Stolen Valor Act Passes 410-3 (Lying about military service)

[presence]

http://www.statesman.com/news/nation/house-votes-to-protect-honor-of-military-medals-2457352.html


The bill states that those who misrepresent their military service with the intent of receiving something of value would be subject to up to one year in prison. Following the lines of the court ruling, it exempts from punishment those who simply wear military medals or decorations that do not belong to them.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/h575
(http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/h575)


3 NAY VOTES:

Ron Paul
Justin Amash
George Miller

Does anyone have a link to Ron's opinion on this act?

[CaptainAmerica]

another stupid arbitrary law

[LatinsforPaul]

Government trying to instill morals again.

Epic FAIL

[presence]

Some interesting points by HR professionals on the subject of "lying on a resume", most of which point toward most instances being simply "unethical" rather than "illegal" or "unlawful"

http://www.linkedin.com/answers/hiring-human-resources/staffing-recruiting/HRH_SFF/299977-14545042

Wouldn't this subject be covered by fraud charges IF SOMETHING WENT WRONG because you were hired on pretences of having military skills but failed to have any clue when lives were in danger?

[RonRules]

I support this.

Here's one reason why:


Stolen Valor: L. Ron Hubbard's Phony Medals
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/StolenValor/lrh-purple-heart.jpg

The Church of Scientology falsely claims that L. Ron Hubbard was a decorated World War II combat veteran who earned a purple heart with palm (equivalent to two purple hearts) and numerous other medals. These bogus claims have been thoroughly debunked by Chris Owen's research, published at Ron the "War Hero".
Yet Scientology continues to lie about L. Ron Hubbard's war record. A recent example is their fraudulent claims made to Mark Sommer of the Buffalo News, reported here. The lies are repeated in this press release.

Scientlogy's claims are easily refuted by obtaining copies of Hubbard's actual service record (pages 1, 2, 2) from the Navy, which several journalists, including Sommer, have done. Yet Scientology continues to peddle its lies, to the outrage of veterans.

The proposed Stolen Valor Act of 2005, sponsored by Colorado Congressman John T. Salazar, may finally put a stop to this fraud.


More here:
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/was-scientology-founder-l-ron-hubbard-a-genuine-war-hero/question-1795313/
http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/4/2/9/0/7/9/fraud-45669974730.jpeg

http://i.imgur.com/QkFjy.jpg

[sailingaway]

I suspect Ron's vote has something to do with :"Congress shall pass no law.... abridging freedom of speech..."

Because Ron learned how to read young, and never forgot how.

Something can be immoral and yet Congress has no authority to regulate it.

[presence]

The Church of Scientology falsely claims that L. Ron Hubbard was a decorated World War II combat veteran

You talk about lies and outrage... but where is the victim? Who's liberty has been taken from them?

What L Ron has done (as you presented) is surely unethical and disgraceful. But is it CRIME? Crime, as in, the state puts you in a concrete box by force of gun because you have injured or stolen from another party?

"its for the troops" is an excuse up there with "its for the children"

presence

[matt0611]

Didn't some court say something like this was unconstitutional? I could have sworn?

This should definitely not be a crime, this is BS.

Its immoral but no crime. Glad Ron Paul and Amash voted nay.

[presence]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud


In the United States, common law recognizes nine elements constituting fraud:[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud#cite_note-5)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud#cite_note-6)



a representation of an existing fact;
its materiality;
its falsity;
the speaker's knowledge of its falsity;
the speaker's intent that it shall be acted upon by the plaintiff;
the plaintiff's ignorance of its falsity;
the plaintiff's reliance on the truth of the representation;
the plaintiff's right to rely upon it; and
consequent damages suffered by the plaintiff.

To establish a claim of fraud, most jurisdictions in the United States require that each element be pled with particularity and be proved with clear, cogent, and convincing evidence (very probable evidence). The measure of damages in fraud cases is computed using the "benefit of bargain" rule, which is the difference between the value of the property had it been as represented and its actual value. Special damages may be allowed if shown proximately caused by defendant's fraud and the damage amounts are proved with specificity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_specificity).



So if there are damages due to someone because they misrepresented their military service, then so be it. But to make it a crime to lie kind of oversteps legal bounds. Though I could see it being a crime if you made your false claim of military service on a signed and dated "legal document".

[presence]

Didn't some court say something like this was unconstitutional? I could have sworn?

This should definitely not be a crime, this is BS.

Its immoral but no crime. Glad Ron Paul and Amash voted nay.

The first version was ruled unconstitutional.

" Following the lines of the court ruling, it exempts from punishment those who simply wear military medals or decorations that do not belong to them. "

[BamaAla]

Didn't some court say something like this was unconstitutional? I could have sworn?

This should definitely not be a crime, this is BS.

Its immoral but no crime. Glad Ron Paul and Amash voted nay.

The Supreme Court ruled that the original law was unconstitutional, but this new bill is specific to those lying with the intent to get money or benefits (basically fraud.) The first law criminalized lying; this one criminalizes lying with the intent to defraud.

[VBRonPaulFan]

so basically the only people who didn't vote for it, were the couple of guys who don't bend over backwards for the military-industrial complex. freakin' sad.

we have our work cut out for us.

[sailingaway]

The Supreme Court ruled that the original law was unconstitutional, but this new bill is specific to those lying with the intent to get money or benefits (basically fraud.) The first law criminalized lying; this one criminalizes lying with the intent to defraud.

Still a state crime not a federal one. But when was the last time a law was stricken under the 9th and 10th? 1990s or something? Or did Harris do that with a gun law?

[presence]

The Supreme Court ruled that the original law was unconstitutional, but this new bill is specific to those lying with the intent to get money or benefits (basically fraud.) The first law criminalized lying; this one criminalizes lying with the intent to defraud.

But isn't fraud already a crime and common law offence? Why did we need a new law about "lying about military service" when lying about anything to get money or benefits is already illegal?

[Kilrain]

I wonder how many of the 410 who voted in favor of this have lied about their past military service in order to get elected...

[BamaAla]

Still a state crime not a federal one. But when was the last time a law was stricken under the 9th and 10th? 1990s or something? Or did Harris do that with a gun law?

It was pretty recent if memory serves me.


But isn't fraud already a crime and common law offence? Why did we need a new law about "lying about military service" when lying about anything to get money or benefits is already illegal?

I'm not defending it; I'm just answering the guy's question. If I'm not mistaken though, I think most cases here would fit the bill for civil offenses; this new law criminalizes them.

[nobody's_hero]

I support this.

Here's one reason why:


Stolen Valor: L. Ron Hubbard's Phony Medals
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/StolenValor/lrh-purple-heart.jpg

The Church of Scientology falsely claims that L. Ron Hubbard was a decorated World War II combat veteran who earned a purple heart with palm (equivalent to two purple hearts) and numerous other medals. These bogus claims have been thoroughly debunked by Chris Owen's research, published at Ron the "War Hero".

That's what people get for listening to scientology, lol. We didn't need another law. People just need to stop believing everything they hear.

[TonySutton]

Stupid law, fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual. Stolen valor is fraud.

What is next Stolen Pigskin. A special law to make it illegal to lie about past grid iron heroics for personal gain.

blah blah blah

[acptulsa]

But isn't fraud already a crime and common law offence? Why did we need a new law about "lying about military service" when lying about anything to get money or benefits is already illegal?

One: It allows those who voted for it to go home at election time and say, 'Hey veterans! I pandered to you! It was a useless bunch of code added to an already unreadable mass of federal law and accomplishes nothing, but by voting for it I kissed your asses! Now vote for me!

Two: It's just another example of how doing it to your fellow Americans might get you a few years, but doing it to government will get you twenty to life.

Three: The more laws the more tyranny, and the more tyranny for us the more power for them.

[presence]

'Hey veterans! I pandered to you! It was a useless bunch of code added to an already unreadable mass of federal law and accomplishes nothing, but by voting for it I kissed your asses! Now vote for me!


this ^^^

[jkr]

does this apply to dhs & tsa???

[acptulsa]

does this apply to dhs & tsa???

No. They're allowed to continue to tell us of all the myriad mythical 'terrist' plots from which they've allegedly saved us.

[AGRP]

3/410 congressmen believe in the 1st amendment. What a sad country.

[Occam's Banana]

While they were at it, they should also have passed a law criminalizing "the big fish that got away" stories.

I submit that these are just as rampant, pervasive & injurious to the common good and the moral fabric of Our Great Nation.

[Root]

I learned something good reading this thread. Thanks. So I'm guessing this is expected to clear the house? Such a failure on so many different levels What do we know about George Miller?

[oyarde]

While they were at it, they should also have passed a law criminalizing "the big fish that got away" stories.

I submit that these are just as rampant, pervasive & injurious to the common good and the moral fabric of Our Great Nation. All of my fish stories are true , best to take someone fishing with you , witness that way :)

[Occam's Banana]

All of my fish stories are true , best to take someone fishing with you , witness that way :)

That's the way to do it! Have a witness who can take pics or a 'tube - otherwise yer ass is goin' to jail! ;):D

[presence]

What do we know about George Miller?

California Liberal

Voting Record:
http://www.ontheissues.org/CA/George_Miller.htm

Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Miller_(California_politician)

http://heidacomputers.com/wordpress/rtamerican/?p=1095

His philosophy appears to be tax and spend your way out of debt.
[]
member of the Progressive Caucus

[AFPVet]

I agree... it should be a civil offense rather than criminal because it does not violate common law.

[James Madison]

Anyone remember this gem?

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6669/ricksantorumarmedservic.jpg

[UMULAS]

1_ RPF members complain about tax breaks and wants to lower taxes.

2_ Valor act stops fraud from taxes, breaks, discounts and other benefits.

3_ RPF members scream the first amendment in high pitch.


Really guys, understand how this is not censorship, this is people who are ripping off benefits with this....

[Carson]

I was a veteran of the Vietnam war. Some of us had to stay behind to care for the women and children while the others went gallivanting around.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Another Draft dodging jingoism career politician... one more term and he'll have served 40 consecutive years in Congress. Marxist Libtards keep voting the same people over and over...

George Miller (California politician)
Early life, education, and early career

The son of liberal State Senator and Democratic Party leader George Miller, Jr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Miller,_Jr.), he was born in Richmond, California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond,_California) in 1945. He was graduated from Diablo Valley Community College (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_Valley_Community_College) and San Francisco State University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_State_University).

After his father died in 1969, Miller ran in a March 1969 special election to succeed him as state senator for California's 7th State Senate district (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California%27s_7th_State_Senate_district), but Republican John Nejedly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nejedly) defeated him 57% to 42%.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Miller_%28California_politician%29#cite_not e-0)
He then attended the University of California, Davis School of Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_California,_Davis_School_of_Law) (King Hall), where he received his Juris Doctor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juris_Doctor). After admission to the university, served as legislative assistant to California Senate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Senate) majority leader George Moscone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Moscone) before entering the U.S. House of Representatives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._House_of_Representatives) in 1974.