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Anti Federalist
09-23-2012, 12:25 AM
And 72 percent of parents wanted it.

SMH...Who are these people?




Middle Schools Add a Team Rule: Get a Drug Test

By MARY PILON

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/sports/even-some-middle-schools-now-test-for-drugs.html?google_editors_picks=true&_r=0

Published: September 22, 2012

MILFORD, Pa. — As a 12-year-old seventh grader, Glenn and Kathy Kiederer’s older daughter wanted to play sports at Delaware Valley Middle School here. She also wanted to join the scrapbooking club.

One day she took home a permission slip. It said that to participate in the club or any school sport, she would have to consent to drug testing.

“They were asking a 12-year-old to pee in a cup,” Kathy Kiederer said. “I have a problem with that. They’re violating her right to privacy over scrapbooking? Sports?”

Olympic athletes must submit urine samples to prove they are not doping. The same is true for Tour de France cyclists, N.F.L. players, college athletes and even some high school athletes. Now, children in grades as low as middle school are being told that providing a urine sample is required to play sports or participate in extracurricular activities like drama and choir.

Such drug testing at the middle school level is confounding students and stirring objections from parents and proponents of civil liberties.

The Kiederers, whose two daughters are now in high school, are plaintiffs in a lawsuit against the Delaware Valley School District, with the daughters identified only by their first initials, A. and M. The parents said that mandatory drug testing was unnecessary and that it infringed on their daughters’ rights. (For privacy reasons, they asked that their daughters’ first names not be published.)

A lawyer for the school district declined to comment, citing the pending litigation.

It is difficult to gauge how many middle schools conduct drug tests on students. States with middle schools that conduct drug testing include Florida, Alabama, Missouri, West Virginia, Arkansas, Ohio, New Jersey and Texas.

Some coaches, teachers and school administrators said drug-testing programs served as a deterrent for middle school students encountering drugs of all kinds, including steroids, marijuana and alcohol.

“We wanted to do it to create a general awareness of drug prevention,” said Steve Klotz, assistant superintendent at Maryville School District in Missouri. “We’re no different than any other community. We have kids who are making those decisions.”

There are no known instances of a middle school student testing positive for performance-enhancing drugs like steroids or human growth hormone. The few positive results among middle school students have been attributed to marijuana, officials said, and even those cases are rare.

Maryville’s drug-testing program, which includes most of its middle and high school students, begins this fall after officials spent 18 months reviewing other programs in the state, Mr. Klotz said. In the fall of 2011, Mr. Klotz said, the school board conducted a survey of parents, and 72 percent said that a drug-testing program was necessary. The cost will be $5,000 to $7,000 a year and will come from the school’s general operating budget.

“Drug testing is a multibillion-dollar industry,” said Dr. Linn Goldberg, head of the Division of Health Promotion and Sports Medicine at the Oregon Health and Science University. “They go to these schools and say it’s great. But do the schools actually look at the data? Schools don’t know what to do.”

Drug testing for high school athletes, which has been around for years, was deemed constitutional in a 1995 United States Supreme Court ruling. Some districts have expanded their drug-testing programs in recent years to include middle school students.

In 2003, the Department of Education started a program that offered federal money for drug testing in grades 6 through 12, and the last of the grants will be closed out this fall. The program, following the outlines of the Supreme Court decision, allowed testing for students who participated in school activities, or whose parents chose to enroll them.

In the 2004-5 school year, an estimated 14 percent of public school districts conducted some form of random drug testing, according to a Department of Education report. But middle school testing is not thoroughly tracked by officials.

The nature of drug-testing programs at the middle school level varies by school district. In general, an outside testing company conducts the tests under contract with school authorities. Students are generally given little, if any, advance notice and are pulled away from class and asked to urinate in a cup — unsupervised, to comply with privacy laws.

DerailingDaTrain
09-23-2012, 12:32 AM
That's how it has always been where I'm from. If the kid wants to participate in any clubs or sports programs they are required to get drug tested.

emazur
09-23-2012, 12:51 AM
Why if we don't want kids doing doing drugs in the streets, we need to have them doing extra curricular activities after school. Unless they test positive on a drug test - those little bastards are better off doing drugs in the streets.

That logic is inline with the viewpoint of the masses, so this should come as no surprise:
http://img.imgur.com/yhAGh.jpg

Anti Federalist
09-23-2012, 12:54 AM
That's how it has always been where I'm from. If the kid wants to participate in any clubs or sports programs they are required to get drug tested.

No, I can assure that's not always how it's been.

Perfect example of how tyranny acclimates the people.

"There has always been TSA".

"Seat belt roadblocks? It's always been that way."

"Those surveillance cameras have always been there."

"We've always been at war with Eastasia."

Like Winston Smith, I have a memory that works.

It has not always been like this in Oceania.

tangent4ronpaul
09-23-2012, 01:05 AM
Come on guys... this is just another case of too little too late. If we really want to fix the problem, we need to chip um, fit um with shock collars and GPS tracking units, piss test um and give all the girls IUD's... say in pre-school. At birth would be better! :rolleyes:

-t

donnay
09-23-2012, 01:20 AM
The D.A.R.E. programs did nothing more than introduce the kids to the street drugs.

Besides most of the kids in government school are not really drugged out on street drugs any way, most of them are on prescription drugs because of the ADHD, bipolar, depression, etc...

LibertyEagle
09-23-2012, 01:31 AM
That's how it has always been where I'm from. If the kid wants to participate in any clubs or sports programs they are required to get drug tested.

There is no way it has ALWAYS been that way. Not that many years ago, most parents would have thrown an absolute fit over their child being drug-tested for something like this.

KCIndy
09-23-2012, 01:37 AM
No, I can assure that's not always how it's been.

Perfect example of how tyranny acclimates the people.

"There has always been TSA".

"Seat belt roadblocks? It's always been that way."

"Those surveillance cameras have always been there."

"We've always been at war with Eastasia."

Like Winston Smith, I have a memory that works.

It has not always been like this in Oceania.


Damn straight!

And if anyone doesn't "get" that last bit, I urge you - hell, I'll BEG you - to read 1984 by George Orwell.

DerailingDaTrain
09-23-2012, 01:39 AM
No. It really has been like that here for a long time. I'm not kidding and you don't have to believe me if you don't want to. Drug testing in schools is not anything new. This is an example from 1995 but they've been doing it long before that:


Vernonia School District 47J v. Acton, 515 U.S. 646 (1995) was a U.S. Supreme Court decision which upheld the constitutionality of random drug testing regimen implemented by the local public schools in Vernonia, Oregon. Under that regimen, student athletes were required to submit to random drug testing before being allowed to participate in sports. During the season, 10% of all athletes were selected at random for testing. The Supreme Court held that although the tests were searches under the Fourth Amendment, they were reasonable in light of the schools' interest in preventing teenage drug use.

They just took out the random part and made it mandatory in 2002.


Board of Education v. Earls, 536 U.S. 822 (2002), was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court upheld the constitutionality of mandatory drug testing by public schools of students participating in extracurricular activities. The legal challenge to the practice was brought by two students, Lindsay Earls and Daniel James, and their families against the school board of Tecumseh, Oklahoma, alleging that their policy requiring students to consent to random urinalysis testing for drug use violated the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

KCIndy
09-23-2012, 01:43 AM
That's how it has always been where I'm from. If the kid wants to participate in any clubs or sports programs they are required to get drug tested.


There is no way it has ALWAYS been that way. Not that many years ago, most parents would have thrown an absolute fit over their child being drug-tested for something like this.


I'm guessing we're seeing a generational shifting of viewpoints here.

Derailing, I'm guessing you're in your mid to late 20s. Am I close? :)

DerailingDaTrain
09-23-2012, 01:46 AM
You are correct.

I'd like to mention that I do not believe that a urine sample should be required to play sports or participate in clubs. I am merely pointing out that this is commonplace in public schools (not just in high school) today and started in the US many years ago.

tod evans
09-23-2012, 04:54 AM
The state is more responsible than parents.

Children aren't to be trusted.

It's a privilege for a child to participate in the programs your tax dollars pay for.

It's a "juvenile" record, it'll never follow them into adulthood.

It's for the children...

Bullshit!

Parents and taxpayers who advocate this type of oversight deserve to loose their children, and make no mistake the state will take them away "for their own good".

opal
09-23-2012, 05:53 AM
Sure has not been that way always here. My kid, pushing 30 now, was a swim team member in school (also on a non-school team since she was 10)
I don't recall her EVER being drug tested..physical yes.. piss in a cup.. not on my watch

kathy88
09-23-2012, 05:53 AM
The D.A.R.E. programs did nothing more than introduce the kids to the street drugs.

Besides most of the kids in government school are not really drugged out on street drugs any way, most of them are on prescription drugs because of the ADHD, bipolar, depression, etc...

Not true around here. There is an absolute epidemic of IV heroin use as far down as the middle school. They would NEVER require testing in our district, though because of their "image." Bunch of professionals live in our small community, and it's always had that "holier than though" air to it. They'd rather stick their noses in the ground and pretend their 12 year olds aren't shooting up in school and their daughters aren't giving BJs for drugs in the public school bathrooms.

I'm against the testing, but I understand where it comes from. The problem being that when the kids are caught, they aren't sent to treatment, they're removed from the school and sent to either the military-like "alternate" program or to a detention center.

RockEnds
09-23-2012, 07:16 AM
Sure has not been that way always here. My kid, pushing 30 now, was a swim team member in school (also on a non-school team since she was 10)
I don't recall her EVER being drug tested..physical yes.. piss in a cup.. not on my watch

My two older kids are mid-20s. They were both in year-round sports through the school in addition to chorus and other activities. They were never tested. When I was in high school, no one cared if we had it in our locker. Seriously. I remember a couple people who got in trouble for it, but it was only because they did something else to make the administration mad first. And the trouble they did get into for having drugs in their locker was pretty much a slap on the wrist. Maybe a 3 day suspension and a fine. We didn't hide our cigarettes, either. I was a smoker in high school. We couldn't smoke on school property, but as long as we stepped off the curb onto the street, we were fine. We couldn't participate in athletics if we smoked, but we could be in all the other extra-curricular activities. I guess they just didn't want us huffing and puffing as we ran down the field?

coastie
09-23-2012, 08:57 AM
The D.A.R.E. programs did nothing more than introduce the kids to the street drugs.

Besides most of the kids in government school are not really drugged out on street drugs any way, most of them are on prescription drugs because of the ADHD, bipolar, depression, etc...

Yep-and those drugs have much scarier side effects than ANY of the "street" drugs.

coastie
09-23-2012, 09:02 AM
ANd I'm 35, graduated HS in '95, and there was no drug testing at our school, or any of the other ones, for any reason.

What's telling is that testing shows only very rarely does a student pop on a test, and when they do, it's for marijuana. So lets waste THOUSANDS of dollars a year to SCARE the students into thinking they'll always be tested for drugs.....that they aren't even doing to begin with.

I need to find a another country to move to, and quick. I need a sugar momma, too.

SO rich ladies....if you're out there, I'm available. My wife will get over it(but she has to come, too).

TroySmith
09-23-2012, 09:06 AM
There's been drug testing for sports for at least 30 years. I believe they test for steroids and PED's too. Drugs are also a pervasive problem starting in the middle school level.

Origanalist
09-23-2012, 09:16 AM
No. It really has been like that here for a long time. I'm not kidding and you don't have to believe me if you don't want to. Drug testing in schools is not anything new. This is an example from 1995 but they've been doing it long before that:



They just took out the random part and made it mandatory in 2002.

Holy cow! 1995, and long before that?

You have to be kidding me, get a little perspective historically. History didn't start in the 90's, or even the 80's. :rolleyes:

specsaregood
09-23-2012, 09:16 AM
Well let me ask, has it been effective?

Has drug testing students that are inclined to extracurricular school activities been shown to deter them from trying drugs that very well could ruin their life from a young age? I would venture that it has; but it probably has also kept some kids from otherwise trying out extracurricular school activities.

Origanalist
09-23-2012, 09:20 AM
You are correct.

I'd like to mention that I do not believe that a urine sample should be required to play sports or participate in clubs. I am merely pointing out that this is commonplace in public schools (not just in high school) today and started in the US many years ago.

Point taken. :)

Danke
09-23-2012, 09:22 AM
Good, now the jocks will move on to safer activities...like drinking!

tangent4ronpaul
09-23-2012, 09:27 AM
I need to find a another country to move to, and quick. I need a sugar momma, too.

SO rich ladies....if you're out there, I'm available. My wife will get over it(but she has to come, too).

Land a Sugar Mamma:
http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_150/170_dating_advice.html

Sugar Mamma dating sites:
http://www.sugarmommadate.com/
http://www.findasugarmomma.com/
http://mommasdating.com/
http://matchcougars.com/
http://cougarbox.com/

:D

-t

Origanalist
09-23-2012, 09:29 AM
Good, now the jocks will move on to safer activities...like drinking!

Same as it ever was


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=I1wg1DNHbNU

donnay
09-23-2012, 09:46 AM
Not true around here. There is an absolute epidemic of IV heroin use as far down as the middle school. They would NEVER require testing in our district, though because of their "image." Bunch of professionals live in our small community, and it's always had that "holier than though" air to it. They'd rather stick their noses in the ground and pretend their 12 year olds aren't shooting up in school and their daughters aren't giving BJs for drugs in the public school bathrooms.

I'm against the testing, but I understand where it comes from. The problem being that when the kids are caught, they aren't sent to treatment, they're removed from the school and sent to either the military-like "alternate" program or to a detention center.


Heroin you say? Who do you suppose is bringing that into our country?

"It's common knowledge that Afghanistan yields a yearly supply of opium (with a street value of $500,000,000,000). Don't believe the lying propaganda about the U.S. military burning poppy fields, our boys are over there protecting those crops!"

http://www.lovethetruth.com/truth_about_illegal_drugs.htm


If you get a chance read a book by Gary Webb; "Dark Alliance." Then if you get the chance read the book by Terry Reed and John Cummings; "Compromised." Those two books were eye openers for me.

Then we have the issues of Hillbilly heroin (OxyContin) that had been over-prescribed throughout the 90's.

What needs to happen is parents need to take a leadership role and be the ones to educate their children--not the schools! I blame the parents in many of these cases of kids doing these awful drugs because they are ignorant and they think programs like D.A.R.E. will teach their kids not to do drugs when it is having just the opposite effect, IMHO.

tod evans
09-23-2012, 09:54 AM
Let a teenager Jones just once.........They'll either quit dope altogether or go off the deep end.

Either way it isn't the schools or states problem, it's between the kids and their parents.

tangent4ronpaul
09-23-2012, 09:55 AM
I blame the parents in many of these cases of kids doing these awful drugs because they are ignorant and they think programs like D.A.R.E. will teach their kids not to do drugs when it is having just the opposite effect, IMHO.

Everyone I've ever met that's gone through D.A.R.E. said they came out of it wanting to try drugs.

-t

donnay
09-23-2012, 11:01 AM
Back in the 80's when I was in high school, they had cops come around with drug sniffing dogs, sporadically, to check out if the kids were hiding drugs in their lockers. Our homeroom classes were always by our locker, and this particular morning, the cops came patrolling down our halls.

The cops were patrolling and then you can hear them stop because the dog had started barking right outside our room. Our room became extremely quiet, you could hear a pin drop. About 5 minutes later (which seemed like an hour) the principle came over the PA and asked for me, by name, to come down to the office, to my teacher. Of course every eye in the class became affixed on me along with the the "Oooo and You're busted" remarks coming out of some of my classmates mouths.

Panicked, I proceeded down to the office, and walked into the the waiting area and announced to the secretary that the principle wanted to meet with me.

The principle came out and asked me to come into the office. I went into his office where two policemen where standing off to the side. The principle asked me to take a seat and then asked me what I had in my locker? I said, "books and my lunch." He then asked me again, as if he didn't hear what I just told him what I had in my locker. I again said, "books and my lunch." He then said, "what was in the brown bag?" I replied, "MY LUNCH." It was apparent, even for a young naive kid, such as myself, to see where this was heading. He asked me, one more time, about the brown bag, and I told them, "I had a tuna fish sandwich on rye bread, with some chips and a brownie." After an hour of grilling me, I decided to stop talking and told him to call my mother, since she was the one who made my lunch. He did, and my mother confirmed what I had in my brown bag.

The thing of it is, the dog barked at my locker, they opened it and the dog jumped up, grabbed my bag and took off with my lunch and ate part of it before the cop stopped him. Even with my mother confirming what she had packed in that brown bag, he decided that he would grill me some more and let the cops lecture me about drugs. I was furious so where my parents! If I knew then, what I know now, I would have just remained silent and not answered any of their questions and then sued them for harassment. I wasn't even reimbursed for my lunch either.

The drug war is a huge scam. It's all about control and it is all about conditioning the kids to obey authority!

Anti Federalist
09-23-2012, 11:01 AM
No. It really has been like that here for a long time. I'm not kidding and you don't have to believe me if you don't want to. Drug testing in schools is not anything new. This is an example from 1995 but they've been doing it long before that.

History in the US did not begin 17 years ago.

Hell, I remember passing a bong with my bus driver, underway, in my young teens. (He was a real life Otto Mann from the Simpsons).

I'm probably twice your age, and these are just few things that have not "always been".

High schools used to have a smoking area.

So did planes.

Speaking of planes, I'm old enough to remember when you could bring unloaded firearms onboard, in your carry on bags.

Kids used to ride bicycles without those stupid looking helmets.

Cars came without seat belts and the idea of stopping people at a roadblock to check if you were wearing one would be considered outrageous.

Not to mention the fact that you could walk down the street without being under total government surveillance.

I could go on and on like this, but it makes me too sad, to consider how many "little freedoms" have been lost over the years.

Origanalist
09-23-2012, 11:09 AM
Back in the 80's when I was in high school, they had cops come around with drug sniffing dogs, sporadically, to check out if the kids were hiding drugs in their lockers. Our homeroom classes were always by our locker, and this particular morning, the cops came patrolling down our halls.

The cops were patrolling and then you can hear them stop because the dog had started barking right outside our room. Our room became extremely quiet, you could hear a pin drop. About 5 minutes later (which seemed like an hour) the principle came over the PA and asked for me, by name, to come down to the office, to my teacher. Of course every eye in the class became affixed on me along with the the "Oooo and You're busted" remarks coming out of some of my classmates mouths.

Panicked, I proceeded down to the office, and walked into the the waiting area and announced to the secretary that the principle wanted to meet with me.

The principle came out and asked me to come into the office. I went into his office where two policemen where standing off to the side. The principle asked me to take a seat and then asked me what I had in my locker? I said, "books and my lunch." He then asked me again, as if he didn't hear what I just told him what I had in my locker. I again said, "books and my lunch." He then said, "what was in the brown bag?" I replied, "MY LUNCH." It was apparent, even for a young naive kid, such as myself, to see where this was heading. He asked me, one more time, about the brown bag, and I told them, "I had a tuna fish sandwich on rye bread, with some chips and a brownie." After an hour of grilling me, I decided to stop talking and told him to call my mother, since she was the one who made my lunch. He did, and my mother confirmed what I had in my brown bag.

The thing of it is, the dog barked at my locker, they opened it and the dog jumped up, grabbed my bag and took off with my lunch and ate part of it before the cop stopped to him. Even with my mother confirming what she had packed in that brown bag, he decided that he would grill me some more and let the cops lecture me about drugs. I was furious so where my parents! If I knew then, what I know now, I would have just remained silent and not answered any of their questions and then sued them for harassment. I wasn't even reimbursed for my lunch either.

The drug war is a huge scam. It all about control and it is all about conditioning the kids to obey authority!

That story is both laugh out loud funny and infuriating at the same time.

I was in high school in the 70's, the only sniffing I remember is the teachers in 7th grade when I was still in the city sniffing our breath to see if we had been smoking.

coastie
09-23-2012, 11:46 AM
Land a Sugar Mamma:
http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_150/170_dating_advice.html

Sugar Mamma dating sites:
http://www.sugarmommadate.com/
http://www.findasugarmomma.com/
http://mommasdating.com/
http://matchcougars.com/
http://cougarbox.com/

:D

-t


LMFAO....I may just click on a link or two...or three.:cool::D

JK/SEA
09-23-2012, 11:47 AM
i'd be all for drug testing middle school kids as soon as there is a law mandating that ALL law enforcement and elected officials submit to random testing for illicit drugs and alcohol.

MelissaWV
09-23-2012, 12:16 PM
The funny thing about that article is that it justifies drug testing with the fact that professional sports do test for doping, etc.. If that were the only argument, maybe they could have a point as afterschool activities are elective and could loosely be discussed as a contractual issue. Except they aren't. If you get "caught" (false positive or no) by one of these tests, your academics will be null and void. You won't be at school. You will likely get branded and made an example of. It's going to go on your transcript/record in some way, I am sure, which will impact your ability to get into college. Again, this is likely going to happen regardless of whether or not the positive is false or for heroin or for pot or for whatever else the school thinks is a no-no.

That's the argument as it pertains to sports.

Now, I'm not up on my professional scrapbooking leagues, but do they test for drugs?

DGambler
09-23-2012, 12:45 PM
i'd be all for drug testing middle school kids as soon as there is a law mandating that ALL law enforcement and elected officials submit to random testing for illicit drugs and alcohol.

Exactly. Actually, if you are in any position that pays you from the public dole. Congress critters and Senators should be tested weekly.

RockEnds
09-23-2012, 12:50 PM
I dunno. I'm not in favor of drug testing anyone, but if the schools insist upon it, maybe they should start with the faculty. And administration. I almost forgot them. They should definitely require drug testing of themselves before they impose it upon those receiving their services.

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
09-23-2012, 02:10 PM
That's the argument as it pertains to sports.

Now, I'm not up on my professional scrapbooking leagues, but do they test for drugs?


I just always assumed scrapbookers were high as hell. :)

belian78
09-23-2012, 02:24 PM
Everyone I've ever met that's gone through D.A.R.E. said they came out of it wanting to try drugs.

-t
That was my experience too. I came out of D.A.R.E. with a pretty good idea of what I might try, and what I would stay away from all together. Which, for the most part, I've always stuck to. So in some ways it worked for me, just not the way they wanted it to. :p

Anti Federalist
09-23-2012, 02:40 PM
Not true around here. There is an absolute epidemic of IV heroin use as far down as the middle school. They would NEVER require testing in our district, though because of their "image." Bunch of professionals live in our small community, and it's always had that "holier than though" air to it. They'd rather stick their noses in the ground and pretend their 12 year olds aren't shooting up in school and their daughters aren't giving BJs for drugs in the public school bathrooms.

I'm against the testing, but I understand where it comes from. The problem being that when the kids are caught, they aren't sent to treatment, they're removed from the school and sent to either the military-like "alternate" program or to a detention center.

School to Prison.

Reason number #3298 to homeschool.

Anti Federalist
09-24-2012, 01:18 PM
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