the climate of fear

[Mr. Perfidy]

I worry that Dr. Paul and the movement around him in general has it all wrong; I watched the Leno interview earlier today and he mentioned how we need "more people talking about the issues," and this generally reflects the attitude of most of us here. Myself included- I am maybe the neighborhood psycho to some people, because when things happen, I typically make comments that place these events in a socio-political context. The episode below though explains the typical reaction from non-believers when discussing the issues:

So, today I went to my Leasing Office (I live in an apartment village) to ask about this mandatory municipal inspection. I am going away for a few days with the wife, and explained that I would rather the government invade my home while I am in it, rather than not present, so I went to ask about requesting that they come on 2 of 4 possible days, when I can be home.

The reactions from the employees was (unfortunately not) surprising and alarming. Meek, downward looks, repetitive, babbling mantras like, "oh well they'll come when they can, they're just going to do their thing," etc etc. Being let down as I kind of expected, I added,

"Ok just for my own gratification then....do any of you think that they are runnin' up in my house because they care about my safety?"


Now, I was in a room with 4 people, all working class. I expect only the meekest and most ludicrous orthodoxy from this one old white lady receptionist, but the other 3 people totally let me down! A puerto rican Gen X'er just stared with a scared look, the old black maintenance guy joined the receptionist in weird, timid chanting apologies, and the younger, college aged black kid intern or something, he just made a strained face that maybe communicated sympathy?

Not one of them was willing to speak out loud any criticism of even their broke-ass MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT! And they know that I am the chairman of the republican party here! Even with an appropriate politically contexted "in," all they did was meekly look at the ground and fumble apologies. It was honestly quite disturbing.


So, I came home a few minutes ago and reflected and decided to share this concern. I have to note that this kind of reaction is all too common, and why I am afraid that the Ron Paul movement is a 20th century meme.

What if? there was no more need to discuss issues with people, because even the most menial workers with the least amount of education have all already internalized the message of our ruling class? What if everyone knows all about the constitution, individual rights, and individual freedom, but also knows that generations just shredded that shit unquestioned since they were children? How do you confront the State in a place where people are afraid to admit to each other in their own villages that it is a racket?

[Mr. Perfidy]

I would add a question- when discussing politics, or even making a single heretical comment among strangers, do you often see a flash of a face for a brief second, where you can see that the stranger is scared and searching his mind as if wondering if you are a secret policeman? I get that look often, and believe that it is what "crimestop" looks like. It is often followed by a goodthinker crimestop bullshit evasion.

[TrishW]

mandatory municipal inspection??

What the heck? Am I understanding you right? They can come into your home and inspect without a search warrant or even probable cause? Really?? We are that far gone?

[LinuxJedi]

People often look at me as if I'm a nut because I won't fly due to body scanners, and that I believe that the government is out of control. "The government is there to protect us" is the mantra these people hold. They are quite happy to be molested, x-rayed, poked or prodded by Father Government.

I have come to believe that the reason Ron Paul wasn't elected is because the people aren't awake. I agree they are terrified, but if you watch the news you'll see why. There are so many crises to keep people occupied with anything but the actions of their own government. Waking up the population is an important step, and I wonder how far the USA has to sink until people start to react. We haven't hit rock bottom yet, and it's getting scary.

[Mr. Perfidy]

no my point is, we are in fact already living at the bottom- how can it get worse when a man can't get 4 working class FELLOW VILLAGERS (3 of the 4 people there LIVE IN MY FUCKIN APARTMENT COMPLEX) to admit that the loser TOWN government has no right to run up on his house? This being the environment, we are probably already systematically exterminating people. It could be happening in the next village over, and if I asked anyone around town, they would look at the ground and then TextATip as soon as they think that I cannot see them.

[TonySutton]

I would be tempted to find a bunch of inexpensive sex toys and alternative lifestyle accessories to set around all over the apartment for the inspection.

[Mr. Perfidy]

mandatory municipal inspection??

they thanked me for my anticipated cooperation


What the heck? Am I understanding you right? They can come into your home and inspect without a search warrant or even probable cause? Really?? We are that far gone?

Well, duh- I live in their town!

hahahaha people say that!!!!!

ostensibly, the reason is to make sure that my smoke detectors are in working order, and also they have to check to make sure that I am not piling flammable garbage around my water heater. Because they are very worried about my safety.

[Mr. Perfidy]

I would be tempted to find a bunch of inexpensive sex toys and alternative lifestyle accessories to set around all over the apartment for the inspection

one of my concerns is them going through that stuff! Deviant bastards!

[TrishW]

sheep

[Mr. Perfidy]

Because the people are clearly unaffected by arguments of reason and appeals to logic, and because their compliance endangers my own liberty, is it moral to harm them until they are more afraid of the Liberty people than of the Government? For real question. If a guy in a Ron Paul shirt started breaking jaws of people who make apologies for government abuse, I bet that people would stop apologizing for government, and start apologizing for the guy breaking jaws.

[Sematary]

I don't see fear. The adjectives I would use to describe what ai see are...
1. Apathy
2. Disbelief (people really don't believe the government is the ultimate evil in the galaxy DESPITE all the evidence to the contrary - because it is more comfortable not to.)
3. Ignorance - most people get their newsspeak from the msm and thus have no fucking clue what is going on in the world.
4 Willing participants - people who DO see what's going on and believe it is the right thing to do (the majority of people who belong to either of the two major political parties
5. Hopeless - those who have simply given up hope that things can be fixed (also includes apathetic people). THESE are the people we can reach

[John F Kennedy III]

no my point is, we are in fact already living at the bottom- how can it get worse when a man can't get 4 working class FELLOW VILLAGERS (3 of the 4 people there LIVE IN MY FUCKIN APARTMENT COMPLEX) to admit that the loser TOWN government has no right to run up on his house? This being the environment, we are probably already systematically exterminating people. It could be happening in the next village over, and if I asked anyone around town, they would look at the ground and then TextATip as soon as they think that I cannot see them.

Oh this ain't shit. This is sunshine and lollipops compared to what awaits us if we don't pull the plane out of this tailspin.

WWIII

FEMA camps/1984 style police state

Complete collapse of economy leaving the majority of us living Road Warrior style

.....

[affa]

People don't want to believe anything bad about:
1) themselves
2) anything they deeply associate and identify with themselves, such as their country

Meanwhile, criticism of gov't has been marginalized for decades -- dissent as unpatriotic, of course, but also anyone criticizing the gov't must be a 'tinfoil hat' conspiracy theorist (we even get people here that constantly insult others here with that meme, reinforcing it).

Remember, pretty much every important topic is now considered taboo to speak of. You can talk about tv, or sports, or the weather. But if you bring up politics, or abortion, or monetary policy? Yea, good luck with that.

There are several groups of people:
1) ones that welcome tyranny "i don't have anything to hide"
2) ones that are too meek to do anything "what can you do?"
3) ones that don't see it as tyranny "well, it keeps us safer"
4) ones that are critical, but silent -- a lifetime of going against the grain and feeling like a loner makes it hard to speak out, sometimes
5) the vocal minority that speak up and risk social ostracization and/or stigmatization. That's most of us here.

I've lived on the outskirts of polite society for decades now (and being more than willing to put forth my views, even as a child arguing against a two party system with my Democrat-brain-washed father). I don't mind criticizing the gov't in public, but I know that most people have a huge wall built up in front of that. They're not scared of retribution so much as being judged.

If you catch people at the right time - say, around a fire pit, and the conversation turns to politics, you'll find almost everyone is incredibly critical of everything. Those same people, however, might toe the party line at work. It's really interesting.

I remember in the 80's and 90's, I used to have to use a phrase like "things can change fast -- in 10 years, we could be like...". I no longer need to preface it with 'in 10 years'. Deep down, people know we're already there. 9/11, regardless of how or why it happened, was used by our ruling class to double down on tyranny.

[Mr. Perfidy]

well my argument is, there could right now be such camps, and how would I know? DHS would remove info from the internet, and any involved parties would be terrified of speaking of it. And, anyone who happened to get their hands on some info would just look at the ground and stare instead of sharing it.

I have had similar conversations with similar groups of neighbors/local people in response to things like,

"oh hey did you guys see the cops beating that kid on the sidewalk?"

no responses


"what is that 50 foot long van with exterior locks for you think? Little much for a township police department, no?"

no answers except hatred and fear.

The hardwares already here in NJ, and no appeals to reason will even make people LOOK AT IT WHEN ITS ON THE STREET! They just act like I am impolite for calling attention to it.

[Mr. Perfidy]

Also Mr, Kennedy, we are already in the 1984 Coercion Immersion- in my town, there are live-feed cameras (with microphones) lining the major roads; when kids at work return from out of state, they are always pulled over as "a suspicious vehicle," as in, the cameras and License Plate readers identified that a car registered to a young person left the State and returned, and must therefore be searched. There's a corridor where this happens quite predictably.

[Mr. Perfidy]

Deep down, people know we're already there. 9/11, regardless of how or why it happened, was used by our ruling class to double down on tyranny.

that is what I mean. Exactly.

Really, the enemy is not ignorance. Our enemy is that the organs of critical thought are literally TURNED OFF in most people because they know that critical thought only identifies them as dangerous to the scary armored goon squads with aerial surveillance and computer tracking.

[pcosmar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzmpXz5d2z0

[ClydeCoulter]

My sisters husband posted this on FB (any questions as to whether he's bought into it?)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53961121/NotApologiseForBeAmerican.png

[Mr. Perfidy]

... huh?

[John F Kennedy III]

Also Mr, Kennedy, we are already in the 1984 Coercion Immersion- in my town, there are live-feed cameras (with microphones) lining the major roads; when kids at work return from out of state, they are always pulled over as "a suspicious vehicle," as in, the cameras and License Plate readers identified that a car registered to a young person left the State and returned, and must therefore be searched. There's a corridor where this happens quite predictably.

Oh absolutely. And the worst part is most people either ignore it or welcome it!

[Mr. Perfidy]

that is what I mean to address in this thread- how do you talk to people whose critical minds are obviously turned off by being afraid?

Say this was 10,000 BC, and we were in the woods, and surrounded by staring eyes- would the people surrounded think rational things about these staring eyes, or get afraid? Their brains would tell them, "Yo- we are being watched...be careful." The higher functions would be de-emphasized in order to stimulate their nervous systems for a likely ass-whooping.

[QuickZ06]

When Americans want to talk about sports more than politics I really start to wonder. They will discuss something they have zero control over to death but yet when it comes to the government/politics (local, state, and federal) they tend to stray away and usually do not know much and this IS something they have control over.

[shane77m]

When Americans want to talk about sports more than politics I really start to wonder. They will discuss something they have zero control over to death but yet when it comes to the government/politics (local, state, and federal) they tend to stray away and usually do not know much and this IS something they have control over.

Roll Tide!
War Eagle!

That's all you hear down here in Bama.

And also "anyone but Obama" and all of the other cliches about voting for someone other than Romney.

[jcarcinogen]

That's crazy. I can check my own smoke detector.

[coffeewithgames]

mandatory municipal inspection??

What the heck? Am I understanding you right? They can come into your home and inspect without a search warrant or even probable cause? Really?? We are that far gone?

If he is living in an apartment complex, it's probably in the contract. They did send a notice out, otherwise he wouldn't have known.

[Mr. Perfidy]

haha the dullard person that I expected to let me down, she said,

"Well they sent a notice..."

To which I replied,

"Indeed- I am sure that in germany and russia, people excused it with that exact line. 'Well...comeon at least they told you, CITIZEN.

I said that on my way out, and heard someone say, "I agree with him," as the door was closing, but it was not a voice of any of the 4 I was addressing. It came from a back room, so the Complex Manager or the visting dignitary new-ownership representative.

[Miss Annie]

We don't hear too many songs like this anymore.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxiMrvDbq3s

Call my cynical or a conspiracy theorist, but this list pretty much sums it up...... and most of the goals have been achieved!


The Communist Takeover Of
America - 45 Declared Goals
From Greg Swank
12-4-2

You are about to read a list of 45 goals that found their way down the halls of our great Capitol back in 1963. As you read this, 39 years later, you should be shocked by the events that have played themselves out. I first ran across this list 3 years ago but was unable to attain a copy and it has bothered me ever since. Recently, Jeff Rense posted it on his site and I would like to thank him for doing so. http://www.rense.com

Communist Goals (1963) Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35 January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Thursday, January 10, 1963 .

Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

http://rense.com/general32/americ.htm

[LinuxJedi]

http://rense.com/general32/americ.htm

This is the first I've ever seen this, and I seem to be unable to find this in actual references (i.e. the congressional record mentioned). Any credible citations or links to original sources?

[kahless]

This is the first I've ever seen this, and I seem to be unable to find this in actual references (i.e. the congressional record mentioned). Any credible citations or links to original sources?

Same here. I found this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Communist



The Naked Communist is a book written in 1958 by conservative United States author and faith-based political theorist Cleon Skousen.[1]

The book posits and seeks to describe a geopolitical strategy by which the Marxist-Leninist Soviet Union was attempting to overcome and control all the governments of the world that were not members of the Communist bloc. At the time that the book was published, during the Cold War, fear of communism was common among people in non-communist nations.

In 1960, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints president David O. McKay recommended that all members of his church read The Naked Communist.[2]

The list of communist goals contained in the book was read into the Congressional Record by U.S. Congressman Albert S. Herlong, Jr. of Florida, on January 10, 1963.[3]

List of Communist goals.......

[LinuxJedi]

That's a circular reference... one of the many "advantages" of wikipedia. Wikipedia refers to the link posted above to cite from the book, not the book itself. Anyways, I downloaded the congressional record and there was no mention of this... though it's possible I downloaded the wrong record. It seems a bit incredible for such a thing to actually have been discussed in the 60s, and I am in the habit of double-checking incredible claims ;-)

[kahless]

That's a circular reference... one of the many "advantages" of wikipedia. Wikipedia refers to the link posted above to cite from the book, not the book itself. Anyways, I downloaded the congressional record and there was no mention of this... though it's possible I downloaded the wrong record. It seems a bit incredible for such a thing to actually have been discussed in the 60s, and I am in the habit of double-checking incredible claims ;-)

I searched for 5 minutes finding it quoted everywhere and gave up. I posted that link thinking at the time that the OP did not provide the book and author name.

[Miss Annie]

I found a document claiming to have the location of the microfilm - Here is the link, scroll down http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm


Microfilm:

California State University at San Jose
Clark Library, Government Floor
Phone (408)924-2770
Microfilm
Call Number:
J
11
.R5
Congressional Record, Vol. 109
88th Congress, 1st Session
Appendix Pages A1-A2842
Jan. 9-May 7, 1963
Reel 12

[LinuxJedi]

http://archive.org/details/congressionalrec109gunit

I found that... but didn't see anything in there. I mean, maybe it was said maybe it wasn't... it sounds incredible, and would be more incredible if I could find that it really was said ;-)

[Anti Federalist]

this mandatory municipal inspection

Wow, so the house to house "safety inspections" have started, huh?

And bet your ass anything "suspicious" will duly reported.

And not one fuck, by Boobus, was given.

That scared, bovine like, "flat line" look is the same one I get each and every time I start ranting about my rights at the airport.

See ya all on the other side brothers and sisters, into the maelstrom we go.

[affa]

that is what I mean to address in this thread- how do you talk to people whose critical minds are obviously turned off by being afraid?

You need to drop a logic bomb on them. What that bomb is, and the best form of deployment, depends on the person.

For example: I once was at a deserted intersection (that I knew well) in the middle of the night. I stopped, looked both ways, and proceeded through the light. My passenger was deeply religious and told me I could go to hell for that (something about man's laws being god's laws, and therefore I was sinning). My response was simple, immediate, and to the point: "Does that mean the morality of abortion is dependent upon the law?" Note that my statement didn't make any moral statement about abortion - but rather, just forced their head into a loop. I disconnected their top-down authority based morality on the spot (and was later thanked for it, oddly).

Ron Paul is an absolute master of dropping logic bombs in interviews and debates.

You can not argue and win. Almost everybody already has their mind made up on everything. But if you can short circuit them, you can begin the process of waking them up. It's then on them to continue it. And to short circuit, you can't argue.

Not everyone is ready for the red pill. Most happily consume their Soma, and being forced awake can be a very painful experience for some, since it basically means your world view crumbles in on itself.

[paulbot24]

I'm still working on my weapons grade enrichment before I can drop real logic A-bombs.

[cjm]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to affa again.

[RickyJ]

they thanked me for my anticipated cooperation



Well, duh- I live in their town!

hahahaha people say that!!!!!

ostensibly, the reason is to make sure that my smoke detectors are in working order, and also they have to check to make sure that I am not piling flammable garbage around my water heater. Because they are very worried about my safety.

My solution to such a town would be to move. There is no hope for such a town that allows this.

[Mr. Perfidy]

you obviously say that from a position of caste advantage- in the laboring populations, much like vedic india and medieval serfdom, you have to first demonstrate to the village (housing providers) that the Lord of that region has need of you (proof of employment), then you have to pay manumission to the new landholder (security deposit) and the old landholder (various unavoidable fees and fines backed up by the courts). It is just not possible and it offends me that people are so out of touch with reality that they imagine poor people can just be like, "oh well my conditions here stink. I guess I will be moving on!" That is not how government-controlled markets work for working people.

[KingNothing]

I would add a question- when discussing politics, or even making a single heretical comment among strangers, do you often see a flash of a face for a brief second, where you can see that the stranger is scared and searching his mind as if wondering if you are a secret policeman? I get that look often, and believe that it is what "crimestop" looks like. It is often followed by a goodthinker crimestop bullshit evasion.

If I make some flippant, friendly, humorous comment about politicians and the state being awful, it's almost always met with agreement. I think most people feel the same way that we do about these things, it's just that sometimes they may be caught off guard by our intensity.

[TruckinMike]

Not one of them was willing to speak out loud any criticism of even their broke-ass MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT! ...

What if? there was no more need to discuss issues with people, because even the most menial workers with the least amount of education have all already internalized the message of our ruling class? What if everyone knows all about the constitution, individual rights, and individual freedom, but also knows that generations just shredded that shit unquestioned since they were children? How do you confront the State in a place where people are afraid to admit to each other in their own villages that it is a racket?

Confront them. Ask them to recall the conversation, then tell them your concerns about the nation and how their lackadaisical response upset you. Sometimes people are on auto pilot and not really thinking -- our job is to get them thinking.