PDA

View Full Version : What's Next for the Liberty Movement - Tom Woods




libertygrl
09-04-2012, 01:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgb3VBuMgl0&feature=g-all-u


http://www.tomwoods.com/afterpaul/

realtonygoodwin
09-04-2012, 01:57 PM
Could I get the executive level summary? I am unable to hear this currently. Thanks!

jmdrake
09-04-2012, 02:13 PM
Could I get the executive level summary? I am unable to hear this currently. Thanks!

Go http://tomwoods.com/afterpaul to discuss what the liberty movement should do next. Also consider going to Libertyfest.

realtonygoodwin
09-04-2012, 02:15 PM
Cool, thanks!

jmdrake
09-04-2012, 02:16 PM
Also consider going to Libertyfest. http://lfnyc.com

Unlike some people we don't demonize and denigrate certain decent people in the liberty movement by calling them names. We welcome everybody.

AGRP
09-04-2012, 02:29 PM
There is no "next." Ron Paul has always been about promoting the message of liberty.

LibertyEagle
09-04-2012, 02:33 PM
Pot shot, Tom. Now, if that "decent person" wouldn't claim that another person beat his wife, amongst other colorful things, perhaps that wouldn't sound so hypocritical.

aclove
09-04-2012, 02:35 PM
Tom's a great guy, but from the comments on the video (which I can't watch at work), it amounts to more of the, "Don't spank your kids, buy organic food for Liberty" stuff. Which is fine, but my take on that is this: if you don't want to spank your kids, good for you. If you want to buy organic local food, good for you. But don't kid yourself that this is some kind of activism. It isn't. It's your personal lifestyle choice. Overpaying for squash at a farmer's market and calling it activism smacks of self-indulgence and self-congratulatory preening.

If you don't want to engage in political activism, fine, then don't. Just don't call yourself an activist for doing whatever you were going to do anyway.

The Gold Standard
09-04-2012, 02:39 PM
Pot shot, Tom. Now, if that "decent person" wouldn't claim that another person beat his wife, amongst other colorful things, perhaps that wouldn't sound so hypocritical.

What if the guy really did beat his wife?

jmdrake
09-04-2012, 02:39 PM
Pot shot, Tom. Now, if that "decent person" wouldn't claim that another person beat his wife, amongst other colorful things, perhaps that wouldn't sound so hypocritical.

I took Tom's statement as defending the organizers of PF, and not Adam Kokesh. And Tom could have been talking about himself as he's been on the outs from the campaign for some time. I don't think Tom is defending Kokesh.

jmdrake
09-04-2012, 02:41 PM
Tom's a great guy, but from the comments on the video (which I can't watch at work), it amounts to more of the, "Don't spank your kids, buy organic food for Liberty" stuff. Which is fine, but my take on that is this: if you don't want to spank your kids, good for you. If you want to buy organic local food, good for you. But don't kid yourself that this is some kind of activism. It isn't. It's your personal lifestyle choice. Overpaying for squash at a farmer's market and calling it activism smacks of self-indulgence and self-congratulatory preening.

If you don't want to engage in political activism, fine, then don't. Just don't call yourself an activist for doing whatever you were going to do anyway.

The video is all about political activism. It's all about what to do next. Okay, some folks may post non political stuff. And? Here at RPF people talk about "health freedom" and learning how to use a firearm and all sorts of stuff that isn't political activism. That doesn't mean they aren't political activists.

jmdrake
09-04-2012, 02:43 PM
What if the guy really did beat his wife?

Irrelevant since:

A) Tom Woods has never to my knowledge made that claim.
B) No credible evidence has come forward to support that claim.
C) Tom Woods has never to my knowledge defended Adam Kokesh.

LibertyEagle
09-04-2012, 03:04 PM
What if the guy really did beat his wife?

What if he didn't? You don't go around accusing people of things like that and that is far from the only thing that Adam did.

LibertyEagle
09-04-2012, 03:05 PM
I took Tom's statement as defending the organizers of PF, and not Adam Kokesh. And Tom could have been talking about himself as he's been on the outs from the campaign for some time. I don't think Tom is defending Kokesh.

Ah, you may be right and if that is the case, kudos for Dr. Woods.

Occam's Banana
09-04-2012, 03:26 PM
I took Tom's statement as defending the organizers of PF, and not Adam Kokesh. And Tom could have been talking about himself as he's been on the outs from the campaign for some time. I don't think Tom is defending Kokesh.

That's how I understood it, too - as an oblique reference to that "those people are fringe/bad news" business.

Henry Hazlitt
09-05-2012, 08:40 AM
Tom Woods is asking what the Liberty Movement should do after the campaign. He is requesting ideas,comments,answers for the upcoming Libertyfest in New York.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgb3VBuMgl0&feature=plcp

If you have any idea that hasn't been mentioned or simply want to support one strategy over the other then post your answer on Tom's page:

http://www.tomwoods.com/afterpaul/

My take
1. Education
Education through the Mises Institute and Liberty Classroom and similar institutions. I think Ron Paul libertarians are already a lot brighter than their opposition in any other grass roots so this battle is already being won. Although the new batch of RP supporters that came during 2012 campaign has to do the same amount of research that those started earlier did.

2. Politics
My first point seems to always be the fall back position for libertarians. Many have argued that running for national political seats is hopeless because the establishment(ES) candidates have the money, media and the intellectuals on their side and that it is therefore impossible to win many seats and even harder to stay pure, with corrupting climate that exists in Washington. All of this is true since the public agrees with the establishment politicians(even if they hate one group or the other). In either case the ES can always find a political outside like Obama and present him as somebody who is going to change things. For evidence that the public will be fooled by this strategy just take a look at Carter who came in on the same platform.

However this doesn't mean that all is lost in politics. Ron Paul's old staff economist and friend Gary North has outlined the correct plan for political mobilization. Namely that because of the spotlight of the ES getting anything done at the national level is hard and instead a strategy of local control should be in place. RP people should get in at the ground floor and win in that way. Here libertarians have an advantage and they don't have to battle the establishment money,media, intellectuals for the simple reason that the establishment only cares about Washington.
Some might argue "there is no power to change at the local level because the states,counties,etc have been bought off" which is true but once America goes bankrupt as RP(and many free market economists predict) then the power of Washington rescinds and then playingfield is levelled considerably. It is a lot easier for the establishment to win in Washington because it is their home town but it is an altogether different ball game when power goes from 1 city to 50 states and many more counties. Gary North has formulated the plan better than I ever could so in case you're wondering here is the plan:

http://teapartyeconomist.com/2012/04/09/why-ron-paul-should-not-run-as-a-third-party-candidate/

Bastiat's The Law
09-05-2012, 11:06 AM
If it ain't broke don't fix it. Keep winning!

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/maysville-online.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/13/313e6eb8-6e85-5a87-9a40-59f1b2bbc225/4fbd5129aae6e.image.jpg

http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20120808&Category=POLITICS01&ArtNo=208080367&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0&Newcomer-Bentivolio-wins-will-face-Taj

sailingaway
09-05-2012, 11:09 AM
I don't have an answer yet, but I am concerned that if Ron moves out of the limelight the principles that galvanized people will be less of a focus and people will drift away.

I'm hoping Ron will stick around in some capacity, but over time we need to figure out a way to keep those principles in view, imho.

Some think it is too high a standard, but I think it is what keeps people engaged.

Keith and stuff
09-05-2012, 11:15 AM
This that video has been posted multiple times, I'll take this opportunity to state the obvious. After the election, people should continue to build themselves up as well known in the community in a positive way. People should still look for other well known, pro-liberty folks in the community and encourage them to run for office. People should continue lobbying their elected legislators.

It never changes and this election isn't anything special.

If you have been trying this strategy for years where you live and liberty isn't increasing in your area, consider moving to somewhere that the strategy actually works.

FSP-Rebel
09-05-2012, 12:32 PM
If you have been trying this strategy for years where you live and liberty isn't increasing in your area, consider moving to somewhere that the strategy actually works.
Right, if people think they are just spinning their wheels in their area and/or don't want to spend their time restoring their local and state GOPs I would urge them to take a look at the Free State Project (http://www.freestateproject.org). In NH for sure, you don't have the local or state party bucking libertarians and about a third of the state house is libertarian-republican, increasing every election. Plus, the more people that move prior to '16, the more extra votes and activism that can go towards Rand in the early state voting which could help offset any Rubio or Christie media support. That said, I'm doing fine in my local and state activism and can see tangible results and more to come but I'm still committed to the FSP once they get all the signers the goal specifies. However, the early movers are seeing plenty of great results that makes the FSP more than just a good idea.

Anti Federalist
09-05-2012, 12:34 PM
I concur.

If you can, move to where you voice will make a difference.

Join the FSP


This that video has been posted multiple times, I'll take this opportunity to state the obvious. After the election, people should continue to build themselves up as well known in the community in a positive way. People should still look for other well known, pro-liberty folks in the community and encourage them to run for office. People should continue lobbying their elected legislators.

It never changes and this election isn't anything special.

If you have been trying this strategy for years where you live and liberty isn't increasing in your area, consider moving to somewhere that the strategy actually works.


Right, if people think they are just spinning their wheels in their area and/or don't want to spend their time restoring their local and state GOPs I would urge them to take a look at the Free State Project (http://www.freestateproject.org). In NH for sure, you don't have the local or state party bucking libertarians and about a third of the state house is libertarian-republican, increasing every election. Plus, the more people that move prior to '16, the more extra votes and activism that can go towards Rand in the early state voting which could help offset any Rubio or Christie media support. That said, I'm doing fine in my local and state activism and can see tangible results and more to come but I'm still committed to the FSP once they get all the signers the goal specifies. However, the early movers are seeing plenty of great results that makes the FSP more than just a good idea.

Carlybee
09-05-2012, 12:49 PM
I don't believe you can be a libertarian and a republican. I don't have a clue what to do but I feel given the direction this forum is taking that I won't be here long to discuss it. There is simply no place for those of us who reject the GOP and not that thrilled with the LP either.

sailingaway
09-05-2012, 12:51 PM
I don't believe you can be a libertarian and a republican. I don't have a clue what to do but I feel given the direction this forum is taking that I won't be here long to discuss it. There is simply no place for those of us who reject the GOP and not that thrilled with the LP either.

Stick around and see. I agree there needs to be room for those who support Ron and his principles but not necessarily a particular project. I don't think we know the form this will all end up in, but I'd be really disappointed if we lost that.

Mr. Perfidy
09-05-2012, 12:52 PM
Community Organization

Individual liberty cannot be defended or advanced except on a social, community scale- the original American Republic relied on community networks of families to protect each other's interests. Now, these networks are gone. The original economy created these networks, because people's productive behavior was all inter-connected. Now, no such connections exist in a population. I make pizza, my neighbor is a nurse, another a security guard, and none of us ever ask for or require each other's economic services. At least not in a way where each depends on the other in order for his respective function to perform.

So, we need to organize a new tribalism, that will link communities together and make them depend on each other's merits and contributions.

Natural Health

One such unifying network can be developed around physical health; we are a nation of slobby fat-asses and lazy sedentary couch-riders. Excercising on your own kinda sucks, and people who start it tend to fail and give up. Excercise in a social context is more successful, because we are tribal monkeys who used to run and hunt and fight alongside each other, relying on each other for support. We have to organize a fitness club for Liberty people who will meet regularly for the purpose of reinvigorating their bodies, under the leadership of qualified, physically fit individuals, with the built-in option of teaming this with self-defense instruction.

Additionally, our food is toxic, and people are waking up to this. Also, it is not yet a partisan issue. Democrats and Republicans alike can agree without feeling the stinging shame of Party heresy that we need to take a more active role in our food choices. We need to organize a Nutrition club for Liberty people who will seek bulk-rate savings on real food, coordinate trips to distant and periodic farmers' markets, and distribute information about how to most effectively and cheaply do this.

The Expansion of Consciousness

this is a drive that is common in many personality types and especially important to the young. The philosophers and writers among us need a venue for their ranting- look at how popular the forum is for many people, and how much of themselves they invest in spreading their message! We need a new Liberty University as it were: we need to organize local Liberty scholarship, so that everyone with an informed opinion can submit his paper or argument to a single archive, accessible to all interested parties. Then when college kids want to do papers on economic or political or social topics, they can come to our libraries, and read the papers of our own researchers. They will contribute their own for the same reason that this Forum is still going strong.

The intellectual leaders of this kind of activism will necessarily form their own little clusters of intellectuals, who will organize their own projects aimed at expanding the consciousness of the masses- information distribution, for example, in the form of magazines and websites maybe. Who knows though what our best and brightest will come up with? Something awesome I am sure.

Culture

The marxist march of history continues unchallenged largely because "the Right" (neocon sham) is largely regarded as an enemy of fun, while the Left is generally accepted as the cool party kid culture. Why are blunts, drums, hip-hop, and dub-step a largely Democratic stronghold?! The liberty people I know are from this cultural extraction! We need a Culture War! Liberty people need to organize Record Labels and music tours, as well as Fashion Lines and screen-print shops to flood the market with both the message and examples of our superior artistic creativity.

Mr. Perfidy
09-05-2012, 12:57 PM
I have been dancing around this issue for a long time because I don't want it to run away from me, but fuck it. What we need is a Block Party. Believe Lies or Choose Knowledge!

It must be a-partisan and ostensibly not interested in electoral politics, but rather cultural reinvigoration; as I said in my Climate of Fear thread, the problem is not that nobody knows, it is that they are AFRAID TO ADMIT IT! This fear is the result of being an atomized, solitary, disconnected, powerless little primate in a sea of formidable aristocratic controllers. We have to organize so as to make people feel like they are safely immersed in a new mass, among their own people. new music for new ears!

as the government bankruptcy sets in and affects State grants, the populations reliant on them will be lost and angered and scared. We need to start now creating community-based services that are currently monopolized by government- Liberty Day Care, Liberty Transit, Liberty food-assistance, etc.

Keith and stuff
09-05-2012, 01:04 PM
I don't believe you can be a libertarian and a republican. I don't have a clue what to do but I feel given the direction this forum is taking that I won't be here long to discuss it. There is simply no place for those of us who reject the GOP and not that thrilled with the LP either.

I am confused. I don't understand what you were trying to say. You can be a libertarian, a Libertarian, a republican and a Republican at the same time. BTW, all 4 of those words have different meanings.

Anti Federalist
09-05-2012, 01:34 PM
Josh suggests the answer lies in SCIENCE!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IlHgbOWj4o

FSP-Rebel
09-05-2012, 01:50 PM
I don't believe you can be a libertarian and a republican.
Over and over in article after article I see Ron being labeled the libertarian-leaning republican from TX. You just don't want anything to do with the term "republican" and that's your prerogative. I can't help that besides doing my part to get better republicans elected and better people in the leadership roles of state parties. I certainly understand your discontent at the way the RNC put us over a barrel but taking it and letting them get away with it isn't my style. Perseverance is a virtue.

Edward
09-05-2012, 01:55 PM
Q: What do you think that needs to be done after the election?
A: Invest in survivalist gear.

MrWalker
09-05-2012, 01:56 PM
Tom Woods is asking what the Liberty Movement should do after the campaign. He is requesting ideas,comments,answers for the upcoming Libertyfest in New York.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgb3VBuMgl0&feature=plcp

If you have any idea that hasn't been mentioned or simply want to support one strategy over the other then post your answer on Tom's page:

http://www.tomwoods.com/afterpaul/

My take
1. Education
Education through the Mises Institute and Liberty Classroom and similar institutions. I think Ron Paul libertarians are already a lot brighter than their opposition in any other grass roots so this battle is already being won. Although the new batch of RP supporters that came during 2012 campaign has to do the same amount of research that those started earlier did.

2. Politics
My first point seems to always be the fall back position for libertarians. Many have argued that running for national political seats is hopeless because the establishment(ES) candidates have the money, media and the intellectuals on their side and that it is therefore impossible to win many seats and even harder to stay pure, with corrupting climate that exists in Washington. All of this is true since the public agrees with the establishment politicians(even if they hate one group or the other). In either case the ES can always find a political outside like Obama and present him as somebody who is going to change things. For evidence that the public will be fooled by this strategy just take a look at Carter who came in on the same platform.

However this doesn't mean that all is lost in politics. Ron Paul's old staff economist and friend Gary North has outlined the correct plan for political mobilization. Namely that because of the spotlight of the ES getting anything done at the national level is hard and instead a strategy of local control should be in place. RP people should get in at the ground floor and win in that way. Here libertarians have an advantage and they don't have to battle the establishment money,media, intellectuals for the simple reason that the establishment only cares about Washington.
Some might argue "there is no power to change at the local level because the states,counties,etc have been bought off" which is true but once America goes bankrupt as RP(and many free market economists predict) then the power of Washington rescinds and then playingfield is levelled considerably. It is a lot easier for the establishment to win in Washington because it is their home town but it is an altogether different ball game when power goes from 1 city to 50 states and many more counties. Gary North has formulated the plan better than I ever could so in case you're wondering here is the plan:

http://teapartyeconomist.com/2012/04/09/why-ron-paul-should-not-run-as-a-third-party-candidate/

Education is fine, but shouldnt it be on Tomas Jefferson and his republicanism instead of Mises. You are republicans first hand right?

Maltheus
09-05-2012, 02:00 PM
We'll never get anywhere unless we work to hasten the decline of the main stream media, and start coming up with viable, professional alternatives. It all starts with where people get their information. No point trying to change the political environment until we get ahold of that first.

Then I'd like to see a focus on trying to come up with a "consensus platform" that we can use to transcend parties. A common set of principles, shared by many on both the right and the left (like don't bail out the banks or private business, restoring civil liberties, etc). Something that nobody but high level establishment types could possibly object to. Then work on promoting its adoption with as many parties as we can. It undermines the party system, while getting people to focus on ideas again.

CPUd
09-05-2012, 02:12 PM
I don't believe you can be a libertarian and a republican. I don't have a clue what to do but I feel given the direction this forum is taking that I won't be here long to discuss it. There is simply no place for those of us who reject the GOP and not that thrilled with the LP either.

It's possible. As long as the ones we look to put in office are "Ron Paul Republicans".

Carlybee
09-05-2012, 03:28 PM
It's possible. As long as the ones we look to put in office are "Ron Paul Republicans".

There seems to be some ambiguity involved. For example I am anti-war. I could never compromise there. I take the LP stance on abortion even though I understand the Republican stance. I don't see being able to sway the establishment to giving up their war stance therefore I could not support their official platform...and that's just a small example of large differences.

sailingaway
09-05-2012, 03:34 PM
There seems to be some ambiguity involved. For example I am anti-war. I could never compromise there. I take the LP stance on abortion even though I understand the Republican stance. I don't see being able to sway the establishment to giving up their war stance therefore I could not support their official platform...and that's just a small example of large differences.

We may not always agree on candidates. In a presidential election that matters more. In 2010, people just worked on different campaigns, but coordinated here. I'd love to see BJ run for a seat in a better district. And Gunny.