MN - "If I never saw another police officer again, I would be happy."

[Anti Federalist]

Says the mother of a young, unarmed man, gunned down by cops.

Apparently, this kid was being held hostage in some kind of standoff, a robbery or drug deal gone bad perhaps, and escapes.

He manages to escape and run for his life, but doesn't make it past the enforcers, who cut him to ribbons.


Parents angry after Minn. police shoot unarmed son

Updated 2:46 p.m., Sunday, September 2, 2012

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Parents-angry-after-Minn-police-shoot-unarmed-son-3835039.php

WOODBURY, Minn. (AP) — The parents of a St. Paul man said they were outraged that officers gunned down their unarmed son early Friday as he fled a hotel room where a gunman was holding seven people hostage.

They shot my son down like a dog," said Tawana Henderson, the mother of 19-year-old Mark Eric Henderson. "... If I never saw another police officer again, I would be happy."

The state Bureau of Criminal Apprehension is investigating the circumstances behind Henderson's death. He was shot several times as he ran from a room at a Red Roof Inn in Woodbury that's notorious for criminal activity.

The victim's father, Mark Henderson Sr., told the Minneapolis Star Tribune he was especially upset that three officers all fired at his son.

"If (suspects) don't have a gun, aren't they trained not to shoot?" he asked.

Henderson was one of nine people in the room early Friday. The suspect, a 24-year-old from Maplewood, is being held in the Washington County Jail on suspicion of criminal sexual conduct, aggravated robbery and kidnapping. He is expected to be charged in coming days.

"We know there was a lot of criminal activity that was going on inside that hotel room — serious criminal activity," Police Chief Lee Vague said. "We know people were assaulted."

He said investigators were still trying to piece together precisely what happened. The BCA said Mark Henderson had quickly emerged from the room and rushed toward them. Police believed he had a weapon, and when he refused officers' commands, they fired, the BCA said.

BCA spokeswoman Jill Oliveira said it wasn't clear exactly what commands police issued. She said that was under investigation. The three officers who fired their weapons were put on paid administrative leave, which is standard.

Tawana Henderson said any gunshots under those circumstances were inappropriate.

"In a hostage situation, you don't just open fire," she said.

The victim's sister, Ashley Henderson, told the St. Paul Pioneer Press she wanted people to know her brother wasn't a bad person.

"He didn't deserve to die like this, trying to save his own life," she said. "And he's never coming back."

[aGameOfThrones]

BCA spokeswoman Jill Oliveira said it wasn't clear exactly what commands police issued.

Stop...

http://gifsoup.com/download.php?id=2112493&d=animatedgifs3&n=i-am-the-law&s=o

[XNavyNuke]

Doesn't matter what commands the police issued at this point. Without so much as an investigation yet the prosecutor says that killing the hostage is a good thing and that the local LEO's deserve a case of beer. Yet another un-freedom candidate to look out for in future elections. I'm sure he will get the LEO unions to vote for him though.

12:42 p.m. UPDATE: Cops appear justified in shooting, county attorney says (http://www.woodburybulletin.com/event/article/id/41855/group/homepage/)

Be quick with your browser stop button before the login comes up.


Washington County Attorney Pete Orput said his prosecutors will likely be working over the weekend in concert with investigators on the case. He said possible charges wouldn’t be filed until next week.

...

Orput said he will personally review the case of the officers involved in the shooting, but said early indications were that the shooting was justified.

“I’m satisfied that what I’ve heard sounds like the cops did the right thing,” he said. “I’m anxious to review that.

“I’m looking forward to getting them a case of beer for their efforts and getting them back on the streets.”

XNN

[tod evans]

Get a rope!:mad:

[PaulConventionWV]

So would I, random woman from Minnesota, so would I.

[TheTexan]

That's fucked up

[Yieu]

Since when is killing a clearly innocent man who was not threatening, no matter if the cops "thought" he was "suspect", considered "justified" in any manner, worthy of praise, or worthy of buying the murderers a beer?

Imagine if the three murderers were not cops, and used the same "it's coming right for us!" arguments that the cops use to justify cold blooded murder. How many years would they get?

"Qualified" immunity being applied when justice should be applied will cause many people to lose trust in those groups who are known to regularly get away with murder.

[truelies]

These thugs AND their Masters deserve to be treated as the common enemies of humanity, as wolves are.

[Yieu]

Why would the County Attorney be "satisfied" that they murdered someone? Why would he be anxious to exonerate them? Shouldn't he be reviewing this in an unbiased manner? Or are his desires to see the cops remain unharmed by justice manipulating the outcome of the "investigation"? Is it really an investigation if it is being conducted by entities which have a favorable bias toward the cops over the People? Why is it an investigation instead of a court case? This is the kind of corruption the cops know exists in the court system which allows them to get away with murder.

[tod evans]

Aw come on you guys...... It's a team sport, let's go serve up some "Just-Us" and then we'll go have a beer.....

[angelatc]

Doesn't matter what commands the police issued at this point. Without so much as an investigation yet the prosecutor says that killing the hostage is a good thing and that the local LEO's deserve a case of beer. Yet another un-freedom candidate to look out for in future elections. I'm sure he will get the LEO unions to vote for him though.

12:42 p.m. UPDATE: Cops appear justified in shooting, county attorney says (http://www.woodburybulletin.com/event/article/id/41855/group/homepage/)

Be quick with your browser stop button before the login comes up.



XNN

I'd be launching the recall position tomorrow. We elect these people to protect us, not cops. A case of beer. Seriously?

[Yieu]

I'd be launching the recall position tomorrow. We elect these people to protect us, not cops. A case of beer. Seriously?

He clearly deserves the recall, but the problem may be deeper, the us (cops, courts) vs. them (the People) mentality may be an issue of culture.

[coastie]

I'd be launching the recall position tomorrow. We elect these people to protect us, not cops. A case of beer. Seriously?

Seriously. Then, at Chili's, they'll all hi-five and sit around and get drunk and brag about who hit the target the most.

Then, they'll talk about he deserved it for daring to "scare" them like that, and how they'll shoot anyone else that dares do it again.

[Philhelm]

You know, with all of these stories I'm always surprised by the family members' reactions. Granted, the media edits content, but if I had a son (or dog, for that matter) that was executed by filthy pigs, I'd be openly calling for a Jihad on their soon-to-be-dead asses.

[Philhelm]

Seriously. Then, at Chili's, they'll all hi-five and sit around and get drunk and brag about who hit the target the most.

Then, they'll talk about he deserved it for daring to "scare" them like that, and how they'll shoot anyone else that dares do it again.

Wait...cops are fearless, right?

[coastie]

Wait...cops are fearless, right?

Well, of course. Because they can blow away anything that disagrees with their assessment of that reality.;)

[tod evans]

Well, of course. Because they can blow away anything that disagrees with their assessment of that reality with impunity.;)

Fixed it for you..

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Why would the County Attorney be "satisfied" that they ...

County Attorney works for the "county," not residents of the county.

[XNavyNuke]

County Attorney works for the "county," not residents of the county.

At the pleasure of the county, which is why the county commissioners (or local equivalent) should have been out in front of a mic 15 minutes after they heard this comment by their jackwad prosecutor.

XNN

[phill4paul]

Beers all around at the 'Combat Quals' ceremony!

[Travlyr]

"Red Roof Inn in Woodbury that's notorious for criminal activity."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE3oiKuU8UI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE3oiKuU8UI

Red Roof Inn is/was owned by the Federal Reserve.

[John F Kennedy III]

That is so fucked up.

[TheTexan]

"Red Roof Inn in Woodbury that's notorious for criminal activity."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE3oiKuU8UI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE3oiKuU8UI

Red Roof Inn is/was owned by the Federal Reserve.

Who's that douchebag at the end who's trying to clean his hands of the whole presentation

[angelatc]

You know, with all of these stories I'm always surprised by the family members' reactions. Granted, the media edits content, but if I had a son (or dog, for that matter) that was executed by filthy pigs, I'd be openly calling for a Jihad on their soon-to-be-dead asses.

Yes, but your friends and family would all tell you that it was a bad idea. If the talk continued one of them would turn you in. I have never had reason to hunt down another human, but I suspect that if you went to a private detective and asked him to help you find where one of them loved, at best he would turn down the assignment.

They don't have listed phone numbers for a reason.

[TheTexan]

You know, with all of these stories I'm always surprised by the family members' reactions. Granted, the media edits content, but if I had a son (or dog, for that matter) that was executed by filthy pigs, I'd be openly calling for a Jihad on their soon-to-be-dead asses.

In most cases, the victim's family disgustingly finds a way to be apologizers for their own family's murderers... its sick, truly.

But not this woman.

[susano]

This has been going on for so many years!!! Every thread, at the many forums I frequent, addressing these abuses of power and murder by state, is full of posts about how we have to do something, or start killing them back (the only thing they would understand, imho), or get them prosecuted (LMAO), and, of course, nothing happens and it just gets worse.

One friend of mine, who a common law expert, told me the only way to change things, at the local level (which is the only hope), is to control three offices: Sheriff, the DA and the Registrar of Deeds. Perhaps this would be a serious goal for liberty activists to get behind. Wouldn't that be a lot more attainable than working to change things at the national, or even state, level?

[Travlyr]

This has been going on for so many years!!! Every thread, at the many forums I frequent, addressing these abuses of power and murder by state, is full of posts about how we have to do something, or start killing them back (the only thing they would understand, imho), or get them prosecuted (LMAO), and, of course, nothing happens and it just gets worse.

One friend of mine, who a common law expert, told me the only way to change things, at the local level (which is the only hope), is to control three offices: Sheriff, the DA and the Registrar of Deeds. Perhaps this would be a serious goal for liberty activists to get behind. Wouldn't that be a lot more attainable than working to change things at the national, or even state, level?
+ rep

That is how we win.

[Anti Federalist]

This has been going on for so many years!!! Every thread, at the many forums I frequent, addressing these abuses of power and murder by state, is full of posts about how we have to do something, or start killing them back (the only thing they would understand, imho), or get them prosecuted (LMAO), and, of course, nothing happens and it just gets worse.

One friend of mine, who a common law expert, told me the only way to change things, at the local level (which is the only hope), is to control three offices: Sheriff, the DA and the Registrar of Deeds. Perhaps this would be a serious goal for liberty activists to get behind. Wouldn't that be a lot more attainable than working to change things at the national, or even state, level?

It was a buddy of mine raising hell at my local police commission meetings that I first learned of the CFC.

I concur, which is why I want the FSP to succeed.

ETA - And fully informed juries. Just had a call the other day from a good friend of mine, (I've posted some of our email exchanges) who was seated on a jury, trying a case of "driving to endanger" and "reckless driving".

Long story short, it was only on the word one busy body, more than likely MADD mother, buttinsky old lady that the accused was going to lose his license, livelihood and likely his home.

The evidence showed that he could not have driven the way the witness claimed he did.

My friend, to his credit, went into a "12 Angry Men" jury deliberation, held out for acquittal and convinced them all to acquit.

Good for him.

ETA - If you have not ever seen "12 Angry Men", do so, now!

[susano]

+ rep

That is how we win.

I hope that you who are active in the movement (things in my life, currently, prevent me being able to) can drive this message home to the larger movement. County by county is the only path to regaining freedom and it's much more doable than taking on bigger tasks.


It was a buddy of mine raising hell at my local police commission meetings that I first learned of the CFC.

I concur, which is why I want the FSP to succeed.

What are CFC and SFP?


ETA - And fully informed juries. Just had a call the other day from a good friend of mine, (I've posted some of our email exchanges) who was seated on a jury, trying a case of "driving to endanger" and "reckless driving".

Long story short, it was only on the word one busy body, more than likely MADD mother, buttinsky old lady that the accused was going to lose his license, livelihood and likely his home.

The evidence showed that he could not have driven the way the witness claimed he did.

My friend, to his credit, went into a "12 Angry Men" jury deliberation, held out for acquittal and convinced them all to acquit.

Good for him.

ETA - If you have not ever seen "12 Angry Men", do so, now!

Couldn't agree more on FIJA.

[Anti Federalist]

What are CFC and SFP?

Sorry about that, I had acronym overload.

CFC = Circular Force Continuum

FSP = Free State Project

[susano]

Okay, what is Circular Force Continuum?

[aGameOfThrones]

A video of a similar situation.

*Warning Graphic* (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb3_1334326282)

[Anti Federalist]

Okay, what is Circular Force Continuum?

I'm pulling some old posts of mine that explained it, but search the term "circular force continuum", it's worth it to read some of our fellow RPF members that were in LE comment on it as well.



When asked why this happening more and more:

One, is a nationwide shift in police policies that have moved responses from a vertically integrated "force continuum" to a circular one. I can't speak for all states and locales, but in my little NH town this was done at the behest of the feds through the Fed Fusion center. The real world ramifications of this are that, without any intervening action, a cop may move directly to lethal force, pretty much regardless of what force may have been used against him. All he needs to do is cite "officer safety".

Two, is a solidification of the "bunker mentality", the idea that cops are "at war" (I've posted that comment from police chiefs before) and that equates to a street attitude that roughly fleshes out to "There are only three types of people in the world, cops, cops families and scumbags".

Three, is an insurance, compensation and legal incentive to blow somebody away or taser them. Believe it or not, it costs less to the department to gun down a mundane than it does to physically wrestle them down and restrain them if they are belligerent or uncooperative if there are any injuries to either party. This was also made clear right in my little town and was corroborated by people in other towns and states that do the same thing I do, which is to say, make a PITA of myself to the local cops at police commission meetings and so on.



Another way of answering the same question:

Because there has been a change in training, coming from both above (the Feds), sideways (the towns' lawyers and insurance) and below (the union leadership).

Everything now revolves around "officer safety".

The force continuum is no longer vertical, it is circular, meaning a cop on the scene can use whatever force comes to mind as being the most effective to ensure "officer safety", neutralizing hostiles at the scene (that's us, Mundanes, citizens) and maintaining control.

Shooting the dog is perceived as the safest route for the cop, it's also the cheapest route for the town, even if a Mundane successfully sues, it's cheaper than dealing with disability and medical care for a cop that gets bit.

And that's why calling one of these people into your home is a mistake you may never recover from.

Any dealing with a LEO must be handled with deadly seriousness.

[susano]

I'm pulling some old posts of mine that explained it, but search the term "circular force continuum", it's worth it to read some of our fellow RPF members that were in LE comment on it as well.



When asked why this happening more and more:

One, is a nationwide shift in police policies that have moved responses from a vertically integrated "force continuum" to a circular one. I can't speak for all states and locales, but in my little NH town this was done at the behest of the feds through the Fed Fusion center. The real world ramifications of this are that, without any intervening action, a cop may move directly to lethal force, pretty much regardless of what force may have been used against him. All he needs to do is cite "officer safety".

Two, is a solidification of the "bunker mentality", the idea that cops are "at war" (I've posted that comment from police chiefs before) and that equates to a street attitude that roughly fleshes out to "There are only three types of people in the world, cops, cops families and scumbags".

Three, is an insurance, compensation and legal incentive to blow somebody away or taser them. Believe it or not, it costs less to the department to gun down a mundane than it does to physically wrestle them down and restrain them if they are belligerent or uncooperative if there are any injuries to either party. This was also made clear right in my little town and was corroborated by people in other towns and states that do the same thing I do, which is to say, make a PITA of myself to the local cops at police commission meetings and so on.



Another way of answering the same question:

Because there has been a change in training, coming from both above (the Feds), sideways (the towns' lawyers and insurance) and below (the union leadership).

Everything now revolves around "officer safety".

The force continuum is no longer vertical, it is circular, meaning a cop on the scene can use whatever force comes to mind as being the most effective to ensure "officer safety", neutralizing hostiles at the scene (that's us, Mundanes, citizens) and maintaining control.

Shooting the dog is perceived as the safest route for the cop, it's also the cheapest route for the town, even if a Mundane successfully sues, it's cheaper than dealing with disability and medical care for a cop that gets bit.

And that's why calling one of these people into your home is a mistake you may never recover from.

Any dealing with a LEO must be handled with deadly seriousness.

Thanks for this. I will read up on it. Another thing that they're doing is calling us, the mundanes, as you say, civilians. With all that DHS money, equipment and training, they think they're bad ass Marines. We, of course, are the enemy.

[Anti Federalist]

Thanks for this. I will read up on it. Another thing that they're doing is calling us, the mundanes, as you say, civilians. With all that DHS money, equipment and training, they think they're bad ass Marines. We, of course, are the enemy.

Yes, and I've been railing about this for years myself.

A town cop all the way up to a FBI agent is just as much a "civilian" as you or me.

[Weston White]

'Tis so prophetic:

“A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody.” ― Thomas Paine