Which terrorists were actually responsible for the attacks on september 11?

[adwads]

This isn't a 9/11 truth thread, rather, I'm trying to ask which terrorists were actually responsible for the attacks on september 11??

I mean, the 19 hijackers who actually performed the attacks are dead. Who exactly is the war on terror against?

I mean, we are told by the government that osama bin laden "ordered" the attacks, but is just telling somebody to carry out murder enough to convict that person of murder? I mean, I could go tell my neighbor to murder somebody and if he did, its not like he can get away with it by saying "my neighbor told me to do it."

Besides that, we are trusting that the government actually has proof that osama bin laden orchestrated the attacks. From what we know from the war in iraq, the government gets things wrong a lot. (Although I think bin laden did claim responsibility, am I wrong?)

I think after 9/11 we were so quick on wanting revenge that we blamed it all on osama bin laden. But the truth is, the ones who carry the MOST responsibility for the attacks died on september 11.

[Indy Vidual]

Blowback...
The "19 thugs" were mostly Saudi, so why didn't we invade them?

[PatriotG]

What we really must ask here is

"If Bin Laden is responsible, how come we haven't captured him yet?"

It seems to me when the government wants a man, they eventually get him, unless of course he was never really meant to be captured.

Hmmmmmm............


PatriotG

[adwads]

The thing that gets me is, why are we in 2 wars in the middle east to find those responsible for 9/11 when those who were actually responsible died on 9/11?

[Spirit of '76]

Most of the Al Qaeda heirarchy are Saudi Arabian, as were most of the 9/11 hijackers. Most of those hijackers entered this country on student visas.

Ron introduced legislation that would cut out student visas from Saudi Arabia and other countries known to sponsor terrorism. His House colleagues, who pay so much lip-service to our national security, never let the bill out of committee. It was too practical and not sensational enough for 'em, I reckon.

[SeanEdwards]

I mean, we are told by the government that osama bin laden "ordered" the attacks, but is just telling somebody to carry out murder enough to convict that person of murder?



Yes, it's called a conspiracy. All conspirators to a crime can potentially be convicted of the crime itself, even if they don't directly participate in the actual crime. All that needs to be proved is that they participated in planning the crime.

Now what's really interesting about conspiracy law is that people can be convicted of conspiracy without directly committing any crime, or even before an actual crime is commited. Say you and your roommate jokingly discuss robbing the corner liquor store. Then your roommate actually goes and cases the liquor store but doesn't rob it. At that point, both of you can be charged with conspiracy to rob the store, even though no actual robbery took place. And the penalty for conspiracy is generally the same as the penalty for the underlying crime itself!

[adwads]

Most of the Al Qaeda heirarchy are Saudi Arabian, as were most of the 9/11 hijackers. Most of those hijackers entered this country on student visas.

Ron introduced legislation that would cut out student visas from Saudi Arabia and other countries known to sponsor terrorism. His House colleagues, who pay so much lip-service to our national security, never let the bill out of committee. It was too practical and not sensational enough for 'em, I reckon.

They didn't like it because it would actually solve the problem in a simple manner. That's a big no no in D.C.

[adwads]

Yes, it's called a conspiracy. All conspirators to a crime can potentially be convicted of the crime itself, even if they don't directly participate in the actual crime. All that needs to be proved is that they participated in planning the crime.

Now what's really interesting about conspiracy law is that people can be convicted of conspiracy without directly committing any crime, or even before an actual crime is commited. Say you and your roommate jokingly discuss robbing the corner liquor store. Then your roommate actually goes and cases the liquor store but doesn't rob it. At that point, both of you can be charged with conspiracy to rob the store, even though no actual robbery took place. And the penalty for conspiracy is generally the same as the penalty for the underlying crime itself!

Okay, that makes sense. But are we supposed to trust the government that they have all of this evidence that Bin Laden conspired to commit the 9/11 attacks? I mean, do we have evidence that from his cave he organized the attacks?

I'm not saying that I don't believe bin laden organized it, I do, I'm just saying that the government we have right now has a lot of credibility problems.

And what has not been discussed enough is that the terrorists who implemented the attacks are dead.

[terlinguatx]

...

[SeanEdwards]

Okay, that makes sense. But are we supposed to trust the government that they have all of this evidence that Bin Laden conspired to commit the 9/11 attacks?


I think the government does want you to trust them. :D



I mean, do we have evidence that from his cave he organized the attacks?


There was some shifty video or other that the media made a big deal of early during the Afghanistan deal.

As far as I know, nobody has revealed any truly damning piece of evidence. Certainly not the kind of evidence that would be expected to prove a typical murder trial in the U.S.

Now it may be that there is evidence that can't be released to the public, or that wouldn't be permitted in a trial because it was obtained illegally, such as from wiretaps or as a result of waterboarding some asshole. We may never know all the details. But yeah, the government has serious credibility problems at this point. I think their pushing the whole Iraq WMD lie really burned a lot of the trust that they might otherwise have expected.

[pcosmar]

Yes, it's called a conspiracy. All conspirators to a crime can potentially be convicted of the crime itself, even if they don't directly participate in the actual crime. All that needs to be proved is that they participated in planning the crime.

Now what's really interesting about conspiracy law is that people can be convicted of conspiracy without directly committing any crime, or even before an actual crime is commited. Say you and your roommate jokingly discuss robbing the corner liquor store. Then your roommate actually goes and cases the liquor store but doesn't rob it. At that point, both of you can be charged with conspiracy to rob the store, even though no actual robbery took place. And the penalty for conspiracy is generally the same as the penalty for the underlying crime itself!

Would that be Conspiracy Theory?
Theoretically?

[pcosmar]

What we really must ask here is

"If Bin Laden is responsible, how come we haven't captured him yet?"

It seems to me when the government wants a man, they eventually get him, unless of course he was never really meant to be captured.

Hmmmmmm............


PatriotG

Manuel Noriega?

[DJ RP]

If I tell my friend to go shoot somebody tell him how to do it, where to get a gun and then he goes and does it and shoots himself afterwards the main culprit is dead and I'm not really guilty of much if you believe in free will.

All this war and killing when those directly responsible are all dead :|

[johngr]

Yes, it's called a conspiracy. All conspirators to a crime can potentially be convicted of the crime itself, even if they don't directly participate in the actual crime. All that needs to be proved is that they participated in planning the crime.

Now what's really interesting about conspiracy law is that people can be convicted of conspiracy without directly committing any crime, or even before an actual crime is commited. Say you and your roommate jokingly discuss robbing the corner liquor store. Then your roommate actually goes and cases the liquor store but doesn't rob it. At that point, both of you can be charged with conspiracy to rob the store, even though no actual robbery took place. And the penalty for conspiracy is generally the same as the penalty for the underlying crime itself!


Got any evidence of Bin Laden's involvement?

[Enzo]

Denying student visas to students from specific countries is just idiotic :(

You start with specific countries.. and it would soon turn into denying certain ethnicities, races or last names. That's not the America I want to live in.

You're gonna deny the white kid from Riyadh that has a half Saudi dad and French mother a visa... but allow the Arab kid just because he's from Paris?

[kimosabi]

Well I checked out the FBI's Most Wanted Web Site and guess what, Bin Laden isn't even wanted for 9/11...

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

Oh and there's the other problem with the other supposed Terrorists that turned up alive after 9/11 but we wouldn't want go there because we might get into conspiracy's.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_2003_June_24/ai_103603756