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Anti Federalist
09-13-2012, 05:29 PM
Inside 7 yard "hit" rate?

< 24 percent.




Prosecutors: Police won't face criminal charges in Michigan death

By David Ariosto, CNN
updated 8:27 AM EDT, Thu September 13, 2012

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/12/justice/michigan-police-shooting-saginaw/index.html

(CNN) -- Police officers who unleashed a hail of gunfire that killed a homeless Michigan man wielding a knife will not face criminal charges, prosecutors said Wednesday.

Saginaw County Prosecutor Mike Thomas told reporters that investigators had reviewed police reports, several pieces of evidence -- including audio recordings of phone calls made to police -- and interviewed several witnesses at the scene.

"Criminal charges aren't warranted," said Thomas, noting that the officers had not acted with criminal intent on July 1 when they opened fire on Milton Hall.

The 10-week investigation was necessary because "the Saginaw Police Department was not going to investigate itself," he said. Hall's family said that he had a history of mental illness.

The 49-year-old man had been arguing with officers in a parking lot next to a shuttered Chinese restaurant when he was shot multiple times by police, in full view of passing motorists and while he was holding a knife.

Video captures Michigan man's shooting by police

Prosecutors played an audio recording of a call made to police by a woman at a nearby mini mart prior to the shooting in which she complained that he had been rude and aggressive, and had refused to pay for a coffee and other items.

The woman also said Hall had spit on someone inside the store, according to the recording.

A female police officer responded to the call and radioed in for backup when she encountered Hall, who was being aggressive and threatened the officer with a knife, according to Thomas.

Investigators said Hall refused to drop the weapon, despite police orders to relinquish the knife and came within a few feet of the officers.

"He's coming at us every time we exit the vehicle," according to the female officer's voice, which was broadcast to reporters during Wednesday's press conference. "He wants us to shoot him."

"We can't let him get out of this area," the officer added. "He's going to kill somebody."

Thomas said six of the eight police officers opened fire as Hall approached. The officers had been equipped with stun guns, though they "aren't 100% effective," he added.

The officers fired 46 rounds, striking Hall 11 times, according to Thomas.

Investigators also showed video of the incident, captured by a dashboard camera inside a police cruiser at the scene.

The eight officers, as well as a police dog, had formed a semi-circle around Hall, who did not appear to back down during the confrontation, according to the video.

"They didn't shoot him right away at the beginning," said Thomas. "They tried to look for non-lethal options here."

Thomas said "there is a need for greater (police) training," as well as a need for more access to non-lethal weapons.

Hall's cousin, Mike Washington, told CNN in August that Hall had been jailed for minor offenses such as vagrancy in the past, but, "he was not violent."

Hall's mother, who said her son was mentally ill, has plans to speak Monday at a "town hall type meeting" organized by Concerned Citizens of Saginaw at a local church.

Jewel Hall said last month that she and her attorney were conducting a separate investigation. They are requesting access to additional documents as well as the autopsy report.

"I have good days and bad days," she said Wednesday. "Today is not a good day for me."

In a statement released through her attorney, Hall said she was "disappointed in the prosecutor's report finding that the actions of the six Saginaw police officers who so brutally shot and killed my son, Milton Hall, were justified."

"If there is any benefit to come from Milton's tragic death, we would hope that it would be to raise awareness of the challenges confronting the Saginaw Police Department and Saginaw elected officials," she said in the statement. "The challenges are serious, systemic, wide-ranging and deeply rooted."

The shooting occurred in a parking lot on West Genessee Avenue, a busy commercial strip on the north side of Saginaw.

In a video purchased by CNN, shot by a motorist from across the street, Hall is seen arguing with a half-dozen officers. For more than three minutes, he walks back and forth, and at one time appears to crouch in a "karate stance," according to the man who captured the scene.

Multiple shots are heard in the video.

jbauer
09-13-2012, 05:46 PM
46 rounds and only 11 hits. 24% hit rate for a man that was a "threat" because he had a knife. Either he was a lot farther away then they say he was or they've got a shity shot.

tod evans
09-13-2012, 05:50 PM
8 cops..........1 dude with a knife..

No charges?

Just whointhefuck is representing the people?

Dr.3D
09-13-2012, 05:52 PM
8 cops..........1 dude with a knife..

No charges?

Just whointhefuck is representing the people?
The man with the knife?

ghengis86
09-13-2012, 06:03 PM
Any pictures of the knife? And 'more training'?!?! How much fucking training does it take to not murder someone?
And <24% hit rate?

This is full of FUBAR

aGameOfThrones
09-13-2012, 06:05 PM
"We can't let him get out of this area," the officer added. "He's going to kill somebody."

I don't know about that, but the cops got into the area and actually killed someone.

DamianTV
09-13-2012, 06:14 PM
The 1% and those that protect the 1% will be protected by the laws that protect the 1%. Not to be redundant or say the same thing twice twice.

tod evans
09-13-2012, 06:15 PM
The prosecuting attorney is usually an elected position......Why haven't the citizens in that county moved to impeach him?

If there's not enough backing to impeach him then sane people need to pack up their homes and businesses and move.

A prosecutor who truly represents the people would have these cops heads on his wall.


Oh-yeah..........teen idol or whatever TV BS is much more important.....

pcosmar
09-13-2012, 06:27 PM
The prosecuting attorney is usually an elected position......Why haven't the citizens in that county moved to impeach him?

.

Have you met the voters?

:(

EBounding
09-13-2012, 06:43 PM
Inside 7 yard "hit" rate?

< 24 percent.


And they're even better at hitting Golden Retrievers

2/7 shots, 28%.

tod evans
09-13-2012, 06:48 PM
Have you met the voters?

:(

Nope.

I know one way to get them involved though...

Remove all federal funding......

phill4paul
09-13-2012, 06:58 PM
"Criminal charges aren't warranted," said Thomas, noting that the officers had not acted with criminal intent on July 1 when they opened fire on Milton Hall.

Then how about negligence?


Thomas said six of the eight police officers opened fire as Hall approached. The officers had been equipped with stun guns, though they "aren't 100% effective," he added.

Which is why they are only used on incapacitated individuals.

dbill27
09-13-2012, 07:10 PM
They couldn't have just shot him in the leg one time if he was that dangerous. I'm pretty sure that would make me drop a knife pretty quick

phill4paul
09-13-2012, 08:11 PM
They couldn't have just shot him in the leg one time if he was that dangerous. I'm pretty sure that would make me drop a knife pretty quick

I have to say "Stop with the wounding/leg shot/arm shot talk. There is no wild west "shoot the knife from his hand" solution. It ain't gonna happen. Can I hear an "Amen" from other shooters?
However, with a half dozen cops, can't at least three pull the tasers and attempt the less than lethal take down before an abysmal shooting score?

Anti Federalist
09-13-2012, 08:33 PM
I have to say "Stop with the wounding/leg shot/arm shot talk. There is no wild west "shoot the knife from his hand" solution. It ain't gonna happen. Can I hear an "Amen" from other shooters?
However, with a half dozen cops, can't at least three pull the tasers and attempt the less than lethal take down before an abysmal shooting score?

Amen!

If you must shoot, it must be as a last resort and at that point you shoot to stop the attack by aiming at center mass and you shoot until the attack has stopped.

That said, there was no imminent danger to life and limb, the cops were at a safe distance back from a mentally unstable old man with a knife.

Tasers or a thugscrum with all the armor and helmets they like to hut hut about in would have done the job.

Circular Force Continuum.

That, and the fact that they could get some combat quals by surrounding and provoking this poor bastard.

opal
09-13-2012, 08:41 PM
wait a minute.. OLD man? 49 is old?

*covers up cuz her age is gonna show*

Anti Federalist
09-13-2012, 09:00 PM
wait a minute.. OLD man? 49 is old?

*covers up cuz her age is gonna show*

Yah, I should talk, I'm right near there too.

My mistake, I had read, or mis-read, that he was 69.

tod evans
09-21-2012, 08:08 PM
Punished? WTF! Murder in cold blood and they're punished?



Officers in homeless Michigan man's shooting get punished


http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/21/justice/michigan-police-shooting/index.html?hpt=ju_c2

(CNN) -- Three Saginaw, Michigan, police officers involved in the shooting and killing of a homeless man have been punished, a police official said Friday.
The on-site supervisor was demoted to patrolman, said Acting Saginaw Police Chief Brian Lipe.
Two others were "disciplined," he said, for violating department policies in connection with the shooting. Three of their five dash-cam videocameras were not working properly. No other detail was provided on how the officers were disciplined.
The incident occurred July 1. Milton Hall, 49, had been arguing with officers in a parking lot next to a shuttered Chinese restaurant when he was shot multiple times by police, in full view of passing motorists and while he was holding a knife.
A video of the incident was exclusively shown in a report by CNN's Jason Carroll weeks later.
Six of the eight police officers opened fire, Saginaw County Prosecutor Mike Thomas said earlier this month. All six are remaining on the police force.
After a 10-week investigation, police determined that the officers would not face criminal charges because they had not acted with criminal intent when they opened fire, Thomas said.
Police responded to a call from a woman at a nearby mini mart before the shooting. She complained that the Hall was rude and aggressive, and had refused to pay for a coffee and other items. She also said Hall spit on someone inside the store.
Hall threatened a responding female police officer with a knife. Investigators said Hall refused to drop the weapon, despite police orders to relinquish the knife and came within a few feet of the officers.
Thomas said six of the eight police officers opened fire as Hall approached. The officers had been equipped with stun guns, though they "aren't 100% effective," he added. The officers fired 46 rounds, striking Hall 11 times, according to Thomas.
Investigators also showed video of the incident, captured by a dashboard camera inside a police cruiser at the scene.
The eight officers, as well as a police dog, had formed a semi-circle around Hall, who did not appear to back down during the confrontation, according to the video.
"They didn't shoot him right away at the beginning," said Thomas. "They tried to look for non-lethal options here." Thomas said "there is a need for greater (police) training," as well as a need for more access to non-lethal weapons.
Hall's family said that he had a history of mental illness.
Jewel Hall, the victim's mother, has said that she and her attorney were conducting a separate investigation. They are requesting access to additional documents as well as the autopsy report.
In a statement released through her attorney, Hall said she was "disappointed in the prosecutor's report finding that the actions of the six Saginaw police officers who so brutally shot and killed my son, Milton Hall, were justified."
"If there is any benefit to come from Milton's tragic death, we would hope that it would be to raise awareness of the challenges confronting the Saginaw Police Department and Saginaw elected officials," she said in the statement. "The challenges are serious, systemic, wide-ranging and deeply rooted."

acptulsa
09-21-2012, 08:20 PM
No other detail was provided on how the officers were disciplined.

No doubt they flew in Sen. David Vitter's favorite 'escorts' and their little whips.

Indy Vidual
09-22-2012, 02:23 AM
"If there is any benefit to come from Milton's tragic death, we would hope that it would be to raise awareness of the challenges confronting the Saginaw Police Department and Saginaw elected officials," she said in the statement. "The challenges are serious, systemic, wide-ranging and deeply rooted."

Czolgosz
09-22-2012, 04:40 AM
I side with people, before cops. But, IF this guy spit on somebody, IF this guy stole coffee, and IF this guy actually came within a few feet of me, he's gonna get shot.


Cops are guilty till they prove themselves innocent, because of their track record.

thoughtomator
09-22-2012, 05:31 AM
If you don't want cops after you, leave the donut suit at home

truelies
09-22-2012, 07:47 AM
............ But, IF this guy spit on somebody, IF this guy stole coffee, and IF this guy actually came within a few feet of me, he's gonna get shot.


...........................................

in Michigan as a citizen shooter you would be arrested for murder and probably convicted.

acptulsa
09-22-2012, 07:52 AM
in Michigan as a citizen shooter you would be arrested for murder and probably convicted.

Do you say 'probably convicted' because he would stand a chance of getting off, or because he'd stand a chance of dying before they even got the cuffs on him?

phill4paul
03-18-2014, 06:19 AM
Update: $725,000 deal reached over fatal Saginaw police shooting

Saginaw — The family of a homeless man repeatedly shot by police has reached a $725,000 settlement with the city of Saginaw.

Police fired more than 40 shots, striking Milton Hall 11 times and killing him in 2012. Police say they acted after the mentally ill man refused to drop a knife.

Saginaw attorney Bill Reising says a $725,000 deal to end the civil rights lawsuit was reached Friday.

Hall family attorney Cynthia Heenan says police had options before they decided to fire at the 49-year-old Hall. She describes it as a “firing squad.”

The case moved quickly. The settlement comes less than six months after a lawsuit was filed in Bay City federal court.



From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140317/METRO06/303170088#ixzz2wJfKUYXD

aGameOfThrones
03-18-2014, 06:31 AM
At least the cops didn't do anything wrong.

EBounding
10-29-2014, 07:58 AM
Dashcam video obtained from the ACLU (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/graphic-video-released-firing-squad-style-police-killing-mentally-ill-man/#b0PB3oBy5GDzCwLH.99)--it's much more disturbing than the previous video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Iigvm5iPkU

How are there not riots over this?

tod evans
10-29-2014, 08:08 AM
Glad to hear all the kops have been held personally accountable........:mad:

Suzanimal
10-29-2014, 08:21 AM
Dashcam video obtained from the ACLU (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/graphic-video-released-firing-squad-style-police-killing-mentally-ill-man/#b0PB3oBy5GDzCwLH.99)--it's much more disturbing than the previous video.

How are there not riots over this?

No words...:(:mad:

Anti Federalist
10-29-2014, 11:00 AM
How are there not riots over this?

Ferguson boiled over because of long standing and ongoing police harassment, not just one killing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/10/28/new-report-details-the-disastrous-municipal-court-system-in-st-louis-county/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/