide
10-08-2012, 08:54 PM
i don't see how a person can call themself a christian, and then go on to innitiate violence against their neighbor because of what they see as sinful behavior.
is this what christianity become? a lynch mob to use government violence against sin? doesn't sound like something jesus would do... but oh well, jesus is just a word that is used to fill the coffers.

Why do you assume that every Christian who is involved politically supports government force like that? It doesn't seem right to me for you to make those kind of generalizations. For every Christian who supports intervention, I can show you one who is fighting intervention. Take Back Kentucky is full of Christians and they are about as non-interventionist as you can get for a politically active organization. Again, this is just my experience...

torchbearer
10-08-2012, 08:57 PM
Why do you assume that every Christian who is involved politically supports government force like that? ...

i don't assume every christian who is involved politically support force. that is why i asked:

why can't the christians who understand the violence involved in this matter reach out to their christian brothers who don't see it and ask them to stop the madness in a direct and meaningful manner? this is not cool.


in post number 14.

ninepointfive
10-08-2012, 09:14 PM
I would quit school and my related career and become a cop just to do that.:eek:

Run for Sheriff, and yes - you can arrest federal agents if you and your deputies have got the balls to do it.

HOLLYWOOD
10-08-2012, 10:07 PM
SIMPLY: 10th Amendment should trump No Amendment


They had an amendment to ban alcohol... if they want to ban MJ, then, they can get the states to ratify one... until then, 10th Amendment SHOULD overule.

The Free Hornet
10-08-2012, 10:35 PM
He supports a state's right to choose it's drug policy under the 10th amendment. He doesn't want his state to legalize pot, but he respects other state's rights to do it if they do wish.

Then fuck him. Clearly Ken Buck is not a liberty candidate by any stretch of the imagination. He is actively supporting prohibition which is different from supporting someone's right to pursue those policies in their jurisdiction. There is no freedom or political philosophy by which people are free from judgement, only that they are free from outside forces interfering. The hell with Ken Buck.

Also, I doubt that Ken Buck supports states' rights. It is clear he doesn't give a fuck about individual rights, but his organization "Colorado Smart" has urged additional Fed intervention into states like California:


The Smart Colorado letter to Holder:

May 11, 2012

The Honorable Eric H. Holder, Jr.
Attorney General of the United States
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20530-0001

Re: Colorado Legalization of Marijuana Initiative

Dear Mr. Attorney General:

...

We commend the Department of Justice public opposition to California’s Proposition 19. As you stated in an October 13, 2010 memorandum to DEA Administrators: “Let me state clearly that the Department of Justice strongly opposes Proposition 19. If passed, this legislation will greatly complicate federal drug enforcement efforts to the detriment of our citizens”. In November 2010 you also noted that if California voters were to approve Proposition 19, the Department of Justice would “vigorously enforce the CSA against those individuals and organizations that possess, manufacture, or distribute marijuana for recreational use, even if such activities are permitted under state law.”

http://coloradoindependent.com/122115/colorado-anti-pot-legalization-group-asks-ag-holder-for-support

Seriously, fuck this guy.

AFPVet
10-09-2012, 12:12 PM
aren't the social conservative the christian right? why can't the christians who understand the violence involved in this matter reach out to their christian brothers who don't see it and ask them to stop the madness in a direct and meaningful manner? this is not cool.

I try to man... some people are just sheep. I also point out that God said that every seed bearing plant (cannabis) shall be food for you. There are also other references to cannabis being used in biblical times. I hope there are other Christians who are trying to get through the sheep. It's the generations of propaganda and false teachings which are largely responsible.

DeMintConservative
10-09-2012, 03:15 PM
aren't the social conservative the christian right? why can't the christians who understand the violence involved in this matter reach out to their christian brothers who don't see it and ask them to stop the madness in a direct and meaningful manner? this is not cool.

I think the question could and should also be directed towards non-Christians, irreligious and atheists.

In fact, that should be your priority: they tend to vote for anti-liberty policies and candidates in a much higher proportion and it's not even close. Check the exit polls for guys like Rand Paul and the other guys named "liberty candidates" in this forum.


And no, social conservatives aren't the christian right. Even though I'm not really sure what the Christian right is. Just a liberal talking point with no substance.

DeMintConservative
10-09-2012, 03:17 PM
I don't agree with the prohibition of this kind of recreational drug, but people who don't believe states have the right to prohibit them are much more dangerous to the cause of liberty than Ken Buck and it's not even close. They're "useful idiots" (not a personal offense, no insult meant, just the political term from the cold war era).

Jumbo Shrimp
10-09-2012, 03:35 PM
I don't agree with the prohibition of this kind of recreational drug, but people who don't believe states have the right to prohibit them are much more dangerous to the cause of liberty than Ken Buck and it's not even close. They're "useful idiots" (not a personal offense, no insult meant, just the political term from the cold war era).

+rep

GeorgiaAvenger
10-09-2012, 03:40 PM
He supports a state's right to choose it's drug policy under the 10th amendment. He doesn't want his state to legalize pot, but he respects other state's rights to do it if they do wish.And that actually hurts his position, but he has the principle to stand by that.

Brett85
10-09-2012, 05:04 PM
I can vote for someone like Ken Buck who I disagree with on this issue, but it does seem strange that he's actually focusing so much on this issue and becoming an advocate on this issue. I can understand people opposing marijuana legalization, but to be so strongly opposed to it that you would spend all your time and money opposing it seems really strange to me. I haven't met very many people who have marijuana prohibition as one of their top issues.

Working Poor
10-09-2012, 05:10 PM
I bet Coors brewing is in on this.

Shane Harris
10-09-2012, 05:19 PM
To me, this issue defines whether you're a true liberty candidate or not. Do you believe it is fundamentally wrong to use state force to cage non-violent marijuana/drug users in prison or not? If he's doing it for money, that makes Ken Buck a political opportunist. It also calls into question whether Buck was trying to ride the liberty coattails of Ron Paul/Tea Party to get into the senate. This is a cautionary tale to vet which candidates to support. Reminds me all too much of Bob Barr. Too many statists in sheep's clothing.

It is one of my litmus tests as well. What should be a very easy and non-controversial textbook example of self-ownership. Especially when something like alcohol is not only legal but glorified, while being far worse than cannabis. It's about as simple as it gets. It's not sticky like abortion or even immigration or a handful of other issues where I could reasonably see libertarians disagreeing. Its very black and white to me. If you don't support decriminalizing all forms of cannabis at every possible level then how can you claim to support personal liberty and self-ownership?

wrestlingwes_8
10-09-2012, 07:22 PM
I don't agree with the prohibition of this kind of recreational drug, but people who don't believe states have the right to prohibit them are much more dangerous to the cause of liberty than Ken Buck and it's not even close. They're "useful idiots" (not a personal offense, no insult meant, just the political term from the cold war era).

The states don't have any more of a right to violate someone's personal rights than the federal government does. Wake up, dude.

Jumbo Shrimp
10-09-2012, 07:26 PM
The states don't have any more of a right to violate someone's personal rights than the federal government does. Wake up, dude.

Constitutionally speaking, yes, they do.

ninepointfive
10-09-2012, 07:56 PM
I can understand people opposing marijuana legalization, but to be so strongly opposed to it that you would spend all your time and money opposing it seems really strange to me. I haven't met very many people who have marijuana prohibition as one of their top issues.

There's money in politics

AFPVet
10-09-2012, 08:14 PM
The Supremacy Clause and the 14th Amendment does allow the Bill of Rights to trump state laws when in reference to personal liberty.

Keith and stuff
10-09-2012, 08:24 PM
Constitutionally speaking, yes, they do.

10th Amendment is about the people deciding. If a government worker wants to ban freedom, the least the government worker could do is put a question on the ballot. In this case, it is a ballot question :)

Jumbo Shrimp
10-09-2012, 08:25 PM
10th Amendment is about the people deciding. If a government worker wants to ban freedom, the least the government worker could do is put a question on the ballot. In this case, it is a ballot question :)

But that would make us a democracy ;)

ninepointfive
10-09-2012, 08:26 PM
But that would make us a democracy ;)

Democratic Republic - the way the founders intended

Jumbo Shrimp
10-09-2012, 08:28 PM
Democratic Republic - the way the founders intended

The Founders intended us to have a representative republic, not a democracy.

AFPVet
10-09-2012, 08:42 PM
The Founders intended us to have a representative republic, not a democracy.

There are many types of democracies as well as republics. Our system could be called a democratic constitutional republic since we are a republic which is based on the rule of law; however, we also have elements of a democracy. We are not a total democracy however.

Keith and stuff
10-09-2012, 08:49 PM
But that would make us a democracy ;)

Nah. Here is the 10th Amendment.


The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

I read that to mean the people need to have a say in anything restricting liberty which isn't explicitly stated in the United States Constitution. The state could have a Constitutional Amendment. It could have referendums in individual towns.

At the very least 99.9% of all federal laws are unconstitutional.

mad cow
10-09-2012, 11:11 PM
Nah. Here is the 10th Amendment.



I read that to me the people need to have a say in anything restricting liberty which isn't explicitly stated in the United States Constitution. The state could have a Constitutional Amendment. It could have referendums in individual towns.

At the very least 99.9% of all federal laws are unconstitutional.

I agree.the18th amendment outlawed the importation,manufacture,sale and transportation of alcohol nationally.It was repealed by the 21st amendment yet there are a multitude of booze laws throughout the States,even down to the city and county levels.

Several States have wet counties and dry counties abutting one another,often with a liquor store,bar or roadhouse right on the county line,often named the county line.

wrestlingwes_8
10-10-2012, 10:00 AM
Constitutionally speaking, yes, they do.

I'm sorry but you couldn't be more wrong

asurfaholic
10-10-2012, 10:10 AM
I try to man... some people are just sheep. I also point out that God said that every seed bearing plant (cannabis) shall be food for you. There are also other references to cannabis being used in biblical times. I hope there are other Christians who are trying to get through the sheep. It's the generations of propaganda and false teachings which are largely responsible.

Hi, can you link me the references to cannabis in the Bible please? Very curious.

AGRP
10-10-2012, 10:25 AM
Hi, can you link me the references to cannabis in the Bible please? Very curious.

http://www.holyhemp.org/

JK/SEA
10-10-2012, 10:33 AM
//