The Divide in this country is too strong.

[WilliamShrugged]

I recently moved to Texas so i could save up some money for my move to NH. Doing so allows me to finally spend some time with family i haven't been involved with for many years. My mom and stepdad are republicans that watch fox news and Cspan daily. My mother is also very religious, but she is also very respectful to my opposing views. I have had to deal with the "not voting is a vote for Obama" nonsense, and i have been trying to explain where i as a libertarian am coming from. They always reply with crap i agree with about how bad democrats, liberals, and Obama are. Thinking that refutes my points. Just now we were watching fox new and they decided to cover how the Democrats leave out the word god in their speeches, or how many times the gop has said it compared to democrats. This i knew is something my mom views as a reason to vote against Obama (granted they both just saw Obama 2016 movie, only furthering their views that its only Obama and not both parties that are destroying this country). This is the kind of crap i have to deal with when just trying to explain how both parties are responsible for taking away our freedoms.

[evilfunnystuff]

It would be nice to have a well produced and engaging documentary specifically dedicated to addressing the false left right paradigm.

[RickyJ]

I recently moved to Texas so i could save up some money for my move to NH. Doing so allows me to finally spend some time with family i haven't been involved with for many years. My mom and stepdad are republicans that watch fox news and Cspan daily. My mother is also very religious, but she is also very respectful to my opposing views. I have had to deal with the "not voting is a vote for Obama" nonsense, and i have been trying to explain where i as a libertarian am coming from. They always reply with crap i agree with about how bad democrats, liberals, and Obama are. Thinking that refutes my points. Just now we were watching fox new and they decided to cover how the Democrats leave out the word god in their speeches, or how many times the gop has said it compared to democrats. This i knew is something my mom views as a reason to vote against Obama (granted they both just saw Obama 2016 movie, only furthering their views that its only Obama and not both parties that are destroying this country). This is the kind of crap i have to deal with when just trying to explain how both parties are responsible for taking away our freedoms.

Your family is brain washed. They get their news from the boob tube so it is no wonder the opinions they have. They don't get it from unbiased facts, they get lies and propaganda and they believe it to be the truth. Until you can convince them that they are being lied to by the talking heads on TV they will continue to think just as the talking heads want them to think.

[DamianTV]

It would be nice to have a well produced and engaging documentary specifically dedicated to addressing the false left right paradigm.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lXBZd3jmbWg

[bunklocoempire]

I recently moved to Texas so i could save up some money for my move to NH. Doing so allows me to finally spend some time with family i haven't been involved with for many years. My mom and stepdad are republicans that watch fox news and Cspan daily. My mother is also very religious, but she is also very respectful to my opposing views. I have had to deal with the "not voting is a vote for Obama" nonsense, and i have been trying to explain where i as a libertarian am coming from. They always reply with crap i agree with about how bad democrats, liberals, and Obama are. Thinking that refutes my points. Just now we were watching fox new and they decided to cover how the Democrats leave out the word god in their speeches, or how many times the gop has said it compared to democrats. This i knew is something my mom views as a reason to vote against Obama (granted they both just saw Obama 2016 movie, only furthering their views that its only Obama and not both parties that are destroying this country). This is the kind of crap i have to deal with when just trying to explain how both parties are responsible for taking away our freedoms.

Sorry for your problems.

I have had this discussion with my own mother. I asked her if it was a good idea to let government define what god was.

Government using the word 'god' will also lead to government defining the word. The Roman Empire had some idea of what 'god' was -the emperor. How fitting.

My mom was eventually swayed.

Getting that light-bulb to turn on in your parental units heads is worth the long years of grief. Keep it up!

[Matt Collins]

When there is mass unity, bad things often happen.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

It's impossible to change every mind, indeed it is the ones we love dearest which hurts the most.

[TomtheTinker]

Have them to explain the difference between the bush and obsma presidency as far as policy is concerned.

[Lucille]

Sorry for your problems.

I have had this discussion with my own mother. I asked her if it was a good idea to let government define what god was.

Government using the word 'god' will also lead to government defining the word. The Roman Empire had some idea of what 'god' was -the emperor. How fitting.

My mom was eventually swayed.

Getting that light-bulb to turn on in your parental units heads is worth the long years of grief. Keep it up!

This is excellent. +rep

One might argue it already is, by (re)defining marriage. Why would they want their Lord (and churches, marriages) sullied by the filthy state at all?!

"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

[Working Poor]

thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil.

[WilliamShrugged]

What i have been doing is pointing out when the media and politicians clearly are making a point that is intended to just attack the other side to angry the bases. I hope its catching on.

[QueenB4Liberty]

My parents love Ron Paul and libertarians but they also believe Obama is much worse than Obama.

[BSU kid]

I share the pain of the OP, I actually got my mother to vote RP in the Indiana Primary :) but the next day she was right into the mittens bandwagon. :( I try having calm intellectual debates with her, but it just won't work. The Two Party System has brainwashed people.

[LibertyEagle]

When the economy completely implodes and the banks go boom, a whole lot of people are going to be looking for answers. The better positioned we are and the more podiums we have from which to speak, the more we will be able to sway their sentiment towards liberty.

They know deep down that they are being lied to right now. I think a whole lot of them are just scared and running to their comfort zones.

[LibertyEagle]

William, would this possibly help?

http://ronpaulflix.com/2011/10/ron-paul-speech-at-iowas-faith-freedom-coalition-fall-banquet-oct-22-2011/

[ninepointfive]

When there is mass unity, bad things often happen.

What? You mean like when everyone works in the GOP, and no other avenue to restore the republic is taken?

bwahahaha! got cha! =)

[WilliamShrugged]

William, would this possibly help?

http://ronpaulflix.com/2011/10/ron-paul-speech-at-iowas-faith-freedom-coalition-fall-banquet-oct-22-2011/

I'll have to show this to her. Thanks!

[bunklocoempire]

This is excellent. +rep

One might argue it already is, by (re)defining marriage. Why would they want their Lord (and churches, marriages) sullied by the filthy state at all?!

"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

Thanks.

Why would they?

In my experience it's because they are constantly bombarded with "God needs your help to keep your fellow humans in line".

Exploiting human emotion.

Any believer who wants to pay attention will realize that God has made it perfectly clear that He uses governments that are good bad or otherwise.

-But He certainly doesn't need them to be good bad or otherwise to accomplish His will.

All He ever convinces us to do, for Jesus sake, is to do the right thing by Him.

When we're convinced to do the evil thing to "help" God, well, that ain't God doing the convincing.

Rewarding bad behavior out of fear or what have you isn't the right thing for a believer to be doing.

A believer is a 'dead man walking' and not of this earth anyways, so there is never any justification for doing the wrong thing.

Along those lines, this is what finally convinced my dad:

Here's a snippet. Gotta read the whole thing.

TODAY'S CHRISTIANS: NO HOPE IN GOD'S WAY

By Chuck Baldwin July 9, 2008 http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin455.htm

*snip*

Most everyone, including Christian people, realize that our country is in a mess. They readily agree that a divine healing is needed. They even use the great stories and examples of the Bible to teach our boys and girls how to obey and trust God. They extol the examples of Daniel, the three Hebrew children, Simon Peter and the Apostles, etc. They use these stories to illustrate the importance of putting obedience to God and God's principles above the machinations and demands of men.

When it comes to voting for and supporting candidates who have proven themselves to be unfaithful to the fundamental principles of liberty and good government, however, these same Christians suddenly become enamored with "the lesser of two evils," and pragmatism. Doing right gives way to being "practical," and standing for principle gives way to "not throwing my vote away."

Had Daniel been "practical," he would have stopped praying for a few weeks and stayed out of the lions' den. Had the three Hebrew children been "pragmatic," they would have given a symbolic bow to the statue of Nebuchadnezzar. And I can just hear Christians living in the First Century talking about how they would vote for Nero over Caligula, as he would be "the lesser of two evils."



What i have been doing is pointing out when the media and politicians clearly are making a point that is intended to just attack the other side to angry the bases. I hope its catching on.

You know your parental units best, but the only success with my mom & dad that I had was through our mutual faith -I called 'em on it.

Very dicey -nobody likes being wrong -especially the Fox viewers.

My folks have made it clear that will never again vote for the lesser of two evils, and they support the message of liberty full on these days, BUT, Fox is still on at their house.

Their guilty pleasure. With those two I don't know if I would ever had been successful with a Nolan chart. :D

[Zippyjuan]

You can't change your parent's political views any more than they can change yours. The best is to recognize your own political divide and be understanding of their views. Follow your mom's guidance to be tolerant of their opinions.

[robert9712000]

Just tell them the verse in the bible that says

Mathew 7

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Just because a person makes a point to say lord lord lord doesn't make them good,I respect Ron Paul more for his faith because he doesn't try to pander it out too people in a attempt to get votes from the church's people.

If she wants to vote for Godly people,tell her too judge them by there fruits.

Paul is always truthful and meek, while Romney lies and cheats.By your fruits is your heart known.

[BSU kid]

I also look at my anarcho-liberal "friends" and it is amazing how similar they are to RP on many issues, but again they put a brick wall up when I try to talk to them about it.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Agreed bro. You should see my facebook timeline, a bunch of people praising like goons to the Obama/DNC gods. Its all just a big turn off. I just dont care about this political process anymore, live my life as free as possible, and always promote liberty.

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

It would be nice to have a well produced and engaging documentary specifically dedicated to addressing the false left right paradigm.

Hello. Try sharing this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF6Dt7SS_yw


From the movie The Obama Deception. It only has 11.1 million views.

linky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw)

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

Oh, and if you don't like Alex-Jones-flavored truth, how about this well-aged vintage truth from back in the 1930's?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF8ubb01FBA&feature=related

[Pericles]

I think those suggestions are well intentioned, but unlikely to sway someone who is convinced that the GOP is correct.

I'd suggest the following approach - should the governemnt obey the Constitution? is a question most Republicans reply to in the affirmative. next question - Is the department of education constitutional? (Again non threatening in teaching a concept) When are Republicans going to eliminate the department of education? Since all spending bills have to originate in the House, at any time the Republicans controlled the House, they could restrain and shrink governemnt. Why don't they do it?

See what they have to say to that.

[AuH20]

Oh, and if you don't like Alex-Jones-flavored truth, how about this well-aged vintage truth from back in the 1930's?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF8ubb01FBA&feature=related

Like Father Coughlin, the most threatening politicians are smeared as being intolerant extremists since the system cannot refute the facts they are armed with:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYtti8MzvBk



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-TdN8fRRdA

At the 6:30 mark the legendary governor of Utah talks about removing the Federal Government as the prime tax collector and expounds upon a more local, much less oppressive approach. Lee was one of Murray Rothbard's favorite politicians:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0NfqHMs5NE

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

I think those suggestions are well intentioned, but unlikely to sway someone who is convinced that the GOP is correct.

I'd suggest the following approach - should the governemnt obey the Constitution? is a question most Republicans reply to in the affirmative. next question - Is the department of education constitutional? (Again non threatening in teaching a concept) When are Republicans going to eliminate the department of education? Since all spending bills have to originate in the House, at any time the Republicans controlled the House, they could restrain and shrink governemnt. Why don't they do it?

See what they have to say to that.

That is an excellent argument; consider it entered into my mental hard drive for quick reproduction when appropriate. Thank you!

[nobody's_hero]

I feel the same way. This country is very divided. I recently posted on a neocon blog that we should perhaps re-examine what made Reagan's candidacy so successful—which is to say that we should have a republican form of government so that California can do what Californians want and Texas can do what Texas wants (basically we don't have to fight over every issue at the Federal level) and I was run off the comments section.

The only thing that gives me hope is that young people just don't care. Not that they don't care about their country, but they just don't care enough about politics to vote to tell others what to do with their lives. God bless 'em.

[DrHendricks]

I know exactly what the OP is talking about. I spent this last summer at home and managed to educate my parents on Ron Paul and the virtues of his policies. After one month back at school, I returned home one weekend to discover that one month of Fox News had them fully in the Romney camp. We got into a disagreement over Iran and my father stated firmly that Iran was too dangerous and had to be dealt with militarily. I was really disappointed to say the least. However, the next morning I had my dad watch a Michael Scheuer youtube vid on Mideast foreign policy. Within 20 minutes, he had one of those "lightbulb on" moments and says "I think Ron Paul is right, they hate us because we are over there."

What I learned was that trying to confront people on their beliefs especially those that have been ingrained for the majority of their lives is really difficult. The best way for people to see through the matrix is for them to discover it on their own instead of trying to convince or persuade them to your views. So now I send my parents emails with video links and articles everyday in order for them to discover the left-right paradigm, blowback, etc.

[muzzled dogg]

Too strong the divide in this country is

[Keith and stuff]

I recently moved to Texas so i could save up some money for my move to NH...This is the kind of crap i have to deal with when just trying to explain how both parties are responsible for taking away our freedoms.

Awesome! Hurry home to New Hampshire, we could use your help :)

[torchbearer]

You can't change your parent's political views any more than they can change yours. The best is to recognize your own political divide and be understanding of their views. Follow your mom's guidance to be tolerant of their opinions.

i've converted all of my immediate family and half my extended family thus far...
perhaps refining ones arguments could help.

[shane77m]

From some of the things I have read on various posts and websites I wonder if the divide in the liberty movement is too strong?

[Mr. Perfidy]

I pretty much rank all politically minded people into "people who smoke weed" and "people who don't know shit about freedom." The people in the first camp are united behind the idea that the government hates them and wants to hurt them over nothing, while the people in the second camp generally relate to the police state apparatus and identify with its aims in the name of "safety." hahaha

[FindLiberty]

The only thing that gives me hope is that young people just don't care. Not that they don't care about their country, but they just don't care enough about politics to vote to tell others what to do with their lives. God bless 'em.

...re-examine what made Reagan's candidacy so successful...

lol,

I just hope all those young people become Libertarians before they start to "care".

Remember, Reagan was an actor (and Clinton was really slick... and a great liar).

It's all been BS (lies, bank scams and Ponzi schemes) for a very, very long time.
After Guglielmo Marconi invented the Radio, it helped the BS spread even faster.

There are several great resource suggestions in this thread. People (family!) act
funny right after they wake/step out of the Matrix. It might take months or years,
so don't go too fast. Then, bake 'em some treats like the Oracle did in the movie
for Neo to eat, before he found out, that too was a scam. Peel the onion very slowly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3babyGdnoM