Rather than take over the GOP, I would rather destroy it....

[Sematary]

And start a new party from the ashes....

True story

[torchbearer]

details.

[Sematary]

It has to go. When an Apple is rotten to the core, you don't save it. You toss it

[tony m]

It has to go. When an Apple is rotten to the core, you don't save it. You toss it

It's not an apple.

[alucard13mmfmj]

seems when the liberty folks gets a stronger presence in the GOP, the GOP changes or makes new rules to screw those folks over in the future.

making a new party... we'd be the fringe like libertarians, constitutional, green, progressives.

[torchbearer]

It has to go. When an Apple is rotten to the core, you don't save it. You toss it

one man marching against the state is a lone nutter about to be squashed with the backing of the drones.
how are you going to get numbers to join you?
the founders of the LP thought the same thing in 1971.

[anewvoice]

Why bother when the neocons are doing such an effective job of it by themselves?

[TheTyke]

We would end up fighting the exact same powers in any party that actually had power. Heck, the establishment already nominated Gingrich-supporter, Bob Barr, for the Libertarian party in 08.

We have a foothold in 7+ states now. It's time to charge and take more ground!

[acptulsa]

seems when the liberty folks gets a stronger presence in the GOP, the GOP changes or makes new rules to screw those folks over in the future.

making a new party... we'd be the fringe like libertarians, constitutional, green, progressives.

The Republican Party is shoving itself out on the fringe. Today they chopped one leg off of Reagan's 'three-legged stool', and they didn't do themselves a lot of favors with at least one other. Hell, I do believe the Whig Party was in better shape in 1848.

I don't think this discussion is apples and oranges, or Apple and IBM either. I think the only way to take over the G.O.P. is to gut it and rebuild it. The disease runs so deep it pretty much needs an everythingectomy.

When the walls fall, we can storm it. But from what I saw today, I don't think we're going to succeed before then.

[jointhefightforfreedom]

seems when the liberty folks gets a stronger presence in the GOP, the GOP changes or makes new rules to screw those folks over in the future.

making a new party... we'd be the fringe like libertarians, constitutional, green, progressives.

I'm Glad The American Revolution Fighters didn't say "we can't we would be the fringe"

BTW is was less than 20% That gave us Liberty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Q11Q]

I'm a Tea Party / Liberty conservative voter. Judging by the amount of angry comments against Romney on other websites, ie. Malkin, Rush, Levin, and The Free Republic, I can see a merging of Ron Paul and Tea Party forces in the near future to secure our US Constitution from destruction by the Romney RINO machine.

[torchbearer]

I'm a Tea Party / Liberty conservative voter. Judging by the amount of angry comments against Romney on other websites, ie. Malkin, Rush, Levin, and The Free Republic, I can see a merging of Ron Paul and Tea Party forces in the near future to secure our US Constitution from destruction by the Romney RINO machine.

if only the masses had your perspective.

[nobody's_hero]

The ONLY thing that keeps me going is you people involved. I'm truly conflicted over what to do. Some days I say I want to leave politics altogether, because I can truthfully say that I was much happier when I was 'politically ignorant.' Other days I feel like I'd be letting too many fellow patriots down if I did that. I won't say I'm inconsistent, but I think of it more as a fierce internal debate that I have to work out.

Damn you, Ron Paul, for waking me up. And at the same time, thank you.

[R3volutionJedi]

well yea... I still feel like Ron Paul should have started his own party or gone independent.

[jbauer]

The ONLY thing that keeps me going is you people involved. I'm truly conflicted over what to do. Some days I say I want to leave politics altogether, because I can truthfully say that I was much happier when I was 'politically ignorant.' Other days I feel like I'd be letting too many fellow patriots down if I did that. I won't say I'm inconsistent, but I think of it more as a fierce internal debate that I have to work out.

Damn you, Ron Paul, for waking me up. And at the same time, thank you.

Holy fricking dito (if they still say that) Kinda like the matrix, at this point please plug my ass back in.

[mz10]

if only the masses had your perspective.

Actually I think there is clear evidence that even if the Tea Party wouldn't stand behind Ron Paul himself, they will stand behind liberty candidates like Massie, Amash, Bentivolio, Cruz, etc. A merging of the two movements seems inevitable to me, and hopefully the result will be the tea party backing Rand in 2016, instead of Rubio.

[acptulsa]

Well, you know, if we really wanted to help the GOP self-destruct, we should try to take over the Democratic Party. If we did, and that might just be easier to do, we could use it as a club to bludgeon the Republican Party into the ground for good.

[QuickZ06]

It's not an apple.
Did someone say apple.......



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOcW1r4TO3k

[torchbearer]

Actually I think there is clear evidence that even if the Tea Party wouldn't stand behind Ron Paul himself, they will stand behind liberty candidates like Massie, Amash, Bentivolio, Cruz, etc. A merging of the two movements seems inevitable to me, and hopefully the result will be the tea party backing Rand in 2016, instead of Rubio.

Tea Party voting romney is droves.
might want to send them the memo.
looks more like they objected to a black progressive and would be ok with a white progressive.

[Mini-Me]

Quitting our activism within the GOP is exactly what the current RNC wants. It's why they did what they did today: Emotional manipulation to depress us and make us shrink away and splinter off into ineffective third parties...because they know that if we stay in this and take over the GOP state parties, they're screwed. They simply do not have the same numbers of people willing to get actively involved in local party politics that we do, and that is why they fear us and desperately try to push us away. Don't fall for it.

[michaelwise]

And start a new party from the ashes....

True story

The only way to do that is to give Obama a landslide victory by all our forces committing to vote for Obama for one and one reason only;
REVENGE!

That should do it. Otherwise you get to keep the Republican party you currently have.

[Carlybee]

I'm a Tea Party / Liberty conservative voter. Judging by the amount of angry comments against Romney on other websites, ie. Malkin, Rush, Levin, and The Free Republic, I can see a merging of Ron Paul and Tea Party forces in the near future to secure our US Constitution from destruction by the Romney RINO machine.

Yes because no one says Conserve the Constitution like Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin.:confused: Having any of those people and most of the co-opted Tea Party would make me run even farther away from the GOP. Seriously you are talking about people who voted for people who support neverending war and the Patriot Act. Please explain to me how they would be securing the Constitution from further destruction?

[nobody's_hero]

Holy fricking dito (if they still say that) Kinda like the matrix, at this point please plug my ass back in.

Well, the GOP was playing Little Richard's "Shout" today when celebrating Romney/Ryan's nomination, so I assume 'holy fricking ditto' is still acceptable terminology.

[erowe1]

First take it over. Then destroy it.

[aclove]

If the GOP can be destroyed, it'll be because we provoke it into destroying itself. Us leaving only strengthens the GOP in its current form. Sure, they won't be winning elections anytime soon, but that's no problem. They're quite adept at being a patronage organization instead.

If we stay involved, though, there are only 2 possible outcomes: we either take over, or we agitate so much that the party fractures and destroys itself, at least in its current form. That's less preferable, but still acceptable.

Allowing them to run us out and continue with business as usual is NOT acceptable on any level.

[nobody's_hero]

I'm Glad The American Revolution Fighters didn't say "we can't we would be the fringe"

BTW is was less than 20% That gave us Liberty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

True, but they didn't do it politically. For a political approach, in a system that has devolved into mob-rule disguised as a republic, 50% is going to be a tough threshold to reach, before we can say that we have the majority and the rules WILL be followed.

Edit: Let me be clear, we will need 50% +1 of the votes. There's no way around it. Some states wasted all their delegates on Mitt today because neocon-packed slates passed with a simple majority vote at their state conventions.

[BSU kid]

I hate the GOP with a passion the burns greater the a billion suns after what I have seen today.

[McChronagle]

my thoughts on todays events


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yq7043awb4

[Michigan11]

We caused one hell of a fire storm within the GOP. They aren't even sure who or what is going on, you have to laugh hard about what is going on LMAO

[acptulsa]

True, but we didn't do it politically. For a political approach, in a system that has devolved into mob-rule disguised as a republic, 50% is going to be a tough threshold to reach, before we can say that we have the majority and the rules WILL be followed.

Edit: Let me be clear, we will need 50% +1 of the votes. There's no way around it. Some states wasted all their delegates on Mitt today because neocon-packed slates passed with a simple majority vote at conventions.

Well, there's one way to reach that 50.1%. It involves engaging that majority of Americans who are too disgusted to even bother any more. Any ideas on how we can do this?

It keeps coming back to creating or subverting a media outlet to broadcast our voices, doesn't it?

[rockandrollsouls]

THIS. And we are MUCH closer to taking over.


If the GOP can be destroyed, it'll be because we provoke it into destroying itself. Us leaving only strengthens the GOP in its current form. Sure, they won't be winning elections anytime soon, but that's no problem. They're quite adept at being a patronage organization instead.

If we stay involved, though, there are only 2 possible outcomes: we either take over, or we agitate so much that the party fractures and destroys itself, at least in its current form. That's less preferable, but still acceptable.

Allowing them to run us out and continue with business as usual is NOT acceptable on any level.

[rockandrollsouls]

I've had a number of people tell me they would never support the republican party, but would absolutely vote for Ron if he was on the ballot. If we can continue to change the narrative in the party, we can get that majority. It's not a matter of warping ourselves to get their attention. We have their attention; we just need the numbers and the influence to give them the opportunity to GIVE US their vote.


Well, there's one way to reach that 50.1%. It involves engaging that majority of Americans who are too disgusted to even bother any more. Any ideas on how we can do this?

It keeps coming back to creating or subverting a media outlet to broadcast our voices, doesn't it?

[nobody's_hero]

Well, there's one way to reach that 50.1%. It involves engaging that majority of Americans who are too disgusted to even bother any more. Any ideas on how we can do this?

It keeps coming back to creating or subverting a media outlet to broadcast our voices, doesn't it?

That's been my target audience since I got involved. As the poster above mentioned, the biggest hang-up seems to be that they don't want to join the GOP in its current form. Understandable, since that's what I struggle with.

I had hoped that today's convention would have been more contested and lively, because it helps if people see that big changes are happening within at least one of these currently useless parties. No one wants to join an army of rubber-stamping robots, which is what both parties are.

We need more Ben Swanns to keep saying the same things over and over until it becomes the new 'normal' dialogue. Debate is much too restrained as it stands. It used to be 'crazy' to talk about the Fed, now it's crazy *not* to talk about it.

[The Free Hornet]

True, but they didn't do it politically. For a political approach, in a system that has devolved into mob-rule disguised as a republic, 50% is going to be a tough threshold to reach, before we can say that we have the majority and the rules WILL be followed.

Edit: Let me be clear, we will need 50% +1 of the votes. There's no way around it. Some states wasted all their delegates on Mitt today because neocon-packed slates passed with a simple majority vote at their state conventions.

Regarding mob rule:

From Wiki:

"Romney: Popular vote 10,023,280"
"Ron Paul: Popular vote 2,095,619"

US Population: 311,591,917 (from Google)

As a % of population, we need about 3.2% to get 10 million primary votes. If ALL the people that self-identify as libertarians had voted Ron Paul, it could have been a different story. Sadly, many of them focused on the GOP and not the contenders. They put party above politics (but in the opposite way that most do). That mistake is being repeated by some here today...

[LibertyEagle]

Well, there's one way to reach that 50.1%. It involves engaging that majority of Americans who are too disgusted to even bother any more. Any ideas on how we can do this?

It keeps coming back to creating or subverting a media outlet to broadcast our voices, doesn't it?

I agree that we badly need a media outlet. Badly.

[LibertyEagle]

True, but they didn't do it politically. For a political approach, in a system that has devolved into mob-rule disguised as a republic, 50% is going to be a tough threshold to reach, before we can say that we have the majority and the rules WILL be followed.

Edit: Let me be clear, we will need 50% +1 of the votes. There's no way around it. Some states wasted all their delegates on Mitt today because neocon-packed slates passed with a simple majority vote at their state conventions.

Yes, but we could do one hell of a lot of damage to the establishment in the House and Senate. If we managed to do that, they could retake the reins of power from the Executive Branch.

[NoOneButPaul]

You destroy the current GOP by taking it over.

Run for local office and start from there.

[pacu44]

seems when the liberty folks gets a stronger presence in the GOP, the GOP changes or makes new rules to screw those folks over in the future.

making a new party... we'd be the fringe like libertarians, constitutional, green, progressives.

we are that now...

[acptulsa]

I've had a number of people tell me they would never support the republican party, but would absolutely vote for Ron if he was on the ballot.

Me, too. We probably all have by now.

[Mini-Me]

Oh, dammit...I just wrote a big long post, and it was erased by an automatic logout causing me to accidentally cancel posting it. BLAH.

The current RNC knows something that a lot of the "third partiers" here don't, and it's the same thing torchbearer and many others are trying to get across:

The two-party system is not an accident. It is INHERENT to plurality voting. There is literally no getting around it without changing the election laws. There have been occasions in the past where a third party has replaced another upon division and implosion, but the two-party system always reasserted itself, because the laws weren't changed. Moreover, major parties never implode by being destroyed from the outside: Instead, it's always internal division that breaks them apart and momentarily destabilizes the two-party system. That's what we're doing with the Republican Party: If we take over, the best case scenario is that we disenfranchise the neocon ringleaders and become a major party. The worst case scenario is that they successfully split and set up a third party...and that would be the precise moment at which other third parties might, just might, have a brief window where they can win enough seats to make a difference.

Unless the establishment itself uses its full might to create a third party, third party chances are much more limited: It takes years and years, even decades, of mounting discontent with the two-party system to give a single third party enough gains in consecutive elections for them to overtake a major party "from the outside." This is not happening today, and it has not happened for the 40 years the LP has been around, because it's not how voters work...the two-party system is too inherent to plurality voting. Voter education doesn't work, because the vast majority of people do not have rational enough personality types to listen to us until they see us as winners, or until they've become humbled enough to open their minds to rational argumentation. Until then, far too many people will continue to vote for politicians like they bet on horses, no matter how many educational efforts we put forth...and the non-voters who comprise the majority of the country? They're not withdrawing their consent from the system. They're just too apathetic to care, or too lazy to try...a laziness which certainly extends to much more personally demanding non-political approaches like any attempt at tax revolt.

Voting for third parties in general elections is great for protest votes and hopes and prayers that a party shift will eventually arise from public discontent, but placing all of our bets on it would be foolish. We'd need a "secret billionaire" - a repeat of Ross Perot - to shake things up suddenly enough to win a Presidential election...but guess what? Ross Perot didn't effect any real change beyond his own election year, and even within that year, there wasn't enough crossover to other elections (e.g. Congress and Senate) to make a difference. Even if he won - even if Ron Paul won - winning a Presidential election is NOT ENOUGH TO SAVE US. We could briefly end the wars, temporarily invalidate executive orders, veto new bills, and change the priorities of executive departments and agencies for a few years, but without Congress on our side, we could not actually change voting laws to permanently make third parties viable, so any changes we could effect would necessarily be temporary until things reverted back to the terrible norm.

We barely have the resources to fund a handful of liberty candidates at once, so going the third party route, we simply do not have the resources to take over Congress. If we want third parties to be viable, we need to change the voting laws to get rid of plurality voting...and we cannot muster up enough support to do that with a third party approach.

The RNC knows ALL of this. The establishment has deliberately set up the third party avenue as a dead-end for dissidents. They offer us the temptation of "taking our ball and going home," but the LP's dismal track record over the past 40 years shows exactly where that leads...nowhere. It's emotionally easy to give up on the GOP and rationalize it by saying "they're too corrupt to associate ourselves with their brand, and too corrupt to let us take over." The latter is demonstrably wrong, considering we've already taken over some state chairs...but giving up on the GOP out of spite would still be more emotionally appealing. We wouldn't have to rub shoulders with the corrupt and feel tainted by it. We could sit at a safe distance and pontificate instead of suffering through emotionally devastating, up-close-and-personal uphill battles with sociopaths in the same room. We wouldn't have to fight hard to gain ground and keep it, and instead we could pin our hopes on third party miracles...but we wouldn't get anywhere, and the state would still continue killing and pillaging.

Actually accomplishing something means going toe-to-toe with the enemy. Doing this requires a lot of courage, perseverance, and a thick skin. It's emotionally difficult, and the RNC is exploiting this to try to get us to give up and go back to third parties, where we can safely be ignored. I'm voting for Gary Johnson this fall, don't get me wrong...but giving up on the GOP for third party activism is not going to get anywhere. Neither is agorism, because the government will always have above-ground businesses to tax, since they're the only ones with the productive capacity to maintain civilization. Purely educational efforts are already facing diminishing returns, because only a small subset of people have the personality and open-mindedness to listen to reason without it being accompanied by victory and social proof. The vast majority of people are too biased and too emotional to see reason without first having an emotional incentive to do so. (In fact, the same applies to a lesser extent here, as evidenced by the very fact that people continue to push the third party route despite all the rational arguments against it, and as evidenced by people handwaving away the gains we've made in the GOP by pointing to every setback as definitive proof of futility.) Now, taking over every state GOP and then the RNC? That's going to make waves. It's hardly the last battle we'll have to fight, and we'll continue to face resistance during and after such an effort, but it's the best strategy we've ever had. It's the only even remotely viable strategy we've ever had, and it's the only one where we've ever gained significant institutional ground. We can drive the neocons from the GOP, as long as we don't let them emotionally manipulate us and drive us from it first...but I see too many people here trying to convince others to give into the RNC's bullying.

[opal]

Everythingectomy.. best word ever

[ClydeCoulter]

It's a 2 party system because the average joe can't handle more than 2 to choose from. They get what they want. How many sports games have more than 2 teams playing against each other? Popular are they? Us vs them.

[acptulsa]

Everythingectomy.. best word ever

Thanks! :D

[acptulsa]

Oh, dammit...I just wrote a big long post, and it was erased by an automatic logout causing me to accidentally cancel posting it. BLAH.

Back button. Copy. Log in. Paste.

Works.

[Mini-Me]

It's a 2 party system because the average joe can't handle more than 2 to choose from. They get what they want. How many sports games have more than 2 teams playing against each other? Popular are they? Us vs them.

It's a two-party system because plurality voting incentivizes people to vote for the candidate most likely to beat the one they hate the most, rather than even considering who their actual preference might be...because they're too afraid of their most hated candidate winning. Studies have also demonstrated the obvious here: Winner-takes-all plurality voting inherently devolves into a two-party system, whereas more fair systems of voting (like range voting with proportional delegation) do not.

[Mini-Me]

Back button. Copy. Log in. Paste.

Works.

It didn't in my case, because I was actually editing a previous post on the same page before the pop-up window with the cancel button screwed me. Believe me, I tried. ;)

[heavenlyboy34]

It's a 2 party system because the average joe can't handle more than 2 to choose from. They get what they want. How many sports games have more than 2 teams playing against each other? Popular are they? Us vs them.
Individual sports feature numerous people competing against each other. They're popular in the rest of the world, but a few are popular here-golf, racing, etc.

[Veteran Citizen]

And start a new party from the ashes....

True story


Look, you can keep your principles and vote for Johnson, that's the honest way to go.
If you vote for Obama, you are an unprincipled douchebag.

It's pretty clear where we need to go. Don't let your need to oppose the Rububiclans lead you down the path that would actually vote for a communist.

THE ONLY WAY TO PROMOTE THE LEGITIMACY OF THE LIBERTY MOVEMENT IS TO VOTE FOR LIBERTY. Voting for Obama is a surrender.

The liberty movement has more conviction than that. If you plan to vote for Obama, please declare your liberalism and divorce yourself from our movement.

[ClydeCoulter]

There may be something to be had from Obama, if he wants to win. Do you think Romney will give us anything toward liberty? Just more wars.
So, I want a discussion on the possibilities of "Obama, come to the table", if he's willing to come to this table. But, it's not free.

[fr33]

The libertarian party would not be passing rules to keep us out and they would not have taken our delegates away.

I am tired of being the red-headed step child that keeps trying to be loved only to be spat upon. FUGOP

[GeorgiaAvenger]

If the liberty movement was actually committed to destroying the GOP, and going third party, I would be obligated to destroy that structure of the liberty movement in order to actually get liberty candidates elected, and that is through the GOP.

I'm not too enthused with a plan that just gives elections to Democrats every year. Not a good plan.

[fr33]

I'm not too enthused with a plan that just gives elections to Democrats every year. Not a good plan.Instead you are part of a plan that gives it to both Republicans and Democrats. And because of that, they are indistinguishable. And probably will continue to be.

[Elwar]

If you can't beat them, join them.

Then work from within to beat them.

[ClydeCoulter]

If the liberty movement was actually committed to destroying the GOP, and going third party, I would be obligated to destroy that structure of the liberty movement in order to actually get liberty candidates elected, and that is through the GOP.

I'm not too enthused with a plan that just gives elections to Democrats every year. Not a good plan.

What are we willing to do for the sake of what? Liberty? Peace? Where's that coming from.
Do you not understand what powers were garnered today by the RNC? They changed the rules for the # of states for nomination only hours from the nomination process.
Got infiltration? We are not going anywhere with kind of crap from the PTB. Nowhere. Nullification? "The national guard and DHS today surrounded the VA state legistlature building arresting all insurgents".

[rockandrollsouls]

So if we can fill the party with people who have Ron's narrative, our problem may be solved. We've been doing that quite successfully the past couple of years. Why stop it?


Me, too. We probably all have by now.

[fr33]

The GOP has sent a clear message today that they do not want us. The threat of us not voting Romney has been out in the open for a long time and they made it quite clear with this convention that they do not want our votes.

Some people need to check themselves for addiction to abuse.

The fact is all it takes is for republican bloggers/leaders/radio to tell the neocons to show up and oust you and every Ron Paul delegate and other positions could be replaced in a couple years. Good luck tagging along with a bunch of socialist war mongers. You are nothing but a pimple to them.

[GeorgiaAvenger]

Instead you are part of a plan that gives it to both Republicans and Democrats. And because of that, they are indistinguishable. And probably will continue to be.

Democrats are worse than Republicans. I'm not going to change the facts just because people or mad, or because sometimes they cooperate together on bad issues. I prefer Republicans to Democrats, especially with the Paul movement and Tea Party stirring the pot.

[Bastiat's The Law]

The libertarian party would not be passing rules to keep us out and they would not have taken our delegates away.

I am tired of being the red-headed step child that keeps trying to be loved only to be spat upon. FUGOP
Yeah, but the owner of the Burger King where the LP hold their convention would kick you out at closing time. The liberty movement is bigger and more successful than the LP.

[Anti Federalist]

Well, you know, if we really wanted to help the GOP self-destruct, we should try to take over the Democratic Party. If we did, and that might just be easier to do, we could use it as a club to bludgeon the Republican Party into the ground for good.

Wisdom.

[The Gold Standard]

We desperately need a media outlet that will report real news and not distort our message. If we can get that then these other questions will be easy to answer.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Instead you are part of a plan that gives it to both Republicans and Democrats. And because of that, they are indistinguishable. And probably will continue to be.
Ron Paul was pretty distinguishable and a Republican.

[fr33]

Democrats are worse than Republicans. I'm not going to change the facts just because people or mad, or because sometimes they cooperate together on bad issues. I prefer Republicans to Democrats, especially with the Paul movement and Tea Party stirring the pot.I disagree. Democrats at least tell the truth about wanting to tax and spend. Republicans lie doing the exact same thing on the exact same scale.

[fr33]

Ron Paul was pretty distinguishable and a Republican.Look what that got him. Delegates stolen, rules changed to keep us out next time, and drowned out by chants of USA. #winning

**edit:

Oh and another thing that got him. He's not going to be on the general election ballot. That republican party got him jack shit this election.

[heavenlyboy34]

Democrats are worse than Republicans. I'm not going to change the facts just because people or mad, or because sometimes they cooperate together on bad issues. I prefer Republicans to Democrats, especially with the Paul movement and Tea Party stirring the pot.
Not really. I've found them more receptive to the libertarian position than Republicans. The liberty impulse is historically "leftist"-which is why revolutions against that generally at least purport to be about liberation are typically violent overthrows of established order.

[fr33]

Ron Paul gave more to the Republican party than the Republican party ever gave him.

[acptulsa]

We desperately need a media outlet that will report real news and not distort our message. If we can get that then these other questions will be easy to answer.

They would indeed.

It is conceivable to start a party that would draw both self-styled Republicans and Democrats. Especially now, as many in the nation clamor for peace and many Democrats--even the ones not yet ready to admit it--are disgusted with the sellout their 'messiah' did to the powers of war. It could be done. But not without having a megaphone, a bully pulpit, a real voice in what passes for American discourse in these troubled times. As it is, we made real gains in all of those primary debates. They could keep Johnson off the stage, but we were too numerous and too vocal, and they couldn't do it to our man. They wanted to. They would have, if they could have. But they couldn't. And all because Ron Paul held his nose and put the capital R next to his name.

That's the reality.

So, we have two choices. We can launch a two-pronged attack on the two party system. We can remove all the baggage that the two major parties carry, and give people of peace a home where there may be struggles to define our economic policies and whatnot, but which does stand firm on the major issue or issues that unite us, like peace and prosperity. But that party MUST be accompanied by a major assault on the information censorship and propaganda--and not just a lot of complaining, but real alternatives that people can use. And I don't just mean wonks, I mean everyone. A new media outlet that isn't too full of itself to entertain, do human interest stories, and whatever will draw viewers. Otherwise, it just won't fly.

Or, we can keep after the GOP, if only because that's the party we already have running so scared they shelve rules they've abided by for fifty years or so.

I don't see a third way. What's more, I really don't see a second way. Because we could never build up another party without a megaphone, and what's more, I think we learned today that we might not be able to take over the GOP without it either.

We need to be the media. Badly.

[FSP-Rebel]

I guess at this point everyone has heard the arguments either way, so do what you think is the most effective. Post all successes going forward and we'll see what avenue continually pans out. After that, if one avenue is head and shoulders above the rest and folks still want no part of it, that'll speak volumes. I truly want more liberty and I wouldn't beat the war drums for restoring the GOP if I thought there was truly a more effective means.

[rockandrollsouls]

But the PEOPLE have shown they want OUR liberty candidates in the GOP primaries and, better yet, in public office.

It doesn't matter what the party wants. Their neoconservative narrative is dying. Let me ask you this. Compared to the (minimum) 7 liberty minded candidates we put in congress this past cycle, what new neocons did they manage to install?


The GOP has sent a clear message today that they do not want us. The threat of us not voting Romney has been out in the open for a long time and they made it quite clear with this convention that they do not want our votes.

Some people need to check themselves for addiction to abuse.

The fact is all it takes is for republican bloggers/leaders/radio to tell the neocons to show up and oust you and every Ron Paul delegate and other positions could be replaced in a couple years. Good luck tagging along with a bunch of socialist war mongers. You are nothing but a pimple to them.

[Tyler_Durden]

And start a new party from the ashes....

True story

After Paul's speech on Sunday, I said I want to burn the fuc*ing tent to the ground and rebuild on its ashes....

[Mini-Me]

The GOP has sent a clear message today that they do not want us.

No, the GOP's current leadership has sent a clear message that they don't want us..and your plan is to listen to them? LOL.

There's a reason the RNC doesn't want us. We've already taken control of some state parties. We have the numbers to take control of all of them, if people just show up. It will then be a cinch to replace the RNC, and after that, we'll be the ones in charge of the nomination process. The RNC must do whatever they can - degrade us, humiliate us, depress us - to convince us to give up and go third party before we make it that far, because if we keep at this, we will. We're an enormous threat to them both politically and personally, as long as we continue taking over the GOP from the local level up.

Third parties on the other hand are a dead end...on purpose. I didn't write a rational essay on the topic (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?387776-Rather-than-take-over-the-GOP-I-would-rather-destroy-it....&p=4610279&viewfull=1#post4610279) for people to continue letting the RNC emotionally manipulate them into kneejerk emotional reactions. I wrote it to convince people to THINK, because I expect better out of people around here than to be led around by their emotions.

[cajuncocoa]

The GOP has sent a clear message today that they do not want us. The threat of us not voting Romney has been out in the open for a long time and they made it quite clear with this convention that they do not want our votes.

Some people need to check themselves for addiction to abuse.

The fact is all it takes is for republican bloggers/leaders/radio to tell the neocons to show up and oust you and every Ron Paul delegate and other positions could be replaced in a couple years. Good luck tagging along with a bunch of socialist war mongers. You are nothing but a pimple to them.Well stated. It's time for the liberty movement to strike out on our own. We will be no worse off than we will be hanging on in the GOP.

[michaelwise]

The Goal: To show the MSM and the GOP who the hell their fucking with.

Remember when Uma Thurman got her revenge in that movie Kill Bill? That kind of revenge, except without the blood.

Registered Republican Ron Paul supporters are pledging millions of their votes to Obama for Revenge on the MSM/GOP/CNN/MSNBC/FOX, et al. I believe their starting a website to register revenge vote pledges.

There's not a cunt hair's worth of difference between Romney and Obama!

This is Carroll Quigley's vision come true;

The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can ‘throw the rascals out’ at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy.

—Carroll Quigley[1]

“The powers of financial capitalism had (a) far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland; a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world.”

- Prof. Carroll Quigley
in Tragedy and Hope

DAVID ROCKEFELLER THANKS MEDIA FOR ITS SILENCE

“… it would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government …” – David Rockefeller in Baden-Baden, Germany 1991, thanking major media for keeping secret for decades the movement of the prophetic one world government.


Thanks for Keeping Secrets, MSM Loves David Rockefeller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XIU5P-j9hRs

P.S.
This video is not updating. Who knows how many views are on it?
Please download it ad reload it under whatever you want.


I'm voting for Obama directly. Romney invented Obamacare for crying out loud.

Reason #1: Revenge on Fox/MSM/GOP for not playing fair just like in the McCain/Obama election of 2008, except this time I'm not writing in Ron Paul.

Reason #2: To get a liberty candidate elected in 2016.

Reason #3: To tell Mitt Romney/Wall Street to go fuck themselves.

Reason #4: To let the MSM know they don't get to pick our presidents anymore, the alternative media and internet does now.

Reason #5: So the democrats get to preside over the complete and total economic collapse of the USA so they can re- learn their mathematics lesson, this time the hard way.

I could go on.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

So why not change the rules of the game and vote for the cunt hair's bit of greater evil this time by voting for Obama? There'll still be no difference in federal policy for either party.

You can't win if you don't play. Ron Paul supporters vote religiously. I usually vote against all the incumbents up for re-election on the ballot, except for one person this time around.

This comment from a participant at Zero Hedge.com;

Political implications of the future currency crisis:

FACT IS >>>>> WE ARE GOING OFF A CLIFF WITH EITHER OBAMA OR ROMNEY. It is too late to change course. And Repubs endorsing a gold standard is laughable. We are looking at a currency collapse in the next few years. As soon as we loose our reserve currency status, our rates will spike and we will be TOAST.

Given that a majority of the US public is very uneducated from an economic standpoint, they are very likely going to blame this collapse on the politics and on who is currently in office. I think we can agree that neither Obama nor Romney are going to enact measures that will prevent this collapse.

Therefore, we need to ask our selves the following: Do we want an economic collapse under an “Overt Socialist” i.e. Obama? Or do we want the collapse during the administration of a RINO that supposedly (at least in the minds of the ignorant US public) stands for Free Market Capitalism?

I am scared of a back lash against Free Market Capitalism if the Economic Collapse happens during Romney’s administration. This could very well lead to the government enacting much harsher economic controls and lead to a totalitarianism state.

But if the Economic Collapse happens during the Obama administration, then the US public will more likely see the actual writing on the wall and finally return to Free Markets.

Therefore I will be voting for the man that is the furthest from my point of view. Obama. I think a collapse in his term would be better, he will get the blame and rightly so.

Like I say; A complete and total worldwide economic collapse is a 100% mathematical certainty.

I actually do think a democrat party in power will go easier on us during the economic collapse, because the libs can scream louder than the repubs and the repub sheeple like torture more, even for themselves.


Must see video, really;

Media Military Complex- Same 6 owners for Media & Defense Ron Paul coverage investigative journ pt 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz_bjew709I&feature=plcp



Remember Remember the 5th of November.

When you see what we have planned for the 5th of November with our political paper and pencil strategy, or in this case, computer keyboard strategy, we win the war. We mean on that date a complete and total destruction of the Republican party as we know it today. Here's a hint what will happen; R for Revenge. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

[gjdavis60]

That's been my target audience since I got involved. As the poster above mentioned, the biggest hang-up seems to be that they don't want to join the GOP in its current form. Understandable, since that's what I struggle with.

I had hoped that today's convention would have been more contested and lively, because it helps if people see that big changes are happening within at least one of these currently useless parties. No one wants to join an army of rubber-stamping robots, which is what both parties are.

We need more Ben Swanns to keep saying the same things over and over until it becomes the new 'normal' dialogue. Debate is much too restrained as it stands. It used to be 'crazy' to talk about the Fed, now it's crazy *not* to talk about it.
I think today's convention went brilliantly. The Republican establishment acted like children and made fools of themselves on national TV trying to blot out any mention of Ron. The left media should have a field day with this for at least the next couple of weeks. I don't think Romney has a prayer in the general, which means that the Republican Party will continue to search for direction and leadership. That's us.

[michaelwise]

You guys are fucking awesome!

[AuH20]

Only a full-fledged nutter would want the GOP destroyed without having a viable option set in place.

[Sematary]

You guys are fucking awesome!

We like to think so...

[Sematary]

Only a full-fledged nutter would want the GOP destroyed without a viable option set in place.

I am honored by your title.

[AuH20]

Democrats are worse than Republicans. I'm not going to change the facts just because people or mad, or because sometimes they cooperate together on bad issues. I prefer Republicans to Democrats, especially with the Paul movement and Tea Party stirring the pot.


Correct. The democrat party is the preferred engine that drives the oppressive state in this country. Just look back at the last 100 years.
Look at the presidents elected as well. All pre-selected moderates and progs. The republican party is just the other vessel that has been compromised to make sure important advances are not surrendered.

[Origanalist]

There may be something to be had from Obama, if he wants to win. Do you think Romney will give us anything toward liberty? Just more wars.
So, I want a discussion on the possibilities of "Obama, come to the table", if he's willing to come to this table. But, it's not free.

And you would believe him? Why? How is his word worth any more than Mitt's?

[wgadget]

What happens, though, Mini-Me, when the GOP disallows you into their Party because you voted Libertarian? They're great at changing rules on a dime.

[Origanalist]

Correct. The democrat party is the preferred engine that drives the oppressive state in this country. Just look back at the last 100 years. The republican party is just the other vessel that has been compromised to make sure certain advances are not surrendered.

EXACTLY, The Dems drive us down the road to hell and when the repubs win we just stop for a while until the dems get back in power. Sometimes they don't stop but just slow the pace, they never turn around.

[Sematary]

Correct. The democrat party is the preferred engine that drives the oppressive state in this country. Just look back at the last 100 years. The republican party is just the other vessel that has been compromised to make sure certain advances are not surrendered.

Oh PLEASE. In case you've forgotten your history
1. It was a Republican who gave us the "war on drugs" (Thanks to Ronald Reagan for that one)
2. It was a Republican who gave us the "Patriot Act" (Here's a shout out to Bush Jr.)
3. It was a Republican who gave us Iraq 1 AND 2 (George Sr. and George Jr.) which have led to so many of the other things G2 took away
4. Department of Homeland Security (Thanks again George 2)
5. TSA (G2)
6. Not that the Democrats have been any better but I see the Republicans as leading the way (ESPECIALLY with their right wing conservative bs that requires them to determine morality for the entire fucking country).
7. REAL ID (Bush again) - wtf?

[AuH20]

EXACTLY, The Dems drive us down the road to hell and when the repubs win we just stop for a while until the dems get back in power. Sometimes they don't stop but just slow the pace, they never turn around.

Yup. The republican party is a glorified friction brake for full-on statism. No reverse gear can be found on the GOP vehicle for good reason. :)

[TheTexan]

Not that I'm really advocating it, but just a thought. Maybe next time around we should work the Democrat angle. We've planted the seeds in the Republican party, but maybe we just need the other piece of the puzzle for people to see the full picture.

[AuH20]

Oh PLEASE. In case you've forgotten your history
1. It was a Republican who gave us the "war on drugs" (Thanks to Ronald Reagan for that one)
2. It was a Republican who gave us the "Patriot Act" (Here's a shout out to Bush Jr.)
3. It was a Republican who gave us Iraq 1 AND 2 (George Sr. and George Jr.) which have led to so many of the other things G2 took away
4. Department of Homeland Security (Thanks again George 2)
5. TSA (G2)
6. Not that the Democrats have been any better but I see the Republicans as leading the way (ESPECIALLY with their right wing conservative bs that requires them to determine morality for the entire fucking country).

No, I'm pretty sure you have ignored your history. This country was lost before 1950. Who do you think pushed the Espionage Act of 1917 and the Sedition Act of 1918 which preceded the Patriot Act???? Remember the Japanese internment??? Who's judges preceded over the Interstate Federal takeover with Wickard Fillburn?? Who do you think started plundering the Western Hemisphere in the early part of the century????? The precedent for all the events you outlined started in the early part of the century. We live in the Democratic era of rule and always have. Don't fool yourself. The Bushes would be wonderful democrats in the 1960s but under no circumstances are they traditional conservatives.

[Feeding the Abscess]

No, I'm pretty sure you have ignored your history. This country was lost before 1950. Who do you think pushed the Espionage Act of 1917 and the Sedition Act of 1918???? Who's judges preceded over the Interstate Federal takeover with Wickard Fillburn?? Who do you think started plundering the Western Hemisphere in the early part of the century????? The precedent for all those events started in the early part of the century. We live in the Democratic era of rule and always have.

The first progressive president was a Republican.

The GOP has never done anything but gleefully partake in the massive growth of the State during its entire existence - starting literally from its inception.

[krazy kaju]

That would be nice. I wouldn't mind joining the LP. I just don't see the GOP (or the Democrat Party for that matter) ever going away... they have become too engrained to the state. The two major parties are practically governmental institutions at this point.

[acptulsa]

The first progressive president was a Republican.

Thomas Jefferson was not a Republican.


The GOP has never done anything but gleefully partake in the massive growth of the State during its entire existence - starting literally from its inception.

Being a fan of both Harding and Coolidge, I call b.s. Those who refuse to learn from history shouldn't try to teach it. Do you seriously think the Roaring Twenties were a result of government meddling in the economy?

[Dogsoldier]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVeQN0wXlsk&feature=g-all-u


Whatcha think?

[Origanalist]

I think it's pointless to argue over which vile, serpent infested (apologies to serpents) party is worse.



http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg563/DouglasPaul/RepublicDemocratSameFuckingDifference.jpg

Some argue the gop cannot be changed, I think we have to.

[acptulsa]

EXACTLY, The Dems drive us down the road to hell and when the repubs win we just stop for a while until the dems get back in power. Sometimes they don't stop but just slow the pace, they never turn around.

Dubya killed habeus corpus. That isn't a stop, and it isn't a slowing down. That's the crime of the century. And there's no one but Republicans to blame.

[Pauls' Revere]

The Liberty party?

[TheTexan]

The Liberty party?

too close to the "Libertarian" party. we wouldn't want to get confused with those people.

freedom party? patriot party?

[acptulsa]

The Peace Party.

[TheTexan]

The Peace Party.

works for me

[Sematary]

too close to the "Libertarian" party. we wouldn't want to get confused with those people.

freedom party? patriot party?

I was thinking "the people's party" but it has a communist ring to it, so it won't work.

I like the Freedom Party though.

[Origanalist]

Dubya killed habeus corpus. That isn't a stop, and it isn't a slowing down. That's the crime of the century. And there's no one but Republicans to blame.

I'm already regreting that post.....:rolleyes:

Let me repeat my next one;

I think it's pointless to argue over which vile, serpent infested (apologies to serpents) party is worse.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg563/DouglasPaul/RepublicDemocratSameFuckingDifference.jpg



Some argue the gop cannot be changed, I think we have to.

[AuH20]

The Peace Party.

Peace party???? Declaring oneself openly as a peacemaker invites all kinds of trouble. There is some truth to the phrase if you want peace prepare for war. I like the Vigilant Party better because it sends mixed signals and we can actually implement a truly conservative foreign policy.

[acptulsa]

Peace party???? Declaring oneself openly a peacemaker invites all kinds of trouble. There is some truth to the phrase if you want peace prepare for war. I like the Vigilant Party better because it sends mixed signals.

The most powerful nation on earth, with a military to rival all the other militaries in the world combined, can afford to invite a little trouble. Yes, the Defense Party would attract more kneejerk types, and be more accurate. But it doesn't have the same ring, nor does it promise what many in the U.S. want most desperately--an end to American Imperi--er, I mean exceptionalism.

Besides, I thought you liked mixed signals.

[TheTexan]

The most powerful nation on earth, with a military to rival all the other militaries in the world combined, can afford to invite a little trouble. Yes, the Defense Party would attract more kneejerk types, and be more accurate. But it doesn't have the same ring, nor does it promise what many in the U.S. want most desperately--an end to American Imperi--er, I mean exceptionalism.

Besides, I thought you liked mixed signals.

I also like the "ending the war on us" angle

[AuH20]

The most powerful nation on earth, with a military to rival all the other militaries in the world combined, can afford to invite a little trouble. Yes, the Defense Party would attract more kneejerk types, and be more accurate. But it doesn't have the same ring, nor does it promise what many in the U.S. want most desperately--an end to American Imperi--er, I mean exceptionalism.

Besides, I thought you liked mixed signals.

But the term peace has been hijacked. It's become emasculated. No peace through strength but rather peace due to lack of resolve and vigilance. Limp wristed peace.

[fr33]

But the PEOPLE have shown they want OUR liberty candidates in the GOP primaries and, better yet, in public office.

It doesn't matter what the party wants. Their neoconservative narrative is dying. Let me ask you this. Compared to the (minimum) 7 liberty minded candidates we put in congress this past cycle, what new neocons did they manage to install?No our liberty candidates are nothing compared to the number of non-liberty candidates and voters the GOP harbors. It is ridiculous to keep saying freedom is poplular when they have made it clear they are completely opposed to things like freedom and sovereignty. Freedom isn't popular. Look around you and quit listening to populist propaganda.

[fr33]

they can replace us in no time if they were to organize. the neocons outnumber the liberty lovers. If you didn't learn that already, catch up.

[Mini-Me]

What happens, though, Mini-Me, when the GOP disallows you into their Party because you voted Libertarian? They're great at changing rules on a dime.

Hahaha...they'd have to rescind voter anonymity laws first, and I can only imagine the blowback from that.

[AuH20]

they can replace us in no time if they were to organize. the neocons outnumber the liberty lovers. If you didn't learn that already, catch up.

Neocons don't outnumber liberty lovers. The problem is that they own the place and drive the agenda. There are actually very few neocons but they are entrenched in key positions of the party.

[Mini-Me]

they can replace us in no time if they were to organize. the neocons outnumber the liberty lovers. If you didn't learn that already, catch up.

It's not about the popular vote or even delegates. Taking over the GOP is about local activists taking over the state parties and replacing the RNC, so they can no longer play shenaningans with our delegates in the first place. If you didn't learn that already, catch up. ;) You're trying to argue against a strategy before you even learn what it's about.

Ordinary people don't come to their views through reason and logic. They come to them through social cues, and we're still fringe losers to them...hardly people they'll feel emotionally comfortable listening to. This craving for social acceptance affects everyone to varying degrees on a spectrum, but people like us are on the extreme end of being least affected by it. By replacing the RNC, we'll be making losers out of the neoconservatives and winners out of ourselves, and not only will that allow us to hold fair primaries and fund a LOT more liberty candidates (we absolutely require the resources of a major party to take Congress, btw), but it will also signal a shift in the winds and open more people up to the message. Social proof is what we need to get the majority of Americans to sign on with us...and going third party will promote the exact opposite effect.

[ClydeCoulter]

Neocons don't outnumber liberty lovers. The problem is that they own the place and drive the agenda. There are actually very few neocons but they are entrenched in key positions of the party.

Uhhhhh, you don't know my sister. And she's not even in a political poisition (yet). She's hard core kill them sumbitches before they kill us all (FOx news on steriods).

[fr33]

Correct. The democrat party is the preferred engine that drives the oppressive state in this country. Just look back at the last 100 years.
Look at the presidents elected as well. All pre-selected moderates and progs. The republican party is just the other vessel that has been compromised to make sure important advances are not surrendered.What a load of crap. Since the the 1930's socialist party both the democrats and republicans have installed that long forgotten platform. Yet it happened during a period of time when so called "conservatives" held power.

It's no wonder that "conservatives" fought for the crown during the revolution. It's no wonder that when you throw a conservative dart at the globe you will likely find a political movement that justifies slavery, bigotry, or some other conspiracy. It's no coincidence that taliban members are considered conservative. Ancient cavemen with no solution other than mysticism.

[parocks]

Reagan's stool is 3 types of Conservative (social, military, economic). Romney is a Liberal. I think Romney pissed off conservatives yesterday.



The Republican Party is shoving itself out on the fringe. Today they chopped one leg off of Reagan's 'three-legged stool', and they didn't do themselves a lot of favors with at least one other. Hell, I do believe the Whig Party was in better shape in 1848.

I don't think this discussion is apples and oranges, or Apple and IBM either. I think the only way to take over the G.O.P. is to gut it and rebuild it. The disease runs so deep it pretty much needs an everythingectomy.

When the walls fall, we can storm it. But from what I saw today, I don't think we're going to succeed before then.

[ClydeCoulter]

Reagan's stool is 3 types of Conservative (social, military, economic). Romney is a Liberal. I think Romney pissed off conservatives yesterday.

What conservitives did he piss off? Did you watch CNN or FOX duing the RNC? Talking heads telling people what to think. Only CSpan (that I know of) showed the whole thing without continous comentary.

[acptulsa]

Reagan's stool is 3 types of Conservative (social, military, economic). Romney is a Liberal. I think Romney pissed off conservatives yesterday.

No doubt about that. But the military 'leg' will forgive that warmonger anything. They're nowhere near numerous enough to hand him the election. But they'll forgive him.

[fr33]

What happens, though, Mini-Me, when the GOP disallows you into their Party because you voted Libertarian? They're great at changing rules on a dime.They think they are welcome when it's been proven they are not.

[fr33]

Not that I'm really advocating it, but just a thought. Maybe next time around we should work the Democrat angle. We've planted the seeds in the Republican party, but maybe we just need the other piece of the puzzle for people to see the full picture. ARGGGG do you not have enough bile in your mouth? Are you addicted to liars? Why the fuck can't we for once be who we actually are? libertarians. There is no reason right now to support the Obamas or Romneys.

Why the hell must we be a group suffering to democrats or republicans?

We agree more with libertarians and that's a fact.

[parocks]

I'm a Tea Party / Liberty conservative voter. Judging by the amount of angry comments against Romney on other websites, ie. Malkin, Rush, Levin, and The Free Republic, I can see a merging of Ron Paul and Tea Party forces in the near future to secure our US Constitution from destruction by the Romney RINO machine.

Me too, I never really thought there was any great big difference between Ron Paul and Tea Party. I mean, inventing it and everything is part of that.

I think I'll check out FR. Palin would've won if she had run, and Ron Paul would've been the ideal VP. They would've complimented each other so well.

[CaptainAmerica]

1. Take over all positions in your state legislative districts
2.Build alliances with others who are pissed off about Mccain and Romney being progressive nominees
3.Meet your state representatives from your district and let them know that your presence is there and that you really won't back down from principles (They know we have great motivation to support or come against their campaigns in election cycles)
4. Change the rules at the state level by becoming state GOP committee members
5.Bring fair and balanced rules and platform to the state GOP
6.in 2016 remove all RNC committee members by electing Ron Paul voters into the RNC
7.Our Ron Paul RNC members can then remove the Romney RNC(his lawyers mainly) mandated rules that allow the nominee to dictate who can be a delegate

[TheTexan]

ARGGGG do you not have enough bile in your mouth? Are you addicted to liars? Why the fuck can't we for once be who we actually are? libertarians. There is no reason right now to support the Obamas or Romneys.

Why the hell must we be a group suffering to democrats or republicans?

We agree more with libertarians and that's a fact.

Shrug. The way I see it, is our 2007 effort inspired the Tea Party. Yes, the vast majority of the TP is a crock of shit. Yes, they drop words like 'constitution' from their mouth, like shit from ass. But it's still kinda nifty, from an intellectual point of view, that we did that.

I also believe that there has to be at least 5 or 6 of them that actually mean what they say. Maybe 7.

If we could do the same thing for the Democrat party, and create a Democrat-colored Tea Party, it would simply be hilarious to watch both parties argue about how it's so important to follow the constitution... and then neither party does it.

The cognitive dissonance would reach astronomical levels. I think some heads would explode.

[AuH20]

Uhhhhh, you don't know my sister. And she's not even in a political poisition (yet). She's hard core kill them sumbitches before they kill us all (FOx news on steriods).

But she's not intellectually driven like a Neoconservative. Most people have no idea about the core philosophy of neoconservatism. I suspect your sister is attracted to the vengeance aspect, which I can understand, as opposed to this grand master plan in which the U.S. is utilized as the prime vehicle to convert the far reaches of the world into a highly regimented cash register.

[Sola_Fide]

Quitting our activism within the GOP is exactly what the current RNC wants. It's why they did what they did today: Emotional manipulation to depress us and make us shrink away and splinter off into ineffective third parties...because they know that if we stay in this and take over the GOP state parties, they're screwed. They simply do not have the same numbers of people willing to get actively involved in local party politics that we do, and that is why they fear us and desperately try to push us away. Don't fall for it.

Yep

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I'm for destroying it. You folks have no clue. After all the shit. From blatant ousting of FLGOP Paulians (elected officials mind you), to all sorts of shenanigans for the last 30+ years...You'd have to be a masochist to remain attached to the scum of the Earth. It's like trying to infiltrate the Smoking Man group in the X-Files. No. You shed light to the truth and destroy them. So, my goal, is to defeat every GOP politician I can, with exception to the actual liberty-types.

Of course your mileage may vary depending on your state. FLGOP is among the most corrupt. Makes Romney look like child's play.

[parocks]

Quitting our activism within the GOP is exactly what the current RNC wants. It's why they did what they did today: Emotional manipulation to depress us and make us shrink away and splinter off into ineffective third parties...because they know that if we stay in this and take over the GOP state parties, they're screwed. They simply do not have the same numbers of people willing to get actively involved in local party politics that we do, and that is why they fear us and desperately try to push us away. Don't fall for it.

yeah

[fj45lvr]

the party is nothing without the people that make it up. Most of those people are true ENEMIES worthy of being destroyed by whatever means possible....of course it would be GREAT if they were somehow educated and experienced a revival (like many have over the years), but the fact remains that designing people use the party to further their evil agenda to the peril of our property, liberty and security and doing so deserve to be ousted and destroyed regardless of any political party...

[fj45lvr]

secession is the route to go, nationalism sucks everywhere....

[TheTexan]

secession is the route to go, nationalism sucks everywhere....

This x hundred 1000 trillion

[parocks]

The only way to do that is to give Obama a landslide victory by all our forces committing to vote for Obama for one and one reason only;
REVENGE!

That should do it. Otherwise you get to keep the Republican party you currently have.

No, you take State GOPs County GOPs. Obama has been a terrible President. I can't be voting for a President I know will be terrible.

Here's the thing, and it's simple.

You get the majority on state committee, that lets you pick the Chairman. And then you can do what you want. You've taken it over (that was easy)
now what? Destroy it? Or just do what you want, and if you want to destroy RINOs do it. If you are the Chairman of the State GOP, you are in the best position of all to destroy the GOP. Getting people who want a career in politics, or have a career in politics for that Chairman spot has problems. That person is not likely to be bold
enough. Will be afraid to burn bridges. We're the underdog. We're not likely to win. The belief that everyone is for us, or would be if we just explained it right is wrong.
So we can't just slowly plod along in a predictable manner. Our electoral victories become targets that we have to defend. Are we winning a lot now? A lot of Liberty candidates getting elected. Some, not too many. I wouldn't worry about increasing that number. How about brutalizing the other factions. Remember Karl Rove attacking Christine O'Donnell? You knock out every faction but your own. And really cream your opponents. So you lose every race, or you win as many as you did before. Just attack GOP. The county committees hold elections for state committees at rock clubs at 11pm. You basically want to do everything you can until everyone who is not with you is on the sidelines. Oh no, the Democrats win. Well, if the Rs and the Ds are the same as we say they are, you won't have any difference in outcomes between the 2. So, your party is kicking out the people you don't like, when they're gone, you're done, and you pretty much can do what you want in terms of picking candidates.

Eh, that's basically just random ideas. I haven't fully figured it out. Slow plodding and safe, lacking creativity, working with the existing people to reach consensus. None of that. Crazy vicious brutal shit. Try that. The Establishment knows how to do what it does very well. But it doesn't seem to respond well to novel circumstances. Fast pasted, novel circumstances.

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

I'm a Tea Party / Liberty conservative voter. Judging by the amount of angry comments against Romney on other websites, ie. Malkin, Rush, Levin, and The Free Republic, I can see a merging of Ron Paul and Tea Party forces in the near future to secure our US Constitution from destruction by the Romney RINO machine.

You Tea Party folks are too late for 2012. I know that because I used to be one! Tea Party folks are going to be too busy at Support the Troops rallies during the coming conflict in Iran - you, know, grilling hot dogs and playing horseshoes and the like.

[Feeding the Abscess]

Thomas Jefferson was not a Republican.

Teddy Roosevelt was, and he's the first president to be part of the modern progressive movement.




Being a fan of both Harding and Coolidge, I call b.s. Those who refuse to learn from history shouldn't try to teach it. Do you seriously think the Roaring Twenties were a result of government meddling in the economy?

Please read America's Great Depression before telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. You can read it for free here:

http://mises.org/rothbard/agd.pdf

[ProBlue33]

If an Apple is 90% rotten do even try to save it ?
The 10% good part, the Ron Paul people can't save it, why, they just keep changing the rules so that they get the result they want, and these new rules have made it so what happened in 2012 can never happen again, the RNC fraud, cheating and undemocratic tactics to their base is there end.
If you still think the likes of Rand can save it, it's a political fantasy. Local level maybe is different, but federal, forget it.

GOP 2012 RIP

[BSU kid]

I wonder if I should move to NH upon getting my degree, at least I can live in an enclave of RP idealists in this rapidly sinking company.

[FSP-Rebel]

If an Apple is 90% rotten do even try to save it ?
The 10% good part, the Ron Paul people can't save it, why, they just keep changing the rules so that they get the result they want, and these new rules have made it so what happened in 2012 can never happen again, the RNC fraud, cheating and undemocratic tactics to their base is there end.
If you still think the likes of Rand can save it, it's a political fantasy. Local level maybe is different, but federal, forget it.

GOP 2012 RIP
That ~90% of the party insiders can change especially when state delegates pick the national committeepersons, who are in charge of voting on rule changes, at their respective state conventions. Now is the time to be networking with fellow conservatives to have a coalition in place for the next convention where either the leadership is picked or Nat'l comm folk are. In one fell swoop, you can oust the leadership or you can get one or both of the nat'l comm spots like we did here in Mich back in May. If we can do it, anywhere can if you're organized and have coalitions on your side. Our leadership change will happen in Feb at our next state convention and many thx to the RNC for pissing off grassroots conservatives round here making our job easier. When we have a decent number of state parties under our wings, we can withhold support for the national party if they don't lighten up on their top down control. They can't toss out state party leadership just because they don't like it and they won't try it because it will be the worst PR ever and no precedent to my mind.

[WilliamShrugged]

I wonder if I should move to NH upon getting my degree, at least I can live in an enclave of RP idealists in this rapidly sinking company. Do it! I just left Idaho less than a month ago. I will be moving there down the road. Idaho cares more about religion than it does freedom. Plus the state has too many taxes for a red state. I have lived in NV, TX, ID and i can tell you that a state without a state income tax makes me fell a lot better than one with. Now just imagine NH's tax policy compared to than states with a income, sales, and property tax.