I have a serious question

[Origanalist]

And it is this, what will the world look like in twenty years if half the liberty movement folds up tent and decides this is it? They won, we can't beat them?

And conversly, what will the world look like if the whole movement decides ok, look how they are in a panic, were making an impact. Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes?

[tod evans]

My chrystal ball's been on the fritz for years...:o

Worse case scenario if the damn the torpedoes approach is followed would be martial law with the dissidents locked up...or dead..

Best case we'd institute some real change.

[RickyJ]

I don't think they can be beat playing the game by their rules when they can change the rules anytime they want to and then just go ahead and do what they want to do regardless of what happens. I don't think there is a peaceful solution to America's problems. I wish there was, but I don't see it.

[Cleaner44]

The more the corrupt tighten their grip, the more they expose themselves and lose their grip. Their power depends upon acceptance and that erodes the more they exert it. In 20 years the divide between the statists and those that oppose them will be bigger and more glaring.

[Origanalist]

The more the corrupt tighten their grip, the more they expose themselves and lose their grip. Their power depends upon acceptance and that erodes the more they exert it. In 20 years the divide between the statists and those that oppose them will be bigger and more glaring.

Soviet Union anyone?

[pcosmar]

And it is this, what will the world look like in twenty years if half the liberty movement folds up tent and decides this is it? They won, we can't beat them?

And conversly, what will the world look like if the whole movement decides ok, look how they are in a panic, were making an impact. Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes?

Twenty years??



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy7FVXERKFE

Those who panic, Die first

[Seraphim]

Liberty NEVER folds up the tent and calls it quits. Never. Not once in the history of this species has that happened. Have some (or even most) quit? Yes. But it never burns out, there is always a smoldering coal somewhere, even in the darkest of times.

[WilliamShrugged]

I disagree that the movement just folds. Remember, the libertarian party was created in 1971. Ron Paul was a no name in the 70's. Look at what the internet has done. Now will this change a nation? No, not yet. But what about States? I would of been weary of NH in the 80's or 90's. Now i see potential of it becoming a liberty friendly state. We just need people to commit and do the work. Focus less on the Nation and more on your town and State.

[flynn]

Liberty NEVER folds up the tent and calls it quits. Never. Not once in the history of this species has that happened. Have some (or even most) quit? Yes. But it never burns out, there is always a smoldering coal somewhere, even in the darkest of times.

If liberty gives up, so is the human race.

[Anti Federalist]

And it is this, what will the world look like in twenty years if half the liberty movement folds up tent and decides this is it? They won, we can't beat them?

And conversly, what will the world look like if the whole movement decides ok, look how they are in a panic, were making an impact. Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes?

I've always had my doubts about affecting any real change through the corrupt and broken political process.

That's not to say that the fight cannot go on, on many different levels.

I think one thing has to be understood however, something that a great many "liberty folks" do not or refuse to understand.

Most people do not want freedom.

Never have, never will.

They want, what people have wanted from the beginning of time: to be fed, entertained and to exercise petty power over their fellow man.

Waiting for a "mass awakening" is a fool's errand, AFAIC.

If we, the narrow minority of refuseniks, want freedom, we will be forced to take it, and the rest will follow along, grudgingly.

Or they will leave.

Either way, it will not be our problem.

[ZENemy]

IMHO; The entire matrix trilogy is about one thing:

Choice

Humanity will always fight for the right to choose, in my opinion its why every single government that tries to put in place the tyranny that we are seeing fails, over and over again. The drive for liberty can never be wiped out, it can be hidden, abused and swept under the rug yet it will remain. Now; after a bunch of fluoride, vaccines, dna modifying before or at birth and human programing via propaganda we might be in trouble.

The technology that will exist in less then 10 (or less, or now) years could enslave us for 100's of years to come simply because of the false reality technology allows and how very convinced our public will be that liberty is dangerous and extreme.

I think its imperative we get through this technological shift with a libertarian mindset or it be a LONG time before the next Ron Paul is able to even eeek a word without electroshock via a cell phone tower and key word.

[erowe1]

I'm pessimistic about politics. But I don't have a better suggestion right now. I definitely think we need to put more energy and money into education. But political involvement can be a part of that.

[Origanalist]

IMHO; The entire matrix trilogy is about one thing:

Choice

Humanity will always fight for the right to choose, in my opinion its why every single government that tries to put in place the tyranny that we are seeing fails, over and over again. The drive for liberty can never be wiped out, it can be hidden, abused and swept under the rug yet it will remain. Now; after a bunch of fluoride, vaccines, dna modifying before or at birth and human programing via propaganda we might be in trouble.

The technology that will exist in less then 10 (or less, or now) years could enslave us for 100's of years to come simply because of the false reality technology allows and how very convinced our public will be that liberty is dangerous and extreme.

I think its imperative we get through this technological shift with a libertarian mindset or it be a LONG time before the next Ron Paul is able to even eeek a word without electroshock via a cell phone tower and key word.

I think you're right. Now is definitely not the time to passively accept.

[Origanalist]

I've always had my doubts about affecting any real change through the corrupt and broken political process.

That's not to say that the fight cannot go on, on many different levels.

I think one thing has to be understood however, something that a great many "liberty folks" do not or refuse to understand.

Most people do not want freedom.

Never have, never will.

They want, what people have wanted from the beginning of time: to be fed, entertained and to exercise petty power over their fellow man.

Waiting for a "mass awakening" is a fool's errand, AFAIC.

If we, the narrow minority of refuseniks, want freedom, we will be forced to take it, and the rest will follow along, grudgingly.

Or they will leave.

Either way, it will not be our problem.

And so it has always been.

[oyarde]

In 2032 ? , I have no idea ....

[Origanalist]

In 2032 ? , I have no idea ....

I don't know. I have a feeeling you're in my age group (born in 58). Twenty years ago did you think we would be where we are now? Thirty years ago?

[JSaindon]

And it is this, what will the world look like in twenty years if half the liberty movement folds up tent and decides this is it? They won, we can't beat them?

And conversly, what will the world look like if the whole movement decides ok, look how they are in a panic, were making an impact. Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes?

Then liberty lovers need to join a party and change it from the inside.

[Origanalist]

Then liberty lovers need to join a party and change it from the inside.

I think that's what we're trying to do? :confused:

The trick is herding all the cats in the same direction.:p

[pcosmar]

Then liberty lovers need to join a party and change it from the inside.

That assumes that those at the top who own and control the party give a damn what the people in it think or want.

It is quite apparent that they don't.

[oyarde]

I don't know. I have a feeeling you're in my age group (born in 58). Twenty years ago did you think we would be where we are now? Thirty years ago? Good point , no , I thought the demise would be slower than it really has been , looking at the debt , say , 1971 , say 2007 and at 2025 . Things have accelerated beyond my imagination and I cannot predict the outcome , but , to me, does not look good ... Yeah we are close in age.