Ron Paul Recants The GOP, Just Says No To Keynesians [Archive]

AmericasLastHope

08-31-2012, 07:11 AM

As we anticipate more demand-rigging, pump-priming, can-kicking experiments from Bernanke today, Ron Paul just came out with his latest stream of truthiness (via Bloomberg):

*REP. PAUL SAYS BOTH PARTIES KEYNESIANS, GOP 'NOT HIS
PARTY'
*REP. PAUL SAYS FED PRICE FIXING
*REP. PAUL SAYS FED FLOODING MARKET WITH MONEY

Indeed, what is the opposite of 'between a rock and a hard place' when deciding on just who will provide 'change' in November.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/ron-paul-recants-gop-just-says-no-keynesians

Lucille

08-31-2012, 08:00 AM

nobody's_hero

08-31-2012, 08:24 AM

Bloomberg video does not load for me. Have the sons of bitches running everything already taken it down? Or is everyone in the world watching it and straining the website's bandwidth? Please tell me it's the second possibility.

tennman

08-31-2012, 08:35 AM

Not loading for me either. It acts like it's the load of visitors to that site.

AmericasLastHope

08-31-2012, 08:39 AM

Hmm, it's working for me.

opal

08-31-2012, 08:45 AM

I don't even have a player element on the page

moostraks

08-31-2012, 08:50 AM

Vid (6:22): http://www.bloomberg.com/video/ron-paul-i-don-t-see-significant-change-in-policy-8DAnnZ3rRTm0NVNFZJwYiQ.html

He liked Clint's Afghanistan and GITMO comments. He thinks the Romney people are probably unhappy about that. Heh.

He will never endorse Obamney, Bloomberg Barbie! When will people get that through their thick heads? The presstitute loves central planning.

"It's not my party. I don't like politics at all." He's happy about so many indies and Ds coming around to his way of thinking.

Thanks! It's so nice to read a comments section that's not full of neo-Trots calling him a kook. Love ZH.

I love this video!!!! Love love love the good doctor putting it out there about the single party system. Maybe just maybe this can help heal some wounds here among people who insist we focus mainly within the GOP apparatus as that was Dr.Paul's chosen party. If it isn't his party then maybe people can finally let go and realize it is they who have to decide for themselves if the GOP represents their political positions. That it is up to each voter to decide with which party they must affiliate if they choose to do so. For many of us the GOP will not be our voice to move forward with because of the level to which we view the heinous nature of their positions. By working through as many different apparatuses as possible we can seize those disenfranchised democrats and independents he was referring to that feel left out right now. Many of them simply will not join a strictly republican movement imo.

moostraks

08-31-2012, 08:51 AM

Hmm, it's working for me.

worked fine for me as well...

jmdrake

08-31-2012, 09:22 AM

sailingaway

08-31-2012, 09:53 AM

LibertyEagle

08-31-2012, 10:06 AM

I love this video!!!! Love love love the good doctor putting it out there about the single party system. Maybe just maybe this can help heal some wounds here among people who insist we focus mainly within the GOP apparatus as that was Dr.Paul's chosen party. If it isn't his party then maybe people can finally let go and realize it is they who have to decide for themselves if the GOP represents their political positions. That it is up to each voter to decide with which party they must affiliate if they choose to do so. For many of us the GOP will not be our voice to move forward with because of the level to which we view the heinous nature of their positions. By working through as many different apparatuses as possible we can seize those disenfranchised democrats and independents he was referring to that feel left out right now. Many of them simply will not join a strictly republican movement imo.

Awesome! Great video! Something those who are trying to think for everyone else need to keep in mind.

There's nothing like twisting the good doctor's words and using them for your own end, is there?

You are totally misrepresenting what he said, but you know that.

jmdrake

08-31-2012, 10:10 AM

He doesn't exactly recant it, he says 'he doesn't really think of it as his party', but in the context of not thinking something just because the party gets behind it, imho. He thinks the party establishments are pretty much the same. Still, given some of the arguments here, as a mod I was pleased.

To be accurate he did not say "he doesn't really think of it as his party". He said "It's not my party. I don't really like politics at all. I think both parties are Keynsian economists and that both parties support positions that I don't like. So the party in many ways is irrelevant. But as far as being pleased, I as super pleased at what's working. We got over 2 million votes and our appeal is to democrats ad independents so we have doubled that number. And these people want their freedom. They want sound money. That want the troops home. They want the wars to end. They want the spending to quit. And that's why I'm so encouraged. A whole generation of young people is excited about this and they know what they are getting. All of the talk...they don't believe any of this because they've heard it for too long. And now they are energized. So I am super optimistic and energized about what's happening. Because the ideas are changing. And what I'm talking about is an ideological revolution and it's much bigger than people realize. This system that we have today. The Keynsian economic system, this welfare system, as well as the empire, it's ending and people have to realize it."

I think that's as close as you can get to "recanting" the GOP without publicly tearing up your membership card. What it further tells me is that those saying we all "must work" within the GOP are missing the point. Work where you are comfortable. If that's the GOP, fine. If it's the dems, fine. If it's the libertarian party, fine. Be true to principles, not to parties.

jmdrake

08-31-2012, 10:12 AM

There's nothing like twisting the good doctor's words and using them for your own end, is there?

You are totally misrepresenting what he said, but you know that.

How the hell am I misrepresenting what he said by simply saying?

Awesome! Great video! Something those who are trying to think for everyone else need to keep in mind.

Come on LE. Maybe you miss typed, but otherwise that's a silly response from you.

Matt Collins

08-31-2012, 10:12 AM

If you listen in context and tone of his voice, it is clear he meant that he doesn't own or control the party. He obviously didn't mean that he isn't a member of it.

Brian4Liberty

08-31-2012, 10:18 AM

That reporter is damn annoying.

jmdrake

08-31-2012, 10:18 AM

If you listen in context and tone of his voice, it is clear he meant that he doesn't own or control the party. He obviously didn't mean that he isn't a member of it.

:rolleyes: Who said that he meant he wasn't a member of it? And using big fonts doesn't make your silly straw man argument any better. Further you are the one ignoring the context of what he said. Not only does he not own or "control" the party, but he doesn't agree with the economic position the party has taken. He feels the same way about the democratic party. Does that mean that everyone should abandon the GOP and go work for the libertarians? Of course not. But it also means that your efforts to cajole people who don't want to do so to work in the GOP are misplaced. Where again did Ron say that his support was coming from?

LibertyEagle

08-31-2012, 10:19 AM

I think that's as close as you can get to "recanting" the GOP without publicly tearing up your membership card. What it further tells me is that those saying we all "must work" within the GOP are missing the point. Work where you are comfortable. If that's the GOP, fine. If it's the dems, fine. If it's the libertarian party, fine. Be true to principles, not to parties.

It's true that Ron Paul would never TELL people what to do, but he did ASK us to stay in the GOP during the rally. If you don't want to do that, fine, but don't twist what he said into supporting what you wish he would have said.

You act like it is some revelation that he doesn't support what the Republican Party is doing. Of course he doesn't. He's been saying that for years on end. That will however change as we, hell I'm not politically-correct, TAKE OVER more of the leadership positions and work to change hearts and minds in our communities. Political parties are just tools and I did not hear him say anything in that video that would lead me to believe he changed his strategy. Our numbers have increased quite a bit, but if we split up and go all over the place, it will badly hurt our forward progress. But, it's everyone's own decision to make. But, don't twist the good doctor's words.

Lucille

08-31-2012, 10:28 AM

To be accurate he did not say "he doesn't really think of it as his party[/b]. He said "It's not my party. I don't really like politics at all. I think both parties are Keynsian economists and that both parties support positions that I don't like. So the party in many ways is irrelevant. But as far as being pleased, I as super pleased at what's working. We got over 2 million votes and our appeal is to democrats ad independents so we have doubled that number. And these people want their freedom. They want sound money. That want the troops home. They want the wars to end. They want the spending to quit. And that's why I'm so encouraged. A whole generation of young people is excited about this and they know what they are getting. All of the talk...they don't believe any of this because they've heard it for too long. And now they are energized. So I am super optimistic and energized about what's happening. Because the ideas are changing. And what I'm talking about is an ideological revolution and it's much bigger than people realize. This system that we have today. The Keynsian economic system, this welfare system, as well as the empire, it's ending and people have to realize it."

I think that's as close as you can get to "recanting" the GOP without publicly tearing up your membership card. What it further tells me is that those saying we all "must work" within the GOP are missing the point. Work where you are comfortable. If that's the GOP, fine. If it's the dems, fine. If it's the libertarian party, fine. Be true to principles, not to parties.

A few fellow Paulians and GOP PCs here formed Flag Liberty Alliance (http://flagstafflibertyalliance.com/), and they welcome everyone to come to the meetings, and are encouraging Ds to take over their party just like we are attempting to do.

LibertyEagle

08-31-2012, 10:29 AM

How the hell am I misrepresenting what he said by simply saying?

Awesome! Great video! Something those who are trying to think for everyone else need to keep in mind.

Come on LE. Maybe you miss typed, but otherwise that's a silly response from you.

Perhaps I misunderstood you. If I did, I apologize. To me, your comment sounded like a continuation of what moostracks said. Which to me was basically saying, who cares about all the inroads you have made into the GOP leadership positions. Screw all the progress that so many have made. Just split up and flitter off in a million different directions.

I heard nothing in that video that led me to believe Dr. Paul changed his strategy.

Tod

08-31-2012, 10:37 AM

The Collins, LE, & SA have it right.

And for that matter, so does B4L: That is THE most annoying reporter I have seen in a LONG time.

jmdrake

08-31-2012, 10:38 AM

It's true that Ron Paul would never TELL people what to do, but he did ASK us to stay in the GOP during the rally. If you don't want to do that, fine, but don't twist what he said into supporting what you wish he would have said.

He said the same thing in 2008...and then endorsed a third party candidate for president. Read between the lines. It ain't either or. And quit being dishonest. I haven't twisted anything. I gave a word for word quote of what he actually said.

You act like it is some revelation that he doesn't support what the Republican Party is doing. Of course he doesn't. He's been saying that for years on end.

I haven't "acted" an any such way. And what the Republican Party is doing is irrelevant. The point that I'm making is that Ron isn't trying to cat herd the way some are attempting to do. He told people to take over the GOP in 2008. I was at the rally in Nashville where I first heard Rand lay out that strategy. And a few months later....Ron endorsed Chuck Baldwin. Taking over the GOP and working outside of the GOP are not mutually exclusive propositions.

That will however change as we, hell I'm not politically-correct, TAKE OVER more of the leadership positions and work to change hearts and minds in our communities. Political parties are just tools and I did not hear him say anything in that video that would lead me to believe he changed his strategy. Our numbers have increased quite a bit, but if we split up and go all over the place, it will badly hurt our forward progress.

What will "split us up" is if we keep insisting on what trying to tell other people what to do. And I'm calling out the "Everybody must vote for Gary Johnson" people as well. How about just realizing that in a group made up of strident individuals there will always be a diversity of actions and just make the best of it?

Matt Collins

08-31-2012, 10:43 AM

He said the same thing in 2008...and then endorsed a third party candidate for president. Working within the Party infrastructure and supporting non-party liberty candidates are not the same thing.

jmdrake

08-31-2012, 10:48 AM

Perhaps I misunderstood you. If I did, I apologize. To me, your comment sounded like a continuation of what moostracks said. Which to me was basically saying, who cares about all the inroads you have made into the GOP leadership positions. Screw all the progress that so many have made. Just split up and flitter off in a million different directions.

I heard nothing in that video that led me to believe Dr. Paul changed his strategy.

Fair enough. Let me clarify my position. I did my best to help Matt win the Davidson County GOP chair, and argued on his behalf (in vain) to help him keep the vice chair and I would do it again. On the flip side, Mark Clayton won the Democratic senate primary here in Tennessee. He's a Ron Paul supporter as well and the dems are trying to kick him out of the party. I support him as well over RINO "bailout" Bob Corker. I think Clayton made more of an impact winning the Democratic primary than he would have running against Bob Corker in the primary. He even drew the ire of Rachel Madcow. So, to me, sometimes it makes sense for some people to work outside the GOP. I wouldn't agree with abandoning positions inside the GOP we've already won. In fact, I didn't get that from what moostracks was saying, but I'll let him speak for himself.

jmdrake

08-31-2012, 10:51 AM

Working within the Party infrastructure and supporting non-party liberty candidates are not the same thing.

Wow. That straw man factory must be working overtime. Who said that working within the party infrastructure was the same thing as supporting non-party liberty candidates? In fact......what's you're point?

Edit: And what I think you wanted to say is what I said in post #21.

Taking over the GOP and working outside of the GOP are not mutually exclusive propositions.

Since they aren't mutually exclusive, those who can't stomach the GOP should concentrate their efforts on doing what the like to do (supporting non-party liberty candidates). The biggest problem this movement has is it's trying to get people to do things instead of finding out what things people like to do which might also help liberty and facilitating them doing that.

moostraks

08-31-2012, 10:51 AM

Perhaps I misunderstood you. If I did, I apologize. To me, your comment sounded like a continuation of what moostracks said. Which to me was basically saying, who cares about all the inroads you have made into the GOP leadership positions. Screw all the progress that so many have made. Just split up and flitter off in a million different directions.

I heard nothing in that video that led me to believe Dr. Paul changed his strategy.

LE stop telling people what they are saying and trying listening to what is being said. I really get disgusted with you. You are attempting to continue to portray everyone in this vary narrow, petty view you have of the world because you have to have a black and white view to comprehend things yet the world is shades of grey. You choose to work within the GOP because you feel the calling but others never will be capable of joining a party that doesn't represent them. The speech by the doctor can be a very effective tool for liberating people into realizing what the two party system is. Working with Dems and indies does not always mean co-opting them into the republican party where many could not in their own conscience do. It ain't about politics and parties. Learn to listen and stop trying to portray me as something I am not btw. You might not like what I have to say but I will not tolerate you misrepresenting it.

moostraks

08-31-2012, 11:06 AM

maybe I need to be clear here...some people have been making the issue that the GOP is actually some special term for Ron Paul's party rather than it was where he choose to affiliate. Some people here are making a demand of others who came to the liberty movement that they become the GOP or they are not valuable or wanted (or specifically counter productive to the liberty movement). His statements in this video imo liberates those who have a different calling in this life. It calls for a unity outside of political labels because the labels are not valid. Both major parties equal the same result. Work like hell within the GOP if that is what you feel the need to do but stop disrespecting people who cannot and will not be able to do so as it violates their conscience. Respect individual liberties while working together on the common goal of having individual liberties respected.

Matt Collins

08-31-2012, 11:17 AM

Work like hell within the GOP if that is what you feel the need to do but stop disrespecting people who cannot and will not be able to do so as it violates their conscience. Respect individual liberties while working together on the common goal of having individual liberties respected.It does no good if our people are diluted and unfocused. That's how THEY win! We must present a united front.

tod evans

08-31-2012, 11:19 AM

That reporter is damn annoying.

Who would of thought.......Ron Paul not following script..:rolleyes:

I thought she was rude too.

jmdrake

08-31-2012, 11:29 AM

It does no good if our people are diluted and unfocused. That's how THEY win! We must present a united front.

Did you earn this merit badge as a Eagle Scout?

cat herding merit badge
http://www.streamwood.net/ProdImages/SPOOF/catherding.jpg

Here's a suggestion Matt. I recently finished reading the 7 habits of highly effective people. I encourage you to do the same. Because trying to cajole others into what you want them to do is not the way to be effective.

pcosmar

08-31-2012, 11:38 AM

cat herding merit badge
http://www.streamwood.net/ProdImages/SPOOF/catherding.jpg

I herd cats often,, They go where they want,,
You have to make it worth it to them to follow you.. (cat food helps)

Matt Collins

08-31-2012, 11:39 AM

Did you earn this merit badge as a Eagle Scout?

cat herding merit badge
http://www.streamwood.net/ProdImages/SPOOF/catherding.jpgLOLz that's awesome!

moostraks

08-31-2012, 11:41 AM

It does no good if our people are diluted and unfocused. That's how THEY win! We must present a united front.

This is a re-post from a separate thread...same argument though:

Membership affiliation matters when you fund goals counter productive to your beliefs. Would you become a member of the Nazi party? What if we all agreed that we would join the Nazi party and change it to represent individual liberty? Would you further the Nazi party goals until your group was big enough to co-opt it and make it a force for good? Whether you like it or not that is what those of you who make it a conditional requirement to join the GOP or work to further the GOP are asking of some people. Walk a mile in another man's moccasins before casting judgement upon them.

LibertyEagle

08-31-2012, 11:46 AM

LE stop telling people what they are saying and trying listening to what is being said. I really get disgusted with you. You are attempting to continue to portray everyone in this vary narrow, petty view you have of the world because you have to have a black and white view to comprehend things yet the world is shades of grey. You choose to work within the GOP because you feel the calling but others never will be capable of joining a party that doesn't represent them. The speech by the doctor can be a very effective tool for liberating people into realizing what the two party system is. Working with Dems and indies does not always mean co-opting them into the republican party where many could not in their own conscience do. It ain't about politics and parties. Learn to listen and stop trying to portray me as something I am not btw. You might not like what I have to say but I will not tolerate you misrepresenting it.

Right back atcha.

Do what you want to do. You don't need anyone's permission to do that. But, don't twist Dr. Paul's words into saying something that he did NOT say. Case in point:

Maybe just maybe this can help heal some wounds here among people who insist we focus mainly within the GOP apparatus as that was Dr.Paul's chosen party. If it isn't his party then maybe people can finally let go and realize it is they who have to decide for themselves if the GOP represents their political positions.

Nowhere did he say that.

Austrian Econ Disciple

08-31-2012, 11:55 AM

GOP apologists are so damn annoying.

Matt Collins

08-31-2012, 12:03 PM

GOP apologists are so damn annoying.I don't think anyone around here is an apologist for the GOP.

moostraks

08-31-2012, 12:18 PM

Right back atcha.

Do what you want to do. You don't need anyone's permission to do that. But, don't twist Dr. Paul's words into saying something that he did NOT say. Case in point:

Nowhere did he say that.

5:08 [The GOP] "it's not my party...I don't like politics at all...and I think both parties are keynesian economists...both parties support the positions I don't like..so the party in many ways is irrelevant" "pleased on what is working...our appeal is to independents and democrats""ideological revolution...bigger than a lot of people realize"

From this you get that we must work within the GOP?

LibertyEagle

08-31-2012, 12:27 PM

5:08 [The GOP] "it's not my party...I don't like politics at all...and I think both parties are keynesian economists...both parties support the positions I don't like..so the party in many ways is irrelevant" "pleased on what is working...our appeal is to independents and democrats""ideological revolution...bigger than a lot of people realize"

From this you get that we must work within the GOP?

In my opinion, he was saying he didn't own the GOP. That it was not currently reflecting his ideals.

I never said people "must" do anything. What people choose to do is their own decision.

jmdrake

08-31-2012, 12:28 PM

Right back atcha.

Do what you want to do. You don't need anyone's permission to do that. But, don't twist Dr. Paul's words into saying something that he did NOT say. Case in point:

Maybe just maybe this can help heal some wounds here among people who insist we focus mainly within the GOP apparatus as that was Dr.Paul's chosen party. If it isn't his party then maybe people can finally let go and realize it is they who have to decide for themselves if the GOP represents their political positions.

Nowhere did he say that.

http://www.insidesocal.com/pets/assets_c/2012/08/tail%20chase-thumb-300x200-61880.jpg

Nobody said Ron Paul said what you're saying Ron Paul didn't say. There is a difference between what someone says and reasonable conclusions that can be drawn from what someone said.

LibertyEagle

08-31-2012, 12:29 PM

Nobody said Ron Paul said what you're saying Ron Paul didn't say.
I don't agree.

There is a difference between what someone says and reasonable conclusions that can be drawn from what someone said.

Right, and you didn't draw them. :p

Matt Collins

08-31-2012, 12:34 PM

Nobody said Ron Paul said what you're saying Ron Paul didn't say. My head hurts after reading that :p

JSaindon

08-31-2012, 12:42 PM

Not loading for me either. It acts like it's the load of visitors to that site.

I think there is a bad node somewhere in the midwest. I've been having slow loads from east coast websites since last night. Damn internets.

moostraks

08-31-2012, 12:46 PM

In my opinion, he was saying he didn't own the GOP. That it was not currently reflecting his ideals.

I never said people "must" do anything. What people choose to do is their own decision.

Yes, but you take the position that by people leaving the republican party they are personally culpable for the damage that the loss of numbers will cause to any advances that have been made. That somehow they are being disloyal to Ron Paul and his party. It is trying to guilt people into furthering your chosen path because you might suffer a setback. It sucks and I am sorry if that happens but it is temporary and the goal should be the bigger picture. It is destructive to try and make working within the GOP some sort of litmus test. That is where I think his statements of the party being largely irrelevant come in to play. This video should be building bridges instead of wielding an ax over those who the GOP was only their party because of what a RP presidency would mean. Many people swallowed a bitter pill to associate themselves with the republican party and they should be set free to pursue their conscience with a godspeed and a kiss not a cold shoulder with rants of betrayal. I wonder how much this convention has surprised the good doctor in the level of corruption we face. He is very aware in so many ways but even the most jaded individuals can become disgusted and surprised when the face of evil shows itself.

What is funny is your attitude towards me is only making it easier to distance myself from those who want people to stay in the GOP and I am a fence sitter on the issue as I am not sure what will be most effective to do considering where I live. I really took the video in a positive light towards healing wounds here and not a personal call for what I should do or demand others to do and yet I have been made out to be some sort of dissident that needs to be silenced for the good of the party. Wth?

WhistlinDave

08-31-2012, 12:54 PM

http://www.insidesocal.com/pets/assets_c/2012/08/tail%20chase-thumb-300x200-61880.jpg

Nobody said Ron Paul said what you're saying Ron Paul didn't say. There is a difference between what someone says and reasonable conclusions that can be drawn from what someone said.

Who said somebody said Ron Paul said what LE was saying Ron Paul didn't say? :toady:

I think the main thing to take from what Ron said is the point that this is an ideological revolution.

Regardless of what party people decide to work within, what will eventually, inevitably, inexorably change our government and our politics is the ideology of Liberty--because once it has reached such critical mass that it is the majority viewpoint in the nation, then those in power will be ousted with much more ease. At this point, it is a mathematical certainty. Like a nuclear reaction that is spreading and can't be stopped.

Matt Collins

08-31-2012, 01:09 PM

Who said somebody said Ron Paul said what LE was saying Ron Paul didn't say? :toady:
http://www.wheaton.me.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/ScannersExplodingHead.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW27kyh7PVM&feature=fvwrel

jmdrake

08-31-2012, 01:17 PM

I don't agree.

But you've shown no evidence to back up your disagreement. You're free to have your own opinions, just not your own facts.

Right, and you didn't draw them. :p

Really? Let me quote someone I generally have respect for:

What people choose to do is their own decision.

Hmmmmmm......that's the conclusion I drew from what Ron said. That's the conclusion moonstracks drew from what Ron said. You seem to have come to the same conclusion. If you think you yourself are unreasonable I can't help you. ;)

Edit: And before you pipe in with "But that's just my own opinion" answer me this. Can you say with a straight face that a man who just said on national TV that the GOP is "not my party" and that it's the same as the democratic party and that he hates politics really believes anything other than "What people choose to do is their own decision"? Seriously, your logic doesn't compute.

Lucille

08-31-2012, 01:34 PM

I think the main thing to take from what Ron said is the point that this is an ideological revolution.

Regardless of what party people decide to work within, what will eventually, inevitably, inexorably change our government and our politics is the ideology of Liberty--because once it has reached such critical mass that it is the majority viewpoint in the nation, then those in power will be ousted with much more ease. At this point, it is a mathematical certainty. Like a nuclear reaction that is spreading and can't be stopped.

Word.

“When the number of committed opinion holders is below 10 percent, there is no visible progress in the spread of ideas. It would literally take the amount of time comparable to the age of the universe for this size group to reach the majority,” said SCNARC Director Boleslaw Szymanski, the Claire and Roland Schmitt Distinguished Professor at Rensselaer. “Once that number grows above 10 percent, the idea spreads like flame.”

Read more at http://scienceblog.com/46622/minority-rules-scientists-discover-tipping-point-for-the-spread-of-ideas/#GtXuYGqzomsSkQ0r.99

Oh and congrats on your tweet making CSPAN! Saw it live. Way to represent!