Our 'A-ha' moment.

[Romulus]

Tom Woods, Jesse Benton, Doug Wead.

Which one of these is not like the other????

We pride ourselves on being 'awake'. Well, time to wake up folks. The establishment co-opted the campaign and our movement. I had an urge from the time that Ron Paul was not attacking Romney. Spin the info to suit yourself, but we must face facts. I coded my support to the campaign and the same code comes back in the form of Mitt Romney asking for $ now in my mailbox, and NO this is not because I'm an R voter. We have been sold out by a traitor and I doubt Benton was the only one. Sad day indeed. :mad:

A Liberty movement will never succeed within the R party. You cant join the mob and turn it into a charity.

[CaptUSA]

Tom Woods, Jesse Benton, Doug Wead.

Which one of these is not like the other????

We pride ourselves on being 'awake'. Well, time to wake up folks. The establishment co-opted the campaign and our movement. I had an urge from the time that Ron Paul was not attacking Romney. Spin the info to suit yourself, but we must face facts. I coded my support to the campaign and the same code comes back in the form of Mitt Romney asking for $ now in my mailbox, and NO this is not because I'm an R voter. We have been sold out by a traitor and I doubt Benton was the only one. Sad day indeed. :mad:

A Liberty movement will never succeed within the R party. You cant join the mob and turn it into a charity.Relax, take a deep breath, and post when you regain your composure. Things are not as black and white as this.

[donnay]

+rep

I totally agree. It is the mindset that people believe that we can work within a corrupted party. It's not going to happen. I am mad that my name was sold to reach out and ask me to dig deep into my pocket to contribute to the corruption! NO WAY!

[Romulus]

Relax, take a deep breath, and post when you regain your composure. Things are not as black and white as this.

I'm relaxed. I'm just calling it as I see it. I have seen what has been going down the whole way. I denied for awhile, but when evidence mounts I'm choosing not to be in denial anymore.

[AGRP]

A Liberty movement will never succeed within the R party. You cant join the mob and turn it into a charity.

Do you seriously expect the same thing not to happen if you jump to another party/s? There are two main options. You either get involved or you dont. You either believe your savior is corruptible men (who have been that way since the beginning of time) to rule over you or you can walk away from the system all together and educate people about what liberty really is.

[CaptUSA]

I'm relaxed. I'm just calling it as I see it. I have seen what has been going down the whole way. I denied for awhile, but when evidence mounts I'm choosing not to be in denial anymore.I just don't want this movement to succumb to the same ills as the Libertarian party. You know, in-fighting over strategy, charges of traitors in our ranks, like-minded individuals becoming divided into separate factions that despise each other, and ultimately total ineffectiveness.

Our real enemies are those that work to take our liberties away. I understand the argument that Benton just went to work for one of those people, but I haven't seen Jesse call for restrictions on my liberties. I like to allow each person to follow his own path as long as they keep working. Until he starts calling for my liberties to be infringed upon, I wish him well in his efforts. Even if I don't think he will find much fruit.

[Romulus]

Do you seriously expect the same thing not to happen if you jump to another party/s? There are two main options. You either get involved or you dont. You either believe your savior is corruptible men (who have been that way since the beginning of time) to rule over you or you can walk away from the system all together.

That is sounding better every day... it would not exist without us.

I don't have all the answers or the secret to success. I do know the secret to failure is placating the R party and being a tool in their system.

[Romulus]

I just don't want this movement to succumb to the same ills as the Libertarian party. You know, in-fighting over strategy, charges of traitors in our ranks, like-minded individuals becoming divided into separate factions that despise each other, and ultimately total ineffectiveness.

Our real enemies are those that work to take our liberties away. I understand the argument that Benton just went to work for one of those people, but I haven't seen Jesse call for restrictions on my liberties. I like to allow each person to follow his own path as long as they keep working. Until he starts calling for my liberties to be infringed upon, I wish him well in his efforts. Even if I don't think he will find much fruit.

That to me is the R establishment, Benton, Tate and anyone else who effectively isolated, misguided and neutralized any power we had and funneled that back into the system to make it stronger.

I'm tired of the negativity toward the L party.. I know it's faluts but there are other means toward liberty... we can do this in many forms, not just by focusing on playing in their game.

Look at the free state project and other things. That is where our resources should go. Not to these Kurt Bills who take our money then use our heads as a ladder to endorse Romney.

[AGRP]

That is sounding better every day... it would not exist without us.

I don't have all the answers or the secret to success. I do know the secret to failure is placating the R party and being a tool in their system.

...and educate people about what liberty really is. I added that because I assume you want to be involved in some way. Either that or drop out completely for yourself and become apathetic. Educators can advance liberty much more than politicians. For example, look at the issue of marijuana. Did politicians change the general publics opinion about it? Nope. They fought and are still fighting against it.

[Feeding the Abscess]

That is sounding better every day... it would not exist without us.

I don't have all the answers or the secret to success. I do know the secret to failure is placating the R party and being a tool in their system.

Yep. The official movement is replaying the Goldwater movement.

[Romulus]

...and educate people about what liberty really is. I added that because I assume you want to be involved in some way. Either that or drop out completely for yourself and become apathetic. Educators can advance liberty much more than politicians. For example, look at the issue of marijuana. Did politicians change the general publics opinion about it? Nope. They fought and are still fighting against it.

This.


Yep. The official movement is replaying the Goldwater movement.

Lucy always pulls the ball away from Charlie when he tries to kick it. No matter how much she promises.

[CaptUSA]

there are other means toward liberty... we can do this in many forms, not just by focusing on playing in their game.

Exactly what I am saying! If you don't want to focus on playing in their game, don't. But you shouldn't hate and despise those that do. They believe they have a different way of achieving the same goals. Do what you think works best. Put your resources where you think they should go. This is how a free market works.

I'm just asking people to rid themselves of this "you're either with me or against me" attitude in our approach to restoring our liberty. Now, if they begin to infringe upon your liberties, that's another story entirely.

[specsaregood]

I'm more encouraged than ever!

[Romulus]

Exactly what I am saying! If you don't want to focus on playing in their game, don't. But you shouldn't hate and despise those that do. They believe they have a different way of achieving the same goals. Do what you think works best. Put your resources where you think they should go. This is how a free market works.

I'm just asking people to rid themselves of this "you're either with me or against me" attitude in our approach to restoring our liberty. Now, if they begin to infringe upon your liberties, that's another story entirely.

I don't. Just stating my opinion. We should not be Charlie Brown listening to Lucy.


http://blog.themistrading.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/lucy.jpg

[Feeding the Abscess]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehh77k0rgPs&feature=player_embedded

51:50 mark:

"education is the most important thing; changing people's minds is much more important than being a politician. People your age come up to me all the time and ask me 'how do I become a congressman?' and I tell them don't even think about it ... the most important thing is understanding the principles of free markets, individual liberty, a non-interventionist foreign policy, and monetary policy"

[cajuncocoa]

Tell you what: those of you who want to continue to work with GOP operatives, go ahead (just don't say we didn't warn you when the expected result happens).

Those of us who do not will go our own way.

Going our own way means many things, none of them necessarily synonymous with quitting. We will undoubtedly continue to support, donate to, canvass for, and vote for, liberty candidates you bring to us... whether in or out of the GOP.

Just know that we on the outside will hold YOU on the inside accountable, just as we hold any other candidates accountable. For starters, do not for one minute attempt to convince us that endorsing or otherwise supporting neoconservative candidates will win you favor with those of us who abhor them.

[specsaregood]

Just know that we on the outside will hold YOU on the inside accountable, just as we hold any other candidates accountable.

I for one cant wait to win as a liberty candidate, then screw you all over once I'm in office.

[cajuncocoa]

I for one cant wait to win as a liberty candidate, then screw you all over once I'm in office.Wow...that right there is telling all by itself. What kind of "liberty candidate" speaks like that?

Let me know when you'll be a liberty candidate, will ya? All I'm seeing from you is GOP talking points so far.

[donnay]

I for one cant wait to win as a liberty candidate, then screw you all over once I'm in office.


You're running?

[specsaregood]

Let me know when you'll be a liberty candidate, will ya?
Well that would defeat the purpose all together.

[AGRP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehh77k0rgPs&feature=player_embedded

51:50 mark:

"education is the most important thing; changing people's minds is much more important than being a politician. People your age come up to me all the time and ask me 'how do I become a congressman?' and I tell them don't even think about it ... the most important thing is understanding the principles of free markets, individual liberty, a non-interventionist foreign policy, and monetary policy"

Which is how some people in the Ron Paul/liberty campaign can live with themselves. They know its all about education and the grass roots. Remember: The only reason why they are there is because of us. They believe its our own fault for giving money to their campaigns/conventions/etc. (which is true). Spending $500 to talk to Demint/the cost of admission to a convention/candidate donations/etc would be much better spent purchasing a banner or fliers to educate people in your own community. You might even plant some seeds of morality within your local police department while youre at it.

[cajuncocoa]

Well that would defeat the purpose all together.Oh, I'm sure it would.

[NoOneButPaul]

Relax, take a deep breath, and post when you regain your composure. Things are not as black and white as this.

I thought that 21min video with Doug after the RNC was a really great look into how complicated this stuff is.

Clearly Benton was not a friend of the cause (at least in my mind) but certainly none of this was so cut and dry.

[Romulus]

I thought that 21min video with Doug after the RNC was a really great look into how complicated this stuff is.

Clearly Benton was not a friend of the cause (at least in my mind) but certainly none of this was so cut and dry.

It's pretty cut and dry to me. The guy is a snake and he has friends. Ron, along with all of us got suckered.

Tom Woods, Wead, Kokesh, Ron Paul, all aren't licking the GOP boots. I just Ron would have gone after Romney against the "campaigns" wishes.

[alucard13mmfmj]

Yep. The suspicion was at the height when Ron never aggressively went after the front runner, but went after Santorum instead. Bad move on both parts.

Santorum was needed to ensure brokered convention and attacking Santorum may have cut off a few votes that mattered.

Attacking Romney would force Romney to attack Ron Paul (which some sources say would happen) with millions of dollars in ads. Romney attacking Ron Paul would make Ron Paul a serious candidate post Iowa/NH. What the hell can Romney attack Ron Paul on? Newsletter? Mining stocks? Skeletons that his other family members have? Romney attacking with ads would be free advertisement for us.

I even messaged douggie back then on facebook =(.

Ah well. We can sit here with should have or would have or should have known.

[alucard13mmfmj]

double post for some reason. oopsie.

[NewRightLibertarian]

The reason why working within the Republican Party is such a good idea is that the party is a national disgrace and it is collapsing so we stand to make immense gains just by being around. Otherwise, I agree with the sentiments of the OP

[Romulus]

^^ yes that was my first *sign* that something was up and the campaign was not serious. I'm blaming Ron too... he made the choice as well. But all along we sort of knew he was about 'education'.. it was only the 'campaign' that said it was 'serious'.

When we began winning states John Tate fires off email saying we will never win.

Fucking assholes.

[Romulus]

The reason why working within the Republican Party is such a good idea is that the party is a national disgrace and it is collapsing so we stand to make immense gains just by being around. Otherwise, I agree with the sentiments of the OP

Negative... it will not collapse as long as they pretend liberty can live there.

I say get out of a burning building and go elsewhere. Only then will I enjoy their desperation and failure.

[Elwar]

Tom Woods, Jesse Benton, Doug Wead.

Which one of these is not like the other????


Tom Woods.

[NewRightLibertarian]

Negative... it will not collapse as long as they pretend liberty can live there.

I say get out of a burning building and go elsewhere. Only then will I enjoy their desperation and failure.

It is collapsing, and the average conservative activists are siding with us over the establishment. What this means is that there is a coalition to be formed. What do you think Ron Paul was doing working with people like Barney Frank on eliminating foreign wars and the war on drugs?

[Romulus]

It is collapsing, and the average conservative activists are siding with us over the establishment. What this means is that there is a coalition to be formed. What do you think Ron Paul was doing working with people like Barney Frank on eliminating foreign wars and the war on drugs?

I will correct myself, the GOP is too big to fail, it will be held up by our govt and party bosses. We can choose to be accomplices or we can walk away from a system that openly used then rejected us.

[NewRightLibertarian]

I will correct myself, the GOP is too big to fail, it will be held up by our govt and party bosses. We can choose to be accomplices or we can walk away from a system that openly used then rejected us.

As long as you don't support mainstream Republicans and Democrats, you are apart of the solution as far as I'm concerned. I'm just saying where I'm from we got a state and county NDAA nullification up along with a big Ron Paul supporter as likely the new Congressman. This type of success was unimaginable just 6 months ago, and it all came from working within the GOP and being in the right place at the right time. It would be a big waste of an opportunity not to work with the GOP for things like nullification and sound money.

[Todd]

Maybe this is naive, but since he's married to Paul's grand daughter, I'm having trouble believing he set out to try to sabotage the entire campaign.

Sounds more like he was just the wrong person for the job, was not of the mindset or understanding of one of true liberty principles, and pretty much sucked at running a campaign. Now that it's over could it be possible he is being an opportunist? As disgusting as this is and as much as I dislike how he ran this whole thing, there are just some people who get it and some who don't.

He clearly doesn't get it. Few do. That's why Paul is a rarity and so special and guys like him, and Tom Woods, come along so rarely.

[RabbitMan]

Whenever I get a chance to talk politics at the taproom I'm at, I do. It's astonishing the misconceptions people have, and I feel the Republican Party is ripe for a take-over, ESPECIALLY in places Rand called out the other day on the Sunday panel. The National GOP has very little in common with the mass majority of voters here in Western Washington, and I find that almost everyone I speak to knows something is wrong with the system, they just don't know the answer. But they DO know rich-tax-break, pro-war Republicans are definitely not their messiah. Heck, they are a laughing stock!

People are thirsty for someone, ANYONE pro-civil liberty and anti-war....something like a Ron Paul-lite without the contrived racial garbage. It's up to us in the West and Northeast to change these State parties, because there is very little holding them up as it is.