PDA

View Full Version : Pastors pledge to defy IRS, preach politics from pulpit ahead of election




donnay
09-23-2012, 06:38 PM
Pastors pledge to defy IRS, preach politics from pulpit ahead of election

By Cristina Corbin (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/23/pastors-pledge-to-defy-irs-preach-politics-from-pulpit-ahead-election/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fmost-popular+%28Internal+-+Most+Popular+Content%29)

More than 1,000 pastors are planning to challenge the IRS next month by deliberately preaching politics ahead of the presidential election despite a federal ban on endorsements from the pulpit.

The defiant move, they hope, will prompt the IRS to enforce a 1954 tax code amendment that prohibits tax-exempt organizations, such as churches, from making political endorsements. Alliance Defending Freedom, which is holding the October summit, said it wants the IRS to press the matter so it can be decided in court. The group believes the law violates the First Amendment by “muzzling” preachers.

Continued... (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/23/pastors-pledge-to-defy-irs-preach-politics-from-pulpit-ahead-election/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fmost-popular+%28Internal+-+Most+Popular+Content%29)



There is a simply solution to this, stop taking the 501 c3 tax exemption.

Danke
09-23-2012, 06:49 PM
Churches are already exempt, no need to become a 501(c)(3) organization.

Smart3
09-23-2012, 07:00 PM
This is precisely why religious businesses (churches, mosques, temples, shrines, ashrams, etc) should not be tax exempt.

fr33
09-23-2012, 07:02 PM
As long as taxes exist, the last persons that should be exempt are churches.

RonRules
09-23-2012, 07:26 PM
As long as taxes exist, the last persons that should be exempt are churches.

Agreed, especially when tax exempt church funds are used for activities like this:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/church-of-scientology-paid-two-private-investigators-millions-to-trail/1252846

"Church of Scientology leader David Miscavige ordered surveillance on one of his former church rivals in a secret operation that lasted 25 years and ate up millions in church funds, a Texas lawsuit alleges.

Their attorney, Ray Jeffrey, said the church paid the men a total of $10 million to $12 million over the 25 years. That works out to between $33,000 and $40,000 a month.

Said Jeffrey: "You have a completely secret operation that only a small handful of people knew about, with nothing ever in writing: no contracts in writing, no invoices, no anything."

Jeffrey said the church paid the men for years by depositing cash into their bank accounts each month. Later, they were told to start a corporation, and the payments were sent to the corporate account."

awake
09-23-2012, 07:35 PM
Tax "exemption" used as a state control.

awake
09-23-2012, 07:37 PM
Their sermon should be from the book of Rothbard: "The state is a gang of thieves writ large". That sermon would make me want to go to church again.

awake
09-23-2012, 07:39 PM
This is precisely why religious businesses (churches, mosques, temples, shrines, ashrams, etc) should not be tax exempt.

Actually, this is a good case for why everyone should be tax exempt.

cindy25
09-23-2012, 07:39 PM
the black churches bus their members to the polls.

erowe1
09-23-2012, 08:03 PM
This is precisely why religious businesses (churches, mosques, temples, shrines, ashrams, etc) should not be tax exempt.

Everyone should be tax exempt.

Philhelm
09-23-2012, 08:12 PM
And the million dollar answer is:


Everyone should be tax exempt.

RonRules
09-23-2012, 08:25 PM
the black churches bus their members to the polls.

The Scientologists bus they captive members to the polls.

fr33
09-23-2012, 09:16 PM
Tax "exemption" used as a state control.I agree with you on abolishing all taxes but as long as they exist, churches should be the last place such exemptions should exist. Thier whole premise is based on politics.

Professor8000
09-23-2012, 10:43 PM
I help run a 501(c)3 Not for Profit Corporation and let me be perfectly clear when I say... Everyone Should Be Tax Exempt.

LibertyEagle
09-23-2012, 11:14 PM
I agree with you on abolishing all taxes but as long as they exist, churches should be the last place such exemptions should exist. Thier whole premise is based on politics.

What? No, they're not.

Weston White
09-24-2012, 12:10 AM
Well let’s not forget that next to bank buildings, churches are always the most elaborate appearing buildings around town (with exception to those oddly creepy all concrete Freemason and Latter-Day halls-slash-tabernacles).

Smart3
09-24-2012, 12:48 AM
What? No, they're not.
1. ( functioning as singular ) the practice or study of the art and science of forming, directing, and administrating states and other political units; the art and science of government; political science
2. ( functioning as singular ) the complex or aggregate of relationships of people in society, esp those relationships involving authority or power

RickyJ
09-24-2012, 01:04 AM
The state has no business making a law restricting the freedom of speech or religion. These pastors want to talk about politics, that is fine with me. I hope they all talk about Ron Paul, though I doubt they will.

erowe1
09-24-2012, 09:22 AM
I agree with you on abolishing all taxes but as long as they exist, churches should be the last place such exemptions should exist. Thier whole premise is based on politics.

I don't buy that. But let's say it's true. What does being based on politics have to do with the duty to pay taxes? The two things strike me as unrelated, unless you accept the status quo, which is to use tax exemption as a way of quelling political dissent.

Sonny Tufts
09-24-2012, 09:29 AM
Churches are already exempt, no need to become a 501(c)(3) organization.

No, there is no constitutional tax exemption for churches, any more than there's one for newspapers. While it's true that the Internal Revenue Code exempts churches from the normal requirement that an entity must first apply for tax-exempt status before it's recognized as a 501(c)(3) organization, the exemption from taxation is entirely statutory. Accordingly, Congress can limit the kinds of political activity such organizations can engage in.

Danke
09-24-2012, 10:00 AM
No, there is no constitutional tax exemption for churches, any more than there's one for newspapers. While it's true that the Internal Revenue Code exempts churches from the normal requirement that an entity must first apply for tax-exempt status before it's recognized as a 501(c)(3) organization, the exemption from taxation is entirely statutory. Accordingly, Congress can limit the kinds of political activity such organizations can engage in.

Wrong again wrt taxation. The IRS even openly admits this one.

fr33
09-24-2012, 10:03 AM
What? No, they're not.Religion is a voluntary government that lobbies our coercive government to adopt their religious principles.

Sonny Tufts
09-24-2012, 10:36 AM
Wrong again wrt taxation. The IRS even openly admits this one.

Citation?

Weston White
09-24-2012, 04:57 PM
No, there is no constitutional tax exemption for churches, any more than there's one for newspapers. While it's true that the Internal Revenue Code exempts churches from the normal requirement that an entity must first apply for tax-exempt status before it's recognized as a 501(c)(3) organization, the exemption from taxation is entirely statutory. Accordingly, Congress can limit the kinds of political activity such organizations can engage in.

Negative, the sole purpose of taxation is to generate revenue, being so necessary and proper in paying off the national debt, for having been incurred in the performance of (A) providing for the common defense and/or (B) general welfare of the ‘United States’ (i.e., not specific groups of “people”, but the nation, itself, as a whole); while the legitimacy of ‘taxation’ itself is not to be morphed into a governmental tool for discretionarily punishing or encouraging certain activities or purchases by the whims and agendas of those, whoever, holding public offices.

However, at present this is the very desire of the federal government and is the reason as to why our Nation is untwining itself into shambles (for such is the inevitable result, Mr. Anderson), while cities across America are seeking options for bankruptcy, and why the people thereof have been left beggaring, in-mass, for all the provisional grandness that is state and federal subsistence, err... capitulation.

Nationwide
09-29-2012, 08:33 PM
from IRS Publication 557:


"Churches. Although a church, its integrated auxiliaries, or a convention or association of churches is not required to file Form 1023 to be exempt from federal income tax or to receive tax deductible contributions, the organization may find it advantageous to obtain recognition of exemption. In this event, you should submit information showing that your organization is a church, synagogue, association or convention of churches, religious order, or religious organization that is an integral part of a church, and that it is engaged in carrying out the function of a church."
Clearly, a church isn't required to be a 501(c)(3) organization. You don't need an exemption from something that didn't apply in the first place. I contribute to both 501(c)(3) and NON-501(c)(3) organizations caring nothing about "tax deductible contributions." Why? Because I pay no income tax in the first place; that's better than a deduction. I redeem LAWFUL MONEY. I avoid private credit of the Federal Reserve. Similarly, a church can totally avoid federal control & taxes by avoiding Federal Reserve money.

Chuck Baldwin: State-Owned Churches Are Killing America (http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/archives/3022)

AGRP
09-29-2012, 09:14 PM
Im a singular church. Can I be tax exempt?

LibertyEagle
09-29-2012, 09:29 PM
Religion is a voluntary government that lobbies our coercive government to adopt their religious principles.

That is silly. You can't hang that on religion.

Ender
09-29-2012, 10:17 PM
Churches are already exempt, no need to become a 501(c)(3) organization.

That is correct.

Becoming a 501(c)3 puts you under the jurisdiction of .gov and is entirely unnecessary.

And for those of you with your own personal prejudices, churches have been tax-exempt since the founding of this country; because you do not like a certain church has no bearing on the legality and constitutional correctness of this fact.

fr33
09-29-2012, 11:54 PM
That is silly. You can't hang that on religion.Why should known lobbyists be tax-exempt while I am not?

fr33
09-29-2012, 11:56 PM
That is correct.

Becoming a 501(c)3 puts you under the jurisdiction of .gov and is entirely unnecessary.

And for those of you with your own personal prejudices, churches have been tax-exempt since the founding of this country; because you do not like a certain church has no bearing on the legality and constitutional correctness of this fact.The thieves that thrive off being exempt exploit those of us that are not tax exempt. Everyone should be exempt. Those that are exempt now, are only that way because they steal from the rest of us. Stop supporting theft.

Ender
09-30-2012, 12:33 AM
The thieves that thrive off being exempt exploit those of us that are not tax exempt. Everyone should be exempt. Those that are exempt now, are only that way because they steal from the rest of us. Stop supporting theft.

As a minister under a Vow of Poverty, I can tell you right now that I do not exploit or steal from you or anyone else. I spend my life helping others and existing on very little.

Churches have always been exempt and it keeps them free from political influence. The 501(c)3 was a ploy to draw churches under the gov. Maybe you should learn a little real history, instead of public school garbage.

CaptainAmerica
10-06-2012, 11:56 AM
As part of Pulpit Freedom Sunday, religious leaders across the country will endorse political candidates — an act that flies in the face of Internal Revenue Service rules about what tax-exempt organizations, such as churches, can and cannot do.

The IRS says tax-exempt organizations, or what they refer to as a 501(c)(3), are prohibited from participating in partisan campaigning for or against political candidates. Yet, despite what's in the rules, the agency continues to struggle to do anything about those who defy the law.

Though the regulation has been in place since 1954, in 2009, a U.S. District Court in Minnesota ruled the IRS no longer had the appropriate staff to investigate places of worship after a reorganization changed who in the agency had the authority to launch investigations.

New procedures for conducting church audits have been pending since 2009, which has left the IRS virtually impotent in conducting any kind of new investigations. The IRS did not respond to questions.

Despite the lack of manpower, organizations such as Alliance Defending Freedom, a Christian legal ministry that first launched Pulpit Freedom Sunday in 2008, say they take the IRS restriction seriously — even as they disagree with it.

"Every pastor and every church has the right to decide what their pastor preaches from the pulpit and to not have that dictated to them by the IRS," said Erik Stanley, senior legal counsel for the Arizona-based Alliance Defending Freedom, formerly the Alliance Defense Fund.



Tax code exemption /non-exemption has been a major problem with freedom of speech for decades and most people have been unaware that pastors are bound to not speaking about many subjects due to the IRS threatening to strip them of their tax exemptions


http://richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2012/10/6/pastors-sermons-will-defy-irs-rules#.UHBuvK7fnKR

Anti Federalist
10-06-2012, 12:05 PM
I'm in favor of this.

staerker
10-06-2012, 12:09 PM
You can't say what you want to say unless you pay your taxes.

GeorgiaAvenger
10-06-2012, 01:01 PM
Good for them. Defy the IRS!

CaptUSA
10-06-2012, 01:06 PM
You can't say what you want to say unless you pay your taxes.Is this a joke?

Danke
10-06-2012, 03:34 PM
Tax code exemption /non-exemption has been a major problem with freedom of speech for decades and most people have been unaware that pastors are bound to not speaking about many subjects due to the IRS threatening to strip them of their tax exemptions


http://richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2012/10/6/pastors-sermons-will-defy-irs-rules#.UHBuvK7fnKR

Churches do not need to become 501(c)3 organizations subject to IRS regulations. They are already tax exempt and have the freedom to say whatever they want and remain outside the scope of the tax code.

Peace&Freedom
10-06-2012, 05:39 PM
Churches do not need to become 501(c)3 organizations subject to IRS regulations. They are already tax exempt and have the freedom to say whatever they want and remain outside the scope of the tax code.

Amen! The problem, of course, is that these churches are not truly challenging the IRS until they renounce their 501-c3 status, and speak their mind on political issues. But operating under that status they are themselves clouding the clear constitutional issue, because the IRS can always say "they consented to be a regulated charitable organization when accepting 501-c3, so they are acting in violation of the regulations, period." The pastors have to fully get away from sitting on (or in between) both stools.

Seraphim
10-06-2012, 05:43 PM
The IRS is the extortion racket of the Federal Reserve. Fuck the IRS - it's an irrelevant goon squad once the real source - The Fed - is attacked.

Publicly supporting FEDERAL INCOME TAX evasion is the most humanitarian and patriotic thing you can do. ACTUALLY evading your Federal Income Tax is SAINT like. That's how complacent and fucked up things are - I truly believe that those who tell the IRS to fuck off are human incarnations of angels.

staerker
10-06-2012, 09:43 PM
Is this a joke?
Yes. :cool: