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John F Kennedy III
09-13-2012, 01:28 PM
New Attack on 2nd Amendment: Obama Says Substance Abusers Cannot Own Firearms


Susanne Posel
September 13, 2012

The Obama Administration through the Justice Department has given the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) the authority to “seize and administratively forfeit property involved in controlled-substance abuses.” In effect: those who are convicted of crimes involving alcohol and/or substance abusers will have their right to bear arms revoked.


By misuse of the civil-forfeiture doctrine, constitutional rights can be circumvented while the owner of the property will have it taken without recourse.

In 2010, the Department of Justice published that document entitled, “Investigating Terrorism and Criminal Extremism” wherein the definition of “constitutionalist” is reworked to reflect a “generic term for members of the ‘patriot’ movement. It is now often used to refer to members of the sovereign citizen or common law court movement. Sometimes the word ‘constitutionalist’ is also used.”

This document attempts to down play the term New World Order by explaining it as a term “used by conspiracy theorists to refer to a global conspiracy designed to implement worldwide socialism.” This ideal is “targeted by right-wing extremists” as bad yet those types are afraid that “Jewish people ultimately [will] control the world.”

The FBI surmises that “Sovereign citizens are anti-government extremists who believe that even though they physically reside in this country, they are separate or ‘sovereign’ from the United States. As a result, they believe they don’t have to answer to any government authority, including courts, taxing entities, motor vehicle departments, or law enforcement” and that these citizens are a domestic terror threat.

Last month, Brian Loftus, member of Oathkeepers, was unduly harassed for purchasing “a few boxes of ammunition.”

Former US Marine Brandon Raub was indefinitely detained in a VA psychiatric hospital for speaking out against the US government on Facebook.

Raub’s attorney, John Whitehead of the Rutherford Institute, has stated that he is receiving correspondence from people across America that report that US veterans are being detained in psychiatric hospitals for speaking out against the US government.

Because of the Department of Homeland Security report entitled Rightwing Extremism, the US government is coming after US veterans; decrying them as domestic terrorists, extremists and white supremacists.

In July of this year, Obama vowed to “curb violence in American cities, including reasonable restrictions on gun ownership.”


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XGSp6Hd7vM&feature=player_embedded


As a Senator, Obama supported and pushed for anti-gun legislation. He admonished Congress back then as being “slow to act” on the issues he felt were an imperative.

During the Fast and Furious scandal it was revealed that the ATF was exposed in emails to have been part of the covert operation that was designed to justify a new gun regulation called “Demand Letter 3” that would require gun shops and owners to report sales of multiple gun sales to individuals.

In the speech to the National Urban League, Obama eluded to the US government defining and declaring who is mentally stable enough to have the right to gun ownership.

Psychiatric doctors have seen money in the words of Obama and are rallying to claim that supporting the 2nd Amendment is tantamount to having a mental disorder.

Some psychiatrists are asserting that there needs to be a national healthcare approach to the issue of allowing the 2nd Amendment to stand.

Propaganda studies into gun ownership claim that alcohol abuse causes the likelihood of gun-related violence to rise, according to Dr. Garen Wintemute, professor of emergency medicine at the Prevention Research Program.

Banning assault weapons would control the amount of rounds a person could shoot, while the police officers would still be allowed to tout automatic pistols. By restricting gun sales to include minor misdemeanors as well as convicted felons, 40% of gun sales would be curbed. And with the classification of gun support as a mental disorder, more control could be placed on who ultimately can own a gun.


original article here:
http://occupycorporatism.com/new-attack-on-2nd-amendment-obama-says-substance-abusers-cannot-own-firearms/

Pericles
09-13-2012, 02:11 PM
The ATF is going to seize all of its own property for giving guns to drug cartels?

cjm
09-13-2012, 07:59 PM
The Obama Administration through the Justice Department has given the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) the authority to “seize and administratively forfeit property involved in controlled-substance abuses.” In effect: those who are convicted of crimes involving alcohol and/or substance abusers will have their right to bear arms revoked.


Today the litmus test is conviction, tomorrow it'll be suspicious activity. So if you have buddies that come over periodically to play darts or cards, use cash to buy the beer since credit card records might show that you are "abusing" alcohol by purchasing more than your AMA approved two-drink-a-day maximum.

Kylie
09-13-2012, 09:32 PM
The ATF is going to seize all of its own property for giving guns to drug cartels?


+rep.

Irony in full effect.

Anti Federalist
09-13-2012, 09:51 PM
Today the litmus test is conviction, tomorrow it'll be suspicious activity. So if you have buddies that come over periodically to play darts or cards, use cash to buy the beer since credit card records might show that you are "abusing" alcohol by purchasing more than your AMA approved two-drink-a-day maximum.

This man understands how the coming matrix will work.

Your "smart phone" linked to the grid and tracking your every move will provide your location for law enforcement to come by and scoop you up.

Joy.

phill4paul
09-13-2012, 09:58 PM
This man understands how the coming matrix will work.

Your "smart phone" linked to the grid and tracking your every move will provide your location for law enforcement to come by and scoop you up.

Joy.

It does what it is meant to do. Makes us question or friends. Online, work or neighbour. If everyone is violating 3 laws a day then everyone is guilty. Is your family enough to make you narc? For many it is. Even those you feel hold you close what is their immediate familial loyalty? That's what it is about. This is the reason for a police state. To disconnect people for those that most share common beliefs. It is the purpose of a police state to divide.

Root
09-14-2012, 06:44 AM
I posted this in hot topics a few days ago. There is a link to the actual AG order in this thread and is worth a read.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?389605-The-ATF-gets-civil-forfeiture-powers-for-drug-suspects

fisharmor
09-14-2012, 07:09 AM
It does what it is meant to do. Makes us question or friends. Online, work or neighbour. If everyone is violating 3 laws a day then everyone is guilty. Is your family enough to make you narc? For many it is. Even those you feel hold you close what is their immediate familial loyalty? That's what it is about. This is the reason for a police state. To disconnect people for those that most share common beliefs. It is the purpose of a police state to divide.

It doesn't work for everyone.
I was talking to a friend yesterday (who is marginally libertarian) about my new neighbor, who is going to be running a daycare out of his house.
"Interesting, are you zoned for that?" he asked.
"Why would I give a fuck?" I respond. "I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to have acetylene in my garage, either. If he doesn't ask any questions, I'm not going to ask any questions."
I got through to him with that. If we press our friends and neighbors to defend their noseybody attitudes, I think we'll help them realize they shouldn't be ratting everyone out, and as a bonus, inject the idea that the state doesn't know what's good for us, after all.


But back OT, read through ATF form 4473
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

The ATF already stops transfers if you're a convicted felon, under indictment for a felony, an unlawful user of controlled substances, adjudicated mentally defective, dishonorably discharged, under court order because of stalking, convicted of a domestic violence misdemeanor, a renounced citizen, or here illegally (sic).

It seems like the only thing Obummer is pushing is the idea of going to your house and taking your existing arms once one of these already existing constitutional breaches of the 2nd Amendment happens.

aGameOfThrones
09-14-2012, 07:36 AM
If we press our friends and neighbors to defend their noseybody attitudes, I think we'll help them realize they shouldn't be ratting everyone out, and as a bonus, inject the idea that the state doesn't know what's good for us, after all.

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2012/09/tumblr_m4ex26gh6A1qb5gkjo2_250.gif

Bruno
09-14-2012, 07:58 AM
Does this mean Obama gets his nukes taken away?

seyferjm
09-14-2012, 08:08 AM
Goverment logic: If you smoke pot, you cannot own a weapon. However, if you are in a militant gang that sells the drugs, we will hand deliver the weapons to you!

Voluntary Man
09-14-2012, 08:12 AM
is nicotine a substance? so armies count?

Icymudpuppy
09-14-2012, 08:22 AM
The ATF is going to seize all of its own property for giving guns to drug cartels?

If Only.

fisharmor
09-14-2012, 08:25 AM
is nicotine a substance? so armies count?

Good point: technically nicotine is a controlled substance.
Even if you grew your own plants, dried it yourself, and rolled your own cigars, you could be guilty of tax evasion under Wickard v. Filburn logic.

DamianTV
09-14-2012, 10:06 AM
It wont be long until guns are banned, period. They just continue to find more and more excuses as to why someone shouldnt be allowed to own a gun. Are you Fat? You cant own a gun. Did you get a C- in Math in the 4th Grade? You cant own a gun. Do you have a family? You cant own a gun. Why? They dont want you shooting "Them", thats why!

---

Edit: For the Record, is a Statin a Controlled Substance? How about Ritalin? Cholestorol Meds? HALF of the people in this country are on some form of medication. Should that be used as a reason to disqualify someone from owning a gun?

Occam's Banana
09-14-2012, 11:31 AM
Today the litmus test is conviction, tomorrow it'll be suspicious activity.

What is more, I'll bet that the owning of firearms (or the mere desire to do so) will - all by itself - fall under the rubric of "suspicious activity."

cjm
09-14-2012, 12:13 PM
But back OT, read through ATF form 4473
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf


Certain violations of the Gun Control Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 921 et. seq., are punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment and/or up to a $250,000 fine.

Wow, this is right up there with copyright violations. Serious stuff.

alucard13mmfmj
09-14-2012, 01:36 PM
If obama wasn't using this as another way to slowly take away the 2nd amendment from everyone else AND if he wasn't running drug/gun runs for the mexican cartel.. i'd somewhat agree.

It'd be like giving alcoholics a gun. Probably won't be pretty.

cjm
09-14-2012, 01:58 PM
It'd be like giving alcoholics a gun. Probably won't be pretty.

Many alcoholics don't drink and are very responsible gun owners.