BREAKING: Mass shooting outside empire state building [Archive]

tangent4ronpaul

08-24-2012, 08:23 AM

The plot thickens...

http://liveblog.washingtonpost.com/2012/08/24/empire-state-building-shooting/?Dsk

Meanwhile, in Chicago...

19 people were shot in Chicago last night, prompting some on Twitter to point out the lack of media attention (as compared to the ESB shooting) and prompting others to comment on gun violence in general.

Dylan Byers @DylanByers

CHICAGO: AP -- Police say 19 people were shot in Chicago on Thursday night and early Friday.
24 Aug 12

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Ernesto @e_hdz_

I guess 19 people shot in Chicago isn't as flashy as 9 being shot near the Empire State building.
24 Aug 12

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Nina @zarenina

Several people shot outside of the Empire State Building in NYC around 9am... And 19 people shot across Chicago overnight. Awful.
24 Aug 12

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Elma Placeres Dieppa @mzelma

19 injured last night in Chicago (over 2,000 this year), a gunman just shot 4? ppl outside the Empire State Bldg, now dead... lawd help us.

(umm, wait! - doesn't Chicago have uber-strict gun control laws too? How could this happen???)

-t

pcosmar

08-24-2012, 08:29 AM

The plot thickens...

http://liveblog.washingtonpost.com/2012/08/24/empire-state-building-shooting/?Dsk

(umm, wait! - doesn't Chicago have uber-strict gun control laws too? How could this happen???)

-t

I saw that,,and discounted it immediately as a bunch of anonymous posters talking shit they know nothing about.

To Start with,,
This was not a "mass Shooting" unless you count the mindless blasting away NYC Cops are known for.

This was NOT a random Shooting.. The man was a fired employee (From reports so far) out for revenge and targeting the employer.

And injury from Cop Bullets will not likely make the "news",, but will all be blamed on the suspect.

tangent4ronpaul

08-24-2012, 08:33 AM

I saw that,,and discounted it immediately as a bunch of anonymous posters talking shit they know nothing about.

Google twice, spout once...

19 people shot in overnight shootings across Chicago
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-shootings-chicago-violence-august-23-august-24-violence-gunfire-20120823,0,49779.story

Nineteen people were shot across the South and West sides from Thursday evening through early Friday morning -- 13 of them wounded over a 30-minute period, authorities say.

The overnight shootings peaked between 9:15 p.m. and 9:45 p.m. That's when eight people, many of them teens, were shot at 79th Street and Essex Avenue about 9:30 p.m.

Then two men were wounded in the Ida B. Wells / Darrow Homes complex at about 9:25 p.m., police said. The men, 27 and 33, were shot in the 600 block of East 37th Street and taken to the University of Chicago Hospitals, police said. The younger man was shot in the head and the other in the right arm, Gaines said.

Around the same time, two other men were wounded in the arms in a drive-by shooting in the 2900 block of West 39th Place in the Brighton Park neighborhood.

About 15 minutes later, a 24-year-old man was shot in the leg and taken to Jackson Park Hospital from the 7200 block of South Jeffery Boulevard, Gaines said. He was treated and released. The man told police he was talking on his phone when he heard a single shot and realized he was wounded.

Earlier Thursday evening, four men were wounded in a shooting in the Little Village neighborhood about 5:20 p.m. Thursday, police said.

They were walking in the 3200 block of South Kedzie Avenue when at least one person inside a vehicle with three others opened fire, police said, hitting the group. Three 19-year-olds and a 22-year-old were wounded.

Just after midnight, a 17-year-old was shot in the back and taken to Stroger Hospital in serious condition, police said. He was walking in the 7100 block of South Vincennes Avenue in the Englewood neighborhood when someone inside a passing car opened fire, police said.

Another 17-year-old was shot after 1:30 a.m. Friday in the 3500 block of West Grenshaw Street in the Homan Square neighborhood. He's in good condition at Mount Sinai Hospital. Someone walked to him and started shooting, police said.

-t

fisharmor

08-24-2012, 08:33 AM

The Gold Standard

08-24-2012, 08:35 AM

DHS surely has more of these planned. They will keep coming until the public outcry is for the government to take away their guns.

pcosmar

08-24-2012, 08:42 AM

Google twice, spout once...

19 people shot in overnight shootings across Chicago
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-shootings-chicago-violence-august-23-august-24-violence-gunfire-20120823,0,49779.story

-t

And that is multiple incidents,, and I suspect,, Drug War related.
Not Random,, nor single shooter.

The Washington Blog also had the NY Shooting at 9 victims..

It is a bunch of random anons talking shit.

donnay

08-24-2012, 08:45 AM

And to think Mark David Chapman was up for parole yesterday. . .

tangent4ronpaul

08-24-2012, 08:50 AM

Firearm technology has hardly changed in 100 years.
50 years ago there were very few restrictions on ownership and possession.
This sort of thing also didn't happen then.
There is logically no way avoid the fact that there is some other reason for these things happening.

When everyone, or at least most people are armed, it provides a significant deterrent against these things happening. Everywhere that "shal issue" CCW has gone through has seen an immediate drop in violent crime.

http://www.bluecorncomics.com/pics/911guns.jpg

-t

WilliamShrugged

08-24-2012, 08:51 AM

How is this even possible in your city, Mayor Bloomberg????:rolleyes:

Gun control advocates will argue that even though NYC bans it, the US as a whole still has guns so it can easily cross through the State. They will argue for a national ban, then a global one. Because guns are violence to them. Yet they're okay with guns being used aggressively against gun owners.

tangent4ronpaul

08-24-2012, 08:58 AM

Gun control advocates will argue that even though NYC bans it, the US as a whole still has guns so it can easily cross through the State. They will argue for a national ban, then a global one. Because guns are violence to them. Yet they're okay with guns being used aggressively against gun owners.

More than drugs can cross the southern border. The cartels get rocket launchers, grenades, machine guns and explosives from south america.

-t

pcosmar

08-24-2012, 09:20 AM

More than drugs can cross the southern border. The cartels get rocket launchers, grenades, machine guns and explosives from south america.

-t

Shit,,they get them From the US Government.
Our government created the Los Zetas,, to stir shit. they do the same in Cities in the US. Arming one gang against the next.

You don't really think that street Kids are buying Full auto Mac10s from major arms dealers without help..??
It is not poor black kids that invented crack or managed shipments from Columbia.

No,, That shit is dropped in their neighborhoods,, and for reasons that go beyond. "supply and demand"

AuH20

08-24-2012, 10:00 AM

Police officers respondng to the scene ACCIDENTALLY wounded passers-by. :confused: +1 for responsible gun ownership in the hands of the authorities.

shane77m

08-24-2012, 10:38 AM

Police officers respondng to the scene ACCIDENTALLY wounded passers-by. :confused: +1 for responsible gun ownership in the hands of the authorities.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_EMPIRE_STATE_BUILDING_SHOOTING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-08-24-11-49-15

The victims must have startled the police.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?386975-Deputy-quot-Well-I-m-sorry-%28I-shot-you%29-you-startled-me

tangent4ronpaul

08-24-2012, 10:40 AM

You don't really think that street Kids are buying Full auto Mac10s from major arms dealers without help..??

The Mac 10 is the easiest firearm to convert from semi-auto to full auto. You can do it with a file. The Doberty siblings did this.

http://nazarian.no/images/wep/176_Mac-10_Full-Auto.pdf

-t

asurfaholic

08-24-2012, 10:42 AM

One of the many reasons I will never live in a large city.

DGambler

08-24-2012, 11:00 AM

I wonder how many were shot by police. ???

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_EMPIRE_STATE_BUILDING_SHOOTING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-08-24-11-49-15

Police killed the suspect and at least nine others were wounded, some possibly by police gunfire, city officials said.

Anti Federalist

08-24-2012, 11:18 AM

Police killed the suspect and at least nine others were wounded, some possibly by police gunfire, city officials said.

Circular Force Continuum.

Officer Safety.

Combat Quals.

You are "collateral damage" Mundane, and don't you forget it.

This is the response from NYC's finest, that supposedly has it's own army to "combat terrorism"?

pcosmar

08-24-2012, 11:36 AM

And admitted..
That is a surprising turn of events.

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

08-24-2012, 11:45 AM

And admitted..
That is a surprising turn of events.

They admitted it in Miami awhile back too. I guess we're supposed to get used to it.

Razmear

08-24-2012, 11:47 AM

A construction worker who witnessed the shooting followed the suspect and then alerted police who were posted nearby. As the officers approached Johnson, he pulled his gun and fired on the officers. They returned fire and killed him, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg said.

None of the other people who were shot were seriously wounded and they are all expected to recover. Some of those wounded may have been hit by police gunfire, Bloomberg said.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/multiple-people-hit-shooting-near-empire-state-building-133611266.html

So dude kills his boss for being downsized, attempts suicide by cop, and the cops hit an extra 7 people in the process.
Thats my take on the story.

acptulsa

08-24-2012, 12:00 PM

Um, yeah - I thought guns were illegal in NYC... how could this have possibly happened in a gun free zone?

-t

Couldn't happen here. Psychos don't get nine shots before the return fire starts in this state. They can consider themselves lucky to get two off.

Oh, and the cops around here may not be much, but they can shoot accurately. Have to--otherwise they get shown up by the civillians.

Razmear

08-24-2012, 12:07 PM

Couldn't happen here. Psychos don't get nine shots before the return fire starts in this state.
The 'Psycho' got 3 shots off, all on target into his former boss.
The remaining shots were fired by police.
Looks like the shooter had a 1911, 7 shot .45 cal, that left him 4 bullets after killing his boss. Willing to bet they are all still in the clip.

Cowlesy

08-24-2012, 12:17 PM

Boy am I lucky I didn't come into work late today, because I walked right where this all happened about 15 minutes prior, whew!

John F Kennedy III

08-24-2012, 12:25 PM

Boy am I lucky I didn't come into work late today, because I walked right where this all happened about 15 minutes prior, whew!

Seriously?

Glad you're ok.

Anti Federalist

08-24-2012, 12:26 PM

Boy am I lucky I didn't come into work late today, because I walked right where this all happened about 15 minutes prior, whew!

Hit the dirt!!!

Glad you're OK brother.

pcosmar

08-24-2012, 12:27 PM

Boy am I lucky I didn't come into work late today, because I walked right where this all happened about 15 minutes prior, whew!

Yeah,, those "what if" questions will boggle.

I still advise any and everyone to get the hell out,, while you can.

John F Kennedy III

08-24-2012, 12:33 PM

Empire State Building Shooting: More Fodder for Gun-grabbers

Infowars.com
August 24, 2012

A suspect with what CNN describes as a “large gun” was killed by police after he apparently shot ten people outside New York City’s Empire State Building this morning. Witnesses described the weapon as a “sawed-off shotgun.”

Police say the shooting is not terror related. “The Post said the shooting stemmed from a dispute between co-workers. The paper’s Web site said it was unclear what sparked the deadly argument,” according to the Washington Post.

New York’s mayor Michael Bloomberg will undoubtedly exploit the tragedy and call for further restrictions on the Second Amendment.

Government gun-grabbers will once again emerge from the woodwork and call for outlawing firearms as details of the murder swirl around a sensationalism hungry establishment media still salivating over the Sikh temple and Colorado theater murders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uMxP-5Bbis4

Root

08-24-2012, 12:42 PM

In NYC, it takes two cops to kill one man.

The gunman was shot and killed by two officers. New York Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said during a Friday news conference that the people wounded in the shootout suffered non-life-threatening injuries. Some of those injured may have been accidentally shot by the officers, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57499732/multiple-people-shot-near-empire-state-building/?tag=cbsContent;cbsCarousel

liveandletlive

08-24-2012, 12:57 PM

i agree on the gan ban in NY, too high a population density, stray bullets can kill innocent people even if the shooter uses a gun in self defense

belian78

08-24-2012, 01:35 PM

i agree on the gan ban in NY, too high a population density, stray bullets can kill innocent people even if the shooter uses a gun in self defense

So how do you square the fact that, studies show where more civilians carried, there was much less gun violence overall?

jonhowe

08-24-2012, 02:04 PM

This is a fairly cut and dry case, except that it happened in front of a major NYC landmark (and just blocks from my work!). If the same string of events happened in Harlem, no one would have batted an eye

Guy shoots other guy. Guy points gun at cops. Cops blow him away.
At least he wasn't holding a KNIFE like that guy last week, they would have nuked the place.

Also, wtf is with Foxnews putting un-blurred images of the victims brains oozing out of his head at the top of their front page?? I don't want to see that, especially without warning...

pcosmar

08-24-2012, 03:04 PM

This is a fairly cut and dry case,

Only part is cut and dry. Only part is being focused on.
One man killed another man..No stray rounds,,no random shooting,, a dispute that was settled violently..
Cut and dry. Police killed the attacker.

the rather fuzzy part is all the other victims,, shot by police firing randomly into a crowd of people.
A brief mention,,

Cowlesy

08-24-2012, 03:13 PM

Took some snaps on my way home tonight.

Here is a shot of the news media -- there are satellite trucks up and down 5th Ave.

http://i.imgur.com/4IdbVl.jpg

Red Cross Disaster Relief truck on the scene.

http://i.imgur.com/z5Ewyl.jpg

Cleaning up the after-math with a push-broom.

http://i.imgur.com/dxobgl.jpg

Crime scene unit

http://i.imgur.com/7MvOnl.jpg

madengr

08-24-2012, 08:44 PM

From what I have read, the shooter had a .45 with a 7 round magazine. 5 rounds were put into his boss. The cops recovered 1 round in the magazine and 1 in the chamber. That means no shots were fired at the cops, and all 9 bystanders were shot by cops. How is Bloomberg going to spin this? How man cops were shooting and how many 20 round magazines were emptied? Wanna bet over 100 rounds were "sprayed" by the cops, for 9 people to be shot?

The NYPD is notorious for shit like this. Emptying several magazines with very low hit/miss ratio. Remember the dude they shot through the car window. They shot something like 300 rounds and hit him 20 times?

One witness tells police that Johnson fired at officers before being killed, but authorities say ballistics evidence so far doesn't support that.
They say Johnson's .45-caliber weapon held seven rounds. He fired five times at Ercolino, killing him. One round was still in the gun, and one was ejected when officers secured it.
"This was a terrible tragedy," Bloomberg said during a press conference. "We are not immune to the national problem of gun violence."
Bloomberg said Johnson was laid off about a year ago from Hazan Imports, a women's accessories store located near the Empire State Building. Ercolino worked as a vice president of sales for the company, according to his LinkedIn.com profile.*

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/24/multiple-people-shot-near-empire-state-building-in-manhattan-police-say/?test=latestnews#ixzz24WRWqMXn

thoughtomator

08-24-2012, 08:46 PM

I have heard the same, that other than the shooter and his intended target, every other victim was shot by police.

madengr

08-24-2012, 08:57 PM

Which means the domestic terrorism was performed by law enforcement.

This story is being buried by TPTB. It was hyped as another mass shooting, which it is, but it doesn't fit their gun control agenda. Looks like the NYPD needs some gun control.

aGameOfThrones

08-24-2012, 09:28 PM

Just saw the CCTV video of police shooting him.

Anti Federalist

08-24-2012, 09:29 PM

i agree on the gan ban in NY, too high a population density, stray bullets can kill innocent people even if the shooter uses a gun in self defense

LOL then you better include the cops.

(And since when did rights become secondary to perceived safety?)

It's looking more and more like the innocent people that were shot, were shot by cops freaking out and unloading into the crowd.

NYPD: No evidence yet gunman fired at officers

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2012/08/24/gunman-kills-wounds-empire-state-building/MtJLo4JhtdT2kGgSH1yv5J/story.html?camp=obinsite

NEW YORK (AP) — Investigators say the evidence collected so far suggests that a laid off clothing designer who shot a former colleague near the Empire State Building didn’t fire at police.

The gunman was shot by police, and nine bystanders were wounded.

One witness tells police that Jeffrey Johnson fired at officers, but authorities say ballistics evidence so far doesn’t support that.

They say Johnson’s .45-caliber weapon held seven rounds. He fired five times at Steven Ercolino, killing him. One round was still in the gun, and one was ejected when officers secured it.

The nine bystanders hit by gunfire when police took down Johnson are expected to survive. They suffered graze wounds or other minor injuries.

aGameOfThrones

08-24-2012, 09:32 PM

LOL then you better include the cops.

(And since when did rights become secondary to perceived safety?)

It's looking more and more like the innocent people that were shot, were shot by cops freaking out and unloading into the crowd.

NYPD: No evidence yet gunman fired at officers

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2012/08/24/gunman-kills-wounds-empire-state-building/MtJLo4JhtdT2kGgSH1yv5J/story.html?camp=obinsite

NEW YORK (AP) — Investigators say the evidence collected so far suggests that a laid off clothing designer who shot a former colleague near the Empire State Building didn’t fire at police.

The gunman was shot by police, and nine bystanders were wounded.

One witness tells police that Jeffrey Johnson fired at officers, but authorities say ballistics evidence so far doesn’t support that.

They say Johnson’s .45-caliber weapon held seven rounds. He fired five times at Steven Ercolino, killing him. One round was still in the gun, and one was ejected when officers secured it.

The nine bystanders hit by gunfire when police took down Johnson are expected to survive. They suffered graze wounds or other minor injuries.

From the video it seems Johnson pointed the gun at the police, but damn that was crowded.

aGameOfThrones

08-24-2012, 09:38 PM

Damn, those 2 cops can't shoot for sh*t.

Anti Federalist

08-24-2012, 09:38 PM

From the video it seems Johnson pointed the gun at the police, but damn that was crowded.

Collateral damage.

Combat Quals.

Circular Force Continuum.

aGameOfThrones

08-24-2012, 09:39 PM

Collateral damage.

Combat Quals.

Circular Force Continuum.

Have you seen the video?

HOLLYWOOD

08-24-2012, 09:52 PM

Depends on the lies/propaganda that government/corporations want to push... look what RT reported today. Did you see this plastered on fascist media airwaves today? Oh... look over there at that shiny light serfs... yeah, that's the one we want y'all focused upon.

Windy City rampage: 19 shot overnight in Chicago
Published: 24 August, 2012, 20:55
http://rt.com/files/usa/news/shooting-chicago-newyork-homicide-505/video-still-wgn.n.jpg

http://rt.com/usa/news/shooting-chicago-newyork-homicide-505/

Americans turned to New York early Friday for a dose of doom and gloom, but the murder scene outside of the Empire State Building wasn’t the only mass shooting site in the country during the last few hours. In Chicago, 19 people were shot overnight.

In the midst of a surge in shootings in the Windy City that have occurred in recent weeks, police officers in Chicago, Illinois were once again busy responding to reports of shots fired late Thursday and into early the next day.
Two 14-year-old boys, one 15-year-old boy and a 19-year-old woman are among the injured in Chicago last evening after a drive-by shooting in the city’s South Side shortly after 9 p.m. sent eight people to the hospital.

Razmear

08-24-2012, 11:17 PM

Just saw the CCTV video of police shooting him.

Link?

aGameOfThrones

08-24-2012, 11:26 PM

Link?

http://www.prochan.com/embed?f=619_1345857956

Anti Federalist

08-24-2012, 11:54 PM

Have you seen the video?

No, I can not watch videos where I am.

What am I missing?

Anti Federalist

08-24-2012, 11:55 PM

Where guns are banned.

Depends on the lies/propaganda that government/corporations want to push... look what RT reported today. Did you see this plastered on fascist media airwaves today? Oh... look over there at that shiny light serfs... yeah, that's the one we want y'all focused upon.

Windy City rampage: 19 shot overnight in Chicago
Published: 24 August, 2012, 20:55
http://rt.com/files/usa/news/shooting-chicago-newyork-homicide-505/video-still-wgn.n.jpg

http://rt.com/usa/news/shooting-chicago-newyork-homicide-505/

aGameOfThrones

08-25-2012, 12:14 AM

No, I can not watch videos where I am.

What am I missing?

Gang members shooting indiscriminately.

HOLLYWOOD

08-25-2012, 12:39 AM

Where guns are banned. Watched the local evening FOX NEWS: NYC shootings were 100% reported as if the boss killer had a shootout with everyone on the streets with 9 reported wounded before police killed the shooter @ the Empire State building, Absolutely misleading the viewers with huge lies... Another example of the Orwellian News channels across the nation.

Now here's something on Chicago August stats... but Michael Bloomberg and media lies about New York shooter is the top story across America.

Chicago’s Red Eye newspaper reports that 15 people were killed in the city during the week ending August 22, including six homicides occurring at one point on a single day. At the time, the city reported 40 homicides in the month of August, already surpassing last year’s tally of 37 with still two weeks to spare.

coastie

08-25-2012, 01:42 AM

Gang members shooting indiscriminately.

Who were they shooting at? IS the guy that drops the shooter? If so, the cop in the foreground is damn lucky he didn't get shot, he is shooting in the complete opposite direction his partner was shooting, his partner was the one that dropped the guy who falls.

They seemed confused as to who they were looking for/shooting at.

Very strange.

ETA: If anyone can load this up to youtube that would be fantastic, I only have youtube downloader and no other vid capture software works on my compouter for some reason. It's not on youtube as of right now.

Henry Rogue

08-25-2012, 08:50 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=N7LjPpL6dnY
NYPD training video

aGameOfThrones

08-25-2012, 09:09 AM

Who were they shooting at? IS the guy that drops the shooter? If so, the cop in the foreground is damn lucky he didn't get shot, he is shooting in the complete opposite direction his partner was shooting, his partner was the one that dropped the guy who falls.

They seemed confused as to who they were looking for/shooting at.

Very strange.

ETA: If anyone can load this up to youtube that would be fantastic, I only have youtube downloader and no other vid capture software works on my compouter for some reason. It's not on youtube as of right now.

Yeah, the guy in the suit. It's like they're professional f**k-ups. I also saw pictures of the crime scene, is it standard to take off all the suspect's cloths right there on the spot? I mean, they left him naked.

Lucille

08-25-2012, 09:18 AM

Was The NYPD Responsible For 10 Of The 11 People Shot Yesterday?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/was-nypd-responsible-10-11-people-shot-yesterday

The official media-friendly narrative explaining yesterday's latest tragic shooting incident in midtown Manhattan in which a recently unemployed Jeffrey Johnson, 58, walked up to his former boss and shot him three times point blank before "calmly" walking away, is that Johnson also shot 9 other people, luckily none fatally, before being taken down by the NYPD. Sadly, as so often happens these days, the "media-friendly" narrative is wrong, and as CBS and Guardian report, Johnson did not fire during the quote unquote shootout, in which at least nine other perfectly innocent were hit, all of them by stray NYPD bullets.

From CBS: "Police said it is unlikely that Johnson fired during the shootout." Uhm, then isn't shootout a somewhat inaccurate word? "One witness told investigators that Johnson fired, but ballistics tests don’t back that up, authorities said... At least nine other people on the street were also shot, but Mayor Michael Bloomberg said it is unclear whether they were shot by the suspect or police. “Some may have been shot accidentally by police officers who responded immediately,” Bloomberg said." In other words of the (at least) 11 people shot yesterday, 2 of whom fatally, the NYPD was responsible for 10 of those shot, 9 of whom were literally "collateral damage" in a non-shoot out, and should be sacrificing various animals to their assorted guns that the NYPD, in missing their designated target, is at least quite atrocious in hitting any major organs. All of which of course begs the question: is a hit-to-miss (and potentially hit-to-casualty) ratio of less than 10% for New York's finest really acceptable and is this the kind of statistic that NY City wishes to boast in enticing new tourists?

...The two police officers discharged 14 rounds, killing Johnson outside the entrance to the Empire State Building. Kelly at first said Johnson fired on officers, but police later said they were trying to determine whether Johnson fired. "These officers ... had absolutely no choice," Kelly said. "This individual took a gun out very close to them and perhaps fired at them."

He didn't. Instead he was mowed down in a cannonade of fire by the NYPD which has shot at least 9 other perfectly innocent bystanders, of whom miraculously none were killed.

...Asika said Bloomberg visited him in hospital, but he received no apology from police.

That's explainable: the Mayor was likely distracted by his profound confusion how a deranged assassin with intent to kill was so blatantly unaware of New York City Administrative Code § 10-131 on the use of Firearms, which effectively makes any use or carrying of guns in the city of New York illegal.

madengr

08-25-2012, 09:22 AM

No, I can not watch videos where I am.

What am I missing?

The suspect was standing on the street, as if waiting for a bus with many people around. Cops approach him within 10 feet and he pulls his gun. Cops unload on him, with no concern of what is beyond the target, shooting many behind him.

pcosmar

08-25-2012, 09:26 AM

Expect this to play out many more times in the future.
In Fact,, I am sure that it has happened in several of the cases in the past,, just never reported as such.

As far as much of the Gang violence,,though stupid shit,, I think a lot is instigated by "Gang Units" of the police. Setting one against the other.
They are doing that in Mexico and only increasing the level of violence.

That could all be ended by ending the War on Drugs.

Anti Federalist

08-25-2012, 11:33 AM

The suspect was standing on the street, as if waiting for a bus with many people around. Cops approach him within 10 feet and he pulls his gun. Cops unload on him, with no concern of what is beyond the target, shooting many behind him.

Sweet Jesus...SMH.

Thanks for the update.

The Freethinker

08-25-2012, 12:26 PM

Sweet Jesus...SMH.

Thanks for the update.

It's confirmed that the several bystanders who were wounded by gunfire were struck by NYPD firepower. The news said that the two police officers who fired and killed the gunman had NEVER fired their pistols before (I assume not in the line of duty).

pcosmar

08-25-2012, 12:31 PM

It's confirmed that the several bystanders who were wounded by gunfire were struck by NYPD firepower. The news said that the two police officers who fired and killed the gunman had NEVER fired their pistols before (I assume not in the line of duty).

Trained professionals. @puke

aGameOfThrones

08-25-2012, 12:50 PM

mport1

08-25-2012, 12:56 PM

For once police actually respond to a real crime where there is a victim. However, they are so bad at their jobs that they made the situation worse. Apparently, the disgruntled employee only shot his former boss. He fired no other shots. The other 9 people were all injured by police bullets when they arrived at the scene and started firing wildly.

Of course, the police who handled the situation poorly will receive only praise and will not be held responsible for the damage they caused.

A private security agency would be held liable for such actions. They'd likely be trained better and act more cautiously knowing that they are actually responsible for their actions.

madengr

08-25-2012, 12:59 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

pcosmar

08-25-2012, 01:20 PM

A private security agency would be held liable for such actions. They'd likely be trained better and act more cautiously knowing that they are actually responsible for their actions.

A private security agency would have had no business being involved at all. (Private security has NOTHING to do with Law Enforcement)
This had nothing to do with private security. (unless they were the first victims bodyguards)

Anti Federalist

08-25-2012, 01:42 PM

NYC Police Commissioner on cops shooting nine people at Empire State Building:

“I believe it was handled well,” Kelly said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/video-shows-police-shooting-of-man-who-killed-former-colleague-outside-empire-state-building/2012/08/24/a90c30ce-ee4c-11e1-b624-99dee49d8d67_story.html

mport1

08-25-2012, 01:47 PM

A private security agency would have had no business being involved at all. (Private security has NOTHING to do with Law Enforcement)
This had nothing to do with private security. (unless they were the first victims bodyguards)

I'm talking about in an idea world where we do not have a government monopoly on policing services. Private agencies would handle these types of situations, and likely in a much better manner.

pcosmar

08-25-2012, 01:52 PM

I'm talking about in an idea world where we do not have a government monopoly on policing services. Private agencies would handle these types of situations, and likely in a much better manner.
NO They would not, That has been done.
Much of present day "policing" is designed on the Pinkerton Model.
Horrible Idea.

And yes,,we need to get Government out of it as well as "law making".
Put Law Enforcement back into the hands of people where it belongs.

http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

pcosmar

08-25-2012, 01:55 PM

“I believe it was handled well,” Kelly said.

Which part?
The shooting of innocent unarmed people,, or the whitewashing of the shooting of innocent unarmed people?

Anti Federalist

08-25-2012, 02:10 PM

Which part?
The shooting of innocent unarmed people,, or the whitewashing of the shooting of innocent unarmed people?

If we had anything resembling a free press anymore, somebody would have the guts to ask that question.

Thor

08-25-2012, 02:50 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

In light of this, Bloomberg should make an announcement that for the safety of all the citizens of NYC, cops will no longer have guns as they obviously do not know how to use them.

pcosmar

08-25-2012, 03:19 PM

In light of this, Bloomberg should make an announcement that for the safety of all the citizens of NYC, cops will no longer have guns as they obviously do not know how to use them.
he promised to remove the police before.. he reneged on that promise.

John F Kennedy III

08-25-2012, 06:20 PM

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/579894_433361586706183_29968675_n.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02_orC5-LbY&feature=share

osan

08-25-2012, 08:50 PM

He was sequestered and programmed in Bloomberg's basement before they set him on his mission.

Sadly, your apparent humor sounds less the product of psychosis with each passing day.

I wonder whether we would have these clusterings of similar events were there no mass media as we now have.

What a world.

jclay2

08-25-2012, 09:40 PM

ok, don't know if this was posted, but it now has been confirmed that 10/11 (not 9) people shot at the empire state building were in fact shot by the nypd.

osan

08-25-2012, 09:42 PM

NO They would not, That has been done.
Much of present day "policing" is designed on the Pinkerton Model.
Horrible Idea.

And yes,,we need to get Government out of it as well as "law making".
Put Law Enforcement back into the hands of people where it belongs.

http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

I may diverge with you some on that last bit. We need to dispense with the notion of LAW ENFORCEMENT altogether and get back to the idea of keeping the peace. Cops used to be called "peace officers". This is fundamentally different from law enforcement, both conceptually and in terms of psychology.

We humans are pretty well hard-wired for peaceable living very much in preference to that of violence. This is the case for eminently discernible and strongly logical reasons that have to do with basic survival of the human meat. For example: the design of teeth in many creatures follow a very impressively reasoned structure such that the envelope of "proper" behavior is made genetically manifest in their composition and function. I believe the same can be said for the fundamental preferences of our midbrain wiring because way back when there was no medical technology. Injuries we today consider "trivial" were once imminently life-threatening. Things as seemingly innocent as pricking one's finger on a rose bush can readily result in fatal infections and so we are wired to be CAREFUL and to be PEACEFUL.

My point in this is that because of this wiring, humans are well tuned to the virtues of peaceful coexistence and know that it is a fundamental "good" for one and all that cannot be attributed to arbitrariness or capricious fad. It is fundamental and it is IMMUTABLY RIGHT. It is, therefore, EVERYONE'S right and responsibility to "enforce" that state of being with unwaivering faith, diligence, and sternness, whereas "law enforcement" is precisely the opposite. It is almost invariably the expression of the tyrant's caprice and temporal political fashion. Law enforcement as concept, much less practice, should be excised from acceptability with unrelenting vehemence and should earned not just our unbridled enmity, but outright hatred. It is to be feared and acted against at all times by all rational and decent people. It is one of the very few things for which I would judge "zero-tolerance" as being not only appropriate, but utterly mandatory at all times and for all reasons.

Law enforcement as a concept is wildly insane and evil on its face and must never be tolerated.

That said, we have a steep and daunting climb ahead of us.

pcosmar

08-25-2012, 10:17 PM

That said, we have a steep and daunting climb ahead of us.

Not even sure if it is even possible,, in the present reality. But it is an Ideal I reach for.
Perhaps in another age.

osan

08-25-2012, 11:15 PM

ok, don't know if this was posted, but it now has been confirmed that 10/11 (not 9) people shot at the empire state building were in fact shot by the nypd.

Confirmed by whom? A cite would be nice. Is this being reported in the MSM?

osan

08-26-2012, 05:14 AM

i agree on the gan ban in NY

Then you are no friend of freedom. The 1913 Sullivan Law violates the right of every citizen to defend himself, others, and property against the predations of criminals because it violates the right to a legitimate means of exercise. If you do not see and clearly understand this, then you are either ignorant and need to do some study or you are a corrupt troll and need to be ignored as you are in fact part of the problem and an ally of the tyrant.

too high a population density

Says who? You? What is the cutoff point in terms of density measure such that when the rate jumps by a value of one unit or less that what we magically shift from "GO" to "NOGO"? Who determines it? What is the standard of determination and who gets to make it? Why is their authority to do so greater than, say, mine? Whence their authority to abridge and violate the fundamental rights of others without consent?

These questions are NOT rhetorical. If you fail to answer them convincingly, you are not qualified to express your opinion on this matter and should keep your tongue if for no other reason than anyone with nominal intelligence and decency would recognize the large cause for crimson-faced embarrassment at having uttered such spike-ignorant drivel as this. But let me not pre-judge; take your best shot and prove me wrong in my assessment of your knowledge and character and my acknowledgment will be forthcoming. I am nothing if not fair-minded and just.

stray bullets can kill innocent people even if the shooter uses a gun in self defense

That fact does not oblige one to become easy fodder for the criminal. Stray buses and automobiles have also been known to kill innocent people. A crane once fell on a Danish woman in the City - perhaps we need to ban cranes. People have been killed by panes falling from tall buildings. Ban windows? A steam explosion in one of the WTC towers in 1973 killed off an entire office - let us ban steam lines. Electricity is also dangerous. Ban it. People have fallen from high places. Ban heights.

Better idea: living is dangerous. Ban it.

osan

08-26-2012, 05:32 AM

No, I can not watch videos where I am.

What am I missing?
Not much. The quality is crap and no audio, but it appears the "gunman" did not fire at police, but did train his weapon on them. The doofy bastards seem to be pointing their weapons in directions widely varying from that of the "shooter". I cannot tell much of anything valuable from that blurry mess.

But if the reports are correct that he had a single stack weapon, put five in his intended target and left two in, meaning no other shots fired, then there really is not much to say except NYC police should be IMMEDIATELY disarmed. Every damned last one of them because the range was no more than three to four yards. If those inept buffoons could not hit a man-sized target at that range, they need to be retired. Permanently, if necessary, because they pose clear and present dangers to everyone around them.

With few exceptions, cops are the worst marksmen and the most inept handlers of firearms I have ever seen. Statistically speaking, if ANYONE should be disarmed it is police.

We live on planet Bizarro.

osan

08-26-2012, 05:37 AM

Who were they shooting at? IS the guy that drops the shooter? If so, the cop in the foreground is damn lucky he didn't get shot, he is shooting in the complete opposite direction his partner was shooting, his partner was the one that dropped the guy who falls.

They seemed confused as to who they were looking for/shooting at.

Very strange.

Strange? You are apparently not a New Yorker. As a native of that rat-infested dump I can assure you there is nothing "strange" about it in NYC reality. Oh yes, in the normal world it is certainly strange, but on Bizarro this sort of thing is pretty much considered normal.

New York City... same planet, different world.

osan

08-26-2012, 05:50 AM

NYC Police Commissioner on cops shooting nine people at Empire State Building:

“I believe it was handled well,” Kelly said.

To characterize Kelly as "despicable" would elevate him infinitely above his true status. There are no words low and vile enough to describe that rat bastard.

I would not return to live in NYC for any money. When I lived there I carried illegally daily as I was not about to surrender life or limb to anyone.

Screw NYC and screw the Sullivan law. I openly encourage all New Yorkers to carry guns. ALL of them.

UtahApocalypse

08-26-2012, 06:37 AM

When will the cops be charged?

phill4paul

08-26-2012, 06:54 AM

When will the cops receive their commendations?

FTFY

Henry Rogue

08-26-2012, 05:08 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CJp9BPHMOo&feature=player_detailpage
This 71 year old man shot 2 bad guys without hitting any innocent bystanders. Tell me why do we need LE, when citizens do a better job?

Bruno

08-26-2012, 05:11 PM

It's a good thing police were there to protect innocent bystanders from being shot...oh, wait...

madengr

08-26-2012, 05:27 PM

Yeah, that's a great video. He assessed the situation and waited for a clean shot, shot enough to stop the threat, then had is finger off the trigger at the end.

LibertyRevolution

08-26-2012, 07:28 PM

Confirmed by whom? A cite would be nice. Is this being reported in the MSM?

ALL the bystanders were shot by cops:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

The victim, the coworker, was hit with 5 head shots from the shooter.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/26/us/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

tangent4ronpaul

08-27-2012, 04:11 PM

ALL the bystanders were shot by cops:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

The victim, the coworker, was hit with 5 head shots from the shooter.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/26/us/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Funny how the numbers keep changing. This one says cops fired 14 times and shooter fired 3 times at victim, not 5 like above claims.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48782737/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.UDvrDaPud8E

anyway, 2 dead (victim and shooter) and 9 wounded. at least some, if not all had to be shot by the cops - of those wounded.

-t