Wanna know why we are still extremely relevant in 2012?

[ShaneEnochs]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html

That's damn close. We could tip it one way or another.

[sailingaway]

MSNBC put together the 'undecideds' from enough polls to get a representative sample, sampled them to find out who they liked, since they didn't like Romney or Obama, and found they like Ron Paul.

We ARE the undecideds.

[CaptainAmerica]

MSNBC put together the 'undecideds' from enough polls to get a representative sample, sampled them to find out who they liked, since they didn't like Romney or Obama, and found they like Ron Paul.

We ARE the undecideds. and the Romney progressives will then blame ron paul and ron paul voters alike for "re-electing" obama. Old people never like to take responsibility for what they vote into nomination

[fr33]

This is why any RP supporter that you hear/see submitting to Romney needs to be chastised and debated.

The liberty movement's weapon in politics is their vote. If we waver we become irrelevant. Romney is unacceptable. So is Obama but the theory of defeating Romney and teaching the GOP a lesson does sound good. Writing in Ron or voting Gary Johnson is better because it is an organized protest. Not voting is better than Romney but it's about effective as voting for Obama.

[affa]

and the Romney progressives will then blame ron paul and ron paul voters alike for "re-electing" obama. Old people never like to take responsibility for what they vote into nomination

Romney won't win 2012, and we will be blamed. That's pretty much the long and the short of it, regardless of what we do or say in the meantime.

[fr33]

Romney won't win 2012, and we will be blamed. That's pretty much the long and the short of it, regardless of what we do or say in the meantime.Wear it as a badge of honor. The choice of the Obamneys is a choice between 4 more years of Obama's policies or 8 more years of Obama's policies.

[ClydeCoulter]

and the Romney progressives will then blame ron paul and ron paul voters alike for "re-electing" obama. Old people never like to take responsibility for what they vote into nomination

So...............................? They will be who they will be....................so?......................... .

[ClydeCoulter]

I'm tired of trying to not offend, I'm tired of trying to be something I am not.
I'm so tired, that I got my 2nd wind in life, and I'm alive...........................FREEDOM<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[anaconda]

Romney won't win 2012, and we will be blamed. That's pretty much the long and the short of it, regardless of what we do or say in the meantime.

And if they put up a piece of excrement like Mittens in 2016, they will lose even worse. I'll be happy to take the blame in 2016 also.

[evilfunnystuff]

And if they put up a piece of excrement like Mittens in 2016, they will lose even worse. I'll be happy to take the blame in 2016 also.

this

[phill4paul]

Romney needs to lose. BIG. Better yet in October every, that is registered Republican, change your status. If allowable change to Independent or Unaffiliated. That way the party statistics fail. They see the loss. Nationally. You can always change it back for 2014.
Let them GOP know why they lost.

[WesSeid]

Romney won't win 2012, and we will be blamed. That's pretty much the long and the short of it, regardless of what we do or say in the meantime.

If the GOP wanted to win, they should have nominated someone who could win.

Neocons already don't like us, so what's the difference.

[hillertexas]

If the GOP wanted to win, they should have nominated someone who could win.

Great answer...i'm using it. +rep

[anaconda]

Romney needs to lose. BIG. Better yet in October every, that is registered Republican, change your status. If allowable change to Independent or Unaffiliated. That way the party statistics fail. They see the loss. Nationally. You can always change it back for 2014.
Let them GOP know why they lost.

I find your comment very interesting. But I want to inquire of you: might it not be equally as powerful to remain a registered Republican through November and not vote Republican? It will send a similar but slightly different message. More along the theme that Mittens couldn't even turn out his own party to vote for him? The media will do the math on the number of registered Republicans and the number of votes for Mittens and report a huge discrepancy. Why not masquerade as a rank-and-file GOP voter that was so uninspired that they simply stayed home? That seems actually more insulting than firebrand libertarians impulsively changing their party affiliation. Maybe we should wait until after the general election to officially defect.

[1000-points-of-fright]

Other than voting for Ron Paul in the primaries, I've voted for every Libertarian (or Independent) for whichever office on the ballot since I became a US citizen. I plan on doing so again in November. However, now the Libertarian party of Ohio says the GOP is bringing lawsuits to have the Gary Johnson removed from the ballot. If they succeed in removing him from the ballot I will vote for Obama and anybody (including my sweet elderly parents) who accuses me of helping Obama win will get a huge fuck you and a 30 min rant/lecture.

[wgadget]

Other than voting for Ron Paul in the primaries, I've voted for every Libertarian (or Independent) for whichever office on the ballot since I became a US citizen. I plan on doing so again in November. However, now the Libertarian party of Ohio says the GOP is bringing lawsuits to have the Gary Johnson removed from the ballot. If they succeed in removing him from the ballot I will vote for Obama and anybody (including my sweet elderly parents) who accuses me of helping Obama win will get a huge fuck you and a 30 min rant/lecture.

Hmm. GOP still screwing with us in Ohio, eh? I guess they're worried that in the swing state of OH we libertarians might have some power. Can't have that. Dirty cheating bastages.

What's their line of reasoning? I heard they're trying to pull the same thing in PA, another swing state. Or is that the Dems' doings?

[1000-points-of-fright]

Hmm. GOP still screwing with us in Ohio, eh? I guess they're worried that in the swing state of OH we libertarians might have some power. Can't have that. Dirty cheating bastages.

What's their line of reasoning? I heard they're trying to pull the same thing in PA, another swing state. Or is that the Dems' doings?

http://www.ballot-access.org/2012/08/31/two-ohio-voters-challenge-gary-johnson-ballot-status/

[wgadget]

Thanks for the link!

I hope GJ is on the OH ballot, that the OH GOP gets a deserved black eye from this, and that GJ gets even more votes because of the publicity.

And yet ANOTHER good reason for a RP/GJ ticket.

[WesSeid]

might it not be equally as powerful to remain a registered Republican through November and not vote Republican? It will send a similar but slightly different message. More along the theme that Mittens couldn't even turn out his own party to vote for him? The media will do the math on the number of registered Republicans and the number of votes for Mittens and report a huge discrepancy. Why not masquerade as a rank-and-file GOP voter that was so uninspired that they simply stayed home? That seems actually more insulting than firebrand libertarians impulsively changing their party affiliation. Maybe we should wait until after the general election to officially defect.

That's one idea. Also, if the person plans on sticking with "infiltrating the GOP" after the election, they're probably going to have to be registered as a Republican anyway.

I think which party a person is registered for is a bit secondary anyway since it's the votes that ultimately matter, but if someone thinks decent tactics and advantage can come from being registered to one party instead of another, great.

[Matt Collins]

We ARE the undecideds.No, I think a lot of us decided the instant the rules were illegally railroaded through the RNC Convention.

[Matt Collins]

Romney won't win 2012, and we will be blamed. That's pretty much the long and the short of it, regardless of what we do or say in the meantime.GOOD!!!

In 2000 Nader was asked about how he felt about costing Gore the election in Florida. He responded that next time the DNC will pay more attention to it's base. When Romney loses in 2012 the Republican Party will be forced to pay more attention to their liberty wing. Enter a possible Rand Paul run in 2016.

[sailingaway]

This is the poll where NBC combined the undecideds in a bunch of polls to get a statistical sample, asked them who they liked, and found they liked Ron Paul. We ARE the undecideds. Mind you, Matthews then describes us and our motivations unrecognizably, but it is what it is.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYJLjB4vjRk&feature=player_embedded#t=0s

[paulbot24]

Romney won't win 2012, and we will be blamed. That's pretty much the long and the short of it, regardless of what we do or say in the meantime.

Do you ever worry about the blame game when you stand up for what you KNOW is right? It might actually be refreshing to hear them blame somebody other than the other side of the coin. People might actually get used to having to factor "the others" vote? What will they do? This screws up everything! The Coke vs. Pepsi war was great! Now you want to bring in 7UP? Three choices? *Confusion* Now what to we do? Simple. We decide.

[bunklocoempire]

This is why any RP supporter that you hear/see submitting to Romney needs to be chastised and debated.
The liberty movement's weapon in politics is their vote. If we waver we become irrelevant. Romney is unacceptable. So is Obama but the theory of defeating Romney and teaching the GOP a lesson does sound good. Writing in Ron or voting Gary Johnson is better because it is an organized protest. Not voting is better than Romney but it's about effective as voting for Obama.

Bold is mine. On teh internetz, the arguement that I've been using is asking them to provide an example where doing the wrong thing/rewarding bad behavior improves a situation.

They can never give one. The party hacks yelling from the sidelines about how bad Obama is can never provide an example either. The lurkers see this and contemplate it.

[WesSeid]

People might actually get used to having to factor "the others" vote? What will they do? This screws up everything! The Coke vs. Pepsi war was great! Now you want to bring in 7UP? Three choices? *Confusion* Now what to we do? Simple. We decide.
The liberty movement: No big government. Never had it, never will.

[Ivash]

And if they put up a piece of excrement like Mittens in 2016, they will lose even worse. I'll be happy to take the blame in 2016 also.

If Obama wins in 2012, and he might not, the Republicans are going to win in 2016 unless the economy turns around (dramatically) before then. That should be obvious to anyone that knows anything about politics.

[fr33]

Bold is mine. On teh internetz, the arguement that I've been using is asking them to provide an example where doing the wrong thing/rewarding bad behavior improves a situation.

They can never give one. The party hacks yelling from the sidelines about how bad Obama is can never provide an example either. The lurkers see this and contemplate it.Yep. Here's how I win the argument every time on twitter; Romney raised corporate taxes and confiscated guns. Obama isn't even that bad.

There's no defense of it. The only real defense so far that I've received is that Obama raised taxes on smokers and tanners.

[puppetmaster]

But I thought we were supporting the hop according to sanunu and prieus.

[economics102]

Apparently to MSNBC voting for Gary Johnson or writing in Ron Paul is equivalent to "may not vote."

But yeah, people worrying that they're going to blame the Ron Paul crowd for costing Romney the nomination...we should be so lucky. If anything, they will in the end try to avoid blaming us for that because it gives us more power.

[WesSeid]

But yeah, people worrying that they're going to blame the Ron Paul crowd for costing Romney the nomination...we should be so lucky. If anything, they will in the end try to avoid blaming us for that because it gives us more power.
If they are going to blame us for not voting for Romney, then they should be kissing our feet right now to hope we do. Kiss Our Feet! KISS IT!

[jointhefightforfreedom]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html

That's damn close. We could tip it one way or another.

and why we need to Do the Write in Campaign and force an open electoral college!
And Make it RON PAUL 2012


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gva-PBX8TZM

[tttppp]

GOOD!!!

In 2000 Nader was asked about how he felt about costing Gore the election in Florida. He responded that next time the DNC will pay more attention to it's base. When Romney loses in 2012 the Republican Party will be forced to pay more attention to their liberty wing. Enter a possible Rand Paul run in 2016.

So the DNC was paying more attention to their base by nominating John Kerry? That's a slap in the face to anyones base.

[CPUd]

Do you ever worry about the blame game when you stand up for what you KNOW is right? It might actually be refreshing to hear them blame somebody other than the other side of the coin. People might actually get used to having to factor "the others" vote? What will they do? This screws up everything! The Coke vs. Pepsi war was great! Now you want to bring in 7UP? Three choices? *Confusion* Now what to we do? Simple. We decide.

Well, 7UP is owned by Pepsi...

[John of Des Moines]

Well, 7UP is owned by Pepsi...

Not in the U.S.

From Wikipedia:

The rights to the brand are held by Dr Pepper Snapple Group in the United States, and PepsiCo (or its licensees) in the rest of the world, including Puerto Rico, where the concentrate is manufactured at the Pepsi facility in Cidra. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Up)

[torchbearer]

Wear it as a badge of honor. The choice of the Obamneys is a choice between 4 more years of Obama's policies or 8 more years of Obama's policies.

i used that logic on someone recently- they left the room dazed with no response.

[Matt Collins]

So the DNC was paying more attention to their base by nominating John Kerry? That's a slap in the face to anyones base.Kerry was much more progressive than Gore was.

[sailingaway]

If Obama wins in 2012, and he might not, the Republicans are going to win in 2016 unless the economy turns around (dramatically) before then. That should be obvious to anyone that knows anything about politics.

that would certainly be politics as usual. That knee jerk reaction is what we are trying to change, though. Logical analysis would be nice.

[tttppp]

Kerry was much more progressive than Gore was.

Kerry was just another Romney, designed to run to let the president win. Kerry never presented one real reason to vote for him. The only thing he talked about was that he went to war and Bush didn't.

[NoOneButPaul]

This is the poll where NBC combined the undecideds in a bunch of polls to get a statistical sample, asked them who they liked, and found they liked Ron Paul. We ARE the undecideds. Mind you, Matthews then describes us and our motivations unrecognizably, but it is what it is.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYJLjB4vjRk&feature=player_embedded#t=0s

That's from over 4 months ago...

[Lindsey]

I will be voting in November. There are liberty candidates on my ballot for local offices. Just not sure I will be voting for president - still questionable LP will be on ballot, GOP knocked out CP, but they do count write-ins here.

[jmdrake]

This is the poll where NBC combined the undecideds in a bunch of polls to get a statistical sample, asked them who they liked, and found they liked Ron Paul. We ARE the undecideds. Mind you, Matthews then describes us and our motivations unrecognizably, but it is what it is.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYJLjB4vjRk&feature=player_embedded#t=0s

These are the no BS voters. They don't want to tinker with Washington. They want to demolish this place.

I love it!

[Lucille]

This is the poll where NBC combined the undecideds in a bunch of polls to get a statistical sample, asked them who they liked, and found they liked Ron Paul. We ARE the undecideds. Mind you, Matthews then describes us and our motivations unrecognizably, but it is what it is.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYJLjB4vjRk&feature=player_embedded#t=0s

LOL @ "they don't like people."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rgKAOdPx58

[1000-points-of-fright]

LOL @ "they don't like people."

Maybe so but at least we trust them to run their own lives.

[sailingaway]

That's from over 4 months ago...

over 3 months ago. Wasn't it May? In any event, they haven't done that since, to find out who the undecided's are.

[anaconda]

I wonder if it's fair to say that Paul supporters are only relevant to this election in swing states where Mittens would trail by 2 or 3 percentage points on election day? We will probably get a much clearer picture of this in the aftermath of the election. If Mittens loses 9 swing states by 1% then out votes were very significant. If Mittens loses these by 5% then we are relegated to insignificance. Thoughts?

[sailingaway]

I wonder if it's fair to say that Paul supporters are only relevant to this election in swing states where Mittens would trail by 2 or 3 percentage points on election day? We will probably get a much clearer picture of this in the aftermath of the election. If Mittens loses 9 swing states by 1% then out votes were very significant. If Mittens loses these by 5% then we are relegated to insignificance. Thoughts?

I think we have more than 5% in those states.

[TheGrinch]

I think we have more than 5% in those states.
But was Cavuto right or just blowing smoke that we stand to take as many or more of Obama's voters as Romney's?

Most likely just blowing smoke of course, but there are a significant portion here that wouldn't be voting for Romney anyhow and some in the past for Obama... Of course in an ideal world, this would be even more reason for the Romney folks to suck up to us rather than treat us like dirt. In the real world, it shows that they see as a very real threat to their gravy train, as well they should.

[sailingaway]

But was Cavuto right or just blowing smoke that we stand to take as many or more of Obama's voters as Romney's?

Most likely just blowing smoke of course, but there are a significant portion here that wouldn't be voting for Romney anyhow and some in the past for Obama... Of course in an ideal world, this would be even more reason for the Romney folks to suck up to us rather than treat us like dirt. In the real world, it shows that they see as a very real threat to their gravy train, as well they should.

actually, that is what Rasmussen's poll said in May, that we'd take from both.

[fr33]

If I lived in a swing state I'd be more likely to consider voting Obama. Not saying I would. Luckily I'm in a red state and I won't vote for either Obamney.