The gloves are off

[noztnac]

We need to really hammer home the following two points:

1. Rudy Giuliani was a draft dodger.
2. Mitt Romney was a draft dodger.


If people want to nitpick about what constitutes "dodging" the draft that is fine.

As long as they know that these two pro-war candidates found ways not to serve when presented with the opportunity and yet know want to lead our military in war our point will have been made.

And we should encourage people in the McCain, and Hunter camps to help us get this message out. McCain was a POW in Vietnam and Duncan Hunter was an Army Ranger.

Ron Paul, as you already know, served as a flight surgeon in the Air Force.

Even people who are pro war are not going to like the hypocrisy of Romney and Giuliani.

[0zzy]

Mitt Romney was doing religious work in France, I don't think we can attack him. Too much blowback.

Rudy wanted to be a lawyer, so we can attack him! :)

[hard@work]

Well I know what a chickenhawk is. But what's a person who currently serves or is a vet called when they support a chickenhawk?

[noztnac]

Yes, but what religion?

And also, if serving was against his religion how does that square with him now wanting to be the commander in chief.

Finally, w/regard to blowback, that's why I'm encouraging us to encourage the McCain and Huckabee campaigns to make these facts known.

[noztnac]

Many of these war vets don't yet know the full story of Romney and Giuliani's record of draft dodging.

[noztnac]

Muhammad Ali

In 1964, Ali failed the U.S. Armed Forces qualifying test because his writing and spelling skills were sub par. However, in early 1966, the tests were revised and Ali was reclassified 1A. He refused to serve in the United States Army during the Vietnam War as a conscientious objector, because "War is against the teachings of the Holy Qur'an. I'm not trying to dodge the draft. We are not supposed to take part in no wars unless declared by Allah or The Messenger. We don't take part in Christian wars or wars of any unbelievers."

After a long court battle, Ali was convicted of draft evasion and sentenced to five years in jail and fined $10,000 fine.

And although this decision was later overturned he did give up his title and he did go to jail.

Muhammad Ali has my complete respect.

Mitt Romney does not.

[V-rod]

Whats the point? Most of the criticism of Ron Paul is coming from chickenhawk men who never served in the armed forces and don't mind others dying in order for them to feel good about themselves about being American and safe back home.

[ClayTrainor]

We need to really hammer home the following two points:

1. Rudy Giuliani was a draft dodger.
2. Mitt Romney was a draft dodger.


If people want to nitpick about what constitutes "dodging" the draft that is fine.

As long as they know that these two pro-war candidates found ways not to serve when presented with the opportunity and yet know want to lead our military in war our point will have been made.

And we should encourage people in the McCain, and Hunter camps to help us get this message out. McCain was a POW in Vietnam and Duncan Hunter was an Army Ranger.

Ron Paul, as you already know, served as a flight surgeon in the Air Force.

Even people who are pro war are not going to like the hypocrisy of Romney and Giuliani.

I actually feel a little sick to my stomache reading this.

These assholes are pushing harder than anyone to keep the war going and they can`t even man up and serve themselves when the time came!?!?!?!

I hope Mccain gets on this... i may not agree with anything he says, but at least he did his time, and served his country when these other neocons are just straight up cowards.

[/Anger]

[1town]

Ron Paul doesn't need to rely upon dirty campaigning. His message speaks for itself.

[RonPaulFever]

If Ali had went to Vietnam....we would have won!

[Midnight77]

Ron Paul doesn't need to rely upon dirty campaigning. His message speaks for itself.

That's what he relies on us for :D

He does his part. We'll do ours.

[jrich4rpaul]

Instead of calling Rudy a draft dodger, we should get more publicity for RudysReadingList.com

Contact the media :)

[JAYCEE]

No Mormons in Vietnam. Since retiring from the military, I've worked throughout the world. I've seen Mormon recruiters in Venezula and Colombia. However, I served in 3 deployments to Vietnam, and I encountered no Mormons serving in military uniform. When NAM broke-out, Mitt broke for France (racially segregated Mormon mission), where I assumed he sipped vino and ate chesse. I've heard enough from Mitt about his faith, I would rather hear from him as to why Mormons serving in military uniform is in conflict with LDS doctrines.


http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?p=70773&sid=82acdc17588306dbd3cd583677206e06

These are ligitimate issues, especially the latter. The Mittster needs to answer some questions and stop using "The Book of Morman" as a shield.

Mike Huckabee is another chickenhawk warmonger. He was born Aug 24, 1955. The Vietnam War ended on April 30, 1975. The Huckster could have been in Vietnam as early as Aug 1973. He had other priorities I guess.

Instead of helping bring freedom and democracy to the people of Vietnam, he helped himself by attending Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas.

I assume that "religous study" was a way to avoid the killing fields of Vietnam. Does anybody remember?

[1town]

I don't agree with attacking people for draft dodging, because I don't agree with the drafts. It's hypocrisy. Honor those who fight, but don't diminish those who don't.

[Sematary]

We need to really hammer home the following two points:

1. Rudy Giuliani was a draft dodger.
2. Mitt Romney was a draft dodger.


If people want to nitpick about what constitutes "dodging" the draft that is fine.

As long as they know that these two pro-war candidates found ways not to serve when presented with the opportunity and yet know want to lead our military in war our point will have been made.

And we should encourage people in the McCain, and Hunter camps to help us get this message out. McCain was a POW in Vietnam and Duncan Hunter was an Army Ranger.

Ron Paul, as you already know, served as a flight surgeon in the Air Force.

Even people who are pro war are not going to like the hypocrisy of Romney and Giuliani.

You never notice how well that worked against Bush?

[ClayTrainor]

I don't agree with attacking people for draft dodging, because I don't agree with the drafts. It's hypocrisy. Honor those who fight, but don't diminish those who don't.

but what about those who dont, and then promote pre-emptive war?

[robatsu]

Attacking candidates for draft dodging is a loser, as has been shown with both Bush and Clinton. The bottom line is that there is a whole big cohort of aging baby boomers who either dodged the draft or wished they had. There are a lot more of these than there are Vietnam vets. And a lot of them believe that this was an act of bravery/moral superiority, opting out of an evil war.

Whether one likes it or not (I'm an ex-military man, fwiw), the draft dodging attack by itself just doesn't work in today's political climate. However, I'm not so sure that the charge of chickenhawkism isn't entirely without merit - a lot of the vietnam era draft dodgers are anti Iraq war, so there may be some leverage there.

[wgadget]

And again, why on EARTH would someone so opposed to the draft for himself want to be commander-in-chief?

It's sheer hypocrisy.

[robert4rp08]

I'd only bring it up if they mention anything about needing a draft.

[Mr. White]

No Mormons in Vietnam. Since retiring from the military, I've worked throughout the world. I've seen Mormon recruiters in Venezula and Colombia. However, I served in 3 deployments to Vietnam, and I encountered no Mormons serving in military uniform. When NAM broke-out, Mitt broke for France (racially segregated Mormon mission), where I assumed he sipped vino and ate chesse. I've heard enough from Mitt about his faith, I would rather hear from him as to why Mormons serving in military uniform is in conflict with LDS doctrines.


http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?p=70773&sid=82acdc17588306dbd3cd583677206e06

These are ligitimate issues, especially the latter. The Mittster needs to answer some questions and stop using "The Book of Morman" as a shield.

Mike Huckabee is another chickenhawk warmonger. He was born Aug 24, 1955. The Vietnam War ended on April 30, 1975. The Huckster could have been in Vietnam as early as Aug 1973. He had other priorities I guess.

Instead of helping bring freedom and democracy to the people of Vietnam, he helped himself by attending Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas.

I assume that "religous study" was a way to avoid the killing fields of Vietnam. Does anybody remember?

The draft was over by then, American forces were declining. BIG difference between draft dodging and choosing not to enlist.

[Bigboyen]

This will work less and less each election. Most people haven’t served and they will feel it as an attack on their moral and value.

Anyway it's not our job - we need to get more name recognition before we can dream about attack ads.

[klamath]

I don't know if calling them draft dodgers is good but to call them out on not serving is in my opinion a very effective tactive. Any one of those men could have walked to a recruiter and signed up. A huge amount of people have a problem with rich kids and politicians getting out of serving. I don't think RP should use this but I sure do. I used it this weekend on my mother in law and found that it had the most effect with the mouthpiece of the neocons, O'Reilly. "wa.. Wa.. What? I thought he walked the walk!" Hitting the mouth peices of these people such as limbaugh, and gang is very effective as that is where people are getting their opinions of RP. She was spruring the same lines as them that RP was crazy.
I just went to my sons wedding and met all the former marine vets that are getting recalled to active duty to serve another tour in Iraq so that Mitts sons can ride around in their winebago for their father. You bet I was bringing that up to people at the wedding and got a shocked reaction every time.

[noztnac]

Ron Paul doesn't need to rely upon dirty campaigning. His message speaks for itself.


What's dirty about presenting people with the facts and having them make up their own minds?

[noztnac]

This will work less and less each election. Most people haven’t served and they will feel it as an attack on their moral and value.

Anyway it's not our job - we need to get more name recognition before we can dream about attack ads.


I disagree with you on the first point. This election it is especially important because the most vocal advocates for sending people to fight did not themselves fight when the law required them to. They are hypocrites of the highest order.
And because they did not serve, some other poor bastard had to go in their place.

To your second point: It is our duty to inform our fellow citizens of the deception that is going on in the mainstream media. If not you...who?