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View Full Version : Operation: Whole Foods Hidden Camera GMO Sting - Bait Organic, Switch to GMO




libertygrl
09-27-2012, 04:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR9H7NgOLBQ

dannno
09-27-2012, 04:52 PM
I can't watch the video quite yet.. What are your thoughts?

I feel like Whole Foods gets a lot of unfair propaganda targeted at them from leftist groups who disagree with the free market principles the owner espouses. They spread it around the internet and people get all caught up, not understanding the reason why it was created in the first place.

juleswin
09-27-2012, 04:54 PM
technically, GMO can still be organic. Just grow a GMO crop without any industrial pesticide or fertilizer and BINGO you have an organic GMO.

Disclaimer: I am in the process of watching the video when I typed this :)

libertygrl
09-27-2012, 05:03 PM
I can't watch the video quite yet.. What are your thoughts?

I feel like Whole Foods gets a lot of unfair propaganda targeted at them from leftist groups who disagree with the free market principles the owner espouses. They spread it around the internet and people get all caught up, not understanding the reason why it was created in the first place.

Many of the reports I've been receiving come from the Natural News guy Mike Adams, who is a conservative Ron Paul supporter. He has been exposing many of these things for several years now. I subscribe to his newsletter and I trust the information he provides.
h ttp://www.naturalnews.com

AGRP
09-27-2012, 05:13 PM
Would I be demonized if I refused to use the state to solve my problems?

ClydeCoulter
09-27-2012, 05:18 PM
Would I be demonized if I refused to use the state to solve my problems?

Would you be opposed to stoping the state from being used by GMO companies to shove their shit down our throats?

AGRP
09-27-2012, 05:22 PM
Would you be opposed to stoping the state from being used by GMO companies to shove their shit down our throats?

I wouldnt be opposed to creating a private certification company that certifies non-gmo foods.

specsaregood
09-27-2012, 05:25 PM
I can't watch the video quite yet.. What are your thoughts?

I feel like Whole Foods gets a lot of unfair propaganda targeted at them from leftist groups who disagree with the free market principles the owner espouses. They spread it around the internet and people get all caught up, not understanding the reason why it was created in the first place.

That's what this is. They are complaining because whole foods hasn't donated money to a proposition mandating govt labeling. But they mention that whole foods tells people to wanting to avoid GMOs to buy the products indedently certified (not govt) as non-gmo. ie: whole foods supports a nonprofit that does product non-gmo certification. leftists want govt required. They also make a big deal about whole foods making money off gmo products, but every single wh store i've been in clearly labels all the product as convention vs. organic.

in short, its exactly what you feared it would be.

specsaregood
09-27-2012, 05:26 PM
I wouldnt be opposed to creating a private certification company that certifies non-gmo foods.
whole foods already supports such an org. its mentioned in the video but that isn't good enough for them because it isn't mandated.
http://www.nongmoproject.org/



As an example, Whole Foods has their entire 365 product line, organic AND natural enrolled in the Non-GMO Project. This commitment means that they are requiring testing of every single GMO risk ingredient used in every single one of their house brand products, both organic and natural. As a founding member of the Non-GMO Project, Whole Foods made a point from the very beginning of ensuring that this program would be available for not only their organic products, but their natural ones, too. Their commitment is exemplary. In fact, it is exactly the sort of positive action step that Cummins called for in his recent article.

http://www.nongmoproject.org/2011/01/29/team-organic-will-never-surrender-to-monsanto-now-we-continue-the-fight-together/

AGRP
09-27-2012, 05:30 PM
whole foods already supports such an org. its mentioned in the video but that isn't good enough for them because it isn't mandated.
http://www.nongmoproject.org/

Well, I guess this topic is over. lol.

dannno
09-27-2012, 05:34 PM
That's what this is. They are complaining because whole foods hasn't donated money to a proposition mandating govt labeling. But they mention that whole foods tells people to wanting to avoid GMOs to buy the products indedently certified (not govt) as non-gmo. ie: whole foods supports a nonprofit that does product non-gmo certification. leftists want govt required. They also make a big deal about whole foods making money off gmo products, but every single wh store i've been in clearly labels all the product as convention vs. organic.

in short, its exactly what you feared it would be.


Well that's fucking interesting because I was at Whole Foods the other day and the store had signs up telling people to vote for the prop..

I'm actually considering voting for it, not certain yet. Even though it is anti-liberty I think it might help balance out the market with the anti-liberty pro-GMO stuff coming from the other side. Though I don't know how effective it will be for meat since you can feed an animal GMO food and say the animal is non-GMO.

specsaregood
09-27-2012, 05:37 PM
Well that's fucking interesting because I was at Whole Foods the other day and the store had signs up telling people to vote for the prop..

I'm actually considering voting for it, not certain yet. Even though it is anti-liberty I think it might help balance out the market with the anti-liberty pro-GMO stuff coming from the other side. Though I don't know how effective it will be for meat since you can feed an animal GMO food and say the animal is non-GMO.

Right, they aren't mad about that. It seems they are mad that WH hasn't donated money towards the prop. :) And that WH makes money off products that may or may not have GMO.

Zippyjuan
09-27-2012, 05:40 PM
They don't support Prop 37?
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/15/business/la-fi-whole-foods-endorse-20120915

Whole Foods endorses Prop. 37

SACRAMENTO — Whole Foods Market, the largest U.S. natural-goods specialty retailer, has endorsed a California initiative that would require the labeling of genetically engineered food ingredients.

The Austin, Texas, company is backing Proposition 37 on the November ballot "because it has long believed its customers have the right to know how their food is produced."

That "right to know" is the main argument for the ballot measure, which has strong support from farmers, processors and sellers of organic foods. It's opposed by biotech companies, grocery manufacturers and the soft drink industry, among others.

The grocery industry contends that genetically engineered foods are healthful and no different nutritionally from organic fruits, vegetables and grains.

Opponents, so far, have raised about $25 million to fight Proposition 37, while supporters reported $3.5 million as of Sept. 1, according to Maplight.org, a nonpartisan voter information service. Whole Foods has not contributed to the Yes on 37 campaign, according to filings with the California secretary of state.

Whole Foods' endorsement of Proposition 37 came with a couple of reservations.

In a Sept. 11 press release, the market complained that a 0.5% threshold was too low for exempting a product containing a small amount of genetically engineered content from the labeling requirement.

The company also objected to a provision that would allow private attorneys to sue on behalf of the state, alleging a violation of the labeling mandate, should it become law.

Stacy Malkan, the spokeswoman for the Proposition 37 campaign, welcomed the Whole Foods endorsement. "It shows support from a very important retailer," she said. "They make an effort to keep GMOs [genetically modified organisms] out of their stores."

But Malkan noted that the parts of Proposition 37 that Whole Foods doesn't like can't be removed from the initiative before the election. Nor can they be changed, if it should be approved, unless the effort gets the approval of two-thirds of the state Legislature and is deemed to be "in furtherance" of the law's intent.

Whole Foods' concerns with the initiative are legitimate but its call for modifying Proposition 37 is misguided, said Kathy Fairbanks, a spokeswoman for the No campaign.

"None of these provisions can be changed easily," she said. "The only way to get a change is through another ballot measure."



http://organicconnectmag.com/wp/whole-foods-market-backs-californias-gmo-labeling-proposition-37/


Whole Foods Market Backs California’s GMO Labeling Proposition 37

Whole Foods Market supports California’s Proposition 37 requiring mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods by July 1, 2014 because it has long believed its customers have the right to know how their food is produced. However, the company has some reservations with the proposition as drafted and hopes several issues can be addressed in the implementation phase should voters approve the measure, including:

1.The use of 0.5% of the total weight as the upper limit for processed foods that contain one or more genetically engineered ingredients to be exempted from labeling is inconsistent with the long-established international labeling standard of 0.9%.

2.The people of California’s best interests will not be properly represented as the enforcement of Proposition 37 will not be handled in partnership with the California Attorney General’s Office to ensure objective guidance and impartial oversight, but instead by private plaintiff attorneys pursuing civil litigation.

Because of the inconsistency in thresholds and the lack of Attorney General oversight, manufacturers could be compelled to label products with “May be Partially Produced with Genetic Engineering” even if it is not the case to avoid costly litigation and protect themselves. This could result in consumers receiving inaccurate information, which is contrary to the intent of the proposition itself.

Additionally, Whole Foods Market is encouraged by the parallel effort in Washington State with their proposed Initiative Measure No. 522 as it already addresses some of the concerns of California’s Proposition 37. These two state initiatives could possibly lead to a broader effort to create one federal standard on labeling of genetically engineered foods similar to how the National Organic Standards were formed. One set of rules and uniform support of a consumer’s right to know would ultimately be in the best interest of all.

ClydeCoulter
09-27-2012, 05:44 PM
I wouldnt be opposed to creating a private certification company that certifies non-gmo foods.

Then we could create another company that certifies that certification companies aren't being paid off to lie, like ratings companies.

Zippyjuan
09-27-2012, 05:44 PM
Likely to pass at this point:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-prop37-times-poll-20120927,0,5015236.story


Poll finds Prop. 37 is likely to pass

By more than a 2-to-1 margin, California voters favor an initiative to require food manufacturers and retailers to label fresh produce and processed foods that contain genetically engineered ingredients.

With less than six weeks until election day, Proposition 37 is supported by 61% of registered voters and opposed by 25%, according to a new USC Dornsife/Los Angeles Times poll. An additional 14% were undecided or refused to answer.

The poll showed broad support among voter groups, but the interviews took place before Tuesday's start of a major television advertising blitz by opponents aimed at changing voters' minds on the issue.

So far, the opposition campaign has raised more than $32.5 million, collected mostly from businesses affected by the measure.

The first 30-second television spot complains that passage of the labeling initiative would foster more government bureaucracy and send food prices spiraling. The commercial features Central Valley farmer Ted Sheeley, who grows corn, cotton, tomatoes, pistachios and other crops. He warns that "the people least able to pay are going to be forced to pay more" for food. It calls the measure "the deceptive food labeling initiative."

.

Agorism
09-27-2012, 05:46 PM
I've always felt the organic movement is a joke to begin with so when I see this stuff it just amuses me.

dannno
09-27-2012, 05:48 PM
I've always felt the organic movement is a joke to begin with so when I see this stuff it just amuses me.

Well maybe you should learn about how plants grow and the environment and nutrients and stuff.

AGRP
09-27-2012, 05:51 PM
Then we could create another company that certifies that certification companies aren't being paid off to lie, like ratings companies.

There should be a multitude of certification companies competing to be the most credible, open, and honest.

Do you seriously believe the states "organic" label means its organic?

Dr.3D
09-27-2012, 05:54 PM
Brawndo, it's got what plants crave.

TCE
09-27-2012, 07:14 PM
In their Whole Deal brochure, they attacked a company for listing "Natural Flavors" and not disclosing what chemicals those were. They were advertising their organic wafers, which have "Natural Butter Flavor." I lol'd so hard. Like at any store, one must know what they are buying at Whole Foods. Their packaged stuff sometimes contains as much crap as any regular store. Their organic produce, though, is the real deal.

Cliff Notes for anyone not wanting to burn 17 minutes: Whole Foods has not donated to support Prop 37. Whole Foods sells some products that contain GMOs. Most big-name companies are trying to defeat Prop 37. Most small, natural-health companies have donated for it. 365 Organic stuff does not have GMOs, but non-organic stuff might. Some workers there know about GMO, others do not.

My take: No kidding some workers don't know everything there is to know about the store. Most of the workers seemed to know that there were GMOs in the store. This appears to be an attack from The Left. Hating on a company because it does not get involved in a political matter is ridiculous. Hating on a company or a person for not donating money to a cause is also ridiculous.

LibertyRevolution
09-27-2012, 07:56 PM
Brawndo, it's got what plants crave.

^^this is where we are heading...

angelatc
09-27-2012, 08:43 PM
In their Whole Deal brochure, they attacked a company for listing "Natural Flavors" and not disclosing what chemicals those were. They were advertising their organic wafers, which have "Natural Butter Flavor." I lol'd so hard. Like at any store, one must know what they are buying at Whole Foods. Their packaged stuff sometimes contains as much crap as any regular store. Their organic produce, though, is the real deal.

Cliff Notes for anyone not wanting to burn 17 minutes: Whole Foods has not donated to support Prop 37. Whole Foods sells some products that contain GMOs. Most big-name companies are trying to defeat Prop 37. Most small, natural-health companies have donated for it. 365 Organic stuff does not have GMOs, but non-organic stuff might. Some workers there know about GMO, others do not.

My take: No kidding some workers don't know everything there is to know about the store. Most of the workers seemed to know that there were GMOs in the store. This appears to be an attack from The Left. Hating on a company because it does not get involved in a political matter is ridiculous. Hating on a company or a person for not donating money to a cause is also ridiculous.

When the hubby worked there, they were trying to work with Coca Cola to sell Coke there, because it fit their guidelines. But Coca Cola won't let retailers sell just Coke, and since other products in the line (like Diet Coke) weren't "clean" they couldn't make it fly.

A lot of people think Whole Foods is organic, but they're not. They are, however, pretty strict about what chemicals they won't allow in the foods they sell.

TCE
09-27-2012, 10:07 PM
When the hubby worked there, they were trying to work with Coca Cola to sell Coke there, because it fit their guidelines. But Coca Cola won't let retailers sell just Coke, and since other products in the line (like Diet Coke) weren't "clean" they couldn't make it fly.

A lot of people think Whole Foods is organic, but they're not. They are, however, pretty strict about what chemicals they won't allow in the foods they sell.

+Rep. Cool story. I'm glad Whole Foods is disallowing at least some things in their stores. The part about it that I get is, most of the money Whole Foods makes it not off of organics. I believe I read somewhere back in the day that 2/3 of their profit is from non-organics, and I believe it. The video complains that Whole Foods isn't educating people about GMOs and isn't protecting people from themselves. Well, if people want to go into Whole Foods and believe that the non-organic chocolate brownies are health foods, then that's their problem. Asking Whole Foods to act as Big Brother seems foolish.

At Whole Foods, one finds the best stuff in the produce section as well as a very nice variety in the cooking oils and spices sections as well. They also have a good amount of organic meats and poultry. Everything in-between, though, well, that's a different story.

RonPaulMall
09-27-2012, 11:18 PM
At Whole Foods, one finds the best stuff in the produce section as well as a very nice variety in the cooking oils and spices sections as well. They also have a good amount of organic meats and poultry. Everything in-between, though, well, that's a different story.

Important to remember that "Organic" is not the be all and end all as well. Especially when it comes to meat, eggs, and poultry. An "organic" factory farmed animal or egg is really no better than a non-organic one. The label to pay attention to when it comes to meat is "grass fed" and with eggs and chickens it is "pastured" (which is not the same as "cage free", another largely irrelevant label).

puppetmaster
09-27-2012, 11:45 PM
Important to remember that "Organic" is not the be all and end all as well. Especially when it comes to meat, eggs, and poultry. An "organic" factory farmed animal or egg is really no better than a non-organic one. The label to pay attention to when it comes to meat is "grass fed" and with eggs and chickens it is "pastured" (which is not the same as "cage free", another largely irrelevant label). not true. Non organic commercial poultry is a disaster. They get chicks to butcher weight in weeks now using a vast mixture of steroids and hormones beginning injecting eggs with steroids. Meats are very tainted if not raised right

oyarde
09-27-2012, 11:58 PM
Is anyone making these retards shop at Whole Foods ??

Feeding the Abscess
09-28-2012, 04:33 AM
Yes, asking low-skilled, low-wage short term employees about the marketing and labeling practices of Whole Foods is representative of sales training by the company.

Nothing at all could ever go wrong with that assumption.

GunnyFreedom
09-28-2012, 04:50 AM
There should be a multitude of certification companies competing to be the most credible, open, and honest.

Do you seriously believe the states "organic" label means its organic?

Well, to be fair I am certain that every one of them contains chemicals that have carbon atoms.

acptulsa
09-28-2012, 06:12 AM
whole foods already supports such an org. its mentioned in the video but that isn't good enough for them because it isn't mandated.

Underwriters' Laboratories isn't mandated either.

That's what makes it work. If it were mandated, it would become crooked in short order. Power corrupts. And it's unnecessary, because integrity sells.

specsaregood
09-28-2012, 07:08 AM
not true. Non organic commercial poultry is a disaster. They get chicks to butcher weight in weeks now using a vast mixture of steroids and hormones beginning injecting eggs with steroids. Meats are very tainted if not raised right

Both steroid and hormone use on poultry is illegal in the US -- both organic and not organic. If that's why you are buying organic than you wasting your money.

Here is a relevent quote:


Consumer misconceptions about industry practices have been increasing for decades, but poultry companies have avoided addressing issues like hormone and steroid use – none is used in any U.S.-grown chickens. When consumer misconception was less prevalent in earlier times, poultry companies chose to not raise a negative issue with consumers. More recently – though a majority of consumers now believe that hormones are used in chicken production – companies still have been reluctant to advertise that hormones and steroids are not used. The thinking at many companies has been that it is disingenuous to advertise that their chicken contains none of a substance that isn’t in any chicken produced by any U.S. producer and which is, in fact, banned by law.

http://www.wattagnet.com/Gary_Thornton/Perdue_chicken_campaign_tackles_hormones,_cages.ht ml

libertyjam
09-28-2012, 07:10 AM
not true. Non organic commercial poultry is a disaster. They get chicks to butcher weight in weeks now using a vast mixture of steroids and hormones beginning injecting eggs with steroids. Meats are very tainted if not raised right

I'm sorry but Federal law prohibits the use of hormones in the raising of all pork and poultry. There are reasons to love organic, but no big poultry producer in the US uses hormones in the raising of poultry.

RonRules
09-28-2012, 07:30 AM
I've always felt the organic movement is a joke to begin with so when I see this stuff it just amuses me.

Me too.

Even the Slate agrees!

GMO Opponents Are the Climate Skeptics of the Left
Don’t worry. Genetically modified corn isn’t going to give you cancer.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/09/are_gmo_foods_safe_opponents_are_skewing_the_scien ce_to_scare_people_.html

RonRules
09-28-2012, 07:32 AM
Here's another Whole Foods hidden video sting operation:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zjdGP-x-e0

acptulsa
09-28-2012, 07:32 AM
Me too.

Even the Slate agrees!

GMO Opponents Are the Climate Skeptics of the Left
Don’t worry. Genetically modified corn isn’t going to give you cancer.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/09/are_gmo_foods_safe_opponents_are_skewing_the_scien ce_to_scare_people_.html

They had better watch it. They're calling Putin a liar. He's liable to go all Stalin on their asses.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/25/article-2208452-0471FF6C000005DC-239_468x328.jpg
Cancer risk? A farmer shows two corncobs of genetically engineered corn by U.S. company Monsanto, right, and two normal corncobs from Germany, left



Russia suspends import and use of American GM corn after study revealed cancer risk (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2208452/Russia-suspends-import-use-American-GM-corn-study-revealed-cancer-risk.html)


Daily Mail UK
25 September 2012


* The European Food Safety Authority orders review in to the research, conducted at a French university

* Russia's decision could be followed by other nations

* Experts at the University of Caen conducted an experiment running for the full lives of rats - two years

* The findings found raised levels of breast cancer, liver and kidney damage

* The same trials also found minuscule amounts of a commonly used weedkiller, Roundup

* Both the GM corn and Roundup are the creation of US biotech company Monsanto

RonRules
09-28-2012, 07:35 AM
One of the comments in the Op's video:

'If you don't mind, P4NDOR407, I'm actually going through this comments section looking for as much info as possible to have an informed position about this whole thing, so I'd like to ask if you can point me to some stuff about the Alfalfa matter.

RonRules
09-28-2012, 07:45 AM
Here's my buddy Brian Dunning setting the record straight:

Organic Food Myths
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4019 (You can either read it or listen to it, generally about 12 minutes)

Genetically Modified Organisms: Jeopardy or Jackpot?
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4112

Recently I suggested to Brian a "GMO only" picnic in honor of the aniversary of Norman Borlaug, the man that saved a billion lives from starvation. Brian thought it was a great idea.

specsaregood
09-28-2012, 07:47 AM
Here's another Whole Foods hidden video sting operation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zjdGP-x-e0

Man, he got my mind working with that "beef newtons, like fig newtons but with beef" sounds good.

jbauer
09-28-2012, 07:52 AM
I wouldnt be opposed to creating a private certification company that certifies non-gmo foods.

Can't happen. Plants cross polinate. You can plant a non-GMO plant and be within wind distance of a GMO plant and end up with a crossed GMO seed. You could litterly have kernals on the same ear of corn with and without GMO properties.

So in essance you'd have to test each and every kernal of corn.

jbauer
09-28-2012, 07:55 AM
Well maybe you should learn about how plants grow and the environment and nutrients and stuff.

Ditto, although I completley respect your opinon to do what you want with your money.

specsaregood
09-28-2012, 07:55 AM
Can't happen. Plants cross polinate. You can plant a non-GMO plant and be within wind distance of a GMO plant and end up with a crossed GMO seed. You could litterly have kernals on the same ear of corn with and without GMO properties.

So in essance you'd have to test each and every kernal of corn.

It's already being done. sure they can't guarantee that every single kernel is non-gmo; but they can show that statistically the chances of running into a single GMO grain are insignificant.

donnay
09-28-2012, 07:55 AM
Both steroid and hormone use on poultry is illegal in the US -- both organic and not organic. If that's why you are buying organic than you wasting your money.

Here is a relevent quote:

I would disagree with that notion. It is the drug Roxarsone the factory farms use in the chicken feed that is far more worrisome. Roxarsone contains arsenic which is organic, but by the time the chicken metabolized it, it becomes the inorganic one that is a carcinogen to humans. It was found in the livers of the chickens, but the FDA never tested any other parts of the chicken--basically the meat that humans consume.

Not to mention the GMO in feed they give to fatten the chickens up for slaughter.

The "Organic" label is suppose to ensure the consumer that the chickens were never fed the arsenic drug nor given routine antibiotics to spur accelerated growth.

I have grown my own chickens, fed them organic feed (Non-GMOs), never vaccinated them and allowed them free range. When we slaughtered some, the chicken meat is white, not yellow or golden. The flavor and texture was nothing like you would buy from an factory farm, I can assure you.

RonRules
09-28-2012, 07:57 AM
From the Organic food podcast above:

'Since the organic pesticides and fungicides are less efficient than their modern synthetic counterparts, up to seven times as much of it must be used. Organic pesticides include rotenone, which has been shown to cause the symptoms of Parkinson's Disease and is a natural poison used in hunting by some native tribes; pyrethrum, which is carcinogenic; sabadilla, which is highly toxic to honeybees; and fermented urine, which I don't want on my food whether it causes any diseases or not. "

Donnay, where are you?! These aren't trace elements, they dump these dangerous chemical on your organic food!

Also this: "In the United States, 2006 brought two major outbreaks of E. coli, both resulting in deaths and numerous illnesses, ultimately traced to organically grown spinach and lettuce. According to the Center for Global Food Issues, organic foods make up about 1% of all the food sold in the United States, but it accounts for 8% of E. coli cases."

specsaregood
09-28-2012, 07:58 AM
I would disagree with that notion.
Which notion do you think you are disagreeing with?

jbauer
09-28-2012, 08:02 AM
Both steroid and hormone use on poultry is illegal in the US -- both organic and not organic. If that's why you are buying organic than you wasting your money.

Here is a relevent quote:

Butttttt.......thats not what the tinfoil hat folks have said!!!

Organic is a waste of money a LARGE portion of it is not organic. Follow the money it will lead you home.

As for the grass fed dude. We're going to split hairs here, but grass fed doesn't mean grass finished, more importantly for you evil corn is a highly specialized grass.

erowe1
09-28-2012, 08:04 AM
I find it interesting that a hidden camera would be needed for this. That tells me that there is no detectable difference between so-called "organic" and gmo.

specsaregood
09-28-2012, 08:09 AM
As for the grass fed dude. We're going to split hairs here, but grass fed doesn't mean grass finished, more importantly for you evil corn is a highly specialized grass.

No it doesn't always mean grass finished; it depends on who is making that claim. Since we are in a WF thread --if whole foods has a meat listed as "grass fed" it also means "grass finished" and they have a rigorous inspection/audit process for their suppliers to ensure that. The info is on their website.

edit: For me, I can tell farily quickly if beef is grass finished or not, it smells a bit like fish when you are cooking it.

jbauer
09-28-2012, 08:14 AM
From the Organic food podcast above:

'Since the organic pesticides and fungicides are less efficient than their modern synthetic counterparts, up to seven times as much of it must be used. Organic pesticides include rotenone, which has been shown to cause the symptoms of Parkinson's Disease and is a natural poison used in hunting by some native tribes; pyrethrum, which is carcinogenic; sabadilla, which is highly toxic to honeybees; and fermented urine, which I don't want on my food whether it causes any diseases or not. "

Donnay, where are you?! These aren't trace elements, they dump these dangerous chemical on your organic food!

Also this: "In the United States, 2006 brought two major outbreaks of E. coli, both resulting in deaths and numerous illnesses, ultimately traced to organically grown spinach and lettuce. According to the Center for Global Food Issues, organic foods make up about 1% of all the food sold in the United States, but it accounts for 8% of E. coli cases."

I have no problem with organic methods if they:

1. Work
2. Are less dangerous then their synthetic counterparts

"Organic" is nothing then a very well executed marketing skem that has been going on for the better part of 3 decades now. There is little if any difference between the foods you eat. If you want healthier foods quit trying to take the "magic pill" of organic foods. Find and get to know local growers, find out what they use or don't use. Start making and/or growing your own food that way you know exactly whats in it.........either that or keep paying 3-4 times for your food all the while you're being lied to.

jbauer
09-28-2012, 08:19 AM
No it doesn't always mean grass finished; it depends on who is making that claim. Since we are in a WF thread --if whole foods has a meat listed as "grass fed" it also means "grass finished" and they have a rigorous inspection/audit process for their suppliers to ensure that. The info is on their website.

edit: For me, I can tell farily quickly if beef is grass finished or not, it smells a bit like fish when you are cooking it.

I can to, I grew up on a farm and the taste is different. But not all that different. If you can tell the difference thats good. However, I'd suspect some of the difference you are seeing is more related to a different breed/age/type of cut rather then what it was fed. As for whole foods testing. I know of "grass fed" and "organic raised" and it doesn't mean $hit. You'd be supprised the ammount of food that shows up on "certified" farms the night before its shipped off the next day.

specsaregood
09-28-2012, 08:23 AM
I can to, I grew up on a farm and the taste is different. But not all that different. If you can tell the difference thats good. However, I'd suspect some of the difference you are seeing is more related to a different breed/age/type of cut rather then what it was fed. As for whole foods testing. I know of "grass fed" and "organic raised" and it doesn't mean $hit. You'd be supprised the ammount of food that shows up on "certified" farms the night before its shipped off the next day.

Yeah, I spent some years on the farm and some family was in the cattle business for years --i used to get USDA beef vouchers as a christmas gift. I wouldn't be all that surprised. But WH does have some really indepth auditing done of their suppliers. I have other family that supplies product to WH (not beef) and the inspection and audit process was not any type of rubber stamp operation and went all the way down their supply chain for every single ingredient used. note: They said the gluten-free certification was even more rigorous. In the end, I personally don't have time to spend looking for farmers of every ingredient and even then I would have to trust them.

donnay
09-28-2012, 08:30 AM
Here's my buddy Brian Dunning setting the record straight:

Organic Food Myths
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4019 (You can either read it or listen to it, generally about 12 minutes)

Genetically Modified Organisms: Jeopardy or Jackpot?
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4112

Recently I suggested to Brian a "GMO only" picnic in honor of the aniversary of Norman Borlaug, the man that saved a billion lives from starvation. Brian thought it was a great idea.


You are such a disinformation bot. GMO studies have been shown to do damage in animals organs like; the liver, pancreas, kidneys, just to name a few. However, just like Big Pharma, the studies are bias from the get-go. Allowing the pushers of GMO's to conduct these so-called studies and then our government gives them the go-ahead to put them on the market.

You go right ahead and have you GMO picnics and since there are not too many human studies maybe, you can volunteer yourself to the study.

Sources of studies:
http://www.biolsci.org/v05p0706.htm
http://bsalert.com/artsearch.php?fn=2&as=2669&dt=1
http://naturalsociety.com/gmo-study-rats-fed-lifetime-of-gm-develop-mass-tumors-die-early/
http://www.responsibletechnology.org/article-gmo-soy-linked-to-sterility
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=331718&CategoryId=14093
http://www.comcom.govt.nz/media-releases/detail/2009/inghamswarnedovergmfreechickenclai/

donnay
09-28-2012, 08:30 AM
Which notion do you think you are disagreeing with?

Buying organic is a waste of money.

erowe1
09-28-2012, 08:33 AM
However, just like Big Pharma, the studies are bias from the get-go. Allowing the pushers of GMO's to conduct these so-called studies and then our government gives them the go-ahead to put them on the market.

They shouldn't need to do anything at all to get the government's permission to sell their product to whomever wants to buy it.

specsaregood
09-28-2012, 08:34 AM
Buying organic is a waste of money.

Well I didnt say that. :)
i said, "Both steroid and hormone use on poultry is illegal in the US -- both organic and not organic. If that's why you are buying organic than you wasting your money."

If somebody is buying organic chicken because they want to avoid chicken raised on steroids and hormones then they are wasting their money as non-organic chicken in the US isn't raised on steroids or hormones either. If they have other reasons for buying it, then that is a different matter altogether.

See, we don't disagree.

libertyjam
09-28-2012, 08:41 AM
You are such a disinformation bot. GMO studies have been shown to do damage in animals organs like; the liver, pancreas, kidneys, just to name a few. However, just like Big Pharma, the studies are bias from the get-go. Allowing the pushers of GMO's to conduct these so-called studies and then our government gives them the go-ahead to put them on the market.

You go right ahead and have you GMO picnics and since there are not too many human studies maybe, you can volunteer yourself to the study.

Sources of studies:
http://www.biolsci.org/v05p0706.htm
http://bsalert.com/artsearch.php?fn=2&as=2669&dt=1
http://naturalsociety.com/gmo-study-rats-fed-lifetime-of-gm-develop-mass-tumors-die-early/
http://www.responsibletechnology.org/article-gmo-soy-linked-to-sterility
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=331718&CategoryId=14093
http://www.comcom.govt.nz/media-releases/detail/2009/inghamswarnedovergmfreechickenclai/

Lord save us from the brain dead idiots like Brian Dunning and RonRules!

donnay
09-28-2012, 08:51 AM
From the Organic food podcast above:

'Since the organic pesticides and fungicides are less efficient than their modern synthetic counterparts, up to seven times as much of it must be used. Organic pesticides include rotenone, which has been shown to cause the symptoms of Parkinson's Disease and is a natural poison used in hunting by some native tribes; pyrethrum, which is carcinogenic; sabadilla, which is highly toxic to honeybees; and fermented urine, which I don't want on my food whether it causes any diseases or not. "

Donnay, where are you?! These aren't trace elements, they dump these dangerous chemical on your organic food!

Also this: "In the United States, 2006 brought two major outbreaks of E. coli, both resulting in deaths and numerous illnesses, ultimately traced to organically grown spinach and lettuce. According to the Center for Global Food Issues, organic foods make up about 1% of all the food sold in the United States, but it accounts for 8% of E. coli cases."

LOL, but you will agree that Roundup and all the pesticides and herbicides used on factory farms are A-Okay eh? :rolleyes:

Naturally derived insecticides allowed for use on organic farms use include Bacillus thuringiensis (a bacterial toxin), pyrethrum (a chrysanthemum extract), spinosad (a bacterial metabolite), neem (a tree extract) and rotenone (a legume root extract). Fewer than 10% of organic farmers use these pesticides regularly; one survey found that only 5.3% of vegetable growers in California use rotenone while 1.7% use pyrethrum (Lotter 2003:26).

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/organic-farming#ixzz27m8lmnif

_____________________

Parkinson's disease has been positively associated with two groups of pesticides by the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences researchers who found that people who used two specific varieties of pesticide were 2.5 times more likely to develop Parkinson's disease.

The pesticides, paraquat and rotenone, are illegal for home and garden use. Earlier research on animals linked paraquat to Parkinson's disease, so its use is restricted to application by licensed professionals. Rotenone is approved only for use in killing invasive fish species.

"Rotenone directly inhibits the function of the mitochondria, the structure responsible for making energy in the cell," according to study co-author Freya Kamel, a researcher at the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences.

"Paraquat increases production of certain oxygen derivatives that may harm cellular structures. People who used these pesticides or others with a similar mechanism of action were more likely to develop Parkinson's disease."

The study examined 110 people with Parkinson's disease and 358 people who served as a control group from the Farming and Movement Evaluation (FAME) Study. In 110 PD cases and 358 controls, PD was associated with use of a group of pesticides that inhibit mitochondrial Complex I (OR 1.7, 95% CI 1.0, 2.8) including rotenone (OR 2.5, 95% CI 1.3, 4.7), and with use of a group of pesticides that cause oxidative stress (OR 2.0, 95% CI 1.2, 3.6) including paraquat (OR 2.5, 95% CI 1.4, 4.7).

FAME is part of a larger Agricultural Health Study looking at the health of approximately 90,000 licensed pesticide applicators and their spouses.

The study appears in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives published by the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences

Incidentally, during the late 1970s, a controversial program sponsored by the US government sprayed paraquat on marijuana fields in Mexico. Since much of this marijuana was subsequently smoked by Americans, the US government's "Paraquat Pot" program stirred much debate. Perhaps in an attempt to deter people from using marijuana, representatives of the program warned that spraying rendered the crop unsafe to smoke.

However, independent bodies have studied paraquat in this use. Jenny Pronczuk de Garbino, stated: "no lung or other injury in marijuana users has ever been attributed to paraquat contamination". Also a United States Environmental Protection Agency manual states: "... toxic effects caused by this mechanism have been either very rare or nonexistent. Most paraquat that contaminates marijuana is pyrolyzed during smoking to dipyridyl, which is a product of combustion of the leaf material itself (including marijuana) and presents little toxic hazard.”


Source: National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences
Citation: Tanner CM, Kamel F, Ross GW, Hoppin JA, Goldman SM, Korell M, et al. 2011. Rotenone, Paraquat and Parkinson’s Disease. Environ Health Perspect :-. doi:10.1289/ehp.1002839

All authors include: Caroline M. Tanner, Freya Kamel, G. Webster Ross, Jane A. Hoppin, Samuel M. Goldman, Monica Korell, Connie Marras, Grace S. Bhudhikanok, Meike Kasten, Anabel R. Chade, Kathleen Comyns, Marie Barber Richards, Cheryl Meng, Benjamin Priestley, Hubert H. Fernandez, Franca Cambi, David M. Umbach, Aaron Blair, Dale P. Sandler, J. William Langston

http://www.dirtdoctor.com/Parkinsons-Disease-Linked-to-Pesticides-Rotenone_vq3906.htm

_______________________

UNACCEPTABLE PEST CONTROL PRODUCTS
2,4-D
Acetic Acid (petroleum based)
Amdro
Atrazine
Bayleton
Bayer Products
BHA
BHT
Broadleaf Herbicides
Clopyralid
Copper Products
Daconil
Diazinon
DSMA
Dursban
Ethoxyquin
Finale
Fipronyl Products
Funginex
Glyphosate Products
Grazon
Ironite
Manage
Merit
MSMA
Orthene
Orthonex
PBO
Pendimethalin
Picloram
Piperonyl Butoxide
Pyrethroid Products
Pyrethrin
Pyrethrum
Rapid Gro
Rotenone
Round Up
Sabadilla
Silica Gel
SU Herbicides
Synthetic Fungicides
Vinegars (20% and greater in strength, vinegar made form glacial acetic acid)
And all other toxic synthetic products.

http://www.dirtdoctor.com/Organic-Products-Acceptable-Unacceptable_vq4806.htm

donnay
09-28-2012, 08:57 AM
They shouldn't need to do anything at all to get the government's permission to sell their product to whomever wants to buy it.


Government should not be in the equation. If we have a truly free market, the people would be the regulators! Government and their cronies have done more harm than good and people continue to blindly believe government has their best interests at heart!

donnay
09-28-2012, 09:00 AM
Well I didnt say that. :)
i said, "Both steroid and hormone use on poultry is illegal in the US -- both organic and not organic. If that's why you are buying organic than you wasting your money."

If somebody is buying organic chicken because they want to avoid chicken raised on steroids and hormones then they are wasting their money as non-organic chicken in the US isn't raised on steroids or hormones either. If they have other reasons for buying it, then that is a different matter altogether.

See, we don't disagree.

My mistake, I understand what you are saying now. You're right we do not disagree. :)

donnay
09-28-2012, 09:01 AM
Lord save us from the brain dead idiots like Brian Dunning and RonRules!


Amen and pass the ammunition. ;)

Nirvikalpa
09-28-2012, 09:01 AM
not true. Non organic commercial poultry is a disaster. They get chicks to butcher weight in weeks now using a vast mixture of steroids and hormones beginning injecting eggs with steroids. Meats are very tainted if not raised right

There are no hormones in US poultry. They are fed, however, fattening diets.

Edit: nvm, see people got to it before me.

jbauer
09-28-2012, 09:08 AM
Studies have been showed to give results that the studier wanted to hear. People conducting studies have also been show how that in order to get your next grant you have to come up with results. No results means no future paycheck.

You are such a disinformation bot. GMO studies have been shown to do damage in animals organs like; the liver, pancreas, kidneys, just to name a few. However, just like Big Pharma, the studies are bias from the get-go. Allowing the pushers of GMO's to conduct these so-called studies and then our government gives them the go-ahead to put them on the market.

You go right ahead and have you GMO picnics and since there are not too many human studies maybe, you can volunteer yourself to the study.

Sources of studies:
http://www.biolsci.org/v05p0706.htm
http://bsalert.com/artsearch.php?fn=2&as=2669&dt=1
http://naturalsociety.com/gmo-study-rats-fed-lifetime-of-gm-develop-mass-tumors-die-early/
http://www.responsibletechnology.org/article-gmo-soy-linked-to-sterility
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=331718&CategoryId=14093
http://www.comcom.govt.nz/media-releases/detail/2009/inghamswarnedovergmfreechickenclai/

jbauer
09-28-2012, 09:10 AM
There are no hormones in US poultry. They are fed, however, fattening diets.Edit: nvm, see people got to it before me.

So are Americans (humans if that wasn't evident)

donnay
09-28-2012, 09:24 AM
Studies have been showed to give results that the studier wanted to hear. People conducting studies have also been show how that in order to get your next grant you have to come up with results. No results means no future paycheck.


I would beg to differ. The ones who are doing independent studies are the ones who have to worry, since they are going against the giants. You do not understand how monopolies work--strong arm and threaten, nor do you understand the mechanisms of imperialists.

jbauer
09-28-2012, 09:25 AM
I would beg to differ. The ones who are doing independent studies are the ones who have to worry, since they are going against the giants. You do not understand how monopolies work--strong arm and threaten, nor do you understand the mechanisms of imperialists.

It was said earlier opinions are like Aholes. We all have them.

donnay
09-28-2012, 10:00 AM
It was said earlier opinions are like Aholes. We all have them.


Yes, indeed, but I take into consideration those opinions of people who actually research and understand the issue discussed.

Some opinions, especially on this board, are just plain ignorant. It appears ignorance is bliss--you have demonstrated that to me.

oyarde
09-28-2012, 10:21 AM
Referring to the picture of the corn.The two on the left appear to be weather stressed and , or a fungus.Otherwise normal , I suspect , they did not even come from the same geographic area.

pacelli
09-28-2012, 01:58 PM
not true. Non organic commercial poultry is a disaster. They get chicks to butcher weight in weeks now using a vast mixture of steroids and hormones beginning injecting eggs with steroids. Meats are very tainted if not raised right

Not to mention what they do with the lighting systems on 48-hr timer......

kathy88
09-28-2012, 02:12 PM
Brawndo, it's got what plants crave.

Electrolytes.

jmdrake
09-28-2012, 02:43 PM
I can't watch the video quite yet.. What are your thoughts?

I feel like Whole Foods gets a lot of unfair propaganda targeted at them from leftist groups who disagree with the free market principles the owner espouses. They spread it around the internet and people get all caught up, not understanding the reason why it was created in the first place.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dannno again.

Eagles' Wings
09-28-2012, 02:58 PM
Honestly people, its not that hard to get chicken, eggs, meat from a healthy source, locally. I'd rather have eggs from donnay and oyarde or a producer close by than from a grocer (Whole Foods) any day.

Our Whole Foods is simply an all around fun time. The staff is usually friendly, trained well in customer service, the music is outstanding, often local artists, and we buy just a little of a few things we love.

GunnyFreedom
09-28-2012, 03:01 PM
8 miles down the road a local farmer sells eggs right off the farm. Best eggs I've ever had. :-)