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View Full Version : ARCTIC ICE MELT: Faster than ANY TIME in the Planet’s Past




presence
09-23-2012, 06:09 PM
The Arctic melt is also happening faster than at any time in the planet’s past, says Barber, geological and historical records indicate it took tens of thousands of years to move to a seasonally-ice-free Arctic in the past.“Now we are getting there in tens of years, not tens of thousands of years,”

http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/technology/story.html?id=7279382


“The level that we are at now is unprecedented over the last 1,450 years,” says Barber. “And as far as we know we have to go back over a million years to find a period when the Arctic was seasonally ice-free in the summer.”


Rising global temperaturess are also transforming northern ecosystems, melting permafrost and shattering ancient ice shelves. Giant icebergs from the disintegrating shelves are now sailing through Canada’s Beaufort Sea, creating a new hazard for oil rigs, says Barber, whose team is involved in national and international efforts to get a read on the new Arctic reality and it implications.

James Madison
09-23-2012, 08:22 PM
http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/technology/story.html?id=7279382


The Arctic melt is also happening faster than at any time in the planet’s past


The level that we are at now is unprecedented over the last 1,450 years

:rolleyes:

torchbearer
09-23-2012, 08:29 PM
:rolleyes:

at least the creationist gives the earth history 10,000 years. these scientist are nutty.

youngbuck
09-23-2012, 09:08 PM
Isn't antarctic ice rapidly increasing, though?

presence
09-24-2012, 06:06 AM
Isn't antarctic ice rapidly increasing, though?

The surface area is increasing, but the thickness is decreasing and the water underneath is warmer than it has been. It looks like more from above... but its actually far less; poised to quickly disintegrate.


But Antarctic sea ice is growing!
It's a sure thing that when Arctic sea ice hits new record lows, global warming contrarians will attempt to draw attention away from the Arctic by talking about sea ice around Antarctica. A case in point is an article that appeared in Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2012/09/19/antarctic-sea-ice-sets-another-record/) on Wednesday by James Taylor. Mr. Taylor wrote, "Antarctic sea ice set another record this past week, with the most amount of ice ever recorded on day 256 of the calendar year (September 12 of this leap year)...Amusingly, page after page of Google News results for Antarctic sea ice record show links to news articles breathlessly spreading fear and warning of calamity because Arctic sea ice recently set a 33-year low. Sea ice around one pole is shrinking while sea ice around another pole is growing. This sure sounds like a global warming crisis to me."

This analysis is highly misleading,

as it ignores the fact that Antarctica has actually been warming in recent years. In fact, the oceans surrounding Antarctica have warmed faster than the global trend, and there has been accelerated melting of ocean-terminating Antarctic glaciers in recent years as a result of warmer waters eating away the glaciers. There is great concern among scientists about the stability of two glaciers in West Antarctica (the Pine Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Island_Glacier) and Thwaites Glaciers) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thwaites_Glacier) due the increase in ocean temperatures. These glaciers may suffer rapid retreats that will contribute significantly to global sea level rise.

Despite the warming going on in Antarctica, there has been a modest long-term increase in Antarctic sea ice in recent decades. So, how can more sea ice form on warmer ocean waters? As explained in an excellent article at skepticalscience.com (http://www.skepticalscience.com/antarctica-gaining-ice-intermediate.htm), the reasons are complex. One reason is that the Southern Ocean consists of a layer of cold water near the surface and a layer of warmer water below. Water from the warmer layer rises up to the surface, melting sea ice. However, as air temperatures warm, the amount of rain and snowfall also increases. This freshens the surface waters, leading to a surface layer less dense than the saltier, warmer water below. The layers become more stratified and mix less. Less heat is transported upwards from the deeper, warmer layer. Hence less sea ice is melted (Zhang 2007). (http://psc.apl.washington.edu/zhang/Pubs/Zhang_Antarctic_20-11-2515.pdf) As the planet continues to warm, climate models predict that the growth in Antarctic sea ice will reverse, as the waters become too warm to support so much sea ice.http://classic.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2237




at least the creationist gives the earth history 10,000 years. these scientist are nutty.



Many expect the Arctic could be “seasonally ice free” in the summer within a decade.

“I’d say 2020, plus or minus five years,” says Barber.
[]
as far as we know we have to go back over a million years to find a period when the Arctic was seasonally ice-free in the summer.”

angelatc
09-24-2012, 06:13 AM
OMG!!!! We better subsidize even nmore inefficient methods of producing power and run our economy even farther into the ground, while third world nations ignore the issue and take away what little manufacturing we have left!!

Working Poor
09-24-2012, 06:32 AM
oh kids the volcano is going to blow...

PaulConventionWV
09-24-2012, 06:33 AM
http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/technology/story.html?id=7279382

OMG I'm so scared!!!

presence
09-24-2012, 07:35 AM
OMG I'm so scared!!!
"If you study science deep enough and long enough, it will force you to believe in God." ~Lord Kelvin




Don't be scared. Just remember God.

ShaneEnochs
09-24-2012, 07:36 AM
Does this mean Florida will finally become Atlantis and sink below the ocean like in An Inconvenient Truth?

presence
09-24-2012, 07:45 AM
Does this mean Florida will finally become Atlantis and sink below the ocean like in An Inconvenient Truth?


And the sea-bed itself is worryingly smoother than expected, making the whole Filchner-Ronne Ice Shelf vulnerable to collapse. "This is a significant discovery in a region of Antarctica that at present we know little about," Professor Martin Siegert, project lead from the University of Edinburgh, said. "The area is on the brink of change, but it is impossible to predict what the impact of this change might be without further work." One potential impact (http://www.sciencemag.org/content/324/5929/901), though, could be felt world-wide. If, following an ice-shelf collapse, much of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet were to be released into the ocean, sea-levels could rise dramatically - by

up to 12 feet.
http://www.earthtimes.org/climate/west-antarctic-ice-shelf-nudge-push-collapse/1977/


The maximum increase is concentrated along the Pacific and Atlantic seaboard of the United States, where the value is about 25% greater than the global mean, even for the case of a partial collapse.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/324/5929/901


Ice shelf primed for collapse by giant sub-ice pools


The basins that the team have discovered beneath the ice-shelf are huge - over 7,700 square miles in area, and up to a mile deep. That's a pool the size of New Jersey that the sheet is balanced on. Having so much of the ice-shelf underlain by sea is big problem, because scientists have already discovered that warm waters are nibbling the margins of the continent's ice shelves. If that warmer water were to invade these newly discovered pools, change could come fast.
"If we were to invent a set of conditions conducive to retreat of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, this would be it

presence
09-24-2012, 07:55 AM
OMG!!!! We better subsidize even nmore inefficient methods of producing power and run our economy even farther into the ground, while third world nations ignore the issue and take away what little manufacturing we have left!!


The first federal energy subsidies began in 1916, and until the 1970s they “focused almost exclusively on increasing the production of domestic oil and natural gas,

http://fuelfix.com/blog/2012/09/24/decades-of-federal-dollars-helped-fuel-gas-boom/

OMG!!! Maybe we should just continue subsidizing industries that place the control of energy in the hands of the multinational few.

VanBummel
09-24-2012, 07:56 AM
Does this mean Florida will finally become Atlantis and sink below the ocean like in An Inconvenient Truth?

We can only hope.

Danan
09-24-2012, 08:11 AM
More people die as a consequence of extreme cold than of extreme heat. Traditionally warmer periods have been great for humanity and flora & fauna altogether. I hope global warming is happening.

Even if the earth's temperature increased, there is no compelling argument why that would be a universally bad thing. I bet people in Greenland would be quite happy.

And it doesn't happen overnight. If the sea-level rises by a few inches per decade, I guess you have more than enough time to settle somewhere else.

Travlyr
09-24-2012, 08:12 AM
OMG!!!! We better subsidize even more inefficient methods of producing power and run our economy even farther into the ground, while third world nations ignore the issue and take away what little manufacturing we have left!!

Definitely, and taxes must be raised to pay for this.

green73
09-24-2012, 08:15 AM
Great blog for climate realists
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/

JK/SEA
09-24-2012, 08:36 AM
shit happens...

next.

yawn.

Acala
09-24-2012, 08:46 AM
Hey! Climate on earth has never changed before! Must be humans. Only government can solve THIS problem!

TonySutton
09-24-2012, 08:52 AM
“And as far as we know we have to go back over a million years to find a period when the Arctic was seasonally ice-free in the summer.”

"As far as we know" - so they aren't sure

"we have to go back over a million years" - so it happened before and the planet is still here

Origanalist
09-24-2012, 09:10 AM
"As far as we know" - so they aren't sure

"we have to go back over a million years" - so it happened before and the planet is still here

Doesn't matter, we must give government more power before it's too late. :eek:

PaulConventionWV
09-24-2012, 09:18 AM
http://www.earthtimes.org/climate/west-antarctic-ice-shelf-nudge-push-collapse/1977/


http://www.sciencemag.org/content/324/5929/901

12 feet, huh? Wasn't it like a hundred meters in an inconvenient truth? Oh, how the numbers have changed.

Aratus
09-24-2012, 11:02 AM
12 feet creates a significant degree of coastal flooding
as we all again debate if its pure climate change or if its
global warming or a well timed mix of both these things.

presence
09-24-2012, 11:25 AM
shit happens...

next.

yawn.

I'm glad you're not in charge of decommissioning nuclear waste.

presence
09-24-2012, 11:30 AM
"As far as we know" - so they aren't sure

no.. as in... we've studied ice cores as far back as a million years and this level of melting is unprecedented in geological history that far back.



"we have to go back over a million years" - so it happened before and the planet is still here

Right... but all the species that were here back then.... not so much.

Acala
09-24-2012, 11:44 AM
no.. as in... we've studied ice cores as far back as a million years and this level of melting is unprecedented in geological history that far back.



Right... but all the species that were here back then.... not so much.

Are you saying there is evidence of a correlation between mass extinctions and the melting of ice caps? Citation please

libertyjam
09-24-2012, 11:49 AM
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17239/Dont-Panic-Arctic-Ice-Hits-Record-Low-Climate-Depot-Explains--Arctic-melting-hype

Arctic climate goes in cycles.

See: 1935 Arctic Russian Ship's Trip In Perspective: The map shows the '2007 record low' Arctic ice extent, and the red dot indicates where a Russian boat sailed to in 1935 (http://www.climatedepot.com/a/16129/1935-Arctic-Russian-Ships-Trip-In-Perspective-The-map-shows-the-2007-record-low-Arctic-ice-extent-and-the-red-dot-indicates-where-a-Russian-boat-sailed-to-in-1935-ndash-in-icefree-water) – in ice-free water' -- 'Apparently there was less ice in the Eastern Arctic in 1935 than there was during the all-time-record-lowest-Armageddon-we-are-all-doomed-irreversible-tipping-point summer of 2007'


25 Apr 1939

“Remarkable Changes”

“Our generation is living in a period when remarkable changes are taking place almost everywhere throughout the world,” writes Professor L. Berg, of the Soviet Academy of Sciences. ”‘Certainly these widely distributed phenomena cannot be due to the action of the Gulf Stream, which, however, naturally receives its share of the greater general warmth.” The slow thawing of the Arctic is given as a partial explanation for the record voyages of Soviet ice-breakers to northern latitudes, which have never before been reached by navigating vessels. The Sadko in 1935, in ice- free water of the North Kara Sea, steamed to 82 degrees, 42 minutes of northern latitude—an all-time record.


Arctic Ice Same Thickness As 1940: 'CryoSat shows that Arctic sea ice averaged 2.0 meters (6.5 feet) thick in February, 2012 (http://www.climatedepot.com/a/15802/Arctic-Ice-Same-Thickness-As-1940-CryoSat-shows-that-Arctic-sea-ice-averaged-20-meters-65-feet-thick-in-February-2012) -- 'In Feb. 1940, Arctic ice also averaged 6.5 feet thick. Ice thickness is the same as it was 72 years ago'

NASA data shows Arctic was warmer in the 1930's and warmed 75% faster (http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2012/07/nasa-data-shows-arctic-was-warmer-in.html): 'According to a graph published on the NASA Earth Observatory site, Arctic temperatures were warmer in 1930's than at the end of the 20th century. In addition, the graph shows the Arctic warmed ~1.6C over the 19 year period from ~1918-1937 at a rate of 0.84C/decade, 75% faster than the 0.48C/decade from 1980-2000. Thus, alarmist claims that recent Arctic warming is unprecedented or accelerating are bogus'

New Arctic Study: Norwegian scientists analyze temps dating from 1912 & find temp changes are cyclic and the cycles are mainly explained by the activity of the sun (http://www.climatedepot.com/a/14186/New-Arctic-Study-Norwegian-scientists-analyze-temps-dating-from-1912--find-temp--changes-are-cyclic-and-the-cycles-are-mainly-explained-by-the-activity-of-the-sun)

Also, studies show Medieval times were warmer: Paper finds Medieval Warm Period in Arctic was much warmer than the present -- 'A paper published in Polar Research finds that temps at two sites in Arctic were much warmer than at the end of 20th century. At one site, Longyearbyen, the11-year running-mean peak winter temperature was a remarkable 9C warmer than at the end of the record in 2000. At the 2nd site, Vardo, the11-year running-mean peak winter temperature was about 3.3C warmer than at the end of the record in 2000'

EU Research Confirms Roman Warming Period In Arctic Regions Warmer Than Modern (http://www.climatedepot.com/a/13969/New-EU-Research-Confirms-Roman-Warming-Period-In-Arctic-Regions-Warmer-Than-Modern)

In addition, Arctic ice fluctuations have been documented going back thousands of years.

New Peer-Reviewed Study Shows Arctic COOLING Over last 1500 years! - Feb 5, 2008 - Published in Climate Dynamics on 30 January 2008 (http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/1724)

New Arctic Study published in Climate Dynamics, and the work was conducted by Håkan Grudd of Stockholm University's Department of Physical Geography and Quaternary Geology - Published online: 30 January 2008 - Excerpt: “The late-twentieth century is not exceptionally warm in the new Torneträsk record: On decadal-to-century timescales, periods around AD 750, 1000, 1400, and 1750 were all equally warm, or warmer. The warmest summers in this new reconstruction occur in a 200-year period centred on AD 1000. A 'Medieval Warm Period' is supported by other paleoclimate evidence from northern Fennoscandia, although the new tree-ring evidence from Tornetraäsk suggests that this period was much warmer than previously recognised.” < > “The new Torneträsk summer temperature reconstruction shows a trend of -0.3°C over the last 1,500 years.” Paper available here: & Full Paper (pdf) available here:

PNAS study on Arctic temps: 'These results support the notion that the enhanced wintertime warming over high northern latitudes from 1965 to 2000 was mainly a reflection of unforced variability of the coupled climate system (http://judithcurry.com/2012/08/23/apportioning-natural-and-forced-components-in-the-arctic-amplification/)' – Prof. Judith Curry: 'While there is a trend in the Arctic, the amplification is associated with natural internal variability'

See: Paper finds Arctic sea ice extent 8,000 years ago was less than half of the 'record' low 2007 level (http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17228/Paper-finds-Arctic-sea-ice-extent-8000-years-ago-was-less-than-half-of-the-record-low-2007-level) -- 'A paper published in Science finds summer Arctic Sea Ice extent during the Holocene Thermal Maximum 8,000 years ago was 'less than half of the record low 2007 level.' The paper finds a 'general buildup of sea ice from ~ 6,000 years before the present' which reached a maximum during the Little Ice Age and 'attained its present (year 2000) extent at 4,000 years before the present'

At the same time, the Antarctic has been at or near sea ice extent satellite record.

Arctic Ice: 'It doesn't matter that Antarctic sea ice is increasing. It doesn't matter that Hansen forecast most of the ice loss in the southern hemisphere'
(http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17235/Arctic-Ice-It--doesnt-matter-that-Antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing-It-doesnt-matter-that-Hansen-forecast-most-of-the-ice-loss-in-the-southern-hemisphere)
Related Links:

Warmist Brad Johnson Adopts Young Earth Creationism: Johnson: 'As RNC climate deniers party, Arctic sea ice is in free fall, about to go under 4 m km2 for first time in human history' (http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17233/Warmist-Brad-Johnson-Adopts-Young-Earth-Creationism-Johnson-As-RNC-climate-deniers-party-Arctic-sea-ice-is-in-free-fall-about-to-go-under-4-m-km2-for-first-time-in-human-history) -- Reality Check: 'According to Dr. Walt Meier at NSIDC, the Arctic was completely free of ice sometime between 5,000 and 15,000 years ago. Apparently Brad Johnson believes that human history is less than 5,000 years. There is nothing unusual happening the Arctic. Some years are a little higher or lower than others'

The Dirty Little Secret About Arctic Ice
Posted on September 23, 2012
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2012/09/23/the-dirty-little-secret-about-arctic-ice/

The vast majority of multi-year ice is lost during the winter, not the summer. Winter winds blow the thick ice out into the North Atlantic where it melts when it contacts warmer water.

Between 1988 and 1996, two thirds of the five year old ice disappeared.
http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/1988-1996_oldice21.gif

Polar sea ice could set ANOTHER record this year
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/21/arctic_antarctic_sea_ice_record/

Exceptionally large amounts of it down south right now

By Lewis Page • Get more from this author

Posted in Science, 21st September 2012 09:14 GMT

The world's media is extremely excited at the thirty-year record low extent of sea ice at the North Pole which occurred just days ago: but almost nobody is reporting on the fact that something almost equally unusual is going on down around the coasts of Antarctica.

presence
09-24-2012, 12:30 PM
I get the sense if a cat 5 hurricane was rapidly approaching your home, some of you would get smacked in the head with debris while standing there on your front porch preaching:

"this shit happens all the time and I'll be damned if I want the government to help,"

rather than discussing a game plan to put your self, family, and neighbors out of harms way. There seems to be such a knee jerk "keep the government out of it" reaction on these boards we can't even objectively discuss the facts presented to us and formulate intelligent contingencies be they personal, local, or national security related. I didn't even begin this thread with a "government should subsize alternative energy" equation and no one even took that stance before some of you defended against it. I'm the kind of person when a storm is coming I have my windows boarded, I have my chainsaws hot, water in jugs, and my pantry full.

You can't pretend its not there any more. The North has been reduced to a slush puppy and the South is a thin ice dam waiting to slide off the roof; the cooler is almost out of cubes and the meat is about to go rancid. Remember science class: It takes 80 calories to melt 1 gram of ice. What do all those calories do when there is no ice to melt? The ice melt happened in the past 30 years not 30,000... you want to blame it on people fine. You want to blame it on yet unknown natural cycles that are unprecedented in all of known geological history, fine. I don't really care. Personally, I think we're beyond a "what to do to stop it" equation anyway. Its coming. What do we do when it gets here is a better question now. That ice shelf may likely unleash some serious arctic tsunami shit in the very short future. Do you have a game plan? Are you so anti government intervention that you'd stick your head in the sand about what is actually happening until the waves are past your ass?

If nothing else one would think a bunch of free market capitalists would spend their time discussing ways to profit from the crisis rather than worrying about what the government does or doesn't do. What would wise industry do to hedge against sudden sea level rise? what industries are inherently well hedged against such? What are you doing? How many of our domestic military bases could be inundated? What about our boys abroad? What about our trading partners? There are so many more facets to the artic ice discussion than "Solyndra is a bad idea."

I moved recently. 1000 ft above sea level was a baseline criteria.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou1hODlpseY&feature=related

and that's why they happen.

presence

libertyjam
09-24-2012, 12:38 PM
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17239/Dont-Panic-Arctic-Ice-Hits-Record-Low-Climate-Depot-Explains--Arctic-melting-hype
Note how eerily similar all of this sounds to a November 2nd, 1922 article in the Washington Post article titlted “Arctic Ocean Getting Warm; Seals Vanish and Icebergs Melt (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/16/you-ask-i-provide-november-2nd-1922-arctic-ocean-getting-warm-seals-vanish-and-icebergs-melt/)”:” The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consul Ifft, at Bergen, Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone...Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.”

But there more Arctic hype from yesteryear. See: The Arctic Con: Polar Meltdown Claims – We Have heard them all before – in the 1930s, 40s & 50s etc. (http://www.climatedepot.com/a/14758/The-Arctic-Con-Polar-Meltdown-Claims-ndash-We-Have-heard-them-all-before-ndash-in-the-1930s-40s--50s-etc)

Here is a very small sampling of past Arctic ice scares when Arctic was in warm cycle:

1922: 'Extraordinary warmth in the Arctic during the last few years' -- Polar ice sheet to melt down? (http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9897/1922-Extraordinary-warmth-in-the-Arctic-during-the-last-few-years--Polar-ice-sheet-to-melt-down) -- Scientists astonished by Arctic warming. Northern United States to become “sub-tropical.”

1923 Shock News: 'Radical' Climate Change Melting Down The North Pole (http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17156/1923-Shock-News-Radical-Climate-Change-Melting-Down-The-North-Pole)

1935: Russian Ship Sailed 500 Miles From The North Pole In Ice-Free Water (http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2012/08/21/1935-russian-ship-sailed-500-miles-from-the-north-pole-in-ice-free-water-2/) catastrophic proportions and people living in lowlands along their shores would be inundated...temps in Arctic had increased 10 deg. F since 1900–an 'enormous' rise'

Flashback 1947 : International Agency Needed To Stop The Arctic Meltdown: Same story – different millennium -- 'May 30 1947 (http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17141/Flashback-1947--International-Agency-Needed-To-Stop-The-Arctic-Meltdown-Same-story-ndash-different-millennium).-The possibility of a prodigious rise in the surface of ocean with resultant widespread inundation if Antarctic ice regions and the major Greenland icecap should reduce at same rate as present melting in Arctic...'

Flashback 1947: 'Alarming' Rise In Arctic Temperatures To Melt Greenland And Flood The Coasts Posted on August 18, 2012 -- Ten degrees of warming in Arctic with CO2 at 320 PPM' (http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17129/Flashback-1947-Alarming-Rise-In-Arctic-Temperatures-To-Melt-Greenland-And-Flood-The-Coasts-Posted-on-August-18-2012--Ten-degrees-of-warming-in-Arctic-with-CO2-at-320-PPM)

We've heard it all before! 1922 Tipping Point: Antarctic Ice Sheet Collapse Will Lead To Biblical Flood (http://www.climatedepot.com/a/12180/Weve-heard-it-all-before-1922-Tipping-Point-Antarctic-Ice-Sheet-Collapse-Will-Lead-To-Biblical-Flood)

July 4, 1907: Arctic Heat Record – Hottest Place In Europe (http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/08/03/july-4-1908-arctic-heat-record-hottest-place-in-europe/)

ninepointfive
09-24-2012, 12:43 PM
OMG!!!! We better subsidize even nmore inefficient methods of producing power and run our economy even farther into the ground, while third world nations ignore the issue and take away what little manufacturing we have left!!


Does this mean Florida will finally become Atlantis and sink below the ocean like in An Inconvenient Truth?


http://fuelfix.com/blog/2012/09/24/decades-of-federal-dollars-helped-fuel-gas-boom/

OMG!!! Maybe we should just continue subsidizing industries that place the control of energy in the hands of the multinational few.


Definitely, and taxes must be raised to pay for this.


shit happens...

next.

yawn.


Hey! Climate on earth has never changed before! Must be humans. Only government can solve THIS problem!




YES! YEESSS! OUR BRAINWASHING IS WEEERRKING! RON PAUL FORUMS WIL BE OUURRRZ!

http://i.qkme.me/3qgd43.jpg

http://rossotron.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/6a00d4142121106a4700d414345fc63c7f.jpg

Acala
09-24-2012, 02:13 PM
I get the sense if a cat 5 hurricane was rapidly approaching your home, some of you would get smacked in the head with debris while standing there on your front porch preaching:

"this shit happens all the time and I'll be damned if I want the government to help,"

rather than discussing a game plan to put your self, family, and neighbors out of harms way. There seems to be such a knee jerk "keep the government out of it" reaction on these boards we can't even objectively discuss the facts presented to us and formulate intelligent contingencies be they personal, local, or national security related. I didn't even begin this thread with a "government should subsize alternative energy" equation and no one even took that stance before some of you defended against it. I'm the kind of person when a storm is coming I have my windows boarded, I have my chainsaws hot, water in jugs, and my pantry full.

You can't pretend its not there any more. The North has been reduced to a slush puppy and the South is a thin ice dam waiting to slide off the roof; the cooler is almost out of cubes and the meat is about to go rancid. Remember science class: It takes 80 calories to melt 1 gram of ice. What do all those calories do when there is no ice to melt? The ice melt happened in the past 30 years not 30,000... you want to blame it on people fine. You want to blame it on yet unknown natural cycles that are unprecedented in all of known geological history, fine. I don't really care. Personally, I think we're beyond a "what to do to stop it" equation anyway. Its coming. What do we do when it gets here is a better question now. That ice shelf may likely unleash some serious arctic tsunami shit in the very short future. Do you have a game plan? Are you so anti government intervention that you'd stick your head in the sand about what is actually happening until the waves are past your ass?

If nothing else one would think a bunch of free market capitalists would spend their time discussing ways to profit from the crisis rather than worrying about what the government does or doesn't do. What would wise industry do to hedge against sudden sea level rise? what industries are inherently well hedged against such? What are you doing? How many of our domestic military bases could be inundated? What about our boys abroad? What about our trading partners? There are so many more facets to the artic ice discussion than "Solyndra is a bad idea."

I moved recently. 1000 ft above sea level was a baseline criteria.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou1hODlpseY&feature=related

and that's why they happen.

presence

1. Maybe the earth is getting warmer. That depends on where you stick the thermometer.

2. Maybe it is resulting from human activity. This is even less likely, given that the earth has gone through countless warming cycles before humans even existed. And other planets appear to be warming as well.

3. Maybe it is going to continue until difficulties develop. NOBODY has the slightest CLUE about this. Anyone who tells you they can predict it with their computer model is full of crap. Weather is the paradigm chaotic system. It cannot be predicted with computer models. They can't even tell you if, where, or when a hurricane that has already formed is going to make landfall more than a couple days out. But they are going to predict the temperature in fifty years? Ha.

4. Even if all the above is true, just what exactly do you think YOU are going to do about it, puny human?

5. The absolutely LAST place I would go for help would be the government. Government ruins everything it touches.

JK/SEA
09-24-2012, 04:05 PM
i never see any study that mentions the Earth and its MOLTEN CORE...you know..lava...hot molten rock..gives off HEAT...lotsa heat....

nevermind..its gotta be humans...it just hasta be. Raise my taxes please. I don't wanna die!

coastie
09-24-2012, 06:53 PM
These glaciers may suffer rapid retreats that will contribute significantly to global sea level rise.



Oh shit! I better drink this rum and coke quick, else my cup will overflow from the melting ice!!!!!.


<guzzles

angelatc
09-24-2012, 07:38 PM
Hey! Climate on earth has never changed before! Must be humans. Only government can solve THIS problem!

And it has to be WORLD government! Dear God, we need a world government. If you have a minute. Or maybe you can just guzzle the melting ice, so Florida doesn't get flooded. Thanks!

coastie
09-24-2012, 08:06 PM
And it has to be WORLD government! Dear God, we need a world government. If you have a minute. Or maybe you can just guzzle the melting ice, so Florida doesn't get flooded. Thanks!

And Florida is SO utterly fucked if(when?) it does happen. Even my ~60 mile inland retreat wouldn't be safe, it would be underwater as well.

BenIsForRon
09-25-2012, 12:41 AM
OMG!!!! We better subsidize even nmore inefficient methods of producing power and run our economy even farther into the ground, while third world nations ignore the issue and take away what little manufacturing we have left!!

Yeah, I'm so jealous of those third world nations and all their industry.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs37/i/2008/281/3/8/Shanghai_pollution_by_Sssilent.jpg

PaulConventionWV
09-25-2012, 10:38 AM
12 feet creates a significant degree of coastal flooding
as we all again debate if its pure climate change or if its
global warming or a well timed mix of both these things.

LOL wake me up when it's time to start running.

PaulConventionWV
09-25-2012, 10:41 AM
I get the sense if a cat 5 hurricane was rapidly approaching your home, some of you would get smacked in the head with debris while standing there on your front porch preaching:

"this shit happens all the time and I'll be damned if I want the government to help,"

rather than discussing a game plan to put your self, family, and neighbors out of harms way. There seems to be such a knee jerk "keep the government out of it" reaction on these boards we can't even objectively discuss the facts presented to us and formulate intelligent contingencies be they personal, local, or national security related. I didn't even begin this thread with a "government should subsize alternative energy" equation and no one even took that stance before some of you defended against it. I'm the kind of person when a storm is coming I have my windows boarded, I have my chainsaws hot, water in jugs, and my pantry full.

You can't pretend its not there any more. The North has been reduced to a slush puppy and the South is a thin ice dam waiting to slide off the roof; the cooler is almost out of cubes and the meat is about to go rancid. Remember science class: It takes 80 calories to melt 1 gram of ice. What do all those calories do when there is no ice to melt? The ice melt happened in the past 30 years not 30,000... you want to blame it on people fine. You want to blame it on yet unknown natural cycles that are unprecedented in all of known geological history, fine. I don't really care. Personally, I think we're beyond a "what to do to stop it" equation anyway. Its coming. What do we do when it gets here is a better question now. That ice shelf may likely unleash some serious arctic tsunami shit in the very short future. Do you have a game plan? Are you so anti government intervention that you'd stick your head in the sand about what is actually happening until the waves are past your ass?

If nothing else one would think a bunch of free market capitalists would spend their time discussing ways to profit from the crisis rather than worrying about what the government does or doesn't do. What would wise industry do to hedge against sudden sea level rise? what industries are inherently well hedged against such? What are you doing? How many of our domestic military bases could be inundated? What about our boys abroad? What about our trading partners? There are so many more facets to the artic ice discussion than "Solyndra is a bad idea."

I moved recently. 1000 ft above sea level was a baseline criteria.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou1hODlpseY&feature=related

and that's why they happen.

presence

The government is the one that made up this whole climate change catastrophe nonsense in the first place. That's the only reason we're even talking about it.

jbauer
09-25-2012, 11:13 AM
Global warming or not we should be conscience of the energy we use. Aren't fiscal conservatives (for those that are) supposed to be conservative?

I can't tell you whether we're doing it or not but you probably can't argue that the burning of fosil fuels creates carbon dioxide and for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The question shouldn't be what we're doing but how can we without significantly hampering lifestyle become conservatives for our environment.

jbauer
09-25-2012, 11:14 AM
The government is the one that made up this whole climate change catastrophe nonsense in the first place. That's the only reason we're even talking about it.

Can you honestly say the weather isn't much different today then it was 10, 20 or 30+ years ago?

donnay
09-25-2012, 11:23 AM
Al Gore will save us! Give him your money and he will stop spewing hot air!

http://rashmanly.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/fffgggg-meme-generator-climate-disruption-non-believers-threaten-my-income-6ba5df.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVmk3lUYdPA

VanBummel
09-25-2012, 11:31 AM
And it has to be WORLD government! Dear God, we need a world government. If you have a minute. Or maybe you can just guzzle the melting ice, so Florida doesn't get flooded. Thanks!

But we've already left debris in space outside of Earth's atmosphere! I say we jump straight to solar system government. How can we fight the effects of greenhouse gasses without the government regulating our sunlight exposure?

Acala
09-25-2012, 11:47 AM
Global warming or not we should be conscience of the energy we use. Aren't fiscal conservatives (for those that are) supposed to be conservative?

I can't tell you whether we're doing it or not but you probably can't argue that the burning of fosil fuels creates carbon dioxide and for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The question shouldn't be what we're doing but how can we without significantly hampering lifestyle become conservatives for our environment.

I have 2kw solar panels on my roof, a 1600 gallon rainwater cistern, and drive a VW TDI Golf. I have a variety of reasons for trying to live efficiently. The idiotic propaganda from government-funded "scientists" is not among the reasons.

Acala
09-25-2012, 11:49 AM
Can you honestly say the weather isn't much different today then it was 10, 20 or 30+ years ago?
Why would you ever think weather is NOT going to change? If the climate doesn't change it would be the first time in the history of the planet that it didn't. I'm betting that weather is going to continue to be a dynamic, chaotic, changing process, as it ALWAYS has been on earth.