Did Ron Paul show up at PaulFest?

[orenbus]

I heard from someone that he ended up showing up at PaulFest, but hadn't heard that from anyone else. Can anyone confirm? Thanks.

[RDM]

No, I was there all 3 days.

[sailingaway]

I heard he did as well, or, I should say I read it in a blog of someone who was there. Huh.

[orenbus]

Wow I just found this video, I wonder if that is true that Schiff was being a jerk prior to showing Benton's text message and that was the context leading up to it. Deb or anyone that was there or knows, if you read this, any comment on what was being said at the beginning of the video by the people in the kitchen? Thanks.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23NbCutjBGg

[MelissaCato]

wow I'm surprised Peter Schiff would say that about the person video taping in public. I would have never believed it until I heard him say it even siting Florida law. So now what Peter, you think everyone who video tapes in public is the "fringe" like those Benton mentioned ? Unbelievable.

You know I supported you for your Senate campaign and I've sent your dad a Christmas card in jail for 4 years in a row .. and now I think your an arse. Your ego is worse than A Jones. Asking $100.00 for a cab among people who scrape to get by, carpool and walked there and back. That's pretty low Peter .. you can bet a shiny penny if I would have heard you say you needed money for a cab from one of us, I would have said get a job and YouTubed it myself. I picked frikkin' green beans to get to Florida !!

Pssssst!

[orenbus]

wow I'm surprised Peter Schiff would say that about the person video taping in public. I would have never believed it until I heard him say it even siting Florida law. So now what Peter, you think everyone who video tapes in public is the "fringe" like those Benton mentioned ? Unbelievable.

Yea when I heard him say that I literally did this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gWQaU40PH24/TSOSVuF5fvI/AAAAAAAAKBo/FzxUm6ozKNo/s1600/facepalm111.jpg

[notsure]

wow I'm surprised Peter Schiff would say that about the person video taping in public. I would have never believed it until I heard him say it even siting Florida law. So now what Peter, you think everyone who video tapes in public is the "fringe" like those Benton mentioned ? Unbelievable.

You know I supported you for your Senate campaign and I've sent your dad a Christmas card in jail for 4 years in a row .. and now I think your an arse. Your ego is worse than A Jones. Asking $100.00 for a cab among people who scrape to get by, carpool and walked there and back. That's pretty low Peter .. you can bet a shiny penny if I would have heard you say you needed money for a cab from one of us, I would have said get a job and YouTubed it myself. I picked frikkin' green beans to get to Florida !!

Pssssst!

Although, Peter was an invited guest to PaulFest. PaulFest organizers, including Liberty Unleashed Inc. and Liberty Unleashed PAC, were also the beneficiary of any PaulFest profits. The people behind PaulFest have been looking for everybody to blame for PaulFest's failure besides their own selves.

[orenbus]

Although, Peter was an invited guest to PaulFest. PaulFest organizers, including Liberty Unleashed Inc. and Liberty Unleashed PAC, were also the beneficiary of any PaulFest profits. The people behind PaulFest have been looking for everybody to blame for PaulFest's failure besides their own selves.

What does any of that have anything to do with what Melissa was saying about Schiff talking about how video taping in public is illegal, when in fact the law states that conversations made in public can be recorded when in engaged in public places where they might reasonably be overheard such as seen in the video?

[notsure]

What does that have anything to do with what Melissa was saying about Schiff talking about how video taping in public is illegal when in fact there is a provision in the law that allows for communications made in public to be recorded when in engaged in public places where they might reasonably be overheard such as was seen in the video?

I dont think there is any legal problem, just a morale problem. Quite a few people behind Paulfest have been talking bad about the campaign, and looking for all types of people to blame for PaulFests failure. Have you heard that they even want the Campaign and/or Benton to pay their debt that was accrued for the Festival? This tiff between the PaulFest people and the campaign isn't new. It was kind of disrespectful to record Schiff saying that. He was just being upfront to everyone there. Those people used his words to fight their own agenda. When Schiff got mad at those people for using him, they suddenly started to attack Schiff, like they did with Amash and the RP campaign.

[specsaregood]

I heard he did as well, or, I should say I read it in a blog of someone who was there. Huh.

Deborah said the Paul family bought 20 tickets.

[notsure]

Ron Paul didn't show up at PaulFest. I think his brother might have.

[orenbus]

I dont think there is any legal problem, just a morale problem. Quite a few people behind Paulfest have been talking bad about the campaign, and looking for all types of people to blame for PaulFests failure. Have you heard that they even want the Campaign and/or Benton to pay their debt that was accrued for the Festival? This tiff between the PaulFest people and the campaign isn't new. It was kind of disrespectful to record Schiff saying that. He was just being upfront to everyone there. Those people used his words to fight their own agenda. When Schiff got mad at those people for using him, they suddenly started to attack Schiff, like they did with Amash and the RP campaign.

I didn't hear Deb say anything negatively about the campaign in that video, and as far as Benton, it was Schiff who was showing Deb the text message from Benton, so if you want to go that route in terms of questions of morality, yea...

BTW I have no dog in this, I wasn't able to make it to Florida at all, I'm just very surprised by Schiff in all of this, not so much Benton we all know at least what his motives were.

[notsure]

I didn't hear Deb say anything negatively about the campaign in that video, and as far as Benton, it was Schiff who was showing Deb the text message, so if you want to go that route in terms of questions of morality, yea...

Not Deborah. I havent heard Deborah say anything like that. However some other people who were involved with PaulFest, and not necessarily Liberty Unleashed, have been talking like that. Who was holding the camera? Not Deborah.

[orenbus]

Not Deborah. I havent heard Deborah say anything like that. However some other people who were involved with PaulFest, and not necessarily Liberty Unleashed, have been talking like that. Who was holding the camera? Not Deborah.

Allegedly some guy that wanted to get a picture with Schiff was holding the camera lol.

[sailingaway]

I didn't hear Deb say anything negatively about the campaign in that video, and as far as Benton, it was Schiff who was showing Deb the text message from Benton, so if you want to go that route in terms of questions of morality, yea...

BTW I have no dog in this, I wasn't able to make it to Florida at all, I'm just very surprised by Schiff in all of this, not so much Benton we all know at least what his motives were.

Deb is a completely class act.

[eleganz]

oh so they only like us because we give them views...well that can be fixed rather quickly...unsubscribe!

[Scott_in_PA]

I was there. Ron was not.

As far as the rest of the story, well maybe Deb or someone will fill you all in, but until then I would refrain from pointing fingers.
Do you really think the video guy just got the text part?

And as for Schiff's "It's all gonna crash but you better vote for Romney" speech. He got paid well for something we already know and was probably pissed he wouldn't sell many books. He came off as a Prima donna to me.

Prima donna Modern usage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_donna)

Sometimes, these "prime donne" (the Italian plural form) were grand with their off-stage personalities, and demands on fellow troupe members, musicians, set and wardrobe designers, producers and other staff but were deferentially tolerated because of their commensurate talent and "pulling power," that is, their draw at the box office. From this experience, the term "prima donna" has come into common usage in any field denoting someone who behaves in a demanding, often temperamental fashion, revealing an inflated view of themselves, their talent, and their importance.Due to this association, the contemporary meaning of the word has taken on this negative connotation.
Today the term has become a mainstream word outside opera to often describe a vain, undisciplined, egotistical, obnoxious or temperamental person who finds it difficult to work under direction or as part of a team but whose contributions are essential to the success of a team.

[notsure]

Deb is a completely class act.

I agree with that. I have much respect for Deborah. There were just some other people involved with PaulFest, who the same thing can't be said for.

[coffeewithgames]

So, the conclusion is that Ron Paul did not show up to PaulFest because of his campaign? There is no video/picture proof that I have seen yet that shows RP was at PaulFest (I could start photo-shopping I guess), which makes me wonder...why would a candidate ignore a rally held by his supporters simply because certain people may have been attending? He showed up at the RNC and Romney was there, Rick Santorum was there...

Maybe I'm missing something?

[notsure]

So, the conclusion is that Ron Paul did not show up to PaulFest because of his campaign? There is no video/picture proof that I have seen yet that shows RP was at PaulFest (I could start photo-shopping I guess), which makes me wonder...why would a candidate ignore a rally held by his supporters simply because certain people may have been attending? He showed up at the RNC and Romney was there, Rick Santorum was there...

Maybe I'm missing something?

First of all, PaulFest was organized by a PAC. I think there might be issues with the campaign communicating with a PAC. Also, the campaign said they had conflicts with controlling the venue or something like that. I don't know what exactly was said, maybe they were talking about the security, the PAC, or something else. I've heard some people ask for PaulFest to release their ledger, so we could see exactly how everything went down and what mistakes could be corrected. I would like to know more about the sponsorship. What is a "silver sponsor"? What was the point of VIP passes? What was Liberty Unleashed PAC going to do with all the proceeds from PaulFest?

[sailingaway]

So, the conclusion is that Ron Paul did not show up to PaulFest because of his campaign? There is no video/picture proof that I have seen yet that shows RP was at PaulFest (I could start photo-shopping I guess), which makes me wonder...why would a candidate ignore a rally held by his supporters simply because certain people may have been attending? He showed up at the RNC and Romney was there, Rick Santorum was there...

Maybe I'm missing something?

Carol said they were going to get there if they were able to. Some of the family did. I had thought Ron had from a blog I saw but I haven't had any confirmation from anyone there.

[orenbus]

Here is a video I found with transcript for those of you like me that don't have the best hearing. :)

Disregard the image at the end if you feel offended by it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ15Y8p0akc

[coffeewithgames]

First of all, PaulFest was organized by a PAC. I think there might be issues with the campaign communicating with a PAC. Also, the campaign said they had conflicts with controlling the venue or something like that. I don't know what exactly was said, maybe they were talking about the security, the PAC, or something else. I've heard some people ask for PaulFest to release their ledger, so we could see exactly how everything went down and what mistakes could be corrected. I would like to know more about the sponsorship. What is a "silver sponsor"? What was the point of VIP passes? What was Liberty Unleashed PAC going to do with all the proceeds from PaulFest?

I would apply this to the official campaign myself. Release everything. Every single internal email. Every single phone record. Every single fax. The one thing we know about the official campaign and PaulFest, is that Jesse Benton sent a text...other than that, what do we know?
Ron Paul couldn't control the RNC venue, and showed up there. Again, Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, and a bunch of other people I bet RP doesn't agree with were speaking at the RNC, but yet that didn't stop him from showing up there...


I heard he did as well, or, I should say I read it in a blog of someone who was there. Huh.

What blog? It apparently needs to be corrected.

[sailingaway]

What blog? It apparently needs to be corrected.

Here's one, but it isn't the first one I saw: http://truthiscontagious.com/2012/09/01/jesse-benton-tried-to-derail-%E2%80%9Cpaul-fest%E2%80%9D-but-ron-paul-attended-anyway

[coffeewithgames]

Here's one, but it isn't the first one I saw: http://truthiscontagious.com/2012/09/01/jesse-benton-tried-to-derail-%E2%80%9Cpaul-fest%E2%80%9D-but-ron-paul-attended-anyway

That link doesn't even exist, so maybe they realized their error and pulled the whole thing. LOL, considering the source, the title didn't surprise me and the fact it was incorrect doesn't either.

[Ivash]

Hey, what happened at Paul Fest anyways? I heard that not many people showed up.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

I thought we painfully went over this already. Or trollfully, depending on who.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Hey, what happened at Paul Fest anyways? I heard that not many people showed up.

It was a great event, with a great lineup of speakers and bands, and it was kinda sabotaged by the "official" campaign.

I publicly bitched about their "security" practices not being in line with FL law once the event was over, but had a good time overall. It could have been really BIG. It was still worth the money. Some shady shit came out after the fact. Wish i had a better summary, but that's all I got.

[notsure]

It was a great event, with a great lineup of speakers and bands, and it was kinda sabotaged by the "official" campaign.

I publicly bitched about their "security" practices not being in line with FL law once the event was over, but had a good time overall. It could have been really BIG. It was still worth the money. Some shady shit came out after the fact. Wish i had a better summary, but that's all I got.

At least, explain how 'the "official" campaign' sabotaged the event?

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

At least, explain how 'the "official" campaign' sabotaged the event?

Like I said, I only have a summary.

There's a 30-40 page thread on it somewhere. Obviously, that is my opinion, after reading all of that. Maybe someone can link you, but I don't know where the thread is.

[notsure]

Like I said, I only have a summary.

There's a 30-40 page thread on it somewhere. Obviously, that is my opinion, after reading all of that. Maybe someone can link you, but I don't know where the thread is.

Well, that's a pretty big statement to make, without something to back it up. The only grievance I've really heard was the Benton/Schiff text. That was Bentons' personal statement to Schiff, and it didn't even work. Schiff still showed up. Are there any other people the campaign prevented from going to the event? They didn't send me an email, telling me not to go. Is that thread you're referring to 30-40 pages of proof and facts, or just 30-40 pages of someones elses' opinions? I'm not a Benton supporter, but I don't think anyone can really blame the campaign for the events failures. Some people who were involved with PaulFest were talking about making the campaign and/or Benton pay for PaulFests debts. Do you think they are justified?

[orenbus]

I don't want us to get bogged down in debates about Benton vs. Paulfest, from my understanding most people have already formed an opinion on that, some saying they will not support any future political race that Benton is involved in.

The point of posting the video was to find out from those that were there if Schiff actually said some of the things that were being described by those at the beginning of that video, and if so why? And if it's true why is it that he thinks he can dump on dedicated supporters like Deb and then act upset when it's caught on camera in a public venue?

[phill4paul]

For myself I will never donate in either time or money to any campaign Benton is a part of ever again.

Others, of course, are free to do as they wish. Sad all around.

[notsure]

I don't want us to get bogged down in debates about Benton vs. Paulfest, from my understanding most people have already formed an opinion on that, some saying they will not support any future political race that Benton is involved in.

The point of posting the video was to find out from those that were there if Schiff actually said some of the things that were being described by those at the beginning of that video, and if so why? And if it's true why is it that he thinks he can dump on dedicated supporters like Deb and then act upset when it's caught on camera in a public venue?

I know, but you're saying it like it's already true. Deborah could maybe clear up what was said. I will withhold judgement or cast no accusations, until the video comes out or Deb says something. I think the original video could be taken out of context, just as his response video could be taken out of context. I think there are more parties involved and more things going on here than you, I, or even Deborah really know.

Yea, maybe Schiff was going through some things and maybe a little disappointed or grumpy for some reason, so what? From the video I saw, it didn't sound like he was being mean or anything. I don't see how people can fly off the handle, based on hearsay or someone elses' opinions. I need to know all the facts before I can really come to an opinion, I don't think we will ever get the WHOLE story. I do think that Schiff was used here though, to make someone elses' point. An example was made of him, from the in-fighting.

[sailingaway]

Hey, what happened at Paul Fest anyways? I heard that not many people showed up.

Morale was low after there was a rumor, which turned out to be false, that Ron wouldn't accept the nomination from the floor even if he got it. Once Ron wasn't speaking, it didn't have the draw it would have had, however, unfortunately.

[RyanSebring]

It was a great event, with a great lineup of speakers and bands, and it was kinda sabotaged by the "official" campaign.

I publicly bitched about their "security" practices not being in line with FL law once the event was over, but had a good time overall. It could have been really BIG. It was still worth the money. Some shady shit came out after the fact. Wish i had a better summary, but that's all I got.

What does that mean? Please elaborate further..

By the way, Ron Paul did NOT show up to PAUL Fest, his brother Wayne Paul and other extended family members were on site, Saturday.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Well, that's a pretty big statement to make, without something to back it up.


Not really. I spent a few hours of my life reading about it from people involved and formed an opinion based on statements made by others. I'm sure I form all kinds of opinions and make statements much bigger than that.



I publicly bitched about their "security" practices not being in line with FL law once the event was over


What does that mean? Please elaborate further..

Here it is... http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?387296-Denied-entry-to-Paul-Fest-because-I-had-a-pocket-knife-legal-in-all-50-states I have not read it again since then or may even re-evaluate some things I said at the time. They may have been in line with FL law and I just found it distasteful to be searched at a liberty event, and further distasteful to be turned away for a rather simple pocket knife that is legal about anywhere. (folding knife, less than 3 inch blade length) There were no such searches at the event Ron Paul organized and spoke at. (I went to both events.)

[Brian4Liberty]

How much did it cost for a ticket to attend PAULfest? How much to attend the Ron Paul Rally?

[WarAnonymous]

How much did it cost for a ticket to attend PAULfest? How much to attend the Ron Paul Rally?

Paulfest was 100 something for three days... Rally was free.

I attended both.

[WarAnonymous]

I lied sorry...

Full Event Pass (3 days) - regular price $70.00
Single Day Ticket - regular price $35.00

***Tent Camping Add-on $100.00:***
Includes accommodation for up to 8 campers. Check-in at Friday Noon; check-out Monday 11 AM.
Does NOT include event pass.

VIP Passes - $450.00 (limited availability)

•FREE for credentialed Delegates to the RNC
•Early Bird Price (Before June 30th) - $199.00
•After July 1st - $450.00
VIP Passes include:
•Paul Festival T-Shirt
•VIP lines for food/drink
•VIP only lounge area
•VIP first access to photos/signatures with bands and acts
•Free soda throughout event
•Special seating at select events

Discount ticket qualifications:

•Ticket holders must provide valid proof of ID/ Badge at the gate, or they will have to pay the difference for the full AT-THE-DOOR price for admittance.
•Military, students, and first responders - show badge or ID at the door.
•Veterans - show proof of service (discharge papers along w/ photo ID, or past photo of self in uniform, etc.).
•Oathkeepers - show membership card and photo ID.

[Brian4Liberty]

Paulfest was 100 something for three days... Rally was free.




Full Event Pass (3 days) - regular price $70.00
Single Day Ticket - regular price $35.00

Not to state the obvious, but simple economics and (price) competition dictate that more people will go to the free event, especially if the free event has the most popular headliner.

[parocks]

Although, Peter was an invited guest to PaulFest. PaulFest organizers, including Liberty Unleashed Inc. and Liberty Unleashed PAC, were also the beneficiary of any PaulFest profits. The people behind PaulFest have been looking for everybody to blame for PaulFest's failure besides their own selves.

I dunno, why would you say Paul Fest was a failure? It happened. That's good. It wasn't canceled. There just aren't thousands of hard core Ron Paul supporters who want to spend hundreds of dollars and days just hanging out with other Ron Paul supporters. There are some hard core supporters who want to do that. And a lot of them did show up.

[parocks]

Hey, what happened at Paul Fest anyways? I heard that not many people showed up.

Not many people showed up, but the people who did show up and reported what was going on here seemed to have a good time. I wouldn't call it a failure at all. Sure, there might've been hundreds of people there instead of hundreds of thousands, but that doesn't mean it was a failure, just that it wasn't the kind of event that a lot of people wanted to go to.

[parocks]

It was a great event, with a great lineup of speakers and bands, and it was kinda sabotaged by the "official" campaign.

I publicly bitched about their "security" practices not being in line with FL law once the event was over, but had a good time overall. It could have been really BIG. It was still worth the money. Some shady shit came out after the fact. Wish i had a better summary, but that's all I got.

It could NOT have been really BIG.

It's easy enough to look at what was planned to happen, and determine that the numbers are not going to be big. If you have a lineup of bands for a small al county fair, you don't call it the Woodstock of our generation, and give people the impression that Woodstock ballpark numbers could be attending unless you want to be seen as crazy or delusional.

Nothing went wrong. The event drew the number of people that one would expect. The decision was made not to try to appeal to normal people, only to hard core Ron Paul supporters. And there were hard core Ron Paul supporters there, and they had a good time. It wasn't a fiasco or anything. It's just that there aren't that many hard core Ron Paul supporters who want to spend the time and the money to do that.

[notsure]

I dunno, why would you say Paul Fest was a failure? It happened. That's good. It wasn't canceled. There just aren't thousands of hard core Ron Paul supporters who want to spend hundreds of dollars and days just hanging out with other Ron Paul supporters. There are some hard core supporters who want to do that. And a lot of them did show up.

Oh yeah, in those terms, the event was a success. I'm just talking about how the operation ended up in the red, financial-wise. I forgot exactly how much, but I heard they ended up in debt a few tens of thousands, I want to say somewhere between ~ $20,000~$40,000. Don't take my word for that though, I'm sure someone can get a more accurate figure. There's even a link somewhere, for a chip-in or something, to help them pay their debt off. That may be why some people were asking for them to release their ledger. I've heard some organizers, not necessarily related to Liberty Unleashed Inc./PAC, even claim that the campaign or Benton should be the ones to pay their debt off.

[parocks]

Oh yeah, in those terms, the event was a success. I'm just talking about how the operation ended up in the red, financial-wise. I forgot exactly how much, but I heard they ended up in debt a few tens of thousands, I want to say somewhere between ~ $20,000~$40,000. Don't take my word for that though, I'm sure someone can get a more accurate figure. There's even a link somewhere, for a chip-in or something, to help them pay their debt off. That may be why some people were asking for them to release their ledger. I've heard some organizers, not necessarily related to Liberty Unleashed Inc./PAC, even claim that the campaign or Benton should be the ones to pay their debt oeahff.

Sure, yeah, I would guess they'd lose money.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

It could NOT have been really BIG.

Anything could be anything. :)

Had Paul agreed to show, it would have obviously been much, much bigger. But with his campaign trying to trash the organizers and other speakers, that wasn't going to happen. I never called it the woodstock of our generation or anything similar. I do wish Paul had attended, because more people would have also been able to see people like Stuart Rhodes speak.

Paul's own event had more a sporting event feel, I suppose because it was in a stadium. The festival had more of a "convention" feel because they held it in a convention hall. I thought it was worth the time and money. You didn't. We've differed on that since the beginning. I also think attendance would have been way up had the campaign not kept sending out stupid "we surrender" messages from Benton. If people thought they were still fighting for something, more would have shown up. The truth is that the organizers of PaulFest were not the only actors at play here. The campaign spent the last few months knocking the wind out of everyone's sails, and that surely affected attendance at both events.

[parocks]

Anything could be anything. :)

Had Paul agreed to show, it would have obviously been much, much bigger. But with his campaign trying to trash the organizers and other speakers, that wasn't going to happen. I never called it the woodstock of our generation or anything similar. I do wish Paul had attended, because more people would have also been able to see people like Stuart Rhodes speak.

Paul's own event had more a sporting event feel, I suppose because it was in a stadium. The festival had more of a "convention" feel because they held it in a convention hall. I thought it was worth the time and money. You didn't. We've differed on that since the beginning. I also think attendance would have been way up had the campaign not kept sending out stupid "we surrender" messages from Benton. If people thought they were still fighting for something, more would have shown up. The truth is that the organizers of PaulFest were not the only actors at play here. The campaign spent the last few months knocking the wind out of everyone's sails, and that surely affected attendance at both events.

I had an argument about this months before Paul Fest. I think the argument might have been with you. I was arguing that the bands sucked and wouldn't draw. The person I was arguing with said that having too many good bands would make it less fun for the hard core Ron Paul supporters. Well, I agreed, that is a good plan - If You Don't Want A Lot Of People There. And that's what you got, not a lot of people there.

The product that Paul Fest offered was not appealing to many people. And not many people went to Paul Fest. This shouldn't come as any surprise.

There's no reason to point fingers. If Ron Paul did actually win 1 or more primaries, things might have been different. But he didn't. He lost every single primary. And when Ron Paul announced that there would not be enough delegates to win, it was OVER. And the craziest of the Ron Paul supporters, the ones who were left, decided that somehow Jesse Benton was to blame for not winning, not getting enough delegates, etc., but it was just not getting enough votes on the various election days across the country. But even that had a marginal effect.

The product was just not compelling. Normal People do not want to drive long distances to watch political speeches and marginal bands. They just don't. The hardest of the hard core Ron Paul supporters will do that. And the turnout at Paul Fest answers the quesiton "how many hard core Ron Paul supporters are there, who will spend hundreds of dollars and days of time to hang out with other Ron Paul supporters. There just aren't that many people who want to do that. But those people who did go, did have a good time, apparently, so, good.

The only real problem is that the Paul Fest people guessed way way too high about how many people wanted to buy what they were selling.

[parocks]

Here's more on this:

***********************************

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?379053-media-liaison-for-quot-Paul-Festival-quot-...-says-he-s-quot-hoping-for-half-a-million-quot-attendees&
media liaison for "Paul Festival" ... says he's "hoping for half a million" attendees
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/05/ron-paul-tampa-strategy-party#13473095639401&action=collapse_widget&id=3291029
Zak Carter, a media liaison for Paul Festival who was discharged from the Army after endorsing the congressman while in uniform,
says he's "hoping for half a million" attendees, which could be a bit overly optimistic given that his low-end range is 40,000.
"We would like to have kind of a Woodstock experience," he says.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?377723-quot-Paul-Fest-quot-Gains-More-Celebrities!-Country-Stars-Burns-and-Poe-Make-Huge-Announcement!&
"Paul Fest" Gains More Celebrities! Country Stars Burns and Poe Make Huge Announcement!

*************************

Took me a long time to find this:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?380647-Ron-Paul-supporters-now-working-on-two-pre-RNC-festivals&p=4494841&viewfull=1#post4494841

This is what you said on June 15

"As I understand it, this is supposed to be a gathering of Paul supporters,
not an attempt to draw in a bunch of free roaming festival followers who run around the country sleeping in their cars."

And me.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?380647-Ron-Paul-supporters-now-working-on-two-pre-RNC-festivals&p=4495885&viewfull=1#post4495885

"It's basically a music festival right? It costs $77 right? If they get $77 worth of bands, people will show up.
They have the advantage of being able to get some Ron Paul supporters who aren't going to pick apart the lineup.
Good, big festivals cost more than $77."

And then a fairly detailed argument. After that argument, I pretty much took your position, that Ron Paul supporters didn't need a bunch of good bands.

It turns out that 1) either Ron Paul supporters do need good bands or 2) there aren't a lot of Ron Paul supporters.

**************************************

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

I had an argument about this months before Paul Fest. I think the argument might have been with you. I was arguing that the bands sucked and wouldn't draw. The person I was arguing with said that having too many good bands would make it less fun for the hard core Ron Paul supporters.


That wouldn't have been me. I love good bands.



The official emails coming out of the campaign were fucking deflating to a lot of people here. They were surely not "Come to Tampa and show our strength" emails. They were... "meh, whatever" emails. That 100% made a difference on the amount of people willing to be in the area.



This is what you said on June 15

"As I understand it, this is supposed to be a gathering of Paul supporters,
not an attempt to draw in a bunch of free roaming festival followers who run around the country sleeping in their cars."


I'll keep ownership of that statement, no problem. You left out a bunch of your own statements, though.

[Tod]

I just donated $100 to help pay down the debt on Paulfest. I just wish I could've gone!!!! One of the drawbacks of being a one man show with my business is that the company literally has to close up shop if I take off. Mixed feelings about being so indispensable. :D

[parocks]

That wouldn't have been me. I love good bands.



The official emails coming out of the campaign were fucking deflating to a lot of people here. They were surely not "Come to Tampa and show our strength" emails. They were... "meh, whatever" emails. That 100% made a difference on the amount of people willing to be in the area.





I'll keep ownership of that statement, no problem. You left out a bunch of your own statements, though.

The discussion was one we had. It was linked to. We went back and forth on this issue, and basically, I came to your way of thinking on this. Not by the end of the thread, but within a couple of days. If I didn't come to your way of thinking, every single Paul Fest thread would've had a post by me saying "these bands basicaly suck and no one will show up." You made the argument that the people we wanted didn't really care about bands. Well, you now know what happens when the bands basically are picked at random. People don't show up. We learned something. Unknown or shitty bands mean low turnout.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?380647-Ron-Paul-supporters-now-working-on-two-pre-RNC-festivals&p=4494841&viewfull=1#post4494841
Basically our argument from page 3 through page 4.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

The discussion was one we had. It was linked to. We went back and forth on this issue, and basically, I came to your way of thinking on this. Not by the end of the thread, but within a couple of days. If I didn't come to your way of thinking, every single Paul Fest thread would've had a post by me saying "these bands basicaly suck and no one will show up." You made the argument that the people we wanted didn't really care about bands. Well, you now know what happens when the bands basically are picked at random. People don't show up. We learned something. Unknown or shitty bands mean low turnout.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?380647-Ron-Paul-supporters-now-working-on-two-pre-RNC-festivals&p=4494841&viewfull=1#post4494841
Basically our argument from page 3 through page 4.


What is the point you are making? It's not at all clear to me.

[parocks]

What is the point you are making? It's not at all clear to me.




here are some of the comments that I made on that thread

"If they get $77 worth of bands, people will show up.
They have the advantage of being able to get some Ron Paul supporters who aren't going to pick apart the lineup."

"There will either be $77 worth of bands or there won't be."

"For $77, people will expect a real festival, with real acts, like you'd get for $77 somewhere else."

"I just don't see that many people showing up if they don't have something good to do.
This is a music festival with some politics in it right? Buy $77 dollars worth of acts.
There are just not that many people who are going to want to buy that product."

Hey, 2 days ago, my position was that this was worthless and shouldn't be done unless there was a point to it.
Now I'm saying that if you want a lot of people there, you're gonna have to provide a lot more.
And I'm not saying this should be free, or that there should be free beer, but you have compelling stuff for hours and hours for 3 days,
and Schiff and Stanhope isn't quite enough.
Are these guys planning 12 hour sets? 3 days, get 3 legit headliners. And fill in with a lot of sonic bids bands.

"There isn't much Red Jumpsuit Apparatus on pollstar, so they might be available (and they're from Florida)."

And some that you made.

"But the kind of line up that will attract a Paul fan is a little easier than most other places too.
Let's say they get 3 of these 5 - Paul, Schiff, Arron Lewis, Pokerface, Joe Rogan/Doug Stanhope.
Calling Joe and Doug the same thing, basically, a libertarian comedian. I think $77 would be a steal for that, and $77 would be fine for Paul alone.
I'd even consider $77 to be adequate to stick me in a field with 5,000 other Paul supporters doing whatever they want,
so I admittedly have a very low bar here."

"Sure, but I bet you can't name another festival where Peter Schiff would be considered a draw.
Someone like Doug Stanhope would see his biggest audience in years, and be well received, well paid, and happy.
Rogan... I dunno, he seems to be making money. I'm just saying this is apples to oranges when you compare it to
other festivals, and especially other music festivals."

"Personally, I'd love to meet a crowd of people who have been making this same fight for 10, 5, or 1 year, and even better if there are performers,
and even better if there are a few big performers there. I'd love to see bassnectar. lol. I know what a draw that is,
but we're trying to draw RP fans. But if I saw a bunch of RP people hanging around campfires, that could be pretty rewarding as well.
I think some of us (I) see it as a political festival with music and speakers mixed in, and that explains our divide quite a bit."

After this thread, I saw it your way. But, you know, when the goal is to appeal to people who would be happy to spend $77 to sit around a campfire with
Ron Paul supporters, you aren't going to find many people like that. And if we're talking about profit or loss, well, that's why there's a loss
and not a profit. There weren't bands that people who aren't hard core Ron Paul supporters wanted to see for $77, and there weren't enough
hard core Ron Paul supporters to avoid losing money.



About Benton and emails. What you're forgetting is the importance of OBJECTIVE REALITY. Very foreseeable objective reality.

The problem is that WE LOST. Not that Benton said we lost or that an email said we lost, it was the actual FACT of LOSING that caused people
to be less motivated. We just stopped paying attention to the results of the primaries, pretending that they didn't matter, and looked only at
what was happening at conventions. But those primaries actually were very important. Those primaries ended up giving Romney a lot of delegates.
And there was nothing we could do about that. But we ignored that, and decided that emails or Benton had some bearing on the outcome, when it
was bound delegates and winner take all and primaries where Romney, in state after state, would get all the delegates, and we got none. We
didn't win the popular vote in any primary or caucus in the US. That Fact was much more important that Bentons word choices or emails from the campaign.

[archangel689]

Wow I just found this video, I wonder if that is true that Schiff was being a jerk prior to showing Benton's text message

Well, looks like the cat is out of the bag, now.

I was told this directly while in tampa, from one of the highest possible sources, someone who not only was there when the video was filmed but an extremely reliable source. Directly to my face. There is more video than what was uploaded to youtube. Additionally, I had a discussion with Schiff, and although I think he's an ally, I also think he's a dick on an ego trip.

Please listen to Scott_in_PA he was there with me and I can attest that he knows what the hell is going on.

[Indy Vidual]

I just donated $100 to help pay down the debt on Paulfest. I just wish I could've gone!!!! One of the drawbacks of being a one man show with my business is that the company literally has to close up shop if I take off. Mixed feelings about being so indispensable. :D

+rep.
Everyone please donate, if you can.

[orenbus]

Well, looks like the cat is out of the bag, now.

I was told this directly while in tampa, from one of the highest possible sources, someone who not only was there when the video was filmed but an extremely reliable source. Directly to my face. There is more video than what was uploaded to youtube. Additionally, I had a discussion with Schiff, and although I think he's an ally, I also think he's a dick on an ego trip.

Please listen to Scott_in_PA he was there with me and I can attest that he knows what the hell is going on.

Wowwww :mad:

Yea it makes sense, I had little doubt the people in the video were making up a story just for the hell of it, just from seeing how Schiff interacts sometimes with people I had a strange feeling this was the case. No more book purchases, if he's going to go around treating dedicated Ron Paul supporters badly and then expect people to pay his way he has another thing coming.

[steph3n]

$77 was just the event, that doesnt count the super expensive hotel rooms for those that don't want to camp out or car sleep, the hard core type. You aren't going to have a massive event around those settings with the RNC having bought up the hotels in the area, and media, and others there as well. It just wasn't SET for success because it was having many external items against it, not even getting into the internal squabbles for months prior.

[notsure]

Oren, why are you still sharing and spreading that video, calling it "the TRUTH about PaulFest, Schiff and Benton" when you don't even know the whole story or the context? I've seen you just even posted it on Facebook again. It doesn't really matter all that much to me. I'm just sayin. What's the deal? As soon as you find the rest of the video or backstory to all this, I'd willingly accept it. It's just a lot of hearsay at this point. This was the exact reason Schiff was made out to be a pawn in the whole in-fighting thing, and you're pushing it. Like I said, if you can back any of this up, I would be glad to take it to heart.

[orenbus]

Oren, why are you still sharing and spreading that video, calling it "the TRUTH about PaulFest, Schiff and Benton" when you don't even know the whole story or the context? I've seen you just even posted it on Facebook again. It doesn't really matter all that much to me. I'm just sayin. What's the deal? As soon as you find the rest of the video or backstory to all this, I'd willingly accept it. It's just a lot of hearsay at this point. This was the exact reason Schiff was made out to be a pawn in the whole in-fighting thing, and you're pushing it. Like I said, if you can back any of this up, I would be glad to take it to heart.

Read above, I was waiting for a confirmation and a second source has come out about this. And I never posted it on facebook before, not sure what your talking about, I just did because I was waiting for that second source and trust me I haven't even begun to spread this around lol.

[orenbus]

//

[notsure]

Read above, I was waiting for a confirmation and a second source has come out about this. And I never posted it on facebook before, not sure what your talking about, I just did because I was waiting for that second source and trust me I haven't even begun to spread this around lol.

Well, why don't you share the second source with us and what they say?

[orenbus]

Well, why don't you share the second source with us and what they say?

Read Above

[notsure]

Read Above

I did. I didn't see anything. Are you talking about the poster who says that they heard something form someone who is a reliable source? Where is the video? What is the story? If that's the post you're talking about, that's hardly a reliable source. Like I said before, all I'm seeing is hearsay, and peoples' opinions. I think we need to find out what's really going on here, who are all the players, and what agendas are trying to be played here, before we can make any accusations of any sort. This has something to do with the in-fighting. This is not just about Schiff, Schiff is just being made an example out of. I think the whole thing is a little bigger, and a little more complex than we think. I'd like to see all sides of this story and hear all the evidence before I cast judgement.

[green73]

//

[Tod]

C'mon, people, let's get the Paulfest debt paid off!

If we don't, it doesn't just reflect poorly on the organizers who worked their butts off for the movement, it reflects on EVERYONE who calls themselves a part of the Liberty Movement.

After the millions donated to the campaign, $26-$27 thou is NOTHING....IF.....enough people donate.

At $50/person, that is just 540 people to pay off $27,000.